I'd like to get an idea of what it would cost to replace our existing toilet and cistern to a dual flush model. Our existing toilet is on it's way out and a new one is the only option now.
We will be getting a few quotes but I'd like a rough idea of cost.
I would be getting a local plumber or handyman to do the job.
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Cost of a toilet ? - as long as a piece of string.
First point is that you may well have to order the replacement.
I needed to replace one recently, in a hurry and even visiting about the biggest B&Q in UK I had a choice of three.
The list below is so called takeaway items. i.e. off the shelf
www.diy.com/nav/rooms/bathrooms/takeaway-bathrooms/takeaway_toilets
Prices just then climb.
Fitting should be simple :-)
I was surprised that the fench made one I bought had no wall fixing.
Tank bolted onto the pan and the pan bolted to the floor.
All plastic complicated guts in it. I had to RTFM to replace the tank lid.
In my loo only room it was a PITA to tighten the screws attaching the pan to the floor brackets. Tight large screws either side needing lots of leverage.
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>>
>> The list below is so called takeaway items. i.e. off the shelf
>>
>> www.diy.com/nav/rooms/bathrooms/takeaway-bathrooms/takeaway_toilets
>>
I see they call them toilets to go - or should that be toilets to go on??
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If you don't want anything too fancy £150-£200 will buy you a reasonable close coupled toilet and another £100 -£150 should get it fitted I think if it's like for like. They are fairly straight forward to fix yourself though. Even I have managed it!
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>>They are fairly straight forward to fix yourself though. Even I have managed it!
>>
Famous last words.
First replacement I fitted in my current house was not easy. Started with having to grind through the soil pipe with an angle grinder etc etc.
I replaced that same toilet a few weeks ago and had a big problem with the flexible connector to the soil pipe.
Those easy jobs !!!
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Those easy jobs !!!
Tell me about it -the landing light still not working!
Toilets are OK if its like for like and the existing plumbing is modern. Have hack-sawed through an iron soil pipe myself some years back and it wasn't much fun!
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We had both bathrooms fully refurbished recently and saved literally thousands by searching carefully via ebay and online plumbers merchants for everything we needed.
So measure up and decide what you want and get searching, by going for an end of range you might pick up an excellent pan for buttons.
I too baulk at jobs like this, i have refurbed a bathroom before (badly) and a kitchen....never again, but i'm no use at diy, get a handy bloke in for pound notes.
I predict change from £250 all in for a decent bog fitted for cash.
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>> Toilets are OK if its like for like and the existing plumbing is modern
>>
Yes I tend to agree.
I had to cut out the old Multikwik connector I originally fitted decades ago but the
other brand this time was a poor fit.
Problem solved by coincidence as I had all external soilpipes replaced soon after.
In general pans are so easy to connect to soil pipe since the introduction of flexi pipes
www.multikwik.com/catalogue/14/wc-connectors.html
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>In general pans are so easy to connect to soil pipe since the introduction of flexi pipes
And flexible tap connectors make life easy too.
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>> >In general pans are so easy to connect to soil pipe since the introduction of flexi pipes
>>
>> And flexible tap connectors make life easy too.
>>
and finally re installation, many tanks do not need an external overflow pipe.
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Does the OP really need a complete toilet? The pan, unless cracked, doesn't "go". It could just be a new cistern, which with some planning and buying the right type, is cheap and easy to replace.
The only time I ever bought a new pan was when putting in a second loo. The famous "fall of the soil pipe" incident.
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>> And flexible tap connectors make life easy too.
>>
I hate flexible tap connectors. If the copper pipe it's connected to isn't securely restrained you can get water hammer (pipes rattling) if the appliance/tap shuts off quickly ~ and that can lead to leaks in pipework which might be hidden. We're in the process of arranging for the replacement of our toilet in which the flow stops abruptly and which is connected with a flexible connector. The inlet valve of our new toilet is of a different design which should shut off gently, and I'll insist that the plumber connects it up with copper pipe.
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Water hammer is not caused by flexible tap connectors . It is caused by air in the system.
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>> Water hammer is not caused by flexible tap connectors . It is caused by air
>> in the system.
