I have a possibly erroneous impression that running a care home is a good way of making money. Some staff, probably all on National Minimum Wage, except those with specialist qualifications, not that much spent on food and fees approaching £1000 a week.
Certainly one home is doing well; one of the vulnerable girls, used and abused by a gang in Rochdale was the sole occupant of a specialist home at an annual fee of £252,000 a year. For this vast sum the girl was out more than she was in and sometimes absent for 2 weeks at a time. Report in today's Times. Staff tried following her but lost track and sent text messages asking her when she was coming back. That's good value!
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The case Meldrew mentions has an incendiary side, and the BNP has already stuck its ugly mug into it. The repellent abusers are sexually frustrated men lumbered with unsatisfactory marriages with women they hardly know and don't respect. Given that some of them treat their own women worse than dogs, they can hardly be expected to show respect for loose infidel teenagers.
This situation is nothing to do with the religion of Islam but stems from local social traditions in some Muslim countries. A proper skim through a translation of the Koran will show anyone that Islam doesn't favour keeping women down, not educating them, etc. But people do have a tendency to claim that what they are used to and think suits them personally, from arranged marriage to genital mutilation, has divine sanction.
These men aren't 'sex fiends' as the Sun calls them. They are just nasty, rather ignorant fellows with nasty social attitudes and traditions which, I repeat, should not be attributed to their religion even if they themselves think their behaviour is Islamic.
And if we are going to talk about fiends, the parents and relations of these pathetic unfortunate girls make candidates just as good as the abusers, one can't help thinking.
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The majority of the staff is just above minimum wage.What can you say what happened to these girls.The leader of the gang can't be named why? Thugs.
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>> Thugs.
Yes. Nasty ones.
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I wonder A.C if this is the tip of the Iceberg.Still puzzled that the Manchester police didn't pick up on this four years ago.When one of the girls reported being abused.
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We are a nation of 60 million Dutchie, and our reputation for toeraggery stands high in the view of other countries. So it would be remarkable if there were no other cases like this one.
Big-city police forces are not renowned for caringness and their cynicism is well known. I am sure the GMP are no exception.
It is suggested that their foot-dragging in this case had something to do with a fear of being thought racist. Anyway that is what is being said now. But it seems to me perfectly possible that they just didn't give a damn about these troubled and troublesome girls.
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>> Still puzzled that the Manchester
>> police didn't pick up on this four years ago.When one of the girls reported being
>> abused.
Didn't see any dates in the BBC report but isn't it possible that a case like this takes 4 years to be investigated and brought to trial? Only guessing though.
Last edited by: Focus on Thu 10 May 12 at 13:14
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This is what I heard on the news regarding the time factor.
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>> isn't it possible that a case like this takes 4 years to be investigated and brought to trial? Only guessing though.
It may take a while but why should it take that long? It's a relatively simple case, not some accountancy labyrinth involving white-collar stolen millions.
It is fairly clear that nothing at all was done for a very long time after the first complaint.
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>> It may take a while but why should it take that long? It's a relatively
>> simple case, not some accountancy labyrinth involving white-collar stolen millions.
There were doubts about the girls' credibility as witnesses in a jury trial. CPS initally decided not to prosecute. A 'new broom' prosecutor with a track record in linked areas reversed that decision.
www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/09/rochdale-grooming-trial-race
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>> There were doubts about the girls' credibility as witnesses in a jury trial.
Nothing surprising about that. The psychic and intellectual universe of such people is unimaginable to most of us. Makes you want to cry, adolescents for whom language itself is meaningless, and everything else along with it...
Even so: feet were apparently dragged for one reason or another. It's a bit of a disgrace even if some of the media seem to be stirring it up. Perhaps they are annoyed that they didn't get wind of the story earlier themselves.
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Here is another story, dated 8 May, from the same town, that the media largely ignored:
menmedia.co.uk/manchestereveningnews/news/crime/s/1493179
"police sergeant Peter Jee jailed for having sex with vulnerable Rochdale woman"
>> .... running a care home is a good way of making money
>> sole occupant of a specialist home at an annual fee of £252,000 a year.
>>
Meldrew, why don't you go in to the business as you think it is so profitable?
