G4S, the huge security organisation has 'issues' with training enough staff to fill security jobs at the Olympics. An additional 3,500 troops are being brought in to fill security jobs at Olympic sites.
Link to BBC news item.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18806936
I wonder if my own experience is typical?
I applied for a job as a security steward with G4S at the Olympics. I was interviewed and tested at QPR's ground at Shepherd's Bush on May 1st. I was told that I had passed and given a letter confirming that. I was also told that G4S would contact my referees and do my CRB check, which would take 2 to 3 weeks.
Since then my referees and I have heard nothing. My status, according to the website is 'undergoing screening'.
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perhaps they have lost you as they do Prisoners.
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>> My status, according to the website is 'undergoing screening'.
Perhaps they think you have a murky or dubious background which warrants a deep and time-consuming investigation. Some people will be easier to clear than others.
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>> >> My status, according to the website is 'undergoing screening'.
The phrase is actually 'sent to screening'. My memory was slightly at fault.
>> Perhaps they think you have a murky or dubious background which warrants a deep and
>> time-consuming investigation. Some people will be easier to clear than others.>>
Tee hee! Fair judge, I reckon!
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Wouldn't it have made sense to use the military anyway, they get paid regardless and so long as an unexpected war didn't come along it seems that they'd have been free anyway!
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It would make sense but there aren't enough of them around as many of them are heavily involved in an ill-judged venture in Afghanistan!
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>> Perhaps they think you have a murky or dubious background which warrants a deep and
>> time-consuming investigation. Some people will be easier to clear than others.>>
I suppose that anybody just leaving prison after an extended stay is probably a safer bet than a random choice. After all they have not had the opportunity to have travelled to the midEast for training purposes :)
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A TV critic described the first episode of the final series of the superb "Twentytwelve" as disturbingly possible. Now this...
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>>>superb "Twentytwelve" as disturbingly possible.<<<
Having seen most of the earlier series, I think that perhaps they they should have used them as 'Training Films' for the ODA.
Like the 'The Office', most people will recognise cringeworthy elements of near reality to corporate life.
Last edited by: pmh on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 09:04
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Actually, to be fair, from first hand knowledge of Olympic Planning and being "in the system" so to speak, the planning and attention to detail has been superb. You can not imagine how big this whole thing is. Most of the "partners" (suppliers to you and me) have stepped up to the mark. One failure (albeit a pretty vital and public one) is not bad.
It is fairly easily rectified by LOCOG intervention with government (as LOCOG is effectively a quango) support.
As far as 2012 go's, yes its a superb parody, and boy does it reflect some parts of civil service (and corporate to an extent) planning bullshiesse.
In reality, although I can't deny there is an aura of that about the Olympic planning, there is also a huge swathe of pragmatism, a will and effort to "get it done" and some degree of ruthless bulldozing to anything that stands in the way.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 09:14
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It is likely that "screening" includes Criminal Record Checks at the CRB. Notorious for taking months to screen anyone: And a bulge of cases is likely to mean an even greater delay.
That's my guess for the main culprit.
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I'm surprised it's taken this long to hit the headlines. G4S have been poor throughout, they've had a long time to plan for this and haven't been able to come up with the numbers. We'll sort was there answer then they owned up and set they hadn't a chance of making the numbers. The initial plan was for just a few military in specialised roles (comms, eod, QRA at Northolt etc) then we had the big increase which was spun quite well and no-one was the wiser and now we have ended up checking tickets, directing crowds. Now we have this announcement, I can only hope they are being hammered contract penaltywise for not producing the manpower and they don't get another government contract for a long time to come.
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>> I'm surprised it's taken this long to hit the headlines. G4S have been poor throughout,
>> they've had a long time to plan for this and haven't been able to come
>> up with the numbers.
>>
" G4S ... they've had a long time to plan for this ".
No they haven't.
Locog originally contracted G4S to provide 2,000 security guards out of the 10,000 required. But when Locog re-estimated the total number needed to 23,700, G4S agreed to supply 10,000 personnel total out of 23,700.
As Duncan and madf have said, it is the CRB checks which are causing the hold up in recruitment.
"A duty manager contracted by G4S to work on the Olympic site told Channel 4 News that delays in training and vetting staff had resulted in the company being far behind schedule."
