| Non-motoring > RIP Labour ? | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Cpt. Flack | Replies: 109 |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 13:21
RIP Labour ? - Cpt. Flack
|
|
This morning two more newspapers have backed away from Labour to support the other two main parties. Apart from "The Mirror", there is no more support for Labour in the press. Will this be the death for Gordon? Watching him being interviewed by Jeremy Paxman yesterday I felt Gordon came across quite strong, stronger than in the 3 debates. He showed his passion and determination to steer this country through the current fragile recovery and handle the issues that affect us all. His showing during the debates seemed contrived and at times managed. So were the other two, but he just wasn't comfortable with it which showed, whereas his Paxman interview seems to have passed under the radar. IMO his best "performance" and one that appeared natural. He is well out of his depth with spin and TV. SKY had an agenda with the bigot debacle. It was wrong. But what buffoon in the car didn't remind him to remove the microphone or who at SKY relished the opportunity to carry on recording knowing he was still being listened to. I think SKY, with their allegiance to the Tories, had an agenda. They were all party to giving GB a kicking. It was wrong for GB to speak in private the way he did. But how many times has the mike for the other two been switched off as their filming or interviews have stopped. Comments by all these guys in private would probably have the same impact as that of GB. He just happened to be caught out. On purpose in my view. Usually when an interview is ended these mikes are grabbed back quickly, because they are so expensive. Why not on this occasion. Part of me feels sorry for him. I just feel he would be the best person to lead this country. If one of the other two parties lead this country with their policies and it all goes pear shaped, they will blame him anyway. We could end up like Greece or Spain or in a double dip recession. The NI rises are unpopular, but the other two will raise taxes in other ways, so don't think it will be a walk in the park with them in power. The sliding scale for fuel duty I do agree with. In fact I proposed this on another motoring forum a couple of years ago and wrote with the idea to the "Express" letters page at the same time. ( DC I'd like some recognition please). Sometimes its better the devil you know, and with this governments policies we might just survive the global financial crisis. At the moment I am in work, I have low interest rates, low inflation and stagnant VAT. My kids have had a wonderful education over the past 12 years and I've had an operation and other treatment in quick time on the NHS. I don't feel confidence for the future under the Tories on the subject of the NHS. In fact you will probably have to pay for certain things privately in the future. Blair has a lot to do with the unpopularity of this government and feel he jumped ship before it hit the quayside. GB grabbed it by the horns, no I'm not talking about his bovine appearance, and prevented a depression. And no it wasn't his making. I know there are other political views that will counter these comments, but I feel we need a competent leader not a charismatic one. Give him a chance to show his mettle for once. And no, my Labour candidate has no chance in my ward, so I'll be tactical voting this time. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 13:31
RIP Labour ? - MrTee43
|
|
Why do you class Gordon Brown as competent, either as a chancellor or prime minister. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 13:32
RIP Labour ? - MrTee43
|
| Maybe, you are a Labour spin doctor in disguise ? |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 13:53
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| I just watched the Paxman debate - two apologies in the first 3 minutes and the following 27 minutes, blaming everyone apart from himself and being woolly and selective about what he said in the past. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 14:08
RIP Labour ? - teabelly
|
|
Gordon Brown is a clown. He's no more suited to being primeminister than a cat is to raising mice. Blaming everyone else is a classic sign of incompetence. He was so obsessed with being in charge he didn't stop to realise if he would be any good. He hasn't been. Had he called the first Autumn he'd have been out on his ear just as he'll be out on his ear next week. For a socialist he's been useless as the poverty gap has widenened even further. Education is a shambles. So is the nhs which is so target driven it has forgotten about patient care and is happily killing people to meet arbitrary targets set by faceless suits with no medical training. But this is what labour does. Tax, spend, ruin, blame everyone else. So the tories come along clean up the mess and we remember how hard it was under them as we forget they're clearing up the crap from labour. I can't find any party to vote for. Every last one has one or more abhorrent policies which I couldn't in all consciousness choose. Oh for a 'none of the above' then I'd bother to vote. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 14:13
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| He ain't a socialist TB ! |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 15:04
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
|
As chancelor, GB has been fortunate to ride a 10 year wave of growth, that was mainly fuelled by Tory deregulation. As PM he has been a disaster. He is totally unsuited to lead a party, or formulate policy as he has no leadership skills of any kind. He has no grasp of earning a living, or living on a fixed wage as he has never had a proper job nor lived with or amoung the electorate (to be fair he is not the only one). He is bitter in that he feels he was kept from leadership for too long, he is bitter than no-one finds him likeable and he is bitter that no-one can see his undoubted (to him) place in the order of things. IN summary, he has none of the traits required in a leader of the country. Either to be elected or to run and control it. He has brought the labour party to its knees. And in his mind, its someone elses fault. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 15:07
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
...in summary, he has none of the traits required in a leader of the country... But all the traits required to be a modern politician. The best way to delude others is first delude yourself - it makes you so much more convincing. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 15:11
RIP Labour ? - Robin O'Reliant
|
|
Brown has made many disasterous mistakes which has sent us deeper into recession. The following have been widely circulated in the press and on the internet, showing what a disaster area he has been - 1. Taxing dividend payments Before 1997, dividends issued by UK companies and paid to pension funds were tax-free - that is, the tax could be claimed back via a system of tax credits. Not any more, decided Brown. Tax relief was scrapped, reducing the amount collected by pension funds by around £5 billion a year. Pension funds holding the cash that you, me and almost everyone else in the country plan to use for our retirement have lost around £100 billion over the last 12 years. That's one hell of a stealth tax. 2. Selling our gold In May 1999 Gordon Brown had a plan to sell some gold. There were two problems with this, which concerned his economic advisers deeply. The price of gold had slumped after a decade of stagnation, but was likely to increase in the proceeding years. Added to this, the announcement of a major sell-off would drive the price down further. Little of this worried Gordon. Experts believe that the poorly timed decision to flog our national treasure has cost us all around £3 billion. Granted, that doesn't seem much nowadays, but more of that later. 3. Tripartite financial regulation The system of financial regulation dividing powers between the Treasury, the Bank of England and the Financial Services Authority, established by Brown as Chancellor in 2000, missed what amounted to the biggest financial crisis of our lifetime. Whoops. This has led some glass-half-empty commentators to conclude that the system set up by Brown failed and should be replaced. The Commons Treasury Select Committee’s report on the collapse of Northern Rock said that the Financial Services Authority had “systematically failed in its duty” to oversee the troubled bank’s activities. Little did it realise at the time that Northern Rock was the over-leveraged tip of the securitised iceberg. 