>> The leader of the gang can't be named why?
>>
Dutchie - it is likely that further prosecution is pending where revealing his identity now could prejudice that case.
>> The psychic and intellectual universe of such people is unimaginable to most of us.
>>
If you want to see what some PhD researchers make of it, and the reaction of Guardian readers to that analysis, read all 20 pages of it here:
tinyurl.com/bpafftt ( link to Guardian "Comment is Free" )
here is just one comment from someone who knows the community:
"asianbloodenglish
9 May 2012 12:10PM
There is no justification for the crimes these animals have commited, period. My concern is the stereotypes and profiling that will follow from here (and in some cases rightly so!) and without thorough understanding of the problem people like me will suffer. My own perpective is that as there are estimated to be around a 1 million people of pakistani descent in this country but the Pakistani nation (is not a natural construct) itself is not a homogenous group of people, so how can profiling Pakistani men' be correct. The people who arrived on these shores in 50's onwards are predominantly of Punjabi, Mirpuri and Pukhtun extraction with a sprinkling of other Pakistani ethnicities i.e Sindhis, Baloch and Seraikis (as you may have guessed I am one of these!). This is huge a problem with the former ethnicities, even in there country of origin. Puktuns in particular have a reputation for 'Bacha Baazi' (peodaphilia by its other name) to the extent kids are told out to watch out for the Lala (Puktun) from a young age and are regarded as a bit of bogeyman. The one common factor in the Panjabi, Mirpuri and Pakhtun communities is that they are either strictly tribal or Biradari (family brotherhood) based therefore everything is very secretive. In my opinion this is where this problem has to be addressed by the government. i.e stop pandering to the whims of the 'elders, Mullahs and other so called community leaders' bring them into the 21st century by force if necessary. How would we do it, well to start with by educating them in English and for them to understand why this behaviour is unacceptable and accept our moral standards as the norm and not try to dictate terms of the narrative on their terms but by us, the majority of decent law abiding people of this country of any racial background...
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>> If you want to see what some PhD researchers make of it, and the reaction of Guardian readers to that analysis, read all 20 pages of it here:
Why would I want to read something that says less than I have already said above, less clearly and in many more words? In any case when I referred to the unimaginable mental universe of 'these people' I meant the girls, not the abusers. The abusers are easy enough for any man to understand: brutal, greedy, ignorant and hypocritical. Nothing remotely out of the ordinary there.
The girls are another matter, in some cases without any schooling, without parental precept, perhaps brutalized at home, people literally without culture or even proper language. There are too many such in our society although of course they are a very small minority.
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If you think the BNP are racist - look at this lot!
infidelsofbritain.com/
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Thick as pig excrement too Roger.
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>> Thick as pig excrement too Roger.
>>
I agree! (with you AC - not them!!)
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 10 May 12 at 17:12
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"Blame lies with the victims, not the perpetrators of the crimes", that was the defence used by the convicted rapists.
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It makes you think how men behave in a group.In this case they become like preditors.After the deed go home to their own families.You can analyse till you are blue in the face,I would lock the lot up for the rest of their lives tribal or not.
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>> I would lock the lot up for the rest of their lives tribal or not.
They have been locked up Dutchie, some for quite a long time. They won't be popular with some of their fellow prisoners either.
Getting away with that deplorable behaviour for so long must have felt a bit, well, encouraging. They must feel quite hard done by now, bad cess to the carphounds.
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Predatory abusive behaviour towards young girls is not exclusive to men of Pakistani origin. Or Muslim men. Never has been nor will it in the future.
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Quite right Zero. Cruelty, immoral hypocrisy and sexual frustration are common to all societies and social groups. What you read in the paper (quite enough many would think) is often the tip of an iceberg.
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>> Predatory abusive behaviour towards young girls is not exclusive to men of Pakistani origin. Or
>> Muslim men. Never has been nor will it in the future.
>>
It is a question of "exclusive" but of "predominance" in the stats. Not all, not many, but among the minority of all races who do the abuse, the Pakistani Muslim is disproportionately represented.
wikiislam.net/wiki/Contemporary_Pedophilic_Islamic_Marriages
"In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of puberty are forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various personal gains by the girls' guardian. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.
