From the DT.
Children will be introduced to times tables, mental arithmetic and fractions in the first two years of school as part of a back-to-basics overhaul of the National Curriculum.
It puzzles me why we ever moved away from basics.
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What time do you get your paper Martin?
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I heard some news reports. Learning poems off by heart and this nonsense of phonetic spelling being dropped. Education has been dumbed down to the ability of the lowest common denominator - I realized this when I went on the Census courses. There were some right thick Herberts there (very small minority, most were retired professionals.) and the training was embarrassingly simplified to "reach" them, much to the frustration of the tutors that had been employed.
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Rob, the learning of (proper) poems by heart is good for children and will help with tables too. The ability to memorise is much underrated! Starting with nursery rhymes, by ten they should be able to recite quite complicated work.
I regret bitterly being educated in the primary system at a time it was not fashionable to learn poetry or tables.
The daughter teaches year one this year, but in a private school. She had to reluctantly leave the state system after one year as she could not get a job - positive discrimination meant that top, relevant qualifications and references were worth nothing versus being male..... She teaches tables and poetry to five year olds and is annoyed that reception do not teach cursive script as they then have to re-learn when they come to her... that will change as she has just been appointed head of lower school.
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removed at the request of the author
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 14 Jun 12 at 10:21
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I learned the alphabet and some times tables at nursery school, making me literate and numerate by the time I was four - or should that be for, or fore? :)
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I am from the Manchester education system. I learnt my times tables when I was 15 :D.
The idea of teaching English was to what videos. We never read any Shakespeare all we did was watch the films.
Still I try not to let that hold me back. That said my sister has A level maths etc grade A, I barely have a GCSE in yet but when it comes to adding things up in a shop or working sums out quickly I am a lot faster than she is. I can also understand things like Huffman encoding so I am sure I would be capable of getting much better grade.
I do think the primary education has improved a lot since I was there during the 80's and early 90's though.
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I read somewhere that with divergent thinking tests 98% of 3-5 year olds are genius level. By the time they've finished normal education it's fallen to 10% or so. Education is aimed at the lowest common denominator, too many people are being sent to higher education so they have to dumb that down. Not only do they dumb it down they also make sure passing is even easier so a first is now given out so often it is meaningless.
Kruger and Dunning is very enlightening reading on the whole area...basically a lot of people are thick and they don't know it. They seem to be in charge which is why the whole country is in such a mess...
I remember times tables when I was small. I could already read a bit before I went to school. Glad I did as they used some stupid method to 'help' with reading that made it harder. I ignored them and stuck to what my mum had taught me. First run in with authority :) I also remember how utterly boring the 'wide range reader' books were. Being forced to work your way through all of them before you were allowed proper books was frustrating.
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I remember when I was about 9 or 10 getting all my maths work marked as incorrect because the supply teacher didn't like how I'd worked it all out. I was doing how I'd been taught by our usual teacher. Well I wasn't going to let her get away with that - so happened to mention it to the head teacher who got the supply teacher to remark all my work as correct :-)
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Teabelly I can assure you it is still very very difficult to get a 1st. I got a 2:1 and was 1.5% off getting a first. My tutor said to me I would have had to do about a month extra of solid work to have got a 1st instead of a 2:1.
My ex got a 2:1 and she was just 0.1% of getting a first! Ouch she was in tears over that, but the university stood their ground and said they could not round it up due to standards.
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Look at the proportion of students gaining firsts compared to those that did in the 60s, 70s, 80s etc. That's the dead give away...
www.telegraph.co.uk/education/universityeducation/9011098/Warning-over-grade-inflation-as-first-class-degrees-double.html
It's doubled since the 90s.
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Last edited by: Focus on Mon 11 Jun 12 at 12:45
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A Level questions from 20 years ago would now be considered hard in a degree exam paper
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I got a first in MEng Chemical Engineering and Biotechnology from UMIST as was in 1997. Must have been easy, as everyone on my course got one!*
* of the 20 people that started only 2 of us graduated - and I was bottom of the class !
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As a father of two primary school aged girls, I feel the regular kicking meted out to the education system and teachers is not only unhelpful, but somewhat misses the real problem.
My daughters, and most of their peers based on those parents we are friendly with, are having a generally auspicious start to their academic career. Despite the handicap of these evil "new fangled" teaching methods, my 5 year old daughter is quite capable of reading and understanding simple story books, as well as counting to a hundred and performing basic arithmetic. My 7 year old likes nothing more (well, godawful kids TV aside) than to kick back with her Kindle, and is currently 2/3 of the way through Enid Blyton's The Faraway Tree which she is reading unassisted. She loves to tell us what is happening and discuss the unfolding plot with us. The school is encouraging and developing their skills nicely. But the school cannot do this without parental support, and I think this is what's lacking nowadays.