4. Tax credits “Gordon Brown claims the tax credits system lifts children out of poverty,” says Simon Blackmore, 38, who was pursued for £6,057 in over-paid tax credits. “Maybe it does, but only to plunge them and their families into debt two years later.” Millions of low-income families have had to pay back the Treasury after receiving too much money in tax credits, putting them under huge financial and emotional strain. Meanwhile, 40 per cent of workers and families who deserved tax credits left billions of pounds unclaimed in the 2008-09 tax year for fear of being chased for the cash later on. Introduced in 1999, reformed in 2000, tax credits have been "a complete disaster zone", according to tax experts. 5. The £10,000 corporation tax threshold In 2002, Gordon Brown introduced a new tax regime to help small businesses. He announced a new zero per cent rate of corporation tax on profits below £10,000. It was designed to boost the ability of small businesses to grow and prosper. It didn't quite work out this way. It became advantageous for sole traders such as taxi drivers or plumbers to turn themselves into limited companies to take advantage of the new rules. A Treasury Minister later commented that "the Government did not realise how many people would engage in abusive tax avoidance", despite the fact that it was "blindingly obvious" to tax experts "within 5 seconds" of the budget announcement that this would happen. Gordon scrapped the rules a few years later, raising the rate from 0 per cent to 19 per cent when he released how much money was being lost. 6. Abolition of the 10p tax rate Mr Brown rarely apologises. In fact, he never apologises. But occasionally he acknowledges "mistakes", albeit begrudgingly. Over the abolition of the 10p tax rate in 2007, Mr Brown told Radio 4's Today programme that "we made two mistakes. We didn't cover as well as we should that group of low-paid workers who don't get the working tax credits and we weren't able to help the 60 to 64-year-olds who didn't get the pensioner's tax allowance." Experts use stronger language to describe the Budget of 2007, which was designed to produce positive headlines for the 2p cut in income tax. Accountants calculated that the scrapping of the 10 per cent tax rate, coupled with the increase in the proportion of tax credits withdrawn from higher earners, would leave 1.8 million workers earning between £6,500 and £15,000 paying an effective tax rate of up to 70 per cent. 7. Failing to spot the housing bubble Gordon Brown said he ended boom and bust, and in those innocent days before the collapse of the global finance system we believed him. In 1997, he outlined his plans. "Stability is necessary for our future economic success", he wisely informed an audience at the CBI. "The British economy of the future must be built not on the shifting sands of boom and bust, but on the bedrock of prudent and wise economic management." The other components of that bedrock including a trillion-pound debt mountain and a decade of unchecked and unparalleled house price inflation presumably slipped his mind. In 2003 a mild-mannered Liberal Democrat MP by the name of Vince Cable dared to question the mantra of "the end of boom and bust". He asked Gordon Brown: "Is it not true that...the growth of the British economy is sustained by consumer spending pinned against record levels of personal debt, which is secured, if at all, against house prices that the Bank of England describes as well above equilibrium level?" Gordon replied: "The Honourable Gentleman has been writing articles in the newspapers, as reflected in his contribution, that spread alarm, without substance, about the state of the economy..." We all know what happened next. 8. 50 per cent tax rate Robert Chote, director of the Institute for Fiscal Studies, has said the tax hike which heralded the end the new Labour may actually end up losing the Government money. "If you look at what happened when higher rates were last changed in the 1980s, that might lead you to suggest that such a move might actually lose you revenue, rather than gain it, as people actually declare less income for tax," he said. 9. Cutting VAT "It would be funny if it wasn’t so serious," said a tax accountant when asked about the Brown-Darling brainwave to cut VAT by 2.5 percentage points. As a nation of shoppers, rather than shopkeepers, a chopped down sales tax sounds like a good idea, providing a vital boost to hard-pressed families at a time of financial hardship. There were two problems. It costs £12.5 billion a year and it has made little discernable difference to those hard-pressed families because it is shopkeepers, rather than shoppers, who have pocketed much of the benefit. 10. Public-sector borrowing If Gordon had only saved a little more in the good times, we might have had a little more to fall back on in the bad, economists sigh. Last month saw public-sector net borrowing hit £19.9 billion, the highest on record, according to the Office for National Statistics. The chancellor of the exchequer, Alistair Darling, has forecast that Government borrowing will reach £175 billion this year. It is forecast that total government debt will double to 79 per cent of GDP by 2013, the highest level since World War 2. Mr Chote recently warned that "the scale of the underlying problem that the Treasury’s detailed forecasts identify will require two full parliaments of mounting austerity to repair.” As I quoted on another thread, electing Gordon Brown to pull us out of recession is like falling ill and going to see Dr Harold Shipman for a cure. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 15:20
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
|
> 1. Taxing dividend payments Yup. Gordon Brown is almost wholly and completely responsible for the death of my company pension scheme, and the fact I have now retired early ( and subsequently not paying a minimum of 10k a year in taxes into his coffers for the next 10 years. ) |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 15:35
RIP Labour ? - John H
|
|
>> survive the global financial crisis. At the moment I am in work I have low >> interest rates low inflation and stagnant VAT. My kids have had a wonderful education over >> the past 12 years and I've had an operation and other treatment in quick time >> on the NHS. I don't feel confidence for the future under the Tories on the >> subject of the NHS. In fact you will probably have to pay for certain things >> privately in the future. >> In a right to reply to Cap Flack, now follows a party political braodcast for the Tories. Everyone likes a free lunch and money growing on trees. Free education for your children, free NHs treatment for you, free this and free that. Except there is no free lunch. The hardworking middle class law abiding citizen is paying for it all through tax or Gordy is borrowing from China and India to pay for the hole in the budget. NuLab inherited a thriving and booming economy from John Major in 1997. Over the following 13 years, Blair and Brown went on a spending spree without any care for if the money was being spent wisely. Money was spent without regard to the debt burden it was creating. The public has got used to living beyond its means. The state sector got expanded along with its promises to pay unsustainable inflation proofed finaly salary pensions. Tackling the debt is an immediate major headache, but worse is to come when the millions of state sector employees start drawing their pensions with ever increasing longevity of the population. Labour and the LibDems believe that there is a bottomless pit of cash that they can plunder from the wealth creators of this country. The Nissan Sunderland production of the Micra is ending and the new Micra for the EU market will be produced in Chennai in India. But we are all in for a shock. I know there are many businesses actively looking to move manufacturing and back office tasks to China and India. Time for a reality check, time for Clegg and Brown to get real, time for Cameron to dish out the bitter medicine such as the Greeks are getting forced on them. Greeks are likely to have to raise VAT to 25%, increase pension age to 67, cut state payroll by 20%. For Britain to become seriously competitive and stop the move to cheaper locations abroad, we need to cut wages throughout the economy by a huge amount, the Pound to devalue further, cut the crap of human rights and health and safety and maternity and sick pay laws, and drastically cut the bureacratic cost of doing business in the UK. A large proportion of the population has got used to being nannied. They need to grow up, behave like adults, start looking after themselves, take responsibility for their own futures and stop asking the State to take responsibilty. RIP Labour? rest in peace? I hope not, do not even give them an entry to hell but find them somehwere worse. Last edited by: John H on Sat 1 May 10 at 15:37
|
|
New Sat 1 May 10 15:59
RIP Labour ? - ....