I said it was due to flow stopping abruptly, together with pipes which are not securely restrained. A pipe which has a flexible connector at the end is more likely to be insufficiently restrained than one which has a solid copper pipe.
tinyurl.com/cw852q5
tinyurl.com/boq4mq9
tinyurl.com/buhs7m7
tinyurl.com/ccqtk9e
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 24 Apr 12 at 09:48
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>> Water hammer is not caused by flexible tap connectors . It is caused by air
>> in the system.
>>
I don't think so:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_hammer
Air is sometimes deliberately added, in the form of relief pockets, to absorb shocks and so prevent water hammer.
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>> >> Water hammer is not caused by flexible tap connectors . It is caused by
>> air
>> >> in the system.
>> >>
>>
>> I don't think so:
>>
>> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_hammer
>>
>> Air is sometimes deliberately added, in the form of relief pockets, to absorb shocks and
>> so prevent water hammer.
Thanks, Cliff Pope, for your support of my statement. I nearly posted your Wikipedia link but I thought that the links I posted would carry more weight.
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Fixing a copper pipe to a plastic toilet inlet valve is no substitute for proper pipe fixings. Your hammer is caused by badly secured pipes, the flexible tap connector has nothing to do with it.
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>> Fixing a copper pipe to a plastic toilet inlet valve is no substitute for proper pipe fixings.
>> Your hammer is caused by badly secured pipes, the flexible tap connector has nothing to do with it.
>>
I would agree with the need for proper pipe fixing but the alternative ?
I have just ordered a small " water hammer arrestor" so I hope it does what it says.
I look forward to fitting it as it appears to be a simpler option than hunting pipes and fixing extra clips
Last edited by: henry k on Tue 24 Apr 12 at 12:22
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Clipping the pipes down doesn't actually stop the pressure surge - it just stops the pipes jumping about and you hearing it. A surge arrestor gives the pressure wave somewhere to dissipate / expand to, so reduces the pressure and the noise. High pressure water systems, and rapid shut off taps (eg 1/4 turn, toilets that close off quickly) are the cause of the problems. I doubt flexi hoses make any difference - as long as the pipe is fixed where the hose joins on, it won't bounce - in fact they may even reduce the pressure as they probably expand a bit when the pressure rises.
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Our next job will be replacing the toilet and sink.Take the bath out and replace it with a shower cubicle.Taking the old wall tiles off and replacing with new.Brother in law and me will be having a go.Not yet.,;)
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We turned our en suite into a wet room Dutchie, its made the room very spacious indeed as we now only have a 6ft x 4ft toughended glass panel beside the shower to prevent main splash and another 4 ft walk in space behind the screen , a 1/2" ridge on the tiles in the walk in is enough to stop the flow of excess water creeping out when we shower.
Just a thought for you, cost very reasonable by careful searching for all needed.
You could get four consenting adults in the shower at once i suppose if that was your thing..;)
much easier for washing the dog too when she's done her usual and found the filthiest mud bath in the county to dive into.
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>> much easier for washing the dog too when she's done her usual and found the
>> filthiest mud bath in the county to dive into.
There is a tap and hose outside the house for this very task.
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>> There is a tap and hose outside the house for this very task.
>>
Normally we let her go in the lake for swim when she's got plastered in muck and bulletts, its when the crafty blighter nips in the brook on the way home whilst searching desperately for cats, if there's even 1 small patch of filthy disgusting muck along the whole stream she'll find it.
She doesn't do it too often luckily, maybe every 2 or 3 months so use that as an excuse to give her a proper dog shampooing...she do smell lovely afterwards, haven't got the heart to fully shower her outside with cold water, remember Vizslas do not have an undercoat and the cold really gets to them.
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>> She doesn't do it too often luckily, maybe every 2 or 3 months so use
>> that as an excuse to give her a proper dog shampooing...she do smell lovely afterwards,
>> haven't got the heart to fully shower her outside with cold water, remember Vizslas do
>> not have an undercoat and the cold really gets to them.
Agreed they are not multi coated, but it wouldn't go in the lake if it was a problem, As long as they are dried off with a towel (after the inevitable shake the water everywhere episode) they will be fine. They are tougher than you think.
