After smuggly announcing in a thread last year I had tightened loose counter weights and replaced my door seal on my 6 year old,well known branded washing machine which returned it to perfect running order, Thursday it threw up a fault code which indicated the element had gone west.
So it was time to bite the bullet and replace. Mrs FC did the honours and today a replacement arrived from Currys which to all intents and purposes is the same one that bit the dust but with a bit of style change. £300 all in.
I duly set about instillation and peeled off a sticker which told me to ring an 0800 number and register for a FREE 5 year parts warranty. Now its the labour that is the killer but nothing to loose.
So when I registered I was informed that the 5 year parts warranty would apply provided the machine was repaired by specific XXXXXXXX repair staff and the minimum callout charge was £110. Yes £110.
Anyway then we went through the process of trying to sell me an extended warranty which I declined and then asked why. I retorted that if it was going to break down in four years they had better come and pick it back up. That shut him up.
£110 minim callout - free parts warranty - my harris!
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Let me guess - Hotpoint?
Our new gas cooker (Cannon, by Hotpoint) has the same deal. My mum has gone ahead with the offer though. Something like £4.91 over 12 months direct debit to get a 5yr parts and labour warranty. Our other gas cooker, the door seal perished and fell apart after 3 or 4 yrs. Something like £50 for a new one. If something goes wrong, then the warranty has paid for itself the 1st time it's used. If not, then £59 down the drain. We didn't pay the £80 installation fee though, so the money saved from that was put toward the warranty.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 18 Aug 12 at 15:33
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By and large two things can happen to an appliance;
It breaks because of a fault. 99% of the time it will do this within the first year. If it hasn't broken by then, it probably won't. And if it does break within 1 year they're getting it back to sort out anyway, add-on warranty/insurance or not.
Wear and tear; 3 or 4 years for a seal, an element after 6 years, that sort of thing.
Well what's a gas cooker, in perfect working order, worth after 4 years? Or a washing machine after 6? Would you really take out insurance to protect that?
I wouldn't touch one of these warranties with someone else's bargepole.
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Hotpoint had a deservedly poor reputation for quality and reliability.. I would not buy anything they made..
If a washing machine won't last 10 years without breakdown, it's rubbish. Ditto a fridge 15 years and a microwave more.
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>>If a washing machine won't last 10 years without breakdown, it's rubbish
Really? We had a washing machine break a while ago, as it happens I fixed it, but as it was 5 years old I felt it'd had given satisfactory service. Maybe I need to rethink my expectations.
As an aside;
In 1970 a Hotpoint washing machine was £131.29 in the Littlewoods catalogue.
At today's prices that's £1702.96.
Today a similar Hotpoint washing machine is £331.00
Better value than you may have thought.
By the way, if you're bored, this site is fun...
www.thecatalogshop.co.uk/catalogue-history/littlewoods-1970.php
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Let me guess - Hotpoint?
Right in one!
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>> Let me guess - Hotpoint?
>>
>> Right in one!
If the new gas cooker lasts as long as the old one did then we'll be happy. Somehow I don't think it will as the quality is flimsy in comparison.
Old one was a gas New World, which was 15 years old and unmarked (had to have 2 new door seals in its life though). Trouble was it started tripping the electric when the oven was used. I gave it the once over but couldn't find the fault. We made do a week or so until we got the new one delivered as we had the convection oven on the Panasonic Microwave combi to fall back on. By then the New World cooker started tripping the electric if the grill and any of the hotplate were used at the same time.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 18 Aug 12 at 17:41
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Our Hotpoint Ultima 6kg WMA76 is still going strong after nine years.
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Just before last Xmas brought a Zanussi gas cooker. Within a few months one of the support fingers on one of the pan stands broke. The welding was poor.
Contacted Zanussi to claim under one year warranty and was told it was cosmetic damage. The fact that it meant a pan would not sit correctly above one of the rings was not a safety issue as I pointed out.
Eventually had to buy a new pan stand as they would not listen and it had to be replaced.
Never would buy another after this.
Did also write and complain but heard nothing.
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I've got a Hoover washer / dryer which was bought over 25 years ago and has been repaired three times over the last 10 years, at a cost of between £50 - £60 each time.
