tinyurl.com/7kac9n9
If Cameron has secured their repatriation, he's just gone up in my estimation!
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WOW cant wait to see how this developes
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They don't know exactly where they are, they have no idea what condition they are in, they don't even know if they are still there.
Its highly speculative to say the least.
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At the end of WW2 the RAAF chopped the engines out of brand new Spitfires with axes, kept them as spares for their Mustangs, and scrapped the airframes. I hope the Malaysian ones are intact if they ever find them.
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I saw this a few days ago. By all accounts the bloke searching for them reckons they are in a decent state would be good news if they were. Could expand BBMF to a full sqn!
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>> Could expand BBMF to a full sqn!
>>
And use them on the new aircraft carriers.
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Maybe so ON there was a carrier version I think. Might help out the latest rumour here, BBMF will swap a Spitfire for a Mossie in for the 2013 summer display season.
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The carrier version was the Seafire.
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Update on the Burmese Spitfires: tinyurl.com/czzvyt8 (Mail)
Well, I think it's an update rather than just a rehash. Seems more likely they're coming back.
Last edited by: Focus on Thu 18 Oct 12 at 10:09
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One would look nice on one's lawn..
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This reminds me of the story my Dad keeps telling me of how after the War there were several of the hangers here at Biggin that were stacked to the rafters with redundant Spitfires piled one on top of the other (all intact including engines), and it was from one of these aircraft that the BoBMF Spitfire came from.
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Another update, although the video isn't working for me so (again) I'm not sure whether there's much 'news' here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20532791
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Its the same old, same old. No-one has found anything as yet.
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That's a shame. Any plans to actually start digging yet?
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Send out Tony Robinson for 3 days - we will get them all back, intact with super CGI of anything that he does not actually find.
I like the idea of building a complete CGI Spitfire around just the one rusty bolt that they find lying on the jungle floor:)
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But they would argue if they were pre roman Spitfires or not.
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>> Any plans to actually start digging yet?
Here we go: www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20515659
"Work is due to start in January to unearth dozens of missing British Spitfires believed to have been buried in the Burmese jungle at the end of World War II."
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The hype ratchets up.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-humber-20910980
"The finds could be on the "same level as the Tutankhamun find in Egypt".
and
"They'll be in a very good condition"
There could be up to 36 buried planes at the end of the airport's runway in Mingaladon and up to 124 aircraft in total, it is thought.
This has all the makings of such a let down.
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Buried in wooden crates in a sub-tropical country, a country with monsoons and baking heat - of course they will be pristine.
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What is is it about old Spitfires? Seem plenty of them about at flying displays and the like. To compare finding the remains of a 70 year old aeroplane with the un-plundered tomb of a 3,500 year old Pharoah is a bit of a stretch.
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What!? Cough! Splutter!
Yellow card, CGN. (And you deserve a straight red really)
Who cares about a smelly old Pharoah? See one mummy you've seen them all. ;-)
Of all the so-called "icons" of the 20th Century the Spitfire is greatest. It is the iconic image of Britain's defiant "NO" to Fascist evil.
It was the right aircraft, at the right time against the right enemy. It also looked right, made the right sound, and had the right back-story to boot.
I'm a somewhat jaded and cynical 50-something old leftie, and do you know what? Whenever I see a Spitfire in flight, it takes all my strength to hold it together and not be a pile of bits on the floor.
Last edited by: Londoner on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 15:59
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Yes I know its and icon and all that but there are over 300 left 50 still flying and it must be one of the most well documented machines in the world. Apart from making someone a lot of money digging up a few more rotting examples isn't going to add to the sum of human knowledge is it?
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Apart from making someone a lot of money digging up a few more
>> rotting examples isn't going to add to the sum of human knowledge is it?
>>
Well not that many things do, some might say the same about digging up another Pharoah's tomb. Me, I quite like looking at both. Another few dozen would be snapped up, there's a very high demand to see them flying.
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you'll not be seeing Rangoon Joes ones flying, I'll be wagering
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Maybe maybe not, who knows. Just saying if they were economic to put back into the sky there wouldn't be a shortage of interest.
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"Me, I quite like looking at both. Another few dozen would be snapped up, there's a very high demand to see them flying. "
I can completely understand that. I was simply making the observation that in terms of historical importance and understanding digging up a few more decaying Spitfires isn't going to add much to the sum of human knowledge.
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>> "Me, I quite like looking at both. Another few dozen would be snapped up, there's
>> a very high demand to see them flying. "
>>
>> I can completely understand that. I was simply making the observation that in terms of
>> historical importance and understanding digging up a few more decaying Spitfires isn't going to add
>> much to the sum of human knowledge.