|
|
>> NuLab inherited a thriving and booming economy from John Major in 1997. >> How did Labour inherit this ? Did Labour win or did the Conservatives throw it away. Were the electorate sick and tired of the party after 18 years ? What goes around comes around. I don't believe the people in the middle ground will relish the next Government, whoever forms it. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 16:45
RIP Labour ? - Armel Coussine
|
|
RIP Labour? Me don't tink so. But the election is too close to call. I don't know who the winners and losers are going to be. That ought to make it interesting, but somehow it doesn't. That's because so few of the top men in any of the parties seem to have the right stuff in sufficient quantities to quicken the pulse. I don't really care, on a visceral level, who wins. I would hope that any winning combo would show a measure of prudence. But there is no sign of the sort of reform of political thinking that seems to me to be necessary. It's all the same old bullying, arrogant, evasive, insolent, twerpish faff, deliberately twerpish because the carphounds know we are twerps. In this context, I will be swayed by the fact that the labour candidate in my newly gerrymandered constituency is a nipper who was at nursery school with my middle daughter and whose old lefty of a mother I like. Just can't be bothered to vote tactically and the tory is likely to be a shoo-in anyway. Seen two political WaGs in the last two days. Yesterday's was Mrs Cameron collecting her tot from my granddaughter's school. I suppose her heavy would have been a well-dressed lady with a biggish handbag, but didn't spot her. Today's, in the street I am staying in this weekend at the house of a friend who lives in Kew, the greeney-bluey rich-guy tory candidate's mother, who must be my age or so, lumbered terrifyingly out of a house up the road with a dozen or so campaigning minions, growling with false bonhomie... a lady instantly recognisable to a peruser of the society pages these last hundred years or so. Am I a bourgeois flibbertigibbet? Very likely, very likely. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 17:12
RIP Labour ? - Stuu
|
|
I dont think Labour knows what it is anymore, infact the Liberals look more like Labour than Labour do - which sort of makes them redundant. What is missing from all the main parties that I can see is a clear philosophical direction and it has been their undoing. Clegg did have a point about them looking the same, except he is also one of them. Its why people are undecided - choosing a party this election is like buying a car, the make and model is singular and the only choice in the matter you have is what shade of grey you opt for. Only the minor parties have clear agendas anymore because they feel they can afford to have them and be labelled as such. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 18:10
RIP Labour ? - henry k
|
|
>>What is missing from all the main parties that I can see is a clear philosophical direction and it has been their undoing. Clegg did have a point about them looking the same, except he is also one of them. Its why people are undecided - >> An interesting interview with Clegg. If this had been on TV it would be interesting to see the general response. I am surprised that the papers have not made more of this. www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00s2pjz/PM_28_04_2010/ 15 minutes in from the start ( 25min long) |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 17:14
RIP Labour ? - John H
|
|
>> How did Labour inherit this ? Did Labour win or did the Conservatives throw it >> away. >> Were the electorate sick and tired of the party after 18 years ? What goes >> around comes around. >> The answer to your question is here news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/573803.stm |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 17:26
RIP Labour ? - ....
|
| What's that phrase about leopard and spots ? |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 19:25
RIP Labour ? - busbee
|
|
hi All. You can't get rid of me that easy by moving elsewhere and changing your name. RR's elegant exposition has diminished this contribution somewhat while I was busy licking my pencil and writing on the desktop. In 97 a labour convaser asked an inlaw of mine "can we count on you vote". She replied, "No, I can't afford you lot". How right she was. Healy first and now Brown. Spend, spend, and more spend. Don't they love to do it. And when it got to where GB was being criticised for spending too much, based on an existing method of averaging it over a certain number of years, he altered the process in his favour. I remember reading it. I think he changed the date posts. As mentioned, he also sold the gold at a loss, to get even more money to spend. Little or no success, though, in saving money by getting people off the dole. Not their forte. GB found many ways to increase treasury intake, including the already mentioned 5 billion a year from pension funds, many of which have now colapsed, but he got upset by the treasury's standard practice to monitor the total tax-take due to all causes, as far as was practical, and make that information available. So he stopped them collecting it! Two of the government's own monitary advisors on a TV program chat show, some weeks ago now, said that half the money spent on NHS was wasted. Presumably, no longer advisers. I don't know about your rates, but one third of mine are used for paying council pensions. And rates have increased significantly cos money has gone up-north, to Labour country. Johnson, an ex-union man, did nothing to reduce pension costs, when he held that office. So they can still retire on a pension after 25 years! (?) And you and I will pay for it. I was interested in RR's info. on this. On imigration control, as we all know, there was none worth talking about. Illegals were being picked up by the police and immigaration released them immediately, in most cases, to get lost within the comunity, because of inadequate facilities and procedure. No computor record of imigrants entering and leaving. Chaos. An immigration official was dismissed for disclosing that many thousands of imigrants were being waived through without process. Not allowed to know things like that, are we? We got a true feeling of GB's attitude and complicity via the microphone incident but are now told (here) we are not looking at that right. It is not a fault with BG. Its that incompetant who forgot to disconnect the mic! Thank goodness for a few incompetants. The human rights legislation has been a disaster in allowing immigrant criminals, ex-prisoners, to stay here. Computer programs costing us many millions have failed. Doctors are now entering some of our medical details on a national computer link. We learnt that Labour wait for a disaster day to bury their own bad news and hope we will not discover it. Honesty does not enter into it. Only now are the polititians awakening to the need for the UK to have more people who can make things, and to place less reliance on the comodity gamblers who take home their large bonus winnings with no improvement to UK manufacture. And we should put this lot in again? |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 19:40
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| Glad you found us Buzbee ! |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 21:27
RIP Labour ? - busbee
|
| Thanks for the welcome. Nice to be here. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 23:02
RIP Labour ? - Armel Coussine
|
|
>> 'he also sold the gold at a loss...' I am struck by that. A business person of my acquaintance said to me just last night or so: 'He's just NO GOOD. He sold all our gold at the bottom of th market.' I've seen politicians do worse things than that. Still, I agree that is pretty crap for a Chancellor. My friend also said: 'What we need is a strong leader.' When I demurred, as one does, she said strong leaders were sometimes necessary fr a very limited period. The surprising thing is that she is a heavyweight anarchist who doesn't normally say that sort of thing. Personally I remain very suspicious of strong leaders or people who come on as such. That way lie all sorts of ghastly things. But I couldn't help seeing what she meant. I put it differently myself above. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 23:23
RIP Labour ? - Armel Coussine
|
|
>> sold the gold at a loss...' A further point about language that I often try to make: the French expression and accompanying concept 'fuite en avant'. It means literally 'flight (in the sense of retreat) in a forward direction', the sort of thing that can happen in the confusion of battle. But it can also mean following the line of least resistance until the whole caboodle is going downhill out of control. It's a concept French commentators often apply to deteriorating political situations, essentially because it's a thing that happens to politicians and officials all the time. There is no equivalent English expression. But there seems to be a need for one sometimes, I can't help thinking. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 11:25
RIP Labour ? - Cpt. Flack
|
|
" He sold all our gold at the bottom of th market.'" ALL our gold. Are you positive. The recent BBC History programme presented by David Dimbleby did a section in the bowels of the Bank of England. There were stacks of bullion. I think you are mistaken. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:18
RIP Labour ? - Armel Coussine
|
|
>> ALL our gold. Are you positive. No, I'm not... but then I don't have to be since I was quoting someone else. I'm not a run-of-the-mill Brown-basher like so many here. But like other sensible people I don't think a regime has much juice left after a decade or more. After the sick orgasmic frenzy of the next few days, we will have a new government, or a new version of the old one. I don't expect any radical change as a result, but what do I know? There's a first time for everything. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:26