As I've never had any problems with washing machines until they're around 8 years old, I wouldn't consider buying any form of extended warranty.
And as for a call out charge of £110!
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sat 18 Aug 12 at 16:50
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>> Just before last Xmas brought a Zanussi ...............
>> Never would buy another after this.
Our Zanussi TCE7227W tumble drier is still going strong after nine years.
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>>Our Zanussi TCE7227W tumble drier is still going strong after nine years<<
Ave vous tried cooking anything on it though?
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Hotpoint make rubbish washing machines. Their fridges are ok as far as I can tell.
Most modern appliances are cheap but rubbish quality. Even miele aren't that great now. My parent's one has needed repair at least once and it is younger than my zanussi washer. Their miele fridge has also been problematic with the thermostat going wrong. It's only a couple of years old. Meanwhile my hotpoint fridge is still going and theirs, which the miele replaced, must have done 15 years.
Reliability seems to have bombed since lead was removed from solder.
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Very old appliances are the way to go if you want reliability:
1935 New World gas cooker still works perfectly.
1940's Frigidaire
1954 Prestcold.
Unfortunately old washing machines are not automatics, and I don't think dishwashers existed in olden times.
But old kettles are good. The Russel Hobbs K2 lasts for ever.
I have two original first edition Kenwood mixers in good working order.
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"Hotpoint make rubbish washing machines. Their fridges are ok as far as I can tell."
But not their rubbish upright Future Freezer. -- one a bit wider than usual to compensate for the room lost due to the extra insulation with modern freezers.
In no time at all it needs a defrost. Several times a year. The freezer pipework is very close to the door at the top and it gets thick ice on it in just a few weeks even though I am careful how often I open the door and for how long. The ice has to be chipped off else it will hold the door open! Let alone obstructing the top drawer. It appears not to be a leaking seal.
The shop I bought it from, less than 12 months ago, has gone bust.
I have now covered the rounded outside end of the worst pipe with a plastic tube and that has helped. But I am still ice chipping once a week.
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Hotpoint is now Merloni(Indesit). The washers are probably better than they were.
For years the most common fault by far on a Hotpoint washer was worn out motor brushes. Guess what, very cheap part free under 5 year parts warranty, but labour chargeable. No other brand had any significant level of brush replacements in the first 5 years. Good wheeze you might think, but I couldnt possibly say that.
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...Good wheeze you might think, but I couldnt possibly say that...
Unlikely a brand would deliberately trash its reputation to charge a few hours on scabby brushes.
Particularly as one might think most of the money would go to pay the wages of the engineer.
But this is the internet, so the conspiracy theory must be the right one.
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Who said conspiracy? Sometimes things just turn out to be convenient and become part of the landscape. It was a long time ago.
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction. Who would have thought it credible that banks would fiddle LIBORs?
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In another thread I raised I discussed my 15 month old dishwasher packing up.
Just be warned that Curry's will not touch it when its 12 months and 1 day old irrespective of SOGA. Despite numerous attempts they were adamant that they only way they would look at it was if I paid their £119 call out charge. I raised SOGA with them, and still they wouldn't budge as it had lasted more than 12 months
I then got in contact with Beco who offered free parts readily, and then after a bit more pushing agreed to a FOC repair, however they went to great lengths to tell me it was good will and that they had no obligation to help as my contract was with the retailer. They agreed that Currys really should have been dealing with this FOC, but that they couldn't make them.
Firs time I have bought from Currys in 10 years, and the last for a good site longer - back to JL for me
The washing machine I bought last year from JL was somewhere between 350 and 400 quid - cant remember the exact price - came with a 5 year warranty which included accidental damage
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Small Claims Court route....Curry's are a heap of crap. When we were looking for a freezer, they had a marked one in stock...wouldn't shift on the sticker price. Ordered the same model from the Co-oP, cheaper. When it arrived it had a dent in the door. A phone call secured a 20% discount sight unseen. If people dealt with companies on CS alone dumps like Currys would crash and burn. John Lewis have the CS thing to a tee as well.
