We had the knockers around the other day trying to get you to sign up for charitable Direct Debits to UNICEF (which has nothing to do with the UN nowadays - which might actually be a good thing) - they called once and I told them I was busy, as promised they returned a couple of hours later and I had my arm twisted - basically I signed up to get rid of the cheesy gits, knowing I could cancel my DD at any points.
I did all the security checks by contacting the charity and confirming their identities etc etc (sourcing the number from the web and not off the card they gave me).
According to a radio programme yesterday a lot of the major charities are moving to this tactic - I won't sign up again 'cos if all of them come a-calling I'll have no money left at 8.50 a throw.
They were very persistent and high pressure and charities should be ashamed of themselves doing cold-calling like this, especially to prey upon the elderly and vulnerable. At least around here the response could escalate from abuse to dogs to a shotgun up the nose. Suburbia it ain't.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sat 14 Apr 12 at 11:39
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I tend to tell them at the door or on the High Street that I
1. Donate money to support an orphan in Kenya
2. Donate money to support an OAP in Sri Lanka who is younger than me
3. Split my winter fuel allowance and give it to UK charities.
and that this enough for an OAP (even though it is nowhere near the traditional "tithe".) Wouldn't it be nice if income tax was set as a Tithe? (Osborne please note)
I know some of you may tell me that not much of the first two actually gets to Kenya and Sri Lanka but it the best I can do.
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Oh Rob you didn't sign up? I'm afraid, as with unsolicited telephone calls as discussed on the other thread, I very politely but firmly and swiftly explain that I strongly object to being canvassed on my doorstep / telephone and will they please leave / hang up.
I give to charity on a regular basis, but I will not be coerced into it by anyone.
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The term is "chuggers" from charity muggers.
Cancel it now. The chuggers aren't usually volunteers, they are commission based and anything up to a year's donations will go to the chuggers or their employers.
My son is an all round good egg (like his sister who has regular donations set up) and was all for signing up with one of these who are always hanging around one of the local supermarkets. I told him to donate direct or sign up via their website if he wanted to help.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 14 Apr 12 at 11:50
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>> cold-calling like this, especially to prey upon the elderly and vulnerable
Somehow i never visualised you in either of those categories RP..;)
We don't get much of this fortunately, our address is probably known as scrooge central in their circle.
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"Big 'airy trucker lives there, waste 'o time bud"....
:-)
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I give to a few charities by DD. Red Cross is November and is for £40. I got several phone calls trying to up the annual amount - almost harassment!
Eventually I replied if you continue with these calls then I can give November to AN Other charity that appreciate £40. They took the hint and since then silence.
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>>I got several phone calls trying to up the annual amount - almost harassment!
Exactly! - I had a £5 pm DD setup for the RNIB, I had only made 3 installments when they `phoned, trying to get me to increase it to £10!! I politely explained it was all We could afford as we are on benefits, at which point it almost turned to harassment.
I politely informed them that their greed had just lost them the existing donation, and next day, changed it to the NW Air Ambulance.
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They all try it on.....
www.portsmouth.co.uk/news/local/rspca-criticised-after-court-case-to-challenge-will-1-1247818
Won't be long before they start challenging wills where they are not included at all on the basis that they should have been because the deceased had a pet gold fish!
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Between this type of thing and the constant TV advert propaganda designed to somehow shame you into coughing up, i've become immune and ever less likely to contribute.
I don't contribute to foreign causes anyway, got enough need and neglect in our own lands.
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RSPCA and the National Trust fall into the same area for me, quasi-official bodies who have political wing.
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The UK has so many charities (189,000) because of it's incredibly charity friendly laws. If a charity collector can't tell me immediately what percentage of my contribution goes on admin and wages then that's the end of the conversation.
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The local charity for special children and their families, of which I am a Trustee, spent £3,742 on running costs last year. This included a one off payment for a new website + hosting. CRB checks accounted for £747 of this money and Insurance another £703.