Last edited by: John H on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 10:22
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It was long enough, they thought it was as well. CRB may have been an issue, but a general lack of training and facilities and inability to organise them being the key ones.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 10:37
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>> >> I'm surprised it's taken this long to hit the headlines. G4S have been poor
>
>> "A duty manager contracted by G4S to work on the Olympic site told Channel 4
News that delays in training and vetting staff had resulted in the company being far
>> behind schedule."
Anyone can put spin on something.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 10:35
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>> News that delays in training and vetting staff had resulted in the company being far
>> >> behind schedule."
>>
>> Anyone can put spin on something.
>>
Big hole in your spinner.
Training can commence only after the staff have been recruited. Staff can only be recruited after the CRB certificate has been obtained.
Last edited by: John H on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 11:40
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Except of course you are wrong. Only event training and acceeditation needs to be done after crb checks. G4S has been doing the basic training before either.
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>> Except of course you are wrong. Only event training and acceeditation needs to be done
>> after crb checks. G4S has been doing the basic training before either.
>>
So why is Duncan waiting for his CRB check?
Perhaps you are wrong.
G4S is trying to recruit a huge number of people for a employment on a very short term at the Olympics. Recruit temporary staff too early, and you risk having to pay them for standing idle waiting for the Games and/or losing them to offers of permanent employment elsewhere. G4S thought they could get the numbers at the right time due to the large pool of jobseekers. Where G4S failed was to understand that the CRB regularly fails to deliver on time.
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Will you stop trying to lay the blame squarely elsewhere. G4S said they could do it. They can't, they have failed to deliver. Funny how CRB checks for 150 THOUSAND volunteers and other staff managed to go through with no problems.
As for Duncan, they have probably passed him over for whatever reason, they won't tell you unless you specifically find a way of asking them.
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 12:19
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>> Will you stop trying to lay the blame squarely elsewhere. G4S said they could do
>> it. They can't, they have failed to deliver. Funny how CRB checks for 150
>> THOUSAND volunteers and other staff managed to go through with no problems.
>>
>>
Big difference.
The 150 thousand are not security staff.
>> As for Duncan, they have probably passed him over for whatever reason, they won't tell
>> you unless you specifically find a way of asking them.
>>
But you said they don't wait for CRB. They clearly are for Duncan.
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Do stop spouting carp
The checks are the same.
As for Duncan, perhaps I should have rephrased the answer - He has probably been rejected.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 12:48
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>> As for Duncan, perhaps I should have rephrased the answer - He has probably been
>> rejected.
>>
Could be, of course.
However, I was told that I had passed the interviews and the various tests, I was given a letter telling me that I had passed and would be given employment subject to my passing the CRB check and getting references.
I did tell them that I had an enhanced CRB check in October 2009, but they wanted to do their own fresh CRB check.
Hey ho.
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>> I did tell them that I had an enhanced CRB check in October 2009, but
>> they wanted to do their own fresh CRB check.
Some bloke on the tele was saying the same thing, even told he had passed the CRB, and then nothing. Others are saying their records have been lost.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Jul 12 at 00:52
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>> Some bloke on the tele was saying the same thing, even told he had passed
>> the CRB, and then nothing. Others are saying their records have been lost.
>>
I looked at the forum on the G4S website this morning, in one thread there were over a hundred posts saying much the same.
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>> >> I'm surprised it's taken this long to hit the headlines. G4S have been poor
>> throughout,
>>But
>> when Locog re-estimated the total number needed to 23,700, G4S agreed to supply 10,000 personnel
Shouldn't offer what you cannot supply. If they'd stuck at the 2,000 (or maybe doubled it, instead of increasing five-fold) then they'd have been OK.
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>> Shouldn't offer what you cannot supply. If they'd stuck at the 2,000 (or maybe doubled
>> it, instead of increasing five-fold) then they'd have been OK.
>>
If CRB tell you it will take 2 to 3 weeks for a certificate, then take 6 months to do it, whose fault is it?
If CRB had told G4S that it would take that long, I feel sure no one would have tendered for the contract to provide security at the Olympics.
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'I feel sure no one would have..'
I wouldn't.
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>> 'I feel sure no one would have..'
>>
>> I wouldn't.
>>
wouldn't do what?
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They saw a chance to make some money and messing up, if you worked with them I'm sure you'd think less highly of them.
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I was parked outside a clothing store last week, when an "Armoured"? G4S van turned up to make a delivery/collection. I was strangely amazed to find that it was only manned by one person, who apparently donned his protective gear in the back of the van, entered and exited via the rear door, and on completion of the "job" stripped back to shirt-sleeves and drove off!
