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Continuing discussion
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Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 11 Sep 12 at 14:01
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I've just read a piece in the Grauniad saying G4S is to donate 2.5 million pounds to the Armed Forces for welfare purposes, as a 'thank you' for helping out.
Only a firm like G4S could compound the balls-up it made by trying to put a price on it's incompetence.
Or am I being a little harsh?
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>> Or am I being a little harsh?
>>
Yes. G4S were under no obligation to make a donation to the Armed Forces.
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>>
>> Yes. G4S were under no obligation to make a donation to the Armed Forces.
>>
I wasn't aware that they had?
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>> I wasn't aware that they had?
Not sure whether you didn't read Mike's post from 10:52, or are referring to L'es's use of past tense to describe something that hasn't happened yet (possible interpretation)?
Last edited by: Focus on Mon 13 Aug 12 at 11:56
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>> >> I wasn't aware that they had?
>>
>> Not sure whether you didn't read Mike's post from 10:52,
Yep it was that one ! :-)
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>> Yep it was that one ! :-)
:)
Full story: www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2012/aug/13/london-2012-g4s-donate-2-million
Last edited by: Focus on Mon 13 Aug 12 at 12:39
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>> >> I wasn't aware that they had?
>>
>> Not sure whether you didn't read Mike's post from 10:52, or are referring to L'es's
>> use of past tense to describe something that hasn't happened yet (possible interpretation)?
>>
The BBC uses past tense:
"Private security firm G4S has donated £2.5m to the armed forces after troops had to stand in for its absent staff at the Olympic Games."
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19240654
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>>Yes. G4S were under no obligation to make a donation to the Armed Forces.<<
They were under no obligation to cock up what they were entrusted with at huge expense either.
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>>Only a firm like G4S could compound the balls-up it made by trying to put a price on it's
>>incompetence.
They screwed up, no doubt about it. Given that, would you have been happier if they had done nothing and given nothing rather than "trying to put a price"?
>>Or am I being a little harsh?
I believe the word you're looking for is "ridiculous".
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I don't know how accurate these figures are. The views expressed probably differ from the majority of forum members, but here goes!
tinyurl.com/bskqnm7
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So the whole party cost us as a nation something like £150 a head.
That's pretty much proportionate to the cost of a £20,000 wedding (see previous posts).
I suppose £150 per head was good value. What would each and every Brit have spent his/her 150 quid on otherwise ?
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>>What would each and every Brit have spent his/her 150 quid on otherwise ?
It would still have been spent by the government.
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A household that actually pays its way and a decent amount of income tax will have paid considerably more than the £400 per taxpayer or £150 per nob bandied about. Anybody who has paid a fair whack of tax over the last 5 years has paid their own and a few other people's shares.
The so-much-per-household spin ignores the fact that a lot of the 30,000,000 income tax payers pay very little, and households on benefits are largely unaffected.
I have seen nothing to change my mind, much as I would have liked to have been wrong, but I thought from the beginning that hosting the Olympics was a vanity project and a gravy train funded by the taxpayer who could have had just as much fun watching the Olympics had they been in Paris. That was before an economic disaster took hold and we hadn't a pot to pee in.
The poor devils who actually bought tickets have been mugged twice.
I know I sound like a curmudgeon, but I really don't think I am. I just give a damn and wouldn't trust the people who forecast £2bn cost and admit to £9bn (a figure that I don't for one second believe) to wash my car.
Thankfully it's over and we can stop pretending the Emperor ever had any clothes. It was just expensive telly ;-)
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We're all taxpayers Manatee. It's in the nature of an income tax that those with more income pay more. Households on benefits still pay VAT and other duties if they dare to smoke or drink. Indeed, the rise in VAT will hit then hard as will further changes to Council Tax Benefit currently in course.
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>> I suppose £150 per head was good value. What would each and every Brit have
>> spent his/her 150 quid on otherwise ?
>>
£100 to pay off my credit card bill and £50 towards new carpets in the lounge.
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Just one minor criticism before this thread dies until 2016,
After spending all those pennies building the places and all the work on the "ceremonies", why couldn`t they spend just a little bit more and install some sort of "forced-Air" system into the flag-poles at the medal ceremonies? It didn`t look right hoisting the flags up, just for them to hang sad and limp at the pole-top! - they should have been flying!