RIP Labour ? - Cpt. Flack
|
|
I just wish people wouldn't lose sight that they are voting for MPs not a Prime Minister. If Labour manage to turn opinion around you can bet there will be a change of Labour leader sooner or later. One success that has not been mentioned at all during this campaign is Northern Ireland. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 22:14
RIP Labour ? - John H
|
|
>> What's that phrase about leopard and spots ? >> True. Changing the name to New labour didn't last very long, and as soon as Blair was away, Gordy showed the true spots of the socialist beast with his desire to rob the rich to redistribute wealth to the poor. Except there aren't enough rich domiciled people left to rob and Gordy has no option but to borrow from the Chinese and Indians to prop up his expensive tastes of handouts to inefficient non-performing state monliths. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 21:44
RIP Labour ? - SteelSpark
|
|
The thing that gets me about Brown is that he keeps saying that he is strong on managing the economy, and will do what it takes to fix things and make sure they never happen again. Well, what was he doing for the past 13 years? He was Chancellor for 10 years and has been Prime Minister for almost 3 years. Of all the people that are currently charged with fixing the economic mess, he is probably one of the only ones who has been in a position to influence the economy of a country for a very long time during the build-up to the crisis. If he considers himself such a economic genius, then why didn't he do what needed doing over the past 13 years? Why didn't he spot the problems and do what was necessary to avoid the worst of it. I think perhaps he was simply Chancellor during a global economic boom and was happy to take credit for the UK's part in that, but was as blind to the problems as everybody else. I reckon that we are looking at a hung parliament, with the Lib Dems siding with whoever will promise them proportional representation, so we have probably had our last majority government for many, many years, maybe our last one ever. Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sat 1 May 10 at 21:44
|
|
New Sat 1 May 10 22:00
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
Don't think we'll ever get Prop Rep here, it would mean the bogeyman getting several seats as in the EU, unthinkable.....until things get much worse as they will. Broon is lost, unfortunately i don't see anything to write home about from the other 2 spokepersons of the 3 headed monster that is the current party...constant polished rhetoric and evasive squirming around leave me cold, much as i disagreed with her on most things i wish there was a Maggie about, still sporting a full set. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 22:28
RIP Labour ? - SteelSpark
|
|
>> Don't think we'll ever get Prop Rep here it would mean the bogeyman getting several >> seats as in the EU unthinkable.....until things get much worse as they will. IMHO it is guaranteed if nobody gets a majority this time, because the Lib Dems will insist upon it as a condition of forming a coalition (in fact, I think that they have said as much). Cameron or Brown would have to be pretty strong to let the other get in because they refused to accept PR, especially as there is no guarantee that the other wouldn't accept it anyway (e.g. Cameron turns the Lib Dems down, only to find that Labour get in, and bring in PR anyway). |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 22:37
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
I do hope your prediction is right SS, truly interesting times ahead. My prediction for the next 100 years is that whoever MP's are they'll still be doing very nicely thankyou and still bending the facts to suit. edit...the cameroon really doesn't have what it takes, he should have wiped the floor with nulab this time. Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 1 May 10 at 22:39
|
|
New Sat 1 May 10 23:06
RIP Labour ? - ....
|
|
>> IMHO it is guaranteed if nobody gets a majority this time because the Lib Dems >> will insist upon it as a condition of forming a coalition (in fact I think >> that they have said as much). >> >> That commitment from either party will be up there with the commitment made to the electorate of a referendum on the EU Constitution. |
|
New Sat 1 May 10 23:46
RIP Labour ? - SteelSpark
|
|
>> >> IMHO it is guaranteed if nobody gets a majority this time because the Lib >> Dems >> >> will insist upon it as a condition of forming a coalition (in fact I >> think >> >> that they have said as much). >> >> >> >> >> That commitment from either party will be up there with the commitment made to the >> electorate of a referendum on the EU Constitution. The thing is, if they don't make progress on it, there is nothing to stop the Lib Dems pulling out of a coalition at any point. So it's not just the same as election promises that the parties can break after the election, and then just make new ones 4-5 years later. Really, the Lib Dems would be stupid not to force this (including threatening to pull out of an ongoing coalition), it could be their one chance in decades to get some real influence. If the latest opinion polls can be believed, they are about level on votes with Labour. Without PR that would give them 13% of the seats, well behind Labour on 41% of the seats, with PR it would obviously put them on level terms with Labour (and not far behind the Tories). They could really go from a perennial also-ran to a real power (even if those opinion polls swing well away from them, when it is a real vote rather than just an opinion poll). BTW this is what I am basing those figures on: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8609989.stm having clicked on the YouGov May 1st poll |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 03:11
RIP Labour ? - devonite
|
| Vote who you like at the next election, but in 30yrs time (allegedly) Britain will be a M****m country! - if you have young children in your families, there is only one party to vote for, if you want them to be brought up with the freedom you yourself have enjoyed. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 09:35
RIP Labour ? - teabelly
|
| The islamic fundamentalism has very little to do with what is actually in the Koran. Check out Yasmin Alibhia on Robert Llewellyn's carpool program. It's available on itunes. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 09:59
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
|
>> is only one party to vote for if you want them to be brought up >> with the freedom you yourself have enjoyed. >> Freedom? What freedom. The land of speed cameras and prosecution without identification, the land of security cameras and not policemen? the land of your DNA entered on a national criminal databse even tho you are not found guilty of crime? the land where the customs and revenue can enter your home without a warrant? If you want to curb immigration you have to GIVE UP any freedoms you have left, because the only way to stop and repatriate people from entering or in the country is by the use of draconian laws and a police state. Muslim state? you could stop that. When was the last time you went to your non muslim church? they are merely filling a hole you,we and I vacated. Last edited by: Zero on Sun 2 May 10 at 10:00
|
|
New Sun 2 May 10 10:20
RIP Labour ? - Focusless
|
|
>> If you want to curb immigration you have to GIVE UP any freedoms you have >> left because the only way to stop and repatriate people from entering or in the >> country is by the use of draconian laws and a police state. Is the Australian system any good? I don't know much about it, but just thought I'd heard it mentioned as one that 'works'. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 10:56
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| Brown claims to have adopted the Australian system in the Paxman interview. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 11:01
RIP Labour ? - Focusless
|
|
>> Brown claims to have adopted the Australian system in the Paxman interview. And does it work (in Australia)? Just looking for a non-police state system that works. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:25
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
|
>> >> Brown claims to have adopted the Australian system in the Paxman interview. >> >> And does it work (in Australia)? Just looking for a non-police state system that works. well put it like this, Australia have just adopted the chinese system of internet regulation and filter everything through national firewalls. The Aussie Police have much wider ranging powers than the UK police, and the Aussie coastguard intercept boat people, sink the boats with gunfire and intern the immigrants in barbed wire encampments in the bush. you and I cant visit Australia, without a visa. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 09:22
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
...That commitment from either party will be up there with the commitment made to the electorate of a referendum on the EU Constitution... There will never be a referendum on EU membership because the politicians know the result - a resounding vote to get out and never go back. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 10:18
RIP Labour ? - Tooslow
|
|
