It's been a while since I had one of these, but rashly took the plunge recently when it seemed that a summer was in the offing.
The barbecue has a flexible tube that ends in a regulator which has a "female" connector which should obviously snap on to some suitable "male" thing on the bottle. So far, so familiar.
However, the tap on the bottle has an outlet which is also "female", with a screw thread inside it. A connection is impossible.
The barbecue requires propane and the cylinder is labeled propane and coloured red. I remember the last time I did this sort of thing, it was propane but the bottle was blue.
Two questions: is there something missing from the gas bottle? Or have I got the wrong type of bottle?
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I understand what you are having difficulty with, its a matter of having the right regulator for the bottle. Different bottle supplies have different regulators. Likewise you could use either propane or butane on the barbie but again they are different regulators. You have a red bottle, which will be propane, but the fitting will not take a quick release fitting. You will need a screw in regulator (LH thread) with an outlet to slip and clip your flexible pipe onto.
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Probably the best place for a choice of supplies/regulators etc and advice will be a local caravan supplies shop. But be prepared to be ripped off.
Be aware that IIRC that Propane and Butane connectors have opposite (turn) threads in the UK for screw connectors.
The Gas supply marketing game is all about 'Lock in' . Exploit the special offers to get the a low(nil?) deposit bottle/adapter and you then are a 'committed' to that supplier which may not have a very local outlet. Unless you want a row of of incompatible bottles at the bottom of the garden you may decide to use a well known brand.
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Just to wrap this up, so people know what the outcome was.
Fullchat is indeed correct in that there seems to be no adaptor to enable a snap-on connector to be used with a red propane gas bottle - you have to buy a screw-in regulator, which I have now ordered from Amazon at a cost of £6.96 including postage.
It seems that the person who served me at the garden centre where I bought the bottle was at fault, however, in that I clearly told him I had a barbecue that I wished to use with propane. He should have supplied patio gas in a green bottle, which apparently has a snap-on connection in place.
I think I'll stick with the red bottle, as it seems green bottle propane is dearer kilo for kilo than red bottle propane.
Thanks for the input, folks. Just waiting for my new regulator and for summer to start...
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Stick ya post code in ere and pay a visit to your local supplier: www.flogas.co.uk/32/flogas-stockists
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What the Gits appear to have done in recent years is to introduce 'Patio Gas'. I kid you not, usually in a green bottle (I think) with a snap on type of regulator. All designed to remove you from your hard earned. I just cut off their regulator and bin it and fit a proper one and use propane. Burns hotter than Butane.
Also see Dog's link above.
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...propane. Burns hotter than Butane...
Opinions on this vary, but a gas supplier told me it's true.
He also said using propane on a butane appliance is dodgy because the butane burners are not designed to take the extra heat and can melt.
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A bit of Googling gives the following, which is easier than posting my own version:)
"However, propane has a lower boiling point down to -45 C than butane which has the lower vapour pressure at equivalent temperatures and is suitable for interior use only. Therefore propane will continue to convert from a liquid to a gas even in very cold conditions. When stored as a liquid in a tank, propane exerts a greater pressure than butane at the same temperature. Propane is most suitable for exterior storage and use. Its ability to operate in low temperatures makes it suitable as a fuel for many applications. (Source NAT-GAZ)
It is certainly possible to use either/both in many applications, particularly ordinary cooking stoves and camping bits and bobs. Using butane will often be very disappointing when the user has previously used propane in the same application. This is due to the lower pressure and (consequential) lower heat output by butane. Perhaps the most significant difference for the average user is that butane is usually significantly cheaper. "
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...However, propane has a lower boiling point down to -45 C than butane...
Propane at my caravan, stored outside.
In very cold conditions it can 'freeze', or more accurately, refuse to vaporise, meaning no gas comes out of the bottles.
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Butane would be even worse!
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>> ...However, propane has a lower boiling point down to -45 C than butane...
>> Propane at my caravan, stored outside.
>> In very cold conditions it can 'freeze', or more accurately, refuse to vaporise, meaning no
>> gas comes out of the bottles.
Are you sure Iffy? I know it's cold oop north, but -45 C?
I know some caravanners convert to propane if they're the all seasons sort, but I thought they have to change the jets in any appliances.
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...Are you sure Iffy? I know it's cold oop north, but -45 C?...
I suspect what happens is the gas fails to boil fast enough when it's very cold, so some does come out, but not at sufficient pressure to provide a fast enough flow/enough pressure to the appliances.