This practice may also be prevalent to a lesser extent amongst other Muslim communities, and is worryingly on the rise among the growing Muslim populations in many Western countries, such as the United Kingdom ... "
On the other hand, there is a distinct lack of Indian-Gujarati-Hindu males in the stats for sexual crimes.
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> "In many Islamic countries, child marriages are common practice. Girls far below the age of
>> puberty are forcibly married to older persons (sometimes in their 50s and later) for various
>> personal gains by the girls' guardian. Pedophilic Islamic marriages are most prevalent in Pakistan and
>> Afghanistan, followed by other countries in the Middle East and Bangladesh.
They are possibly following the example of their "prophet" who apparently took unto himself a nine year old child-bride.
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>> They are possibly following the example of their "prophet" who apparently took unto himself a nine year old child-bride.
>>
They are legally allowed to so:
edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/04/12/saudi.child.marriage/index.html
"A Saudi judge has refused for a second time to annul a marriage between an 8-year-old girl and a 47-year-old man, a relative of the girl told CNN.
The most recent ruling, in which the judge upheld his original verdict, was handed down Saturday in the Saudi city of Onaiza, where late last year the same judge rejected a petition from the girl's mother, who was seeking a divorce for her daughter.
...
At the time of the initial verdict, the judge required the girl's husband to sign a pledge that he would not have sex with her until she reaches puberty, al-Jutaili told CNN.
....
... the kingdom's top cleric has said that it's OK for girls as young as 10 to wed.
"It is incorrect to say that it's not permitted to marry off girls who are 15 and younger," Sheikh Abdul Aziz Al-Sheikh, the kingdom's grand mufti, said in remarks last January quoted in the regional Al-Hayat newspaper. "A girl aged 10 or 12 can be married. Those who think she's too young are wrong and they are being unfair to her."
Al-Sheikh reportedly made the remarks when he was asked during a lecture about parents forcing their underage daughters to marry. " "
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>> .... running a care home is a good way of making money
>> sole occupant of a specialist home at an annual fee of £252,000 a year.
>>
Meldrew, why don't you go in to the business as you think it is so profitable?
I am within 5 years of going into a home but there is no way one could not make a profit from running a 24 hour 365 day a week residence for one person when charging £1/4 million a year! That's £685 a day!
I am not inclined to go into the business and I shan't be paying that for any one that I may go to!
Last edited by: Meldrew on Thu 10 May 12 at 17:58
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The nursing home business fell out of bed a few years ago when local authorities began cutting back on the numbers of people and the amount of care they would pay for.
Few people, apart from my rich cousin in Taunton, can afford to pay about £750 a week for year after year.
Not that he now knows he is affording it, poor blighter.
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Talking of eventual decease - SWMBO & I have decided to leave our rotten bodies for medical research. That means, if our bits are accepted, no thieving funeral director will get a penny out of us!
Similarly we are investigating the various schemes for preserving our few assets from being seized to pay for care, if we need it & if/when, we go doolally-tap!
Last edited by: Roger on Thu 10 May 12 at 18:29
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For considerably less Sir you may come here and live like a Lord. You will need an appetite though cos she'll kill you with kindness. Oh! and a penchant for a spot of light gardening will ensure the fees are kept to a minimum. (0-:-0)
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As regards the crime, David Starkey has a view (of course). He is reported in today's Telegraph as saying the men were "acting within their own cultural norms". I hope this observation is based on good knowledge as I am sure he will be called to account for it.
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Andrew Norfolk came to the same conclusions and stated them in the Times on Wednesday. Specifically "An 18 month investigation has identified widespread evidence of a pattern of collective child abuse involving young white girls and a criminal sub-section of Muslim men, mainly of Pakistani heritage"
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It's the collective bit that seems, for some reason, to disproportionately involve people of ethnicities who fetched up classed as Pakistani. Pakistan itself is a construct of UK's exit plan for its Indian Empire. Its people have little shared history other than being genrally Muslim.
With the notable exception of football 'spitroasts' other ethnicites resident in the UK pursue under age sex alone.
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Costs of Care - Armel Coussine