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But still bronze one left in the box.
I was at Wembley for the football final and it was noted that one Korean was not on the podium.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-19234407
Plus wingeing .....
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-19240353
Last edited by: henry k on Mon 13 Aug 12 at 21:01
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I thought that I was the ultimate cynic regarding the Olympic games; every time the torch came on the local news, I would launch into another tirade. It didn’t help when I learned from a local policeman that he and seven others had been taken 50 miles by taxi to shadow the torch procession at a discrete distance – they spent the whole day in full riot gear in the back of a large unmarked van. I just wonder if all these ‘local costs’ have been included in the ‘big’ bill, or whether they are sundry additions to be found from council taxes.
HOWEVER, a mate found himself with 2 spare tickets for the women’s mountain bike event at Hadleigh Farm on Saturday so I swallowed my cynicism and Mrs Haywain and I joined in the merriment. The whole thing seemed exceptionally well organized; a vast fleet of double decker buses took spectators from the car park to the circuit – OK, so our driver lost her way, but I forgive her. The circuit was superbly laid out with plenty of viewing points for spectators and, fortunately, the weather was sunny and warm. Some of the sections looked impossibly difficult for the riders and reports afterwards suggested that it was, indeed, a particularly tricky course.
In order to allow the crowds time to disperse after the event, we had a walk round the circuit and picnicked on the remains of our sandwiches. This was washed down with a decent cup of hot tea bought for a surprisingly reasonable price from a bevy of sweet young things in a catering van. The return trip was pleasant, and queue and hastle-free.
Was it worth going – you bet! Am I inspired to attempt this sort of thing on my Specialized Crosstrail? Well, fortunately, I have the excuse that I’m too old!
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at my local bib n tucker hire shop in Surbiton.
Now I need the tee shirt?
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2180348/Olympic-Merchandise-2012-Clothing-stores-novel-attempt-tries-round-strict-merchandising-rules.html
A supporter of Mr Holt said on Twitter: “Getting around the Olympic brand police at the expense of the pedants. Shop in Surbiton."
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I would have thought the name "Olympic" was owned by the Cunard White Star steamship company.
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edit -Erm, should have googled first! they merged in 1934!!
Last edited by: devonite on Tue 14 Aug 12 at 10:14
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...based on GDP - puts us down to 4th:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19249898
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Actually I can see that's based on total medal count, in which we were already 4th; only 3rd if based on golds.
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From the BBC Website concerning George Michael;
"George Michael has declared he has no regrets about performing his new single at the London 2012 closing ceremony.
His performance of White Light led some to accuse him of using Sunday night's event to promote his new material."
I thought he did exploit it rather. It didn't affect my enjoyment, and its up to him and the organisers. However. first he declared his intended performance on Twitter because even though he agreed to keep it secret he thought the public "deserved to know"; and then used the performance to publicise a single about to be released.
Its his choice, but he should be honest about it. And be prepared to be judged by his behaviour.
It wouldn't bother me in the least if he didnt then try to maintain it was entirely altruistic behaviour to support and thank his fans.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Aug 12 at 20:58
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I noticed the old boy had a tiny bit of bother getting up from one knee at the end.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Aug 12 at 20:58
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He should have finished his act by disappearing into a cottage.
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He only agreed to do the closing ceremony because he heard 5 big rings were on display.
Liam Gallagher, Russell Brand, George Michael, Kate Moss, Naomi Campbell ... it's a good job they didn't carry out drug tests for the closing ceremony.
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>> I noticed the old boy had a tiny bit of bother getting up from one knee at the end.
I thought Macca wasn't there?
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That is a bit naughty IMO - I didn't realise at the time it was a new single, I'd assumed it was just one of the mediocre ones he's been releasing recently which I'd missed.
It might have been his choice, but if I was the director, I wouldn't have allowed it! Or perhaps I would, as long as he performed 'wake me up before you go-go' as the 1st track :)
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Aug 12 at 20:59
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>> From the BBC Website concerning George Michael;
www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19259865
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 14 Aug 12 at 20:59
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A colleague put me on to this the other day. You can bid for actual javelins and boxing gloves used in the Games, but I fancy a flag from the opening ceremony, and one of the 2m-tall Wenlock sculptures from the riverside trail. Not saying which one, though, even if I haven't got £4,000 spare to pay for it.