I thought there were usually three crew, one of which is actually locked in the rear of the van? and two cab crew?
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"I was parked outside a clothing store last week, when an "Armoured"? G4S van turned up to make a delivery/collection. I was strangely amazed to find that it was only manned by one person............"
He was probably just delivering some urgent underpants.
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>> They saw a chance to make some money and messing up, if you worked with
>> them I'm sure you'd think less highly of them.
>>
Sure I think more highly of the armchair experts here, G4S is nothing compared to them. ;-)
"With operations in more than 125 countries and 657,000 employees, .. " with an annual turnover of "£7.5 billion".
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I've worked with them and have done plenty of security physical or otherwise but yeah what do I know because big companies never mess up, they can't possible they employ lots of people don't you know...
Last edited by: sooty123 on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 12:30
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>> "With operations in more than 125 countries and 657,000 employees, .. " with an
>> annual turnover of "£7.5 billion".
Clearly then they would have made an assessment of possible (likely) delays to CRB checking due to the size of the project and factored that into deciding the number of staff they could have supplied, being such a large experienced company,
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>> If CRB had told G4S that it would take that long, I feel sure no
>> one would have tendered for the contract to provide security at the Olympics.
Mrs B has enough CRB certificates to paper a small room. They've all come back inside a couple of weeks. Whether there's any difference for checks made through Disclosure Scotland I don't know.
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>> Mrs B has enough CRB certificates to paper a small room. They've all come back
>> inside a couple of weeks. Whether there's any difference for checks made through Disclosure Scotland
>> I don't know.
>>
Repeat ones are quicker. It is the first one which can take time, especially for a high profile event such as the Olympics. CRB will be taking extreme care not to slip up.
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Repeats ones are NOT quicker, its the same check.
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Step-son did some security type training at the start of the year and applied for a security position. He got interviewed etc and then got some training in Manchester. And then without much notice he was asked to come down to London last week and he's been there pretty much since.
He said he's been asked to start early because not all can start at such short notice etc. And then you hear about it in the news. He's quite lucky because I think he'll get about £10/hour, gets free food and accommodation and travel is included too. And he gets to be at some of the olympic events (not really watching it) and earn money at the same time. Apparently they might be put up on the QE2 from next week... better than the soldiers can expect!
It's madness that there's a lot of people wanting to do this and there's been plenty of time to sort it. And yet they haven't. I suppose it's better than LOGOC admitting they haven't finished building venues on time.
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I had heard that many were discouraged by low wages and the short duration of the job. However the wage your son is getting and the fringe benefits seem fair. I foresee some logistic problems if they sleep on the QE2 as it is in Dubai being fitted out as a hotel! You probably mean another one?
news.yahoo.com/liner-qe2-host-visitors-again-hotel-dubai-094528284--finance.html
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I just repeated what he said about the QE2 without thinking about it. I assume it must be another ship they intend using. He's also going to benefit from being a student and so his tax free allowance for the year means he won't be paying tax either.
As a job in London the pay is poor. As a temporary job with food, travel and accommodation provided then it's not so bad. And he gets to be part of the olympics.
EDIT: I wonder if it's something to do with the conference centre and he's assumed it's the ship :-)
Last edited by: rtj70 on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 15:39
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G4S - "With 657,000 employees .... an annual turnover of "£7.5 billion".
Obviously not as good as the NHS with 1.7m employees (soon to be less) and a budget of £70bn+....
;-)
(I presume some of G4S's employees are paid in magic beans in other countries as their turnover seems to be around £11k per employee per annum).
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I remember dealing with this lot when they were known as Group 4.
I clearly remember their area manager being summoned to see the very angry Dealer Principal of the Ford dealer I worked at, to explain just how their (expensive) regular night time patrols of our forecourt could completely miss a gang of masked men breaking into four Mondeos, pushing each of them 100 yds out into the service road, then breaking into and driving away the Escort and Sierra Cosworths which the Mondeos had blocked in, all of which they managed to do without being spotted, let alone challenged.
Last edited by: DP on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 16:37
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>>I clearly remember their area manager being summoned to see the very angry Dealer Principal of the Ford dealer I worked at, to explain just how their (expensive) regular night time patrols of our forecourt could completely miss a gang of masked men breaking into four Mondeos, pushing each of them 100 yds out into the service road, then breaking into and driving away the Escort and Sierra Cosworths which the Mondeos had blocked in, all of which they managed to do without being spotted, let alone challenged.