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Thanks for your advice Gordon.The bathroom is 2.2.m by 1.85m.Not big.We have a shower in the bath which is fine by me.Diana has a disability and climbing in and out the bath is the problem.We will have to move the sink and the toilet to create more space.It will have to be a shower cubicle.Only room for one,two a push.>:)
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Electric shower unit above the bath now.I confuse myself..;)
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>>You could get four consenting adults in the shower at once i suppose if that was your thing..;)<<
Ménage à four ;}
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The conversation is going down hill as usual.Gruss Got.>:)
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>> The conversation is going down hill as usual.Gruss Got.>:)
>>
I think he means Grüß Gott.
;-)
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I don't what I mean lost the plot.I'm speaking in Plat Deutsch.>:)
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>>I doubt flexi hoses make any difference - as long as the pipe is fixed where the hose joins on, it won't bounce - in fact they may even reduce the pressure as they probably expand a bit when the pressure rises.<<
It seems that bathroom installers are using flexible hoses rather than copper pipes these days.
We're still looking at suites, and have recently visited a couple of suppliers / installers, who said that they replace the old copper pipework with plastic, unless we particularly asked them to quote for copper, as we would.
The wife seems quite keen on Vitra bathroom suites, amongst others.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Tue 8 May 12 at 13:57
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I now have collected my made in the USA "Sioux Chief Mini- Rester- Water hammer arrester".
It looks like this
www.toolstation.com/shop/Plumbing/Valves/MiniRester+BSPT/d20/sd2696/p85345
So now to find time to T it into the supply pipe.
There is an added bonus as it "can installed vertically, horizontally or any angle in between"
I will report back
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I stand corrected but air in pipes will also cause noise and vibration throughout the system.
Neither water-hammer or noise caused by air in the system are caused or exacerbated by flexible connectors
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>> Neither water-hammer ....... exacerbated by
>> flexible connectors.
It is exacerbated if changing from a complete solid pipe to a solid pipe followed by a flexible connector results in the downstream original piping losing a degree of its restraint.
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Well let's hope your new loo transforms your bathroom into an oasis of quiet and calm.
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Thanks for all the advice, I'm getting a quote shortly as I'm not really confident to do this job myself. I only attempt jobs that I know I can do and this isn't one of them!
The toilet has been there for 35 years and is aqua green in colour so the toilet and cistern must be replaced to match.
Last year the rubber doughnut joint started to leak, now this was a job I could do myself but... the cistern retaining bolts on the wall have both got damaged heads so impossible to remove without damaging the cistern. My remedy was Plumbers Mait, I had to put it all around where the cistern meets the toilet but this stopped the leak.
We're now decorating the toilet (it's not in the bathroom) and I notice that there is a very fine streak of rust on the repair now, no water visible...yet. Also we are renewing the floor covering so this has to be cut around the toilet and if the toilet needed to be replaced...
As it's an old type toilet with a 12 or more litre flush we thought it best to renew the whole lot to a dual flush modern unit using only 6 or 4 litres and we are on a water meter too.
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>> As it's an old type toilet with a 12 or more litre flush we thought
>> it best to renew the whole lot to a dual flush modern unit using only
>> 6 or 4 litres and we are on a water meter too.
>>
I'm not sure I like the idea of a 6 litre flush and certainly not a 4.5 litre flush. The old 12 litre flush must have been chosen for a good reason.
Last edited by: L'escargot on Thu 26 Apr 12 at 07:09
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>> As it's an old type toilet with a 12 or more litre flush we thought
>> it best to renew the whole lot to a dual flush modern unit using only
>> 6 or 4 litres and we are on a water meter too.
Our water bill is but a small proportion of our total expenditure, and our consumption of water from flushing the toilet is but a small proportion of our total water consumption. Assuming we flush our toilet 12 times per day, if we had a saving of 6 litres per flush we'd save 26 cu.m of water per year. The cost saving would be £71 per year. I'd sooner have a 12 litre flush toilet and pay the extra £71 per year and know that our poo and toilet paper would be getting out of our drains and into the public sewer satisfactorily. As I said in an earlier post, the old 12 litre flush must have been chosen for a good reason.
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A 12 litre flush - it must have launched some seriously massive Admiral Browns!
OTH, you could keep a Poo(h) stick to hand!