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Any M3 convertibles going, or even a 335i?
gotta be cheao though
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>> You can bid for actual javelins and boxing gloves used in the Games
Here I guess: memorabilia.london2012.com/allauction/auctionLanding
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Yes. One more thing.
Is boxing the only so-called "sport", where the object of the competition is to inflict physical harm to your opponent?
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Boxing is surely the ultimate sport. A man to man competition with a clearly defined winner who has to be supremely fit, strong and able to withstand pain and have the skill and tactics to win.
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Taekwondo (however it's spelt - I was hoping the iPhone would know - looks pretty brutal too.
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That's why Flint girls are particularly suited to that sport :-)
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>> Is boxing the only so-called "sport", where the object of the competition is to inflict
>> physical harm to your opponent?
In Olympic boxing, and possibly other forms (amateur?), the aim is to score points. Granted that involves hitting your opponent, but you don't get more points for hitting them harder. So you could argue that inflicting harm isn't the primary objective. Like judo, or wrestling, perhaps?
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Bump! .......for the Paralympics! - yet another "ambiguous" opening ceremony that I wouldn`t have understood if it wasn`t for the T.V commentator!
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I am now based at the paralympic village, really fabulous place with fabulous atmosphere. Got a heavy shift pattern, long days (12-15 hours) with one day off in 18. The atmosphere here tho has really cranked up and we are much more multifunctional in roles. On Wednesday night I was, for example seconded into the teams arranging the team transfers between village and opening ceremony.
The athletes are much more outgoing than the Olympics, and we get to meet and chat with them much more.
Hence the title.
The American team are delighted with the attention and crowds they are getting, and remark that as sportsmen they are much more appreciated here than at home in the US. The only mainstream TV coverage the US team will get at home is a 90 minute summary, broadcast after
the games.
US Newspaper coverage has the paralympics well down the bottom of the sports pages with little or no coverage.
Considering a significant proportion of the US athletes are veterans disabled in the US military, it seems to me, and them, that they are better off coming home in a body bag where at least they get a ceremony, folded flag, and a spot of grass at Arlington, rather than coming home minus a limb and being shunned. Prefer their heroes dead them Yanks,
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>> Considering a significant proportion of the US athletes are veterans disabled in the US military,
>> it seems to me, and them, that they are better off coming home in a
>> body bag where at least they get a ceremony, folded flag, and a spot of
>> grass at Arlington, rather than coming home minus a limb and being shunned. Prefer their
>> heroes dead them Yanks,
>>
Thanks for the vid, Zero!
Our local paralympians are front-page news at present. We're doing something right.
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I agree Z, wonderful atmosphere.
Was at the Velodrome yesterday after a wander round the village and agree with all comments I have heard about the whole village - spectacular - and the volunteers, all cheerful and full of joy. The only long queue was for the fish and chips - which smelt delicious - no queues for water, loos or ATM.
Was not sure about watching men cycling as a viewer, but it was incredible seeing the disabled achieving amazing racing.
Loved seeing the athletes mingling with the spectators.
Off to Greenwich tomorrow to see the dressage.
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The cyclist who got disquilified I felt sorry for.I thought the games was about fairness looks I was wrong.
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Put me off Focus people with handicaps have enough to live with.Rules are rules balks in my opinion.
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Sorry Dutchie didn't quite follow that.
I can understand him getting upset - haven't actually seen the incident in question, but from what I heard on the news he did have a point. And he did apologise for his behaviour later.
It's good to see someone passionate about their sport :)
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>> It's good to see someone passionate about their sport :)
I have the impression that the pressure to perform at the Olympic level absorbs years of people's lives and costs them untold physical effort and suffering. That's a bit more than being passionate.
'Four years of my life!' the poor geezer yelled among other things. We would all have wanted him to get a restart, but apparently the rules said no. Perhaps we forget that there are always medal hopefuls among the also-rans at the Olympics and Paralympics, that bitter disappointment is present as well as heady triumph.
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I haven't seen the incident.
However, the outcry wouyld have been no different if he had been given a restart. Except then it would have been "why do we have rules if the officials can....". etc. etc.