A big part of the problem in my opinion is that too many parents now think that school is everything required to give their kids an education. People don't read with their kids. They don't ask them challenging questions, or debate even simple things with them to help develop their reasoning and questioning skills. They drop them off at 8:45, pick them up at 3, and think that's the sum total of their responsibility where their children's educational needs are concerned. So many we know are not made to do homework, or to read. The attitude that "kids should be allowed to do what they like outside school" is very prevalent in modern society.
The education system is not infallible, and it relies on parents to keep their kids minds active and challenged, albeit in a far less formal way than in the classroom, when they are not in school. We have a good relationship with both our kids teachers, plus my mother is also a teacher. All say the same thing. They can tell within the first morning of teaching a new class which children's parents give a toss about their kids education, and which don't. And they have to work with what they have.
I don't doubt there are poor schools and teachers, and of course the curriculum isn't perfect, but if children were parented properly, and encouraged to learn and think outside of the classroom, I suspect it would put quite a dent in the problem.
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Oh, and I would defend phonics to the hilt. Fantastic system which is both effective, and enjoyable for kids to learn.
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>> Oh, and I would defend phonics to the hilt. Fantastic system which is both effective,
>> and enjoyable for kids to learn.
Phonics work for some. Others recognise whole words and rarely need to break down into constituent sounds. Any teacher from thirty years ago could have told government that free, gratis and for nothing. Mix and match according to the child's aptitudes.
But what does professional experience count against a press campaign?
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Post removed at poster's request
Last edited by: R.P. on Thu 14 Jun 12 at 07:43
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Political correctness is one modern doctrine that I don't subscribe to.
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>> I thought that calling children "kids" was politically incorrect,
Who gives a flying ****
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RUDE WORDS, WestPig... (though the average kid these days probably has a bluer vocabulary than I do!)
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>> RUDE WORDS, WestPig...
You are right of course, probably worth an apology to anyone offended. Trouble is I hate political correctness with a vengeance...it's a modern scourge.
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>> >> RUDE WORDS, WestPig...
>>
>> You are right of course, probably worth an apology to anyone offended. Trouble is
>> I hate political correctness with a vengeance...it's a modern scourge.
>>
Yep - you can't call a spade a spade any more!
My mate who came back from Britain last week tells me the same - there's so much PC that nobody can do anything without risking offending anyone, so everything they write/say/do has to be vetted in case they cross the line.
(Though he did admit that he was in the wrong for referring to a certain female Tory Peer as a 'currymuncher')
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Is Co-ons acceptable?
My Mate from Royal Berkshire says it is.....
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>> Is Co-ons acceptable?
>>
>> My Mate from Royal Berkshire says it is.....
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Mmmm. Here its is 'previously disadvantaged'. Or 'indigenous'.
Unfortunately, the PC stupidity takes over - one can't say "Black" in a crime report - it has to be "had a dark complexion"... even when they show a photofit of a chap with "Thick lips and curly black hair" (TM Constable savage, NTNON, 1980)
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>> Is Co-ons acceptable?
>>
>> My Mate from Royal Berkshire says it is.....
Not in my world it isn't. Describing a dark skinned person in those terms would be a sacking offence.
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On a serious note..............and I mean serious, years ago we played Rugby and got on the P*** on a regular basis and had black folk at school and in Rugger. One fella who played Rugby, an Indian, became known as Jack the P**. Lovely bloke, lovely family, huge band of big brothers who could have probably taken us Honky's out, but we all got on so well and took the 'P' as you do and life was good. I have mentioned here before how we would protect him from the brain dead haters. Warren Mitchell aka Alf Garnett was in full swing too. If the detractors care to examine those programmes then one will see that for all of the micky taking of the coloured folk the White man always ended up with the egg on his face and it was (and still is) hilarious if taken for what it is worth. The only comedy worth a Fig is factual, observational comedy and it was priceless. Does anyone ever look at these programmes (including Love Thy Neighbour) and listen to what the B man says about the W man. Equally funny. Did we moan. No, we just muddled along and had a laugh. A credit to the brains of the writers methinks. This world is a much sadder place for all this politically correct crap.
Blue Mink. Melting Pot. I am 54.5 YO Come on Popsters. How old was I when this came out? Perhaps the Powers (sic) that be should stand up for once and take note.
Rant (probably) not over.
MD.
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Blue Mink. Melting Pot. I am 54.5 YO Come on Popsters. How old was I when this came out?"
Was it 1970? Made you 12 then (I was a bit older - well, about 10 years older if you insist!)