>>
No it wouldn't, I know the quote's a bit ott, but then would digging up another tomb add a great deal to the sum of human knowledge?
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>> No it wouldn't, I know the quote's a bit ott, but then would digging up
>> another tomb add a great deal to the sum of human knowledge?
we know what a rotting spitfire looks like in a wooden crate, no idea whats buried with the next Pharaoh, who it might be, or even if there is another one.
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no idea whats buried with the next Pharaoh,
A Hurricane?
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"would digging up another tomb add a great deal to the sum of human knowledge?"
Probably is the answer. There are huge holes in our understanding of Ancient Egypt which is mostly based on archaeological evidence. The discovery of a further un-robbed tomb would almost certainly provide some answers to many unanswered questions.
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>> "would digging up another tomb add a great deal to the sum of human knowledge?"
>>
>> Probably is the answer. There are huge holes in our understanding of Ancient Egypt which
>> is mostly based on archaeological evidence. The discovery of a further un-robbed tomb would almost certainly provide some answers to many unanswered questions.
>>
I'm sure it would add some knowledge, but 'great deal to the sum of human knowledge' ? Unlikely.
Anyway hard to compare the two finds, two very different things.
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So that's 250 not flying ie decorative but largely useless. The remaining 44 (according to one source I have) are spread across the world. Duxford airshow 2012 had 16 Spitfires airborne. It isn't costing any public funds for this enthusiast to look for these aircraft in Burma so let him get on with it and hope for the best. I wonder if the MOD will try to reclaim them or a stake in them, if they are found?
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I wonder if the MOD will try to reclaim them or a stake in them, if
>> they are found?
>>
Pretty unlikely we've enough of our own.
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Maybe we have, maybe we haven't. If they "Belong" to MOD they could claim them and sell them on; I wouldn't anything past them!
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Not sure what you mean, there's quite a few at bbmf. One might end up as swap.
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I mean that there are some at BBMF, some with private owners;the number may be enough,or not, depending on your standpolint
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Splutter on me ole cockney sparra
>> It was the right aircraft, at the right time against the right enemy. It also
>> looked right, made the right sound, and had the right back-story to boot.
nah, that was the Hurricane wot dun it guvna.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 16:37
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>> Splutter on me ole cockney sparra
>>
>> >> It was the right aircraft, at the right time against the right enemy. It
>> also
>> >> looked right, made the right sound, and had the right back-story to boot.
>>
>> nah, that was the Hurricane wot dun it guvna.
>>
Really? I'm not sure many would say it was a looker or had the 'right' back story.
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Well ok then, lets say that while the damned bosch was looking at the Spit and reading about the story,, the Hurry was shooting them down.
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Don't worry, I know what you mean. One has probably too much of the limelight, the other stuck (unfairly) in it's shadow.
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In the Battle of Britain, the Hurricane shot down more enemy aircraft than the Spitfire, it is true. I love the Hurricane as well. The Spitfire accounted for more aircraft in TOTAL in the Second World War though, and was the only allied plane in production as a fighter throughout the war.
It's influence was such that the combat radius of the Spitfire was a limiting factor in potential landing sites for D-Day. Basically, we wanted to ensure that the Spitfire could provide air cover.
Them Ancient Egyptians are interesting and that, but I'd like to see a Pharoah do this!:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf3UtmHLKUU
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I prefer the look of the Hurricane to the Spitfire, it seems a natural development of the Hart (and that's a beautiful looking 'plane IMO).
I understood the claim to more kills in the Battle of Britain was down to there being more Hurris than Spits and the Hurris being targeted at the bombers, while the Spits went after the fighters.
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And I suppose the most important decision of the Battle of France was not to commit any more front line fighters to defending the indefensible.
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>> This has all the makings of such a let down.
>>
When reading the above line one doesn't need to glance up for the name of the poster. (0:-:0)
I only hope you're wrong Zeddo.................
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>> Its the same old, same old. No-one has found anything as yet.
Sounds more promising:
"We put a camera down a boorhole and went into a box and through two inches of Canadian pine," Mr Cundall disclosed.
"Yes, we did see what we thought was an aeroplane."
tinyurl.com/btyoooc (DT)
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JCB have supplied a free digger and the man has permission to break ground on Monday. He could be lucky, bearing in mind stuff that has been restored to flying condition from very poor base material. www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/b29-frozen.html
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That didn't end happily if memory serves me right.
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"The attempted recovery resulted in the destruction and loss of the airframe by fire on the ground."