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He screwed up, he lost. Behave like that and you deserve a slap.
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I did see the incident and the aftermath.
I also saw the American being allowed a re-start shortly after from the same starting mechanism in the pursuit. He went on to win the Gold, sad for the Silver medallist (GBR) who had made an excellent start and most of a circuit with adrenalin up then had to sit and wait for the start to be re-arranged.
Most of the people around me were really surprised at how quickly the judge made his decision and that he did not refer to video. It looked very similar to the later problem, when a restart was allowed.
The strop was amazing - including dashing water bottles off a stand and some very ripe language and gestures directed at the officials and went on for a considerable time before he was persuaded down the ramp. Knowing someone who has done an Olympic campaign and knowing just how intense it was, taking over her whole life for years, I had every sympathy. The apology was brave and really well done. The crowd - booed frantically. Sadly it went on long enough to obliterate the announcement of medals, which I found sad for the medallists.
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They should have let him restart again Focus that is what I meant about the rules.He had every right to be upset.Sorry about me confusing you I confuse myself.>:)
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Why start again? it was his fault.
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I'm not sure if it was his fault Zero.I was thinking there might have been some lee way for disabiliy.There isn't.
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this is competitive stuff Dutchie, they wouldn't want any special favours or leeway, beyond that provided by the classifications for the sport. All the riders in that heat had the same disability classification.
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It is I agree very competitive still felt sorry for him.As soon as it happened he put a lot of presuure on his good leg.Never mind he won some medals and did well.
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Dutchie - don't worry, it doesn't take much to confuse me :)
I think if it was his fault, there's not much the officials could do. However I did see a discussion on the news (I think) where they were saying that it looked like the bike release mechanism had misbehaved. The officials looked at the mechanism and said it was ok, hence no restart, but they wouldn't look at the video replay of the start.
Only reporting what I heard.
Last edited by: Focus on Sat 1 Sep 12 at 19:18
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Not easy to watch people who have to battle with their physical problems.Still great athletes do.
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Lots of publicity about the top of the medal table but great to see that 65 countries have at least one medal.
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I am aiming to ambush him on his way from the village to the closing ceremony and grab a photo or his autograph. Or both.
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I don't believe in hero worship in general, but for this man I make a rare exception. His almost superhuman bounce back from his life changing accident is an object lesson in strength of character and optimism.
This sums up the man so well:
youtu.be/DgMz33lc7Dc
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And what an interview with him at Brands Hatch.
What an inspiring guy !
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not seen it, where did you find it?
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>> not seen it, where did you find it?
>>
Live on Channel 4 . I do hope they repeat it. Maybe later tonight ?
The sort of clip that needs to be captured and saved.
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>> >> not seen it, where did you find it?
>> >>
>> Live on Channel 4 . I do hope they repeat it. Maybe later tonight
I was hoping they would show the race live this afternoon, but it wasnt on.
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Channel 4 + 1, or is it too late?
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All I can find on the web:-
The story is an amazing one with Zanardi coming from near-death, after losing nearly three-quarters of his blood, to winning gold just 11 years later.
"This is a great accomplishment, one of the greatest of my life," Zanardi said.
"I worked very hard to get here. It was great to live such an experience at 45. This moment also brings a little bit of sadness for an adventure the last two years.
"When you are 20, you appreciate medals. When you are 40, you appreciate what you do every day.
"I enjoyed every day of training. I've had a magical adventure and this is a fantastic conclusion."
uk.reuters.com/article/2012/09/05/uk-paralympics-zanardi-idUKBRE88416P20120905
www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2198718/Alex-Zanardi-wins-gold--London-2012-Paralympics.html
Celebration!
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Hero. No other word does him justice.
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Every time I open the morning paper and see Ellie's smiley face, it cheers me up no end.
I was watching Danielle Brown a few nights ago winning a silver in China.....what a stunna, now she's got the gold in London. Shooting arrows sat on a bike saddle !
My admiration for all these kids has no bounds.
Ted
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Got in to see Australia vs Sweden in the wheelchair rugby, described as chess with violence. Entertaining to say the least, Australia had two two wheeled thugs who were fast and strong, tho often in the sin bin, and thrashed the Swedes.