Inside Man.
Simples.
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>> Obviously not as good as the NHS with 1.7m employees (soon to be less) and
>> a budget of £70bn+....
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> (I presume some of G4S's employees are paid in magic beans in other countries as
>> their turnover seems to be around £11k per employee per annum).
>>
Welcome to the real world where the majority of people do not earn the amounts that this lot get paid (in the public sector who go on strike and prey on their weak, ill, and dying customers):
goo.gl/MJDlV
;-)
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Gee those guys must be paying a lot of tax/superann back into the public purse.
;-)
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>> Gee those guys must be paying a lot of tax/superann back into the public purse.
>>
>> ;-)
>>
I wonder why no one has ever thought of that. Must make sense to increase their pay ten fold at least, then they can pay a lot more back in to the public purse.
Let us call it The Medical Theory of Public Finance and Economics, a la Perpetual Motion.
;-)
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Maybe a switch to the healthcare system in the US will push down the costs through competition.
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>> Maybe a switch to the healthcare system in the US will push down the costs through competition.
:o}
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You are right there is a QE2 something in London - I don't get there often enough to know all this stuff!
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>> It's madness that there's a lot of people wanting to do this and there's been
>> plenty of time to sort it.
>>
The Labour shadow-Home-Minister Yvette Cooper was squirming when asked on Sky news why she was criticising the Tories for lack of forward-planning, when it was Labour who had massively underestimated the Security needs of the Games.
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There must be a big terrorist threat with all these soldiers and security staff.
Best to stay at home and watch the games on the telly.
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>> There must be a big terrorist threat with all these soldiers and security staff.
>>
>> Best to stay at home and watch the games on the telly.
>>
Best not to watch at all.
Makes cricket look exciting...
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>> There must be a big terrorist threat with all these soldiers and security staff.
You know, with all the security attention and resources heaped upon the olympics, if i were a terrorist I would be thinking about the now stretched resources elsewhere......
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Or if I was Argentinian...
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Its ok, there is a sub mooching about down there, the Argies are scared of subs.
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>> Its ok, there is a sub mooching about down there, the Argies are scared of
>> subs.
Is that a reference to "Fifty Shades Of Grey"?
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>> >> Its ok, there is a sub mooching about down there, the Argies are scared
>> of
>> >> subs.
>> Is that a reference to "Fifty Shades Of Grey"?
I knew you marines were girly.
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>> If CRB had told G4S that it would take that long, I feel sure no
>> one would have tendered for the contract to provide security at the Olympics.
Any half intelligent organisation would check. The CRB are notorious for long delays and sheer inability to get things right - often due to faulty data to be fair.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 13 Jul 12 at 16:16
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>> hope they are being hammered contract penaltywise for not producing the manpower and they don't get another government contract EVER!
>>
Last edited by: swiss tony on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 18:25
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BBC news,
The company was also one of four contractors bidding to take over some services for Surrey Police, but the region's police authority voted on Thursday to suspend the plan - and is now thinking of scrapping it entirely.
Members of Surrey Police Authority were unhappy about G4S's failure to recruit enough guards for the Olympics.
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According to the "Tonight" programme, France is doing exceedingly well out of hosting the training facilities that London was hoping to cash in on! - worth an estimated 13bn!!
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A great rant, with which I, of course, agree!
tinyurl.com/6wvc5bx
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I thought when I read the first line that "Z" had a "retirement" job!!
James Delingpole is a writer, - who is right about everything.
Compulsory smilies!! ;-) ;-)
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Whoops.
Blame everyone except for themselves.
www.itv.com/news/2012-07-12/leaked-documents-show-home-office-concerns-over-g4s-months-ago/
Looks like the public sector may have to step in to bail out an inefficient private company !
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 20:54
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I don't doubt G4 are largely the architects of their own misfortune, but they will have received only grudging cooperation thus far from a public sector which resents their presence.
When they took over prison escort duties, it's now accepted the Prison Service deliberately gave them the wrong measurements for prison gates to produce the "Stupid G4 turn up with a van too big to get into the jail' story.
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Group 4 became known as Group 3 in our area just after taking over prison escort duties because they lost 1.
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When my step-son started looking into doing some sort of security role at the olympics it was the new year. There have been periods when little seemed to be happening. This has incompetence clearly running through the planning etc.