Many of the candidates are unsuitable cannon fodder, put forward at the insistence of central command and foisted on the local party. If they win they are expected to do as they are told. I'm all for "the party" having some control over the candidates but it has gone too far. A few years ago we had an SDP candidate, up in deepest, darkest Cheshire, who was from and lived in, London. Sorry, but I want a local guy. He was in his mid 30s, married with children. OK. He was a divinity student. Not ok. Not with me. His cv showed that he was a professional student. He hadn't done a hands turn in his life as far as I could make out. And he was considered a suitable candidate? Maybe there is no chance but is there not a local guy willing to give it a go? If not then maybe there is a message there. I've used the SDP as an example but we've seen examples from all parties in recent weeks, with several candidates dropped at the last moment. :-( One of the small joys is seeing the worst of 'em kicked out. :-) Whoever you vote for, a politician gets in, as the old saying goes. Maybe it should be like jury service. You're nominated and you have to do it for 5 years. It would be a rolling system to avoid chaos while all the new starters found out where the bar, sorry, Whitehall, is. It couldn't be any worse. Could it? (It's too cold & windy to have the front door open while I paint it today, so I'm checking that the internet is still running.). JH |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 10:53
RIP Labour ? - Robin O'Reliant
|
|
I can't see a hung parliament coming out of this election. The Lib Dems are riding high in a sort of X Factor way, based on Cleggs boy next door appeal in the first debate. But their support is soft and I can see it melting away as poling day gets nearer. They have no answers on the tough measures needed to deal with the economy and they are out of tune with the population when it comes to immigration and Europe, particularly the Euro. People are more astute than they are given credit for, and just as they kept voting for Thatcher bercause they knew painful reforms were nescessary back then, I think the Conservatives will be given an outright majority this time round. Last edited by: Robin Regal on Sun 2 May 10 at 10:53
|
|
New Sun 2 May 10 11:22
RIP Labour ? - Dog
|
|
The wishy washy's would do anything to get a foot-hold in number 10. They would even sign a pact with the Devil if need be, I don't trust them - one bit. The Brown vote has gone down the pan, so that only leaves ... See y'all on Friday. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 11:42
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
Interesting Hitchens article here, a slight furore it may cause. tinyurl.com/33zswby |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 11:54
RIP Labour ? - smokie
|
|
Not sure I agree with his conclusion, but it's a thought provoking article, written in a sensationalist way. Anyway, I would have thought it obvious, but a vote for Labour won't be a vote for Brown in the medium term. The Party won't let him stay on as PM with his recent record of PR disasters. I'm undecided. I agree a hung Parliament is no good but I really can't see what differentiates the rest, except the words they use. They'll all have to collect tax, deal with immigration and unemployment and do all the things a government has to do. Some methods might differ slightly and therefore seem less palatable to some people, but they are doing the same basic things in a slightly different way. A hung Parliament will end up simply being a Tory Parliament without the proper mandate. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:12
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
I really want a hung parliament and then for SteelSparks prediction of Liberals to force Prop Rep through which IMO will never happen here in the true sense of the word, it would mean Britain's rulers representing the British people..thats quite laughable. How on earth the tories ended up with blair's twin as leader i can't for the life of me fathom, i used to be a conservative voter and was indeed at one time a member of the party, i wouldn't trust them as far as i could throw them now. I'm decided by the way and it won't be for any of the three stooges in my forseeable lifetime. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:19
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
...I really want a hung parliament and then for SteelSparks prediction of Liberals to force Prop Rep... The worst possible result. With a hung parliament, even more time is spent politicking and less time running the country than is currently the case. The British people and our politicians are, obviously, not used to proportional representation and it would lead to a series of general elections as one minority/coalition government collapsed after another. A decisive result is what's required on Thursday. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:28
RIP Labour ? - Cpt. Flack
|
|
tinyurl.com/3yqb5f3 A follow on to the previous post about Peter Hichens. An eye opener to anyone floating towards the Tories. Last edited by: Cpt. Flack on Sun 2 May 10 at 12:29
|
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:40
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| Of course that's a historical report, plenty of contrary stuff about the Labour Party can be dug up as well Capt. Flack. You seem a little partisan and you postings have the flavour of a Party pamphlet- this is not a site for promoting anyone's party but debate is welcomed. |
|
New Tue 4 May 10 14:23
RIP Labour ? - Alanovich
|
|
>> A decisive result is what's required on Thursday. >> I don't agree in the slightest. Anyone getting the collywobbles about a hung parliament would be well advised to take a look at Scotland's parliament. It's quite a success despite being "hung", and implements many policies which are viewed with envy from down here in the saaaaf. Would those north of the border agree? I'd be interested to hear. It certainly doesn't seem to have "brought the country to its knees", nor produced any kind of voice for extremist minorities. I shall be voting Lib Dem (as ever), in the hope of victory, and with no fear whatsoever of a hung parliament. More than anything, I'd like to see Mr Cable in Number 11. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 12:52
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
|
Hitchins would only be happy if everyone left of Maggie Thatcher was repatriated to Moscow. THose left behind would be too liberal for him |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 13:35
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
Pinched from elsewhere, seems appropriate, by all means get rid if it's too long. While walking down the street one day a "Member of Parliament" is tragically hit by a truck and dies. His soul arrives in heaven and is met by St. Peter at the entrance. 'Welcome to heaven,' says St. Peter. 'Before you settle in, it seems there is a problem. We seldom see a high official around these parts, you see, so we're not sure what to do with you.' 'No problem, just let me in,' says the man. 'Well, I'd like to, but I have orders from higher up. What we'll do is have you spend one day in hell and one in heaven. Then you can choose where to spend eternity.' 'Really, I've made up my mind. I want to be in heaven,' says the MP. 'I'm sorry, but we have our rules.' And with that, St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. The doors open and he finds himself in the middle of a green golf course. In the distance is a clubhouse and standing in front of it are all his friends and other politicians who had worked with him. Everyone is very happy and in evening dress. They run to greet him, shake his hand, and reminisce about the good times they had while getting rich at the expense of the people. They play a friendly game of golf and then dine on lobster, caviar and champagne. Also present is the devil, who really is a very friendly & nice guy who has a good time dancing and telling jokes. They are having such a good time that before he realizes it, it is time to go. Everyone gives him a hearty farewell and waves while the elevator rises.... The elevator goes up, up, up and the door reopens on heaven where St. Peter is waiting for him. 'Now it's time to visit heaven.' So, 24 hours pass with the MP joining a group of contented souls moving from cloud to cloud, playing the harp and singing. They have a good time and, before he realizes it, the 24 hours have gone by and St. Peter returns. 'Well, then, you've spent a day in hell and another in heaven. Now choose your eternity.' The MP reflects for a minute, then he answers: 'Well, I would never have said it before, I mean heaven has been delightful, but I think I would be better off in hell.' So St. Peter escorts him to the elevator and he goes down, down, down to hell. Now the doors of the elevator open and he's in the middle of a barren land covered with waste and garbage. He sees all his friends, dressed in rags, picking up the trash and putting it in black bags as more trash falls from above. The devil comes over to him and puts his arm around his shoulder. 'I don't understand,' stammers the MP. 'Yesterday I was here and there was a golf course and clubhouse, and we ate lobster and caviar, drank champagne, and danced and had a great time. Now there's just a wasteland full of garbage and my friends look miserable. What happened? The devil looks at him, smiles and says, 'Yesterday we were campaigning.. ... Today you voted.' |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 15:47
RIP Labour ? - Stuartli
|
|
>>RIP Labour ?>> Please. Oh yes, yes please..... |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 17:36
RIP Labour ? - Dulwich Estate
|
|
Cpt. Flack, Re Gordon Brown: "Give him a chance to show his mettle for once" 10 years as chancellor and then 3 years as PM and now this unholy mess. Give him a chance ? What, after 13 years do you seriously think he'll suddenly turn around and change. Give him a chance for precisely what ? OUT ! OUT ! OUT ! |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 18:08
RIP Labour ? - ....