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>> I thought that calling children "kids" was politically incorrect, or whatever, nowadays. Kids are the
>> offspring of goats.
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Whoever marked Les down for this needs a serious rethink.
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>> Whoever marked Les down for this needs a serious rethink.
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That was me Martin.
I cannot abide political correctness and see it as a tool that some use to stifle debate and put others in their place. Usually so that their viewpoint comes to the fore.
I see no reason why anyone shouldn't use the wholly innocent term 'kids', I have two myself.
I have nothing against snaily and if he were posting in jest, I missed the point, which can easily happen in a virtual pub, you can't notice the smile or wink etc.
My scowly face is directed at a post inferring political correctness. It offends me, greatly.
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DP - I agree wholehartedly with your comments abot education continuing in the home.
My eldest daughter struggles at school and is borderline special needs. The problem she has is that she is very bright in areas that interest here such as nature, and the outside world and is often head and shoulders above some of her more sheltered peers, but struggles with reading and writing.
She is in that difficult area where she if failing, but not badly enough to get extra help. We are lucky in that the school is very good, and although they have no specific funding for her she gets a lot of extra help, and they also work hard to keep her engaged, so as a result she still enjoys school even though she is aware that she finds it hard.
We also spend quite a lot of time doing extra work with her at home, and it was quite nice that at the last parents evening her teacher told us it was clear that we were doing work with her outside of school and they can see the benfits in school.
I see our families relationship with the school as a partnership, but I fear many parents see it as nothing more than free childcare
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Westy. No offence intended, but my stance remains. 'They' are Children. That is the term. Kids isn't even an abbreviation.
Indulge me. A local hostelry that thinks it can 'do' Italian cuisine writes a new menu. For Menu read list. TBF the food is basic, very basic, but OK. On this menu they decide after expounding their food, to add the terms.....Pub Grub and Kids Menu. They ask me my opinion. Why I say have you cheapened it?
Keep standards up. Aim for 110%, Achieve 90%. Result.
Aim for shruggy shoulders and 75% and you achieve 50%. Result..........Failure.
Oh! And PC can get Stuffed too. It's just a joke.
Last edited by: Martin Devon on Tue 12 Jun 12 at 22:06
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>> Westy. No offence intended, but my stance remains. 'They' are Children. That is the term.
>> Kids isn't even an abbreviation.
>>
Yet you have no problem earlier in this thread using an informal (and/or slang) word which means "extremely offensive name for a Black person".
Kids is a long accepted informal word to mean a child or young person, I kid you not. Our kid in Liverpool will confirm it for you.
;-)
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John, it wasn't that is was not a problem, I simply asked if it was acceptable and I think most people missed the 'humour'. If you can't use the full word then is Co ons, as in co and on acceptable. Oh! never mind. (0:-:0)
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removed at the request of the author
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 14 Jun 12 at 10:21
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Kids is pretty well universal in Anglophone countries, I think. I suppose it derives from the German "Kinder" for children.
Personally, I do not like using it or hearing it, as equating children with young goats seems a bit sloppy.
On the other hand, I occasionally do use it myself, so I'm in no position to pontificate - that has never stopped me though! ;-)
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I have been known to call mine far worse when they are, for example, arguing over a toy at 7:00 on a Sunday morning. ;-)
Under my breath and well out of earshot of course. :-)
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The word "Kids" for Children is nothing new, my Granny still reminisces about "when she was a kid" and she`s 93! - her parents and their parents used it, and like a lot of other things right or wrong, it became "acceptable" generally through constant usage. As a few others have stated it`s "Political Correctness" that is wrong! - it creates problems and argument where none has ever existed before, cue "Baa -Baa sheep have you any wool", they were never the words to a medieval folk-song that has been around centuries, until P>C came along!
P>C is nothing more than a tool for stirring the "Proverbial" !
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My personal favourite quote about PC:
"Political correctness: A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority, and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." Chet Beates
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"ROTFLMAO!"
Not very PC - the M shows a selfish streak and a lack of consideration for those of us that merely giggled - you are suggesting that you are superior are you not? This is discrimination against those lacking a sense of humour (of either sex)
The A is very offensive and should not be allowed to be written on a public forum open to minors. It may offend people especially those of tender years who could ascribe rude words to the letter. (I can think of at least one - maybe two)
In addition, I feel that the "ROTF" may well be a health and safety issue - I hope you have had training in this activity and were wearing the correct safety equipment - hard hat, knee protectors etc.
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I'm not sure what this was apropos in news terms, but it seems apposite for a drift into political correctness - from yesterday -
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/matt/?cartoon=9327596&cc=9304439
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About time.. - Duncan