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BBC news,
The company was also one of four contractors bidding to take over some services for Surrey Police, but the region's police authority voted on Thursday to suspend the plan - and is now thinking of scrapping it entirely.
Members of Surrey Police Authority were unhappy about G4S's failure to recruit enough guards for the Olympics.
Lincolnshire have done it!
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I posted this on another thread. I've repeated it as it's relevant here. Six months ago I was given the 'nod' from a mate locally about a good job coming up, now administered through G4S.
Tried registering for a civil service type job they now oversee (or anything similar)...and found it incredibly, frustratingly, awfully, difficult. Website says in effect 'don't ring or e-mail, just fill in the electronic form', then when you have to speak/write to someone to clarify something that you think is important to get right, there's no one to call or e-mail. Quite how they ever get the right person for the right job, I have no idea. I have no confidence they'd ever get anything right, so will not now be bothering.
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Far too clever for their own good clearly. Hopefully my investment managers haven't put too much of my hard earned into them !
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Iffy,
It's a total failure on any level. They've screwed up on a massive scale. BA can't refuse or whine and blame anybody else, and poor old Tommy Atkins loses his holiday.
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 12 Jul 12 at 22:11
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Hopefully getting police (in Scotland) and troops elsewhere to help out will mean the olympics go ahead without compromises to safety. But G4S should have done something sooner - e.g. admitting they had been too ambitious.
I can see that maybe the pay is not great for some of the roles. And it is London. But step-son has said all along accommodation was going to be provided for the role he was applying to. And he started looking into this at the end of 2011.
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Westpig,
It now seems to be the same when applying internally for CS vacancies. Until about a year ago applicants were told 'if you want to know more about this job please contact the recruiting manager [name/phone number]. The expectation was that you'd use that opportunity to visit the office and clarify the job expectations.
Now you just have to rely on the job description and your ability to exemplify the 'competencies' required for the post.
For a short while they tried 'anonymising' the applications so that the sifting panel didn't see the applicant's names. Trouble was that in a limited field it was difficult not to recognise the candidates.
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Big talk, big aspirations but unable to deliver practically.
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They're too embarrassed to go on the news to use corporatespeak to try and excuse their abysmalness.
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I'm not so sure what is going on here.Maybe the Government had every intention of bringing the army in for support.Remember the riots last year.
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Candidates for the G4S jobs:
"Robert Brown, a former police sergeant, told the Guardian that he pulled out of the recruitment process for the Games after seeing it close at hand.
He said: "They were trying to process hundreds of people and we had to fill out endless forms. It was totally chaotic and it was obvious to me that this was being done too quickly and too late."
Another G4S trainee, an ex-policeman, described the process as "an utter farce".
He added: "There were people who couldn't spell their own name. The staff were having to help them. Most people hadn't filled in their application forms correctly. Some didn't know what references were and others said they didn't have anyone who could act as a referee. The G4S people were having to prompt them, saying things like "what about your uncle?"
Some applicants are/were former asylum seekers who have no original documents or recorded history to allow them be vetted. Their names can have various English spellings - eg. Mohammed, Mohammad, Mohamad, Muhammad, Mahomet, Muhammed, etc. are all the same name.
Clearly many of the applicant's are not of Mrs Bromptonaut's calibre or background with easily traceable documents and history, and their CRB checks are going to take more than Mrs B's 2 weeks.
G4S is already finding that today's pool of jobseekers can't be trusted to turn up for work even after they have been vetted and trained. Their pool of "temporary guards" has been found to work ethics and attitudes to work like those of the youth shown on www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00tt325
The only people who you can guarantee will turn up to work at the Olympics at any given time on time and without "working to rule" and/or without expecting overtime are the soldiers of the British Army.
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where are all these extra troops going to stay? As well as having missiles forced upon them, are the residents now going to be billeted?
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A large tented camp has been erected somewhere out on hackney marshes.
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Yes they are think of it as home based personal security you can never be too safe. I see the residents appeal failed no surprise there.
As to accomodation serious answer, many will fill up current stations and bases around London our lot are staying in portacabins in Romford. No doubt there will be other temp sites dotted around London.
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>> The only people who you can guarantee will turn up to work at the Olympics
>> at any given time on time and without "working to rule" and/or without expecting overtime
>> are the soldiers of the British Army.
And the unpaid volunteers.... some of whom have been give the crappiest shifts and work patterns you could ever imagine. How does 24 days on with 4 days off grab you? 8-10 hour shifts, some 5:15 starts and some 23:00 finishes.