|
|
OK, so you get Labour out. What do you replace them with ? CMD and his "on yer bike" mates ? Labour have made an absolute mess of this but what is the alternative ? I grew up during Maggies reign in the North East and that is something I would not wish on anyone either. Alternatives please ? Last edited by: gmac on Sun 2 May 10 at 18:11
|
|
New Sun 2 May 10 18:23
RIP Labour ? - Robin O'Reliant
|
|
>> Alternatives please ? >> Someone who understands a basic financial truth. If you keep spending more than you earn, you will end up deep in doggy-doo. I twigged that one when I started getting pocket money. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 19:02
RIP Labour ? - ....
|
|
>> >> Alternatives please ? >> >> >> Someone who understands a basic financial truth. >> And that someone is ? |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 19:14
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
>> And that someone is ? >> Possibly someone thats held down a proper job, and not just managed to successfully to milk the expenses cow. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 19:15
RIP Labour ? - ....
|
|
Come on folks, someone please write CMD and give us all a laugh !
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 2 May 10 at 19:15
|
|
New Mon 3 May 10 15:28
RIP Labour ? - Tooslow
|
|
g " I grew up during Maggies reign in the North East" - so did I. And before Maggie came along I was working for a nationalised industry. Which existed, as far as I could see, to allow the management and unions to play football with the the workers. That was no way to carry on, as was shown when Dennis had to call in the IMF. Granted I had to become an economic refugee but I did ok thanks to Maggie and her ideas. JH |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 19:37
RIP Labour ? - Cpt. Flack
|
|
In response to Dulwich Estate. Isn't that where Maggie used to live? If it hadn't been for the sub prime fiasco, this and other countries wouldn't be in the mess it created. I'm sure any colour of government would have had to handle the crisis in the same way. Just because Labour was at the helm, shouldn't be enough to punish GB or Labour. They have gently seen us through so far, and I'm convinced they are best placed here, in Europe and worldwide to get the country fully on course for recovery. Your alternatives will create a bigger mess. You reap what you sow. Carry on and vote in the Tories. Hope you're not a pensioner. You'll lose your winter fuel allowance and your free telly licence under them. Last edited by: Cpt. Flack on Sun 2 May 10 at 19:38
|
|
New Sun 2 May 10 20:01
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
|
shouldn't be enough to punish GB or Labour. er.....Mansion House Speech June 2006 - Gordo was kow towing to the Bankers in his speech "Many have advised me, including not a few newspapers, favoured a regulatory crackdown, I believe we were right not to go down that road" Much as Gordo and Mandy want to alter history and much as he denied it (feebly) in the Paxo interview....he messed up big style. At least what he sowed was reaped when he was in power and he only had himself to blame - but he isn't going to do that is he ? - After all he saved the world. Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 2 May 10 at 20:03
|
|
New Sun 2 May 10 23:05
RIP Labour ? - Dulwich Estate
|
|
"Hope you're not a pensioner. You'll lose your winter fuel allowance and your free telly licence under them" I will be one very soon. Unlike the simpletons I can see a bit beyond this feeble argument. It's the country I'm bothered about and our futures for maybe 10 - 20 years - not a just a few quid less in my pocket for a while. As for "on yer bike" - Norman you were so right. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 08:51
RIP Labour ? - Dog
|
|
>>As for "on yer bike" - Norman you were so right. << Once upon a time, long long ago, there lived a Dog in a one bedroom council flat in South London. Along came Maggie & Norman and said "buy your council flat, start your own business" And he lived yappylie ever after, in a 3 bedroom detached house in Cornwall. Fortune favours the brave and ya don't get owt for nowt. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 08:55
RIP Labour ? - MrTee43
|
|
"ya don't get owt for nowt." But don't forget " thas nowt so queer as folk" Eee bah gum. |
|
New Sun 2 May 10 23:01
RIP Labour ? - Dave_
|
|
>> The wishy washy's would do anything to get a foot-hold in number 10. >> They would even sign a pact with the Devil if need be, I don't trust them - one bit. >> The Brown vote has gone down the pan, so that only leaves ... I'm with you, Dog. Always been a floating voter, live in a marginal constituency, can't see a future for Labour, Lib-Dems haven't got the whole picture and as for the BNP... Which only leaves the Tory candidate, who looks fairly likely to get in around here anyway. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 18:23
RIP Labour ? - RattleandSmoke
|
|
In my ward the tories have got a 1% of winning. They are so unpopular they do not even bother to campaign. Nobody even knows who the tory candidates are round here. It is looking like Lib dem will win here. When they won in 2005 it was a massive shock as labour always wins here. In fact the chance of lib dem winning was about 3% so who knows what surprises the election will bring. Thankfully no BNP where I am :). |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 18:29
RIP Labour ? - The Melting Snowman
|
|
No, they will bounce back. People said the same in 1997 when the Tories got a pasting. I think it's time for Brown to go but I suspect the euphoria will be short-lived. I can't see Cameron doing any better - where's the wealth coming from? North sea oil in decline, manufacturing will take years to build up to fill the gap left by the dangerous over-reliance on the City. I predict a Tory majority of between 30 and 40 seats. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 18:34
RIP Labour ? - RattleandSmoke
|
|
I predict a riot! Should be used as the official election swan song! I just cannot see the tories winning the election because they are so deeply unpopular in certain parts of the UK. However labour are more unpopular. I thing we will end up with a hung parliament. The UK needs more support for small businesses, at the moment it is very hard to access good free support. Labour saw to that. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 18:37
RIP Labour ? - Mapmaker
|
|
Capt Flack is Peter Mandelson and I claim my fiver. Zero wrote>>As chancelor, GB has been fortunate to ride a 10 year wave of growth, that >>was mainly fuelled by Tory deregulation. Nonsense! The "growth" was fuelled by Government and individual borrowing on the back of interest rates that were set too low because the Government gave the Bank of England the wrong criteria for judging inflation. There will be no euphoria, whoever wins on Thursday. Cleaning up the mess will be painful. Interest rates are heading towards 10%; house prices are going to drop 50% in real terms; we are going to have 50% inflation over the next five or so years; 1m-2m public sector employees are going to lose their jobs. This is going to be a double dip recession whoever takes the reins, the second dip much deeper than the first. And if the Tories don't end up in charge, the Lib-Lab pact will disintegrate long before they get onto PR - there will be no free parliamentary time with the economic crisis to introduce PR. Don't worry. I don't think there will be a hung parliament; only 20% of the electorate think it a good idea; I'd rather vote Labour than for those socialist Liberals. I was canvassing yesterday, in Islington. At the last election the result was approx Lab 11k, Lib 10.5k, Tory 6k. I'd guess 3k of the Lib votes were Tories voting "tactically". I'd guess 1k of the Lab votes were Tories voting tactically. If they'd all voted Tory instead of tactically, the Tories would have won. We don't need the Liberal party in the UK; they serve no purpose. Last edited by: Mapmaker on Mon 3 May 10 at 18:42