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So does it come down to the only reason for replacing the toilet is the cistern retaining screws are rusty preventing a DIY donut repair? I've never failed to get out even the most rusty screws and would spend a bit more time doing this.
If the screw slots have rusted away I usually knock a plastic or wooden wedge down behind the cistern which should pull the screws forward just enough to expose a few mm to get mole grips on when the wedge is removed and cistern pushed back. Many times when you do this the wall plugs just pull right out of the wall anyway.
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>> It is exacerbated if changing from a complete solid pipe to a solid pipe followed by a flexible connector results in the downstream original piping losing a degree of its restraint.
>>
Due to othr tasks plumbig has not yet happened.however an update.
Task 1.
I am trying to stop water hammer on the mains supply.
SWMBO complains that the kitchen tap cases some hammer.
SWMBO also complains that when I was using the garden hose, every shut off caused hammer.
Task 2.
The new one is to stop water hammer in the non mains supply.
After closer investigation I now realise that this new source is the new toilet.
I had wrongly assumed it was associated with the loft cold tank refilling.
Prior to the new loo there was a supply pipe to it that was sort of plastered in the corner of the wall from the ceiling down to the tank.
When I put the new pan in I ripped out the existing pipe and replaced it with an under floor supply and a flexible connector.
The loo shut of valve is very abupt in action and is causing the effect.
I will investigate clamping the pipe along its route.
Gripping the pipe and forcing it against the floorboards certainly reduces the noise thus supporting the approach of more pipe clips.
I am not yet convinced clips will solve it but if that fails the I will be investigating discarding the French valve and putting in an English Torbeck.
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Must admit this thread has got me a little concerned, both our new toilets feature dual flush and both shut off rapidly, wondering if these abrupt stops repeated hundreds of times will cause fatigue leaks elsewhere over time.
Just in case they are of interest to anyone else, we removed the one bidet and had Shattaffs (bum guns) installed beside the toilets when we had the refits, thermostatic for comfort..;), the water used often negates the need to flush, anyone who hasn't tried them be assured they are well worth investigating and we wouldn't be without them again.
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We live in a new build, three of these skinny latte toilets, they have very violent shut offs - when you do a a "number two" flush - as I wondering about fatigue lives.
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>> We live in a new build, three of these skinny latte toilets, they have very
>> violent shut offs - when you do a a "number two" flush - as I
>> wondering about fatigue lives.
>>
Currently, I ameliorate the situation by opening a nearby cold tap before flushing the toilet and then closing the tap gently after the toilet has finished flushing.
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Will try that come tomorrow morning's visit to the Contemplation Room !
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I've acquired a leaflet for Fluidmaster fill valves, and it seems significant that it says "minimal water hammer". It suggests that manufacturers are aware of the problem of abrupt shut-off with modern valves.
I couldn't find that bit of information in their website. tinyurl.com/d2kcafu Here's their page on troubleshooting. tinyurl.com/cfs5pb6
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>>Here's their page on troubleshooting. tinyurl.com/cfs5pb6
>>
Not a lot of use re my toilet as it is not on the mains water supply :-(
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>> ........... my toilet ........ is not on the mains
>> water supply :-(
>>
You've got an earth closet then? Which one of these? tinyurl.com/ccmqcd5 My grandparents had a two-seater version.
In an emergency you could make yourself one of these. tinyurl.com/cqhc8de
:-)
Last edited by: L'escargot on Tue 1 May 12 at 09:32
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Anyone had a toilet replaced lately?
...and a bath and a sink?
I hope the OP (and L'escargot) don't mind if I slot a question into this thread, but I wondered if anyone has recently had a new bathroom suite installed by a plumber, and how much this might have cost with the old suite, tiles, etc, already removed.
I have a tiler and electrician lined up to look after the other bits.
Thanks.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Tue 1 May 12 at 09:46
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>> I hope the OP (and L'escargot) don't mind ........
Why should I mind? I just stick my two penn'orth in every now and again!
:-)
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Well, lets say, the thread has leaned in your direction.
:-)
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>> Anyone had a toilet replaced lately?
>>
>> ...and a bath and a sink?
Nearly three years ago it cost us £335 (inc VAT) labour for the removal of the existing suite and the fitting of the new one.