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>> Small Claims Court route....Curry's are a heap of crap. When we were looking for a
>> freezer, they had a marked one in stock...wouldn't shift on the sticker price. Ordered the
>> same model from the Co-oP, cheaper. When it arrived it had a dent in the
>> door. A phone call secured a 20% discount sight unseen. If people dealt with companies
>> on CS alone dumps like Currys would crash and burn. John Lewis have the CS
>> thing to a tee as well.
>>
DSG group are on the ropes anyway - wouldn't be surprised to see the disappear in the next two years......... that's if Comet dont beat them
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>> DSG group are on the ropes anyway - wouldn't be surprised to see the disappear
>> in the next two years......... that's if Comet dont beat them
>>
I'm waiting for their fire sale to buy a Humax Foxsat box, a new vacuum cleaner, a smart TV and a new wireless printer!
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>>
>>
>> DSG group are on the ropes anyway - wouldn't be surprised to see the disappear
>> in the next two years......... that's if Comet dont beat them
>>
I hope they do. Their attitude to customer service is disgusting. You shouldn't have to fight for a free repair on any appliance under 2 years old within the EU anyway.
Comet are another poor bunch.
I also found out that DSG own pixmania. They're another poor lot for customer care.
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>> Ordered the
>> same model from the Co-oP, cheaper.
Plus divi points no doubt.
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>> Small Claims Court route....Curry's are a heap of crap. When we were looking for a
>> freezer, they had a marked one in stock...wouldn't shift on the sticker price.
Has the naming and shaming policy been suspended? (fact heavy OK, judgment heavy or abusive not OK).
Refusing to discount a damaged display (presumably) item is understandable until it is end of line.
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See updated terms and conditions re: name and shame. Only a muppet would pay full price for something that was damaged.
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>> See updated terms and conditions re: name and shame. Only a muppet would pay full
>> price for something that was damaged.
>>
I have, unless you've just updated them.
I agree, only a muppet etc. And you didn't buy it so you're not a muppet. But it makes no sense to discount a display item unless it's clearance. You won't sell any more until you replace the display one, and eventually you'll have to discount that when it's end of line.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 19 Aug 12 at 19:03
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Can sort of see Manatee's point but if the display item (motoring link - think demonstrator) is sub standard then it reflects on product generally. Better to get rid at discount then have customers see W&T effects as representing brand.
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...as my contract was with the retailer...
That was always my understanding, but the likes of Currys are good at fobbing off the customer by telling him to go to the manufacturer.
I had something similar with Saveonlaptops when the Asus netbook conked out.
Saveonlaptops argument was the netbook was supplied direct from the manufacturer and it was the manufacturer who guaranteed it.
Good thing we don't have the same with cars, or I'd be driving the CC3 to Belgium, or Italy if the roof played up.
Last edited by: Iffy on Sun 19 Aug 12 at 12:25
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Washing machines, fridges, freezers, TVs are cheap as chips now!
1972 My Take Home Pay as a teacher of 5 yrs was £96 / MONTH
Fridge was £80, Freezer was £100, Washing Machine was £100, Colour TV 22" was £300
All bought to furnish beand new house.
1991 My THP was about £600 / week (good money then!)
28" Panasonic was £900, Fridge & Freezer (Twins) £600, Washing Machine £250
2012
Just Replaced TV (Sony), Fridge & Freezer (Samsung Twins), Washing Machine (Candy).........£1800 - about 80 hours tutoring (less the tax) - so about 2 working weeks.
In 1972 it was nigh on 6 months THP!
I buy, never insure and junk when it goes wrong but usually Fridge last 20 yrs, washing machine 10+ yrs, TV when I get tired of it!
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I know it falls in the face of rampant consumerism but I would like to spend my disposable income on other things other than constantly replacing items which should last a while. The technology is available to produce quality long lasting products at an affordable price. I know we can choose the top end appliances like Miele and Siemens but at the end of the day they do exactly the same thing for more than double the money. We have been drawn into accepting that if we have had say 5 years from a washing machine then we have had a good innings. We offset against outrageous repair costs which push us towards replacement.
As the years move on and our disposable income decreases (particularly after retirement) our ability to throw money at these items decreases. Disposable income is also reducing because everyone is wanting a bigger slice.