You can probably guess that many of us do not claim all our expenses!
Of around £42,250 income, most is raised via grants, subs. and (unsolicited) donations. We get a regular sum from our MP, who donates various fees he gets and a special mention for the two local policemen who ran the London Marathon and gave us the money they raised!
I'm afraid we do not have enough spare cash to send you a 'free' pen, cards or mail shots, nor to spend money on chuggers etc etc.
I am still astounded at what two mums have achieved with a start up sum of £200.
Soooo - the long and short of it is, support the British Legion, find your local hospital/air ambulance/hospice charity or another local one involved in what you are interested in and support them. Even the smallest amount is then appreciated and used appropriately - and if you don't want to give money - give time. Always looking for supporters to enable a child to do some of the activities on the other thread - or their siblings to enjoy some stress free time.
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> Soooo - the long and short of it is, support the British Legion, find your
>> local hospital/air ambulance/hospice charity or another local one involved in what you are interested in and support them.
I decided last Christmas, not to spend any money on cards - instead I set up a monthly donation to the local air ambulance.
Seems to me a better way to spend a few quid.
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...RSPCA and the National Trust fall into the same area for me, quasi-official bodies who have political wing...
The RSPCA seems more interested in having meetings at its £16m 'campus' HQ in Horsham than worrying about sick animals:
www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1402352/RSPCA-millions-go-on-politics-and-HQ.html
I have the impression the National Trust is a little better focused.
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Lots of people including presumably many who are happy to eat intensively reared meat are sentimental about animals and the RSPCA is always well funded, like the Guide Dogs. I wouldn't consider giving them anything while they are spending so much campaigning generally.
The National Trust I perceive to be very up itself, but I enjoy visiting their estates and properties, and the subscription is good value for us, so I don't consider it a charitable donation. I think we'd lose a lot without it.
There's a bit of a kerfuffle going on about tax relief on charitable donations at the moment. TBH it seems illogical to me anyway. In effect it's the taxpayer funding charities which seems a contradiction - every time a philanthropist donates £1m to charity and gets 50% relief, Taxes elsewhere have to go up £0.5m to cover the loss to the exchequer.
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The trouble is you probably aren't talking the the RNIB but to some call centre outfit who get paid directly or indirectly on sign ups or increases. Hopefully the RNIB are bright enough not to pay then for the increases and new sign ups when they are losing donors at the same time.
I only ever donate direct unless it's a quid to an obvious volunteer shaking a tin or a local charity event where I know what's going on.
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Charity for me, begins and ends at home.
I do buy a poppy come November, but that's it.
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I only donate top charities where >75% of the monies raised go to the cause, NOT to admin/advertising etc.
That solves a lot of decision making..
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Always worth digging a bit to see where the money goes, and what exactly you are contributing to, and whether they really need it. Last time I looked Guide Dogs for the Blind (not RNIB) had over £50m annual income to maintain about 5,000 dogs IIRC- seemed plenty to me, but they do very well from legacies apparently.
About half went on salaries but that's not really "admin" in their case - they have full time people breeding and training the pooches. I decided there were needier causes.
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>> Charity for me, begins and ends at home.
Indeed.
And I treat charity workers who come to my home in the same way as I treat Jehoovers' Witnesses. Twice I'm polite, and explain that I am not interested... then I tell them to make a sexual departure.
>> I do buy a poppy come November, but that's it.
>>
>>
Yep. I normally buy a dozen, and distribute to the lads in the office who served.
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>>call centre outfit who get paid directly or indirectly
Possibly, - but I have found since cancelling the DD, that once they have had their "hooks" in you, they are reluctant to let go!
Before we set-up the DD, a "refined-voiced" lady used to ring about twice a year asking if We could sell a few raffle tickets for their Easter/Xmas draws, they used to send Two books of Ten tickets, now, they dont ring, but we still receive Two books of tickets, now there are 20 tickets per book!! They have also sent us "free of charge" a cardboard "penny-box" for all our spare "coppers" and are expected to fill it and send it to them!