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>>
>> The only people who you can guarantee will turn up to work at the Olympics
>> at any given time on time and without "working to rule" and/or without expecting overtime
>> are the soldiers of the British Army.
Not just the army, two shades of blue are involved as well ;)
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just "commandeer" a couple of Ferries or a liner and moor it in the Thames, cut out transport probs, and if needed their on the doorstep!
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HMS Ocean is doing just that and some other ships at various other venues.
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>> He added: "There were people who couldn't spell their own name. The staff were having
>> to help them. Most people hadn't filled in their application forms correctly. Some didn't know
>> what references were and others said they didn't have anyone who could act as a
>> referee. The G4S people were having to prompt them, saying things like "what about your
>> uncle?"
>>
>> Some applicants are/were former asylum seekers who have no original documents or recorded history to
>> allow them be vetted. Their names can have various English spellings - eg. Mohammed, Mohammad,
>> Mohamad, Muhammad, Mahomet, Muhammed, etc.
And anybody who's recruited for 'blue collar' posts on London over the past 5-10 years knows you get those sort of problems. G4S should have been ready and had the systems in place. Not do have done so suggests a lack of professional grasp.
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That stuff should have been filtered out much earlier in the process, or rejected there and then.
Its this detritus and sheer unsuitability for the role thats clogging it up. Of course if you offer bottom of the bin wage rates you need to comb through the rubbish that arrives.
Last edited by: Zero on Fri 13 Jul 12 at 10:19
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>> Its this detritus and sheer unsuitability for the role thats clogging it up. Of course
>> if you offer bottom of the bin wage rates you need to comb through the
>> rubbish that arrives.
>>
+1
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>> It now seems to be the same when applying internally for CS vacancies. Until about
>> a year ago applicants were told 'if you want to know more about this job
>> please contact the recruiting manager [name/phone number]. The expectation was that you'd use that opportunity
>> to visit the office and clarify the job expectations.
>>
>> Now you just have to rely on the job description and your ability to exemplify
>> the 'competencies' required for the post.
I couldn't believe the inefficiency of it.
You filled in an on-line form that wasn't necessarily accurate, in that you recorded your current industry. Trouble was, if you were looking for work in another field or one field merged into another, how did you get the correct message across?
There was literally no method of getting hold of anyone to ask, the website specifically advised not to e-mail them for job queries...and there was no phone number for the jobs section.
In the end, I e-mailed anyway, breaching their advice.....and eventually got an e-mail reply from someone who left their phone number...so I rang it......because I wanted my application right, I wanted to be considered for the right job and presumed they'd want their commission for placing me in the right company...the young lady I spoke to told me "Oh, the system doesn't work very well"....well i'd already worked that out.
To refresh my memory for this post, I've just logged in again....and found all the stuff I thought I'd done 6 months ago (e.g. registered CV, filled in employment history, provided references, etc) is still showing as incomplete, there's nothing there...yet there was and I've got an e-mail here from someone thanking me for doing it, 6 months ago????
What a total shower of ****.
Luckily, I gave up on them 5 months ago, so couldn't care less now.
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I think the whole Olympic thing is going to be one great big embarrassment.
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Some of the troops being deployed to London have just returned from Afghanistan, had their leave cancelled and are being flown in from Germany so that they can bail out G4S and Teresa May. Some of them will be leaving the Services soon after the Games, having been made redundant in the recent Defenwo cuts In the meantime trains drivers on about £40K are getting a bonus for working during the Games. Bonus for what? Driving a train is driving a train whenever you do it.
Tow dummy explosive devices were got thru the G4S security screen during recent tests and a senior police office found a member of G4S on site in uniform who could neither speak nor understand English. Not urban myths - taken from today's Times
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Shocking Meldrew if true (don't read the Times any more) - The reason they've bought the Army in is that that it's a huge trained, flexible, disciplined and available workforce, a workforce that is used to working hard under difficult conditions and who will moan and groan about conditions but can't do anything about it. Squaddies won't get any overtime either. Much the same in the battalion of recently retired cops as well, people who can organise themselves without much leadership who will do anything for the money they're being paid. There is a voice in the wilderness in here trying to defend G4S - get real they're a bunch of corporate herberts who couldn't arrange cushions on a sofa !
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I'd only take issue with you on "Huge" Rob! Small, overstretched and still being cut as we speak suits better IMO.