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>> Got in to see Australia vs Sweden in the wheelchair rugby, described as chess with
>> violence. Entertaining to say the least, Australia had two two wheeled thugs who were fast
>> and strong, tho often in the sin bin, and thrashed the Swedes.
>>
Apparently, it's known as Murder Ball!
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I was at the wheelchair rugby on Wednesday and saw Australia v Canada and France v Japan. It was certainly action packed and reminded me a lot of Stock Car Racing.
Also got into Centre Court to see the wheelchair tennis. Sat in the front row in front of all the Team GB supporters and cheerleaders so the atmosphere was wonderful. Gordon Reid lost narrowly to the much older Dutch player.
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>> grab a photo or his autograph. Or both.
Mind what you say Zero. Alessandro Zanardi is, cough, Italian.
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Back in July, in Volume 3, I said I had been told the manufacturer's names were being ground off the manhole covers to avoid advertising.
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=11292&m=250702&v=e
This suggestion was met with some incredulity which I fully understood.
Having visited the Olympic Park this week I'm sorry to say I was right!
While there were plenty of covers with the names of utility companies on them, about a third of the covers have had names ground off and I could find none with the names of cover manufacturers.
Sorry but no photos as my companions gave me enough grief for just looking at them all day!
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I have a photo of one with the makers name on it if you need it.
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Thanks, but I have no need of a photo.
You can however have the virtual pint I offered for spotting the only one the contractor missed!
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I had a choice of many, this was was chosen however as it was the only one without feet tramping all over it.
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Tomorrow is "thank a games maker day" when they should be wearing a uniform if possible.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ckZ8x75PU&feature=youtu.be
I was one of the lucky ones, I got into venues, saw sports. Many of these guys never even got near a venue, the plum job tho was in what we called "the last mile" The foam fingered, wind the crowd up jokers.
So if you see a games maker tomorrow, give them a wave, a shout or a pat on the back for a job well done.
I am now off up to the village for my last shift, and a midnight finish. Tomorrow I will be in the mall for the athletes parade, then the uniform is put away for the last time (unless i get Alex Zanardi to sign my shirt tonight)
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 9 Sep 12 at 10:30
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Edit:
Went up last Saturday on the same train as some friends who were taking their kids to the games. At Canary Wharf station I tried to throw push kids out the tube door, (as a joke) and I was promptly booed and hissed by the rest of the passengers and instantly christened "The Evil Games maker"
I am so proud.
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If you can come up here, throw all these noisy Brats off something, I`ll give you an extra loud Boo and Hiss, then treat you to a pint!
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The family and I were there yesterday for the morning athletics. A truly wonderful day out. Walking up the steps and seeing the main stadium is an incredible experience and I'm glad our kids will have experienced it.
I admit to having a tear in my eye when the Algerian chap collected his bronze. He could barely walk in a straight line but looked so happy as he walked up when his name was called to collect his medal, he got a huge cheer. Clare Balding got a big cheer too and she was only presenting flowers to the winners!
Being there, seeing the architecture, feeling the atmosphere, the organisation and scale of the place has made me feel proud to be British once again.
We did in style it and showed the world too. What an achievement.
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>
>> (unless i get Alex Zanardi to sign my
Bad planning on my part meant i was seconded into helping the teams starting with S, and I ended up on the other side of the fence from the 'I's
Damn.
Still I got to eat in the Athletes dinning hall. Damn fine Halal curry.
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Didn't see all of it but what I did see was awesome. Coldplay just seemed so right for the occasion.
A fitting tribute not just to the end of the Paralympics but to the whole Olympic journey.
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I enjoyed the Olympics and its been a great party but I must admit to a slight feeling that it all went on a tad too long. Relieved that its all now over and we can get back to normal.
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The Olympics finished a few weeks ago. You must be referring to the Paralympics?
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The thought is that the Paralympics should be shifted to be before the Olympics.
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>> The thought is that the Paralympics should be shifted to be before the Olympics.
A bit late for that, I would have thought!
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>> The Olympics finished a few weeks ago. You must be referring to the Paralympics?
He did, its in his post.
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Yes i men the paralympics. There is also the problem of having the two events so close together. Might be better to have the paralympics in a different year to the olympics.