|
|
New Mon 3 May 10 19:11
RIP Labour ? - BobbyG
|
|
If labour get in, they will continue to do what they think is right to rebuild the country. If anyone else gets in, they will all bin their manifestos and do whatever they want and claim they need to do this to repair the damage from labour and "don't blame us". For the next umpteen years we will get claims that whatever tax rises there are etc, it is all to repair the damage from Labour's years in power. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 19:38
RIP Labour ? - Tooslow
|
|
Bobby, labour are still blaming "the previous government" which, strictly speaking, is true as they are the previous government. 13 years on and they're still blaming the tories. JH |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 20:21
RIP Labour ? - Robin O'Reliant
|
| Labour are still blaming Thatcher - the person who cleared up the mess they got us into during their previous stint in office. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 20:39
RIP Labour ? - Mapmaker
|
|
>>For the next umpteen years we will get claims that whatever tax rises there are etc, it is >>all to repair the damage from Labour's years in power. Because, BoobyG, it WILL be. Or do you think that this country is in fine fettle currently? Have you not noticed that the national debt is rising by £0.5bn EVERY DAY! |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 20:54
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
To be quite honest i doubt many of us will still be living before the wreckage that is the UK economy gets anywhere near stable, let alone back to manageable figures. It won't make a jot of difference who holds the keys to No 10 either, anyone who thinks the cameroon is going to lead a real conservative govt is in for a big disappointment. The next 10 years should be interesting. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:09
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
|
>> If labour get in they will continue to do what they think is right to >> rebuild the country. Nope sorry mate, they have had 13 years to rebuild the country, and all we have had is the growth of NHS managers. Anyway labour will have to ditch its maifesto as well, because they cant afford it. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:21
RIP Labour ? - SteelSpark
|
|
Here's another scenario, around the subject of a hung parliament. Even though Labour are trailing quite badly in the polls, they probably wouldn't be that far behind the Tories in terms of seats. So, rather than trying to form a government, I wonder if they would try for another election, but replace Brown. I think that, rightly or wrongly, Brown is deeply unpopular and that perhaps the Tories are no more credible than Labour in the eyes of many people, so the personality of the leader could make a big difference. Some might say that Labour should have dropped Brown before going into this election, but perhaps he will be forced to step down if they don't lose my too much, so that there would be a possibility of winning without him. Of course, there is the question of who could replace him. Not suggesting him as a successor, but I did think that Jack Straw had his eye on the job a few years back, when he switched from glasses to contacts! :) |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:25
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| Jack Straw has always been a steady hand (although the odd off-message quip now and again) he has the moral and intellectual authority for the international stage. The other thought I had today was Mandy - He's in the Lords I know but I wonder if there is a constitutional bar to him running for PM ? It's what he always wanted..... |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:30
RIP Labour ? - Tooslow
|
|
Did you see Jack Straw in front of the Iraq inquiry!? He couldn't give a straight answer if you applied thumbscrews! (though it may be worth testing that theory). As for Mandy, the frightening thing is that, while I trust him as far as I can throw him, he might be just the man. What about Boris if we're talking coups? What do you Londoners make of him? JH |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 23:43
RIP Labour ? - Stuartli
|
|
>>As for Mandy, the frightening thing is that, while I trust him as far as I can throw him, he might be just the man>> Boris, despite the perceived image, is a very clever and well educated individual. Perhaps this is a bit of mischief making: tinyurl.com/3xsm65x |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:32
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
...He's in the Lords I know but I wonder if there is a constitutional bar to him running for PM ?... I suspect not. There's no bar to a peer being in the cabinet, so I can't see why, if a peer can be a minister, he can't be prime minister. In recent times. the prime minister has been a member of the House of Commons. It's what the country now expects and that may be why a member of the House of Lords will not be put forward as prime minister. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:48
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| Iffy the man is totally ruthless - add ambition into the mix and anything can happen. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:53
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
...Iffy the man is totally ruthless... I get the impression he is also quite well-liked by the troops. So finding a safe Labour seat would be easy enough for him if it smoothed the way to 'Premier Mandelson'. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:56
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| That was part of my musing today - they must be having the same conversations in the Labour party and odd that he Mandy wasn't slotted into some safe seat - evil eyes, check them out next time he's hovering in the background. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:52
RIP Labour ? - MrTee43
|
|
Mandleson is a prostitute. He will sell himself to anyone for the right price. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:54
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
|
He has mentioned that he would be prepared to work for Cameron. Straw and the Iraq enquiry - yes I'd forgotten about that Rank Closing incident. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 22:51
RIP Labour ? - John H
|
|
>> >> Straw and the Iraq enquiry - yes I'd forgotten about that Rank Closing incident. >> October 2006 " ... he revealed that he asks Muslim women to remove their veils during meetings. Mr Straw said he invites the women to take their veils off when they visit his constituency because he feels 'uncomfortable' about talking with someone whose face he cannot see. The Blackburn MP, who represents large numbers of Muslims, warned that the full veil - know as a niqab - was a 'visible statement of separation and difference.' He added that it 'was bound to make better, positive relations between the two communities more difficult.' " April 2010 " He told a packed hall of local Muslim residents: 'To be blunt, if I had realised the scale of publicity that they [his comments] received in October 2006, I wouldn’t have made them and I am sorry that it has caused problems and I offer that apology. 'Can I just say, this is about an issue of communication [you understand]. I wasn’t raising it to say it [the burkha] should be banned - quite the opposite.' He added: 'I wouldn’t dream of treating them other than with respect and I think they know from me that I do give them respect and I give them as much help as I give anybody else whatever their faith. And I am really glad to have had that opportunity to clear that up.' " |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 23:48