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Rumour has it that these people also run TalkTalk's "help" lines!
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Just a quick check on my FB page a former Police Officer friend posted the targeted e-mail he got from G4S - fifteen of his friends have responded and are going in short order. That's just one ex-cop I know !
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>> Just a quick check on my FB page a former Police Officer friend posted the
>> targeted e-mail he got from G4S - fifteen of his friends have responded and are
>> going in short order. That's just one ex-cop I know !
yeah but with G4S doing the call up will they ever get there?
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If the troops aren't trained in how to operate scanners or know what to look out for when checking bags or searching people.... how's that better than untrained civilians. The only thing you are really avoiding is recruitment and security checks on the individuals.
This is a right shambles. They've had years to prepare for this and G4S has messed up big time.
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It is now suggested that even the extra troops won't be enough and that police staff will have to be diverted to the task. My newspaper also reports that many people were forced into employment by being told they would forfeit their Benefits if they didn't; this has led to low grade recruits and a 50% drop-out rate and apparently the syllabus for the training of the recruits was only finalised by LOCOG "This week". Usual thoughts involving breweries and parties come to mind
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Matt from the Torygraph has it!
tinyurl.com/58ogvs
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>> Matt from the Torygraph has it!
Yesterday's was better.
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LOCOG are advertising “Last Mile” staff jobs:
locogrecruitment.london2012.com/jobs/main?cmd=reqDisplayVacancies
Note the closing date for applications: 04/09/2012
By then, even the paraolympics will be on its "last mile".
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report on bbc G4s boss owns up to a mess up. he says he only knew about the shortage of people 8 or 9 days ago. Clearly a well run company.
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>> report on bbc G4s boss owns up to a mess up. he says he only
>> knew about the shortage of people 8 or 9 days ago. Clearly a well run
>> company.
>>
Common practice in all organisations - public or private : the bosses are the last to be told of problems. Good news will be conveyed very rapidly to the top, bad news will be swept under the carpet or held back until there is no possibility of keeping it from the bosses.
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>> Common practice in all organisations - public or private : the bosses are the last
>> to be told of problems. Good news will be conveyed very rapidly to the top,
>> bad news will be swept under the carpet or held back until there is no
>> possibility of keeping it from the bosses.
Rubbish. When I was in the commercial world, I has sign off and risk for 50k of business, My boss had up to 100k, the boss above 250, the line of business manager 1 million. . Above this it needed executive level sign off. A 300 million pound contract would have had board level management. If this wasn't being managed at this level its the head honchos fault for not having correct focus on it.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 20:28
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>> Rubbish. When I was in the commercial world, I has sign off and risk for
>>
Rubbish to you to. Clearly you have been kept in the dark about what was going on in your own company.
You may well rubbish it, but the fact remains that middle management in UK owned companies act as "blockers" of bad news. It is a fact that you cannot change.
Now if you want to talk about US owned companies, that is a different matter. For a start, if middle management act as blockers, the junior employees have a legal SOX hotline. If you don't know what that is, google it. Nothing like that is required in UK company law. If it was, then the whistleblowers would not need to talk to BBC, CH4 or Telegraph to get their story out.
Last edited by: John H on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 19:37
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>> Now if you want to talk about US owned companies, that is a different matter.
>> For a start, if middle management act as blockers, the junior employees have a legal
>> SOX hotline. I
I know what Sarbanes Oxley is, and so does any company that wants to do business in the US or with US affiliated companies. As far as "blocking" goes, its not a matter of blocking its a matter of responsibility, and any board would would have a member as sponsor of a 300 million pound contract.
So if they don't, its a badly managed company, if its a badly managed company that is the responsibility of the CEO, because its his job to put the management in place.
SOX is not about whistle blowing, SOX compliance is all about having the proper management in place.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 20:28
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>I has sign off and risk for 50k of business,
The accountants have now taken over the asylum Zero.
I need executive approval to spend-a-penny.
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All of this hassle so that a bunch of people can spend a bunch of money going to see a bunch of sports that they've never watched before, have no interest in, and will never watch again.
And all because it's branded as the Olympics.
They'd probably all buy cat droppings too, if you called them Olympic Droppings, and told them it was a once in a lifetime experience.
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I gather you are not a fan, then?
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The bosses will get their bonuses - apparently boss responsibility doesn't stretch as far as actually knowing what your troops are doing, be they footballers, bankers or ***** security recruitment....