However, they (there were two) were cowboys. They ignored the manufacturer's fitting instructions, particularly for the bath panels, and ended up (amongst other things) bodging the end panel. I recommend you get the best plumber you can find, preferably based on personal recommendation, rather than the cheapest. You also need a plumber who is prepared to read, and follow, the manufacturer's fitting instructions. I also recommend that you get the plumber to use copper pipe rather than flexible connectors, although I fully expect some other Car4play members to disagree with that.
I hope I haven't in any way been teaching my grandmother how to suck eggs!
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>>I hope I haven't in any way been teaching my grandmother how to suck eggs!
Not at all, L'escargot. I've picked up a number of useful tips from you over the years.
I've had a couple of complete bathroom refits in the past which were carried out by a two chaps who did the whole job themselves, and did them very well indeed. Unfortunately, they have since retired, but I do have someone else in mind who has been highly recommended, and I'll be asking him to give me a quote over the next week or so.
I've not used flexible connectors before, and have had no problems. So I'll stick with copper pipe.
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>>You've got an earth closet then?
>>
No 50 gallons reserve in the loft. :-)
I am familiar with less modern facilities.
At my grandmothers very old country cottage there was a brick build out house 200 feet away at the bottom of the garden adjacent to the pig sty.
Perhaps this is where "the runs" expression originated.
It was a wee bit cold in the winter but there was a 180 degree panoramic view of the countryside ( if you left the door open )
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 1 May 12 at 10:38
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We're having the job done on Thursday. A local plumber who has quoted £180 to £200 to do the complete job. I will report again once the job is done.
One question - at present the supply to the cistern comes from the loft tank but the plumber said he can do the supply from the mains pipe which is also nearby (it goes up into the loft).
Would there be any benefit from this, he said the pipe would be shorter as the cistern would be a right hand feed, whereas at present it's fed from the left.
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>> Would there be any benefit from this, he said the pipe would be shorter as
>> the cistern would be a right hand feed, whereas at present it's fed from the
>> left.
See all the threads on here about pipe hammer - all those systems are mains fed......
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But mains fed it would be safe to drink the water in the bowl ;-)
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Had the job done Thursday. Job went well and the total cost was £240, it took the plumber just over two hours.
We chose a better quality seat and there was a bit extra pipe work to do as I asked for the cistern to be plumbed into the existing feed from the tank which already has a stopcock on it.
We're very pleased with it and look forward to lower water bills as we are on a meter as I have said. "Things" flush down ok with no problem which wasn't always the case with the old toilet.
Now it's on with finishing the decorating...
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We got back to Gatwick early this morning after two weeks in the sun.
Arrived home to find the kitchen ceiling partially collapsed and the floor covered in water. Went upstairs and found the inlet to the toilet cistern in the family bathroom dripping onto the floor.
Plumber was there within two hours and installed a new float valve plus isolating valve.
His diagnosis was that the leak was caused by the plastic thread on the float valve being gradually worn down by slight movement of the brass coupling that connects it to the mains pressure water supply so we need to secure the pipework better as well. That will mean removing the tiles where the pipe exits the wall :-(
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Must be something with these toilets.We had a leak under the toilet cistern the other day.Smalldrip inlet cold water pipe leaking.We where to go away for a couple of days lucky my wife noticed the leak.Had the pipe replaced with a flexible pipe.We are in a once a month payment scheme covers the boiler central heating and elctricity problems.
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I finally solved the problem of the water hammer and pipes rattling that we use to get when the flush of our push-button toilet came to an abrupt stop. I had (a) the toilet replaced by an Armitage Shanks lever-operated toilet, (b) the fill valve of said toilet replaced by a float ball type, and (c) the flexible tap connectors on the inlet of the toilet and the wash basin cold tap replaced by copper pipe.
The toilet flush now comes to a gradual and silent end, and there is no water hammer if cold taps are turned off abruptly or when the washing machine water inlet valve closes.
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I've a job for you. Can ya start on Monday?
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>> I've a job for you. Can ya start on Monday?
>>
I had it done, I didn't say I did it! I chose (and bought) the toilet and decided on the replacement of the flexible tap connectors with copper pipe. I found a good plumber to do the work, and the replacement of the fill valve was his suggestion.
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Anyone had a toilet replaced lately? - henry k