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The cost will be the main reason to have them together. The huge cost of the Olympics is found by the bidding nation and then the same venues are used. Often the venues will be changed to something else afterwards to recoup costs.
If the Paralympics didn't use the same venues then I doubt it would happen. The bidding process for the Olympics now include the Paralympics. I think originally the Paralympics was often in a different country with its own bidding process.
I wonder if the Olympics and Paralympics should be merged and then there's only one opening and closing ceremony too. Still have different events etc.
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Now it's back to wall-to-wall Association Football, unfortunately!
Mind you I did catch the Aviva Premier League RFU highlights last night!
Only an hour and it crammed in rather too many matches for a real appreciation of the sides' relative playing skills, as there was too much focus on scoring, both tries & penalties.
The "grind" is also entertaining to we old rugger players. :-)
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"Now it's back to wall-to-wall Association Football, unfortunately!"
Only if you have Sky. There is actually very little football on mainstream channels. Wish there was a bit more actually.
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>> Didn't see all of it but what I did see was awesome. Coldplay just seemed
>> so right for the occasion.
I didn't watch it because of Coldplay. I wonder if the suicide rate went up when they came on, they always sound so drear.
I'm with Mitch Benn: www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtfNI6P7zDo
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>> Didn't see all of it but what I did see was awesome.
I haven't seen all of the opening and closing ceremony of the other games yet.
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I caught bits of the athlete's parade. Thought Pet Shop Boys was a bit of a queer choice!
Did they give Zeddo and the volunteers a rousing reception they deserved? I'm an Olympics cynic, but I recognise the time they've put into it. He could've been away filming chuff-chuffs.
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The athletes did, we were a big bunch of gamesmakers at Ludgate Circus, ( I missed out on the ballot for a place in the mall) and all the athletes gave us a special thank you as they passed. We got to parade behind the last float all the way down fleet street, before we got kettled in the Aldwych. Fair do'os that - it was getting pretty crowded getting into trafalgar square.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 10 Sep 12 at 18:10
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.................and Boris stole the show of "Thank-you" speeches at the end!
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From order-order.com
The Free Thinking Lobby
First there was the man from the Sun:
PM avoids an Olympics parade crowd booing by walking on with Princess Anne and Boris – smart.—
Tom Newton Dunn (@tnewtondunn) September 10, 2012
Then the chairman of the Lobby:
V smart to have Boris as a human shield next to him for the Olympic/Paralympic tribute. Ensures no boos at all…—
Paul Waugh (@paulwaugh) September 10, 2012
And then the man from the Mirror:
Smart of Cameron to use Princess Anne & Boris Johnson as human shields at Olympics-Paralympics parade. Can't boo one and not the others—
Kevin Maguire (@Kevin_Maguire) September 10, 2012
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>> I caught bits of the athlete's parade. Thought Pet Shop Boys was a bit of
>> a queer choice!
Speaking as a person who dislikes modern pop, I must say the Pet Shop Boys offerings were not bad!
Quite catchy, in fact.
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>> Speaking as a person who dislikes modern pop, I must say the Pet Shop Boys offerings were not bad!
How are the Pet Shop Boys modern pop? They've been around for decades.
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WOOOOOO
Just seen me on the tele. If you watch the chris hoy interview on the float, there is a big Team GB flag being waved just behind him int he crowd - thats me.
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>> WOOOOOO
>>
>> Just seen me on the tele. If you watch the chris hoy interview on the
>> float, there is a big Team GB flag being waved just behind him int he
>> crowd - thats me.
WOOOOOO, and in the interview with the triathlon brothers.
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>there is a big Team GB flag being waved just behind him int he crowd - thats me.
We were watching that.
The TV went off and won't switch back on again.
Guess we'll have to leave it a few hours to recover.
Last edited by: Kevin on Mon 10 Sep 12 at 21:39
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>> >there is a big Team GB flag being waved just behind him int he crowd
>> - thats me.
>>
>> We were watching that.
>>
>> The TV went off and won't switch back on again.
That thing in the hall you have? with a slot and clock on the front? You need to put coins in it.
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>That thing in the hall you have? with a slot and clock on the front? You need to put coins in it.
Bypassed mate. This is Basingstoke.
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Well, that was the "summer of sport": now for the "winter of our discontent".
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The price of failure - Mike Hannon