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 19 Jul 12 at 00:43
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>> The bosses will get their bonuses -
Mr Buckles said on C4 News that he won't get his bonus this year.
>> apparently boss responsibility doesn't stretch as far as
>> actually knowing what your troops are doing,
>>
So Locog should have known, the Culture Secretary should have known, the PM should have known, and the Queen should have known. But only God knows why God didn't know.
Only a one-man band company would ever hope to know what his/her troops (i.e. him/her) were doing. Once you start to grow beyond the one-man band, it becomes impossible to know everything, at all times, that the other staff are up to.
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Any company involved in planning huge recruitment to a deadline will (or should) have a number of key targets and dates for them to be met by.
I suspect G4S knew at least 4-6 weeks ago they were facing a major problem and tried to avoid it coming into the open whilst they tried to fix it.
If LOCOG had similar targets for G4S - security was a key issue - then they would have known as well.
If neither had such targets, their respective MDs deserve to suffer more than a loss of bonuses.
None of the above is magic: it's common management practise..
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Huge waste.
We should have made a virtue out of an Austerity Olympics. Those responsible for a £6 billion overspend should be in jail.
It's not as if it wasn't entirely predicable either. My heart sank when London "won" the Olympics.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 12:45
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theresa may should be for the high jump :)
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According to my "Oracle" only a handful of Countries have hosted the games more than once. Most have held them twice, Greece, France, Germany, America have done them 4 times, and this is our third!
Countries soon "Cottoned-on" to the Eurovision Song Contest, Nobody really wants to win it because they then host it next year, at great expense. This is one area the WE do best! and we should adopt that same policy for the games, yet we actually went out there and actually tried to win them!! (which we did). For a bunch of losers, I`ve never seen beaten rivals with bigger smiles than the other Countries!
Last edited by: devonite on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 13:02
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>> According to my "Oracle" only a handful of Countries have hosted the games more than
>> once. Most have held them twice, Greece, France, Germany, America have done them 4 times,
>> and this is our third!
1908, because we were the centre of the world.
1948, because there were only two places in the world capable of holding the games, The USA and the UK. The 1948 games (followed by the Festival of Britain) are now considered crucial to putting us back in some kind of commercial shape after ww2 crippled us.
2102, its now recognised that the 2012 games is the only things thats kept the economy anywhere near stable and will recoup its costs in many other commercial ways.
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>> 2102, its now recognised that the 2012 games is the only things thats kept the
>> economy anywhere near stable and will recoup its costs in many other commercial ways.
>>
So we will be hosting it in 2102 as well..... WOW!!
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>> Huge waste.
>>
>> We should have made a virtue out of an Austerity Olympics. Those responsible for a
>> £6 billion overspend should be in jail.
>>
>> It's not as if it wasn't entirely predicable either. My heart sank when London "won"
>> the Olympics.
>>
My heart sank too.
Its not just the literal cost, its the hidden (ignored??) cost.
Genuine tourists (those that come here, and spend lots of money on attractions) will be staying away, maybe they will come next year, maybe they wont.
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I hope the Olympics is enjoyed by the people and the athletes who put in all the training.If Coca Cola Heineken and Mc Donalds are paying for it who cares.
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r Buckles described the recruitment process as "very complex", with applicants having to be "screened, SIA (Security Industry Authority) trained and licensed, role specific trained and accredited by the Home Office
Senior managers at G4S only realised "eight or nine days ago", that they could not provide enough security guards for the London Olympics, the company's chief executive has said
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-18840464
Seems like they are a bunch of merchanting banksters (the swear filter thinks "merchant people who work in banks" is a swearword)
Last edited by: madf on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 15:01
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Mr Buckles looks a scruffy git.
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>> Mr Buckles looks a scruffy git.
>>
+1
so does Richard Branson...:-)
Last edited by: madf on Sat 14 Jul 12 at 18:42
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(the swear filter thinks "merchant people who work in banks" is a swearword)
Who taught it Cockney?? ;-)
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Seems like that they will loose £30-50m plus the costs of drafting 3500 extra troops.
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Gonna be locking this soon to make the threads into volumes (as the story is likely to run)
Watched this earlier.....(you couldn't make it up)
www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01kvdzn/Twenty_Twelve_Series_2_Catastrophisation/
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He was sweating like a pig in the interview on the ITV news tonight.......
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Olympic Security Mess - MD