RIP Labour ? - Stuartli
|
|
>>He will sell himself to anyone for the right price. >> Such people always look after number one. If the Tories ever embraced him (not that they would), as suggested, I for one would never vote again nor, I suspect, would many, many thousands of others. |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 21:58
RIP Labour ? - Bromptonaut
|
|
I don't think he could be PM in the Lords. That hurdle helped Churchill at the expense of Lord Halifax 70 years ago. However, I don't think there's any longer a bar to him renouncing his Life Peerage and being parachuted into a safe seat. Thougt the possibilty of a Patrick Gordon Walker type scenario might just deter!! |
|
New Mon 3 May 10 23:40
RIP Labour ? - Stuartli
|
|
>>Jack Straw has always been a steady hand (although the odd off-message quip now and again) he has the moral and intellectual authority for the international stage.>> You jest, of course...:-) |
|
New Tue 4 May 10 07:53
RIP Labour ? - Buddy
|
|
I do hope this once great party dies, or at least lays low for a generation. Even if I could forgive them for the mess they've made of the economy (and I can't), I could never forgive the sinister and ever increasing interference by Government in almost every aspect of our daily lives, e.g. via town hall snooping, 'elf & safety and spy cameras. In three words, Gordon, you have managed to instal: Too Much Government. Go, and be ashamed - although I doubt you ever will. |
|
New Tue 4 May 10 14:30
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| Ha - just remembered a quote from a past election LibDem leader "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government" |
|
New Tue 4 May 10 14:37
RIP Labour ? - Alanovich
|
|
That's a past SDP/Liberal Alliance leader, PU. It's a rather different party now. My instinct is to support the underdog (comes from a life of supporting Fulham FC, which has just spectacularly paid off), they have nothing to lose and no vested interest to defend. I wonder what odds I'd get on a Lib Dem general election win/Fulham Europa League win double? And I wonder if the men in white coats would drag me out of the bookies? |
|
New Tue 4 May 10 16:21
RIP Labour ? - Dog
|
|
Let's see how long this stays up, it belongs to this thread really ~ www.youtube.com/watch?v=-58-36lSqG4 Come wit it now! Come wit it now! The microphone explodes, shattering the molds .******* Wit tha sure shot, sure ta make tha bodies drop Drop an don't copy yo, don't call this a co-opt Terror rains drenchin', quenchin' tha thirst of tha power dons That five sided fist-a-gon Tha rotten sore on tha face of mother earth gets bigger Tha triggers cold now empty ya purse they rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal I walk tha corner to tha rubble that used to be a library Linin' to the mind cemetery now What we don't know keeps tha contracts alive an movin' They don't gotta burn tha books they just remove 'em While arms warehouses fill as quick as tha cells Rally round tha family, pockets full of shells Rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells They rally round tha family! With a pocket full of shells Bulls on parade! Bulls on parade! Bulls on parade! Bulls on parade! Bulls on parade! |
|
New Tue 4 May 10 19:14
RIP Labour ? - Tooslow
|
|
Is it all over yet? Is it safe to come out? Who won? Or is it a draw? Or do the Chinese own the country? JH. |
|
New Wed 5 May 10 10:46
RIP Labour ? - Dog
|
|
Which Dog will you be voting for ~ www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/7563608/General-election-2010-in-pictures.html Dog. |
|
New Wed 5 May 10 16:49
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
>> Which Dog will you be voting for ~ Slippery looking things those three. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 13:22
RIP Labour ? - Snakey
|
|
I live in the north east as well and I'm still amazed by the 'Maggie-factor' I mean, how long ago was this? And labour have done much worse since they got in. The attitude of the north east that 'Labour is for the working man' seems to be about 100 years out of date. Labour have hammered the low earners as vigorously as anyone else. Whatever party you vote for, labour need to be kicked out for the damage they've wreaked across the country. If nothing else its a warning to the next government |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 13:25
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
| Dont blame Maggie. Blame Arthur Scargill. He was resonsible for the demise of the unions in the UK due to his blind stupidity and inability to think outside cliches. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 13:28
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
This message has been hidden as many of our users have rated it as offensive. You may view it by clicking here ...Dont blame Maggie. Blame Arthur Scargill...
The pair of them could have done with having their heads banged together... ...in the hope Scargill would suffer a snip Last edited by: Pugugly on Thu 6 May 10 at 15:18
|
|
New Thu 6 May 10 15:44
RIP Labour ? - -
|
|
>> Dont blame Maggie. Blame Arthur Scargill. I blame the pair of them, we can't find middle ground in this country we lurch from one extreme to another, knee jerk reactions to what was before. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 17:09
RIP Labour ? - Pat
|
|
Iffy what are you doing? I never thought I'd see you get a message hidden. If we all give him a thumbs up will it bring it back again:) Pat |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 17:40
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
| he said he hoped Scargill got a brain heamorage I seem to recall. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 17:46
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
...he said he hoped Scargill got a brain heamorage I seem to recall... Something like that. If I understand the system correctly, a lot of people must have been offended to get it hidden, but the message can still be viewed by clicking on the 'here' link, Seems reasonable. Ah, I see the hidden version has been snipped as well. Another storm, another teacup. Last edited by: ifithelps on Thu 6 May 10 at 17:48
|
|
New Thu 6 May 10 18:33
RIP Labour ? - R.P.
|
| It was blocked by a number of users I snipped it as a result of a complaint which I feel was fair - don't worry about it....this thread would never have existed in a previous life. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 18:42
RIP Labour ? - John H
|
|
>> It was blocked by a number of users I snipped it as a result of >> a complaint which I feel was fair - don't worry about it....this thread would never >> have existed in a previous life. >> But this is not previous life and the forum is supposed to be self moderating. Give up the old habits, man, time to put away your trigger happy scissors. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 18:50
RIP Labour ? - Zero
|
| never mind, we got the sentiment in through the back door! |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 19:14
RIP Labour ? - VxFan
|
|
>> But this is not previous life and the forum is supposed to be self moderating. To a point. But when a report (or several reports) also come through by email where people feel it necessary to highlight it to us, then we may well take the scissors to it. Mind you, PU's edit now makes it read that Arthur Scargill has had a vasectomy. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 19:19
RIP Labour ? - Robin O'Reliant
|
|
>>>> Mind you PU's edit now makes it read that Arthur Scargill has had a vasectomy. >> Pity his dad hadn't. |
|
New Thu 6 May 10 19:23
RIP Labour ? - Iffy
|
|
...Pity his dad hadn't... Careful, Robin, there will be lots of emails from offended people. |
Forum Version 3.0 - By Khoosys
Car4play Forum