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>> I suspect what happens is the gas fails to boil fast enough when it's very
>> cold, so some does come out, but not at sufficient pressure to provide a fast
>> enough flow/enough pressure to the appliances.
That's certainly the case with butane, particularly on small cylinders. Even at french night time summer temperatures a C206 powered lamp struggles. Evaporation cools the cylinder which cannot take up heat quicky enough to maintain equilibrium.
Modern CV470 cylinders which are larger and contain a butane/propane mix are more effective.
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>> Are you sure Iffy? I know it's cold oop north, but -45 C?
>>
>> I know some caravanners convert to propane if they're the all seasons sort, but I
>> thought they have to change the jets in any appliances.
Interesting one this. To some of us anyway. It doesn't need to be anywhere near -45 ambient tp cause a problem. A few years ago we had an event in a tent, in May, and it was a bitterly cold night with a frost. But not -45, maybe -3 or -4.
The fairly big Calor bottle was outside the tent, which didn't help, but it worked fine for an hour or two. Then it dropped to a splutter.
On investigation, the bottle was blisteringly cold and had a thick layer of frost on it. Clearly the high rate of evaporation had cooled the bottle to just above the boiling point of the liquid gas before reaching some sort of equilibrium. At this point, even bringing the bottle inside was futile. A natural instinct is to insulate the bottle at the start, but of course if the draw off rate is very high that can make things worse by preventing the bottle drawing heat from the surroundings.
We used to use butane for an event in December, where we had a hob for making mulled wine. We had to convert to propane in the end. Even at a few degrees above zero, the bottle soon reached -4 at which butane boils, and the flames diminished almost to nothing.
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>> Interesting one this. To some of us anyway. It doesn't need to be anywhere near
>> -45 ambient tp cause a problem. A few years ago we had an event in
>> a tent, in May, and it was a bitterly cold night with a frost. But
>> not -45, maybe -3 or -4.
>>
>> The fairly big Calor bottle was outside the tent, which didn't help, but it worked
>> fine for an hour or two. Then it dropped to a splutter.
IIRC hot air balloons use propane cylinders that discharge the liquid into a pressure proof system Evaporation takes place in coils that surround the burners.
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That sounds about right. I hadn't given it a thought despite having had several flights, and seeing the coils, which are heated by the flame. Too excited about the flying I suppose.
It wouldn't do to have your balloon gas "freezing" would it?
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My experience at the caravan is a sharp frost is OK, but performance suffers if it gets near to around minus double figures centigrade.
Those with bottles will have gathered the frost on the bottle corresponds with the level of the gas, so at least you know how much is there, even if you can't use it.
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Standing the bottle in a bath of cold water will provide enough warmth to get the gas to evaporate at least for a while.
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The comprehensive replies already posted in this thread prove that campers are up and out of bed before most of us.
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>> The comprehensive replies already posted in this thread prove that campers are up and out
>> of bed before most of us.
>>
>>
Not suprised. Camp beds are cold and uncomfortable.
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>> The comprehensive replies already posted in this thread prove that campers are up and out
>> of bed before most of us.
>>
>>
>>
or just in a different time zone :)
(and the sun is out, the sky is blue.....................................)
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If you have the red calor propane, order one of these - I assume the red Flogas bottle has the same fitting, but I've never had one.
goo.gl/YyKAJ
with a rubber bullnose and a handwheel. The brass bullnose is more durable but these are handy. Just be aware that if you leave the uncovered regulator dangling from the barbecue outdoors in all weathers, the rubber will crack and lose its virtue. Wrap in a plastic bag secured with an elastic band.
As per Martin's post, I use one of these in place of the patio gas reg I cut off the barbie so I only need one sort of gas bottle. I think the patio gas in green bottles is propane anyway.
Last edited by: Manatee on Fri 15 Jun 12 at 08:30
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tis propane, but the expensive variety (0:-:0)
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Why bother with a connector? - a chap took over an allotment on our plotments, and found a half-empty calor-gas bottle in the shed, he just used to crack-open the tap on the top and light it! used to sip his mug o tea and warm his feet at the same time! - nobody ever sat and chatted with him for long tho` ;-)
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As the gas evaporates the container gets even colder. Blowlamping in cold weather you need to hold the canister with your bare hands to warm it up a bit. You can see the instant difference it makes, until your hands freeze too.
LPG (propane) in cars has to be vapourised in a water-heated device otherwise it will ice up.
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Gas barbecue - can't connect to the cylinder - Fullchat