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kee_Bird
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Drat - I should have read to the end! Try this one then - the results are amazing - lots of video on YouTube too!
www.mosquitorestoration.com/
Last edited by: Meldrew on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 11:23
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I hope they find some pristine Spitfires and reactivate them, but I won't be holding my breath and it won't be the end of the world if they don't. There are several old runners already.
Of course a British machine-nerd's treasure and a world heritage treasure are two entirely different orders of thing FFS, (he snarled waspishly).
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>> Of course a British machine-nerd's treasure and a world heritage treasure are two entirely different
>> orders of thing FFS, (he snarled waspishly).
>>
Of course, AC, of course.
A funny thing, but that "world heritage treasure" would have ended up in the Führermuseum or other German museums had the Nazi's won World War 2.
(See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrermuseum )
They came a lot closer than some people think. Makes me shudder to think of it.
Last edited by: Londoner on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 19:40
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Granted, but on the possible upside we may well have ended up with fewer rules.
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>> They came a lot closer than some people think. Makes me shudder to think of
>> it.
They didnt, really. The only variable was time. As soon as the Russian campaign faltered they had no oil, no food, no raw materials, they were led by a mad man and no they were not close to the A bomb, few reliable jets, the Vergeltungswaffen (past V2) were nothing more than a dream.
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>>
>> >> They came a lot closer than some people think. Makes me shudder to think
>> of
>> >> it.
>>
>> They didnt, really.
I know they didn't win actually, Mein Freund (?), but they could have won.
Check Out "What if?" - Robert Cowley, Editor.
The Chapter "How Hitler could have won the war" by Robert Keegan.
Also a couple of chapters in "More What if" by the same editor.
The Russian campaign faltered in part because of the loss of skilled manpower on the Western Front, including the BoB, and the losses/delay of the Balkans & Crete campaigns. Even with these setbacks, the loss of Malta would have been critical, as Rommel would have been able to drive through to the Middle East Oil reserves AND open a Southern Front on the USSR. (Plus, we would have LOST the oil as well, of course).
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you could what if any scenario ending, you cant ignore the fact Hitler was a military berk. as soon as he took over from his generals he was a ded 'un
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 5 Jan 13 at 21:50
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>> you could what if any scenario ending
>>
Thank You for conceding my point. It was hard work, but we got there in the end. ;-)
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>> >> you could what if any scenario ending
>> >>
>> Thank You for conceding my point. It was hard work, but we got there in
>> the end. ;-)
Not my scowly.
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>> "world heritage treasure" would have ended up in the Führermuseum or other German museums had the Nazi's won World War 2.
Look on the bright side Londoner. It would probably have been free to worshipping open-mouthed admirers from one of the subject nations. Doubtless another museum in Supermanland would have had Spitfires in it too.
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I think the deal is that the Burmese get half the loot that is dug up.
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-20939051
The species might be slightly more endangered than it was!
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Fingers crossed they find them, then we might get more of this...
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lfs24MnEL_k
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A crate has been found but a camera sent down found muddy water and contents of the crate could not be identified (BBC report). Mentions that up to 120 Spitfires may be buried at various sites.
US forces also dumped a huge quantity of equipment, rather than sell vehicles etc to the local population. cabinetmagazine.org/issues/10/million_point.php
Last edited by: Meldrew on Wed 9 Jan 13 at 18:11
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>> A crate has been found but a camera sent down found muddy water and
>> contents of the crate could not be identified (BBC report).
>>Project leader David Cundall described the development as "very encouraging".
Spitfire soup is encouraging?
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>>Spitfire soup is encouraging?
It was planted sixty years ago. What would you look like after sixty years in a wooden box, underground?
Wishful thinking? ;>)
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merely saying, as I had have all through this sorry episode, the best they can hope for is a sodden mess of uselessness
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Doh!
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-21074699
"Archaeologists believe no Spitfires buried in Burma"
EDIT: "But project leader David Cundall says they are looking in the wrong place."
Last edited by: Focusless on Fri 18 Jan 13 at 09:45
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Good lord, the total number has now gone up to 124 spitfires. What are they doing, breeding down there?
Wot a load of ole pony.
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"Wot a load of ole pony."
"Shergar Found" thread surely.
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Hmmm it's an odd one this. When it went to 124 it did make me think even then that is a lot of aircraft to bury. I think there could well be a few there but who knows what will turn up in the end.
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Nothing will turn up, cos they aint looking any more. He has no chance of getting any more funding after that fiasco.
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Probably not, but you never know. I don't know where this all came from to start with. Old men with poor memories, someone having him on? It's that sort of thing I mean, I can't see a reason to doi it in the first place.Stuff was thrown in the sea, seems a lot of effort to hide it all away.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Fri 18 Jan 13 at 21:51
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Strewth, what a find! - zookeeper