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As they say "you pays your money and you takes your choice'' . Quality and long life or acceptable quality and shorter life. You are always going to pay more for the former. You get the choice - that's what a market provides.
Having said that most modern appliances give a reasonable life if looked after. Some items like washing machines live a hard life but I've never had one that didn't last seven or eight years. People always say thing aren't made like they used to be but that just nostalgia. By and large the modern products are much superior to the stuff that was available 30 years ago. I'm sure someone will contradict me and say that their 30 year old washing machine is still going but I would ask "what happened to the the other 5 million they made?"
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As that bloke from Norwich (lets hope he doesnt watch football) says; The reason that the top end appliances cost more, is that they charge you for ensuring better quality. At least in principle.
And for what they are, they are very cheap.
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Possibly. I suspect Hughton was not the right choice.
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Indeed 'you pays your money you take your choice'. My argument would be that there are only a few 'critical' components in a washing machine which cause the majority of breakdowns therefore to upgrade those would not be overly expensive. I would guess that the marketeers at the upper end manufacturers will have calculated that say 25% of the market can and will pay for a 'superior' item which will last whether that price differential reflects the difference in the critical components I doubt.
If you compare to the car industry, the likes of Kia and Hyundai have warranted there products for longer than many of the manufacturers who are perceived to produce better quality products. Now are their component more rugged in the critical areas??
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 19 Aug 12 at 23:38
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>> the likes of Kia and Hyundai have warranted there products for longer than many of the manufacturers
In fact they offer longer warranties exactly because there was speculation about their quality. The argument being "why are you concerned about our quality, when the long warranty protects you anyway".
Manufacturers in some areas will in fact offer longer/better warranties because it may be cheaper than building to higher quality.
Arguably you need better warranties on poorer products, rather than the other way around.
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Apologies for mentioning motoring in a non-motoring area but if say a Dacia get you from A-to-B then why buy a Bentley? And if the Dacia last only 12 months, lots of cash left for a replacement.
Fill in your own examples. Replace Bentley with Mercedes, BMW or Audi if you like.
Turn this back to non-motoring and stray on computing. In 1993 I bought a PC. It was a 486SX (note the SX) 33MHz with 8MB RAM (I doubled it for a premium from the 4MB) and I think a 340MB drive and 15" CRT monitor (capable of decent resolution and refresh at the time)... it cost about £1300! Expensive for a modern PC now! I was a student and it came in handy and was worth the purchase.
Roll the clock forward and a better (laptop) computer is a fraction of that PC! Even an Apple laptop or desktop - in real terms an iMac is cheap compared to that.* And don't forget the PC had no sound card or CD drive back then. Installing Linux on it was fun via floppy I can tell you.
So back to washing machines. In todays terms we get what we pay for. I'd pay more if I knew it was better quality. And as we don't know then I'd rather not pay a premium.
* And the Apple store near the university I was at had the Apple luggable when I was there. It was big, heavy and costly! And had a lead acid battery.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_Portable
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 19 Aug 12 at 23:52
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>>then I'd rather not pay a premium
I tend to agree. Even rubbish is pretty good these days.
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>> As they say "you pays your money and you takes your choice'' . Quality and
>> long life or acceptable quality and shorter life. You are always going to pay more
>> for the former. You get the choice - that's what a market provides.
>>
In principle I agree, the trouble is it's often difficult to tell the difference between good quality and merely expensive. Past track record isn't much use either, just because brand X made good washing machines 10 years ago doesn't mean that machines they're making now will last 10 years. The pressure to cost reduce is always there in just about every manufacturing company.
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I've said this on here before.... sometime ago (probably 7+ years?) we bought a Siemens dishwasher and it was well made. Metal parts in side and it came with a free 5 year warranty. I'd also been looking at a Bosch (I know they are the same make) and it was equally well made but was the same price and didn't come with the 5 year warranty.
A few years later (probably 3 or 4 years ago) I was looking at a dishwasher for our son. Bosch's all made to a price with a lot of plastic inside. I cannot say they wouldn't last but wouldn't expect them to be so well made then. But the price was about the same so cheaper in real terms - so something has to give.
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Washing Machine - Rip Off - VxFan