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>>I politely informed them that their greed had just lost them the existing donation, and >>next day, changed it
My wife made a direct debit donation to a national charity last Christmas, and since then has received a fair bit of correspondence from them followed by a telephone call asking if she would like to take part in a survey. She said that she would be more than happy to help out by answering a few questions, but very politely added that no further donation would be available until December.
CLICK... the line went dead, and she has heard nothing from them since.
Needless to say, they will receive no more donations from the CS household.
Last edited by: Clk Sec on Sat 14 Apr 12 at 13:34
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>> We don't get much of this fortunately, our address is probably known as scrooge central
>> in their circle.
They never get past the man traps and ......
www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD6lN9FEHao
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One of the (many) benefits of living up ere is that in the 12 months we've lived here we've not had a single cold (or hot caller.
Living in a rural farming area and having a Beware of the Bull sign on my 5 bar gate helps.
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Since the RSPCA have not been forthcoming with advice or assistance on the two occasions I have requested it over the years, they get no donations form me.
So there...
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It is rather typical of British priorities that we have Royal support for animals but only National support for children. Given a choice for giving money I would tend to support children before animals although all cruelty is reprehensible.
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Overkill! Beware of the Dog should do the trick! >:)
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Diana sponsers women in Ethiopia for hospital treatment.Daughter sponsors a child in Ethiopia..A program on television about the Sudan.Heartbreaking seeing children die short of food.Any spare clohes I take to Dovehouse.
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What size shoes do you take Dutchie, just out of interest like?
;)
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I recall about 10 years ago that the RNIB were exposed as having £25m in assets and a board of directors on £300k interest free mortgages from the charity. In that year they only actually paid for 8, yes, 8, guide dogs from central funds. The remainder were paid for by local collections/fund raisers but 'supported' by the charity.
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Are you sure you aren't confusing Guide Dogs with RNIB? I remember something of the kind in relation to Guide Dogs for the Blind, though I believe they have always provided more than 8 dogs a year, or at least trained more than that.
RNIB isn't really about guide dogs. I spent a week with them about 25 years ago and was quite impressed by the people at their then London training college. I don't know about their finances though I'm pretty sure they have less money than guide dogs, and their scope is wider. I'm sure things have changed a lot - in 1987 they were still training blind and partially sighted people as switchboard operators, I'm not sure that happens now.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sat 14 Apr 12 at 18:39
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It was the £25m in assets and directors on interest free loans that got me. I was talking to a surf instructor in Cornwall last year. He told me that the RNIB is the UK's richest charity - £500m in assets.
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My stock answer to doorstep sellers, cold callers and street chuggers is, "If what you want requires me to part with any money, now or at any time in the future you haven't got a prayer mate".
Kills the attempt stone dead.
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When my mother in law died, she had left money to a couple of charities.
Her estate was pretty simple and didn't take long to sort out; as soon as it had been then the money was distributed. My husband was the executor.
About one month after she died he received a letter from one of the charities demanding to know when they would get the money which they were owed. Condolences on your loss made it into paragraph 3.
Needless to say, they will never get anything more from any of our family.
My mother has also experienced this over the years and so has changed her will and written all the charities out for this very reason.
She and I run a charity whose only income is deposit interest. We only ever give small donations but that does not stop various charities/people effectively demanding money with menaces. There obviously are good charities out there but too many give the sector a bad name. I would never donate to a chugger on the street or at the door.
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In a previous life, working at a university, it was possible for a group of us to raise £1000 and earn the privilege of naming a guide dog. Presumably that might be a ball park figure for training a dog?
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>>In a previous life,
We used to collect Silver-paper for the Guide-dog charity and roll it into a big ball!! - Do Guide dogs still want us do this?
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Being a really, really tight fisted Tyke I only support 'local' charities run predominantly by unpaid volunteers.
the idea of large charities paying loads o money to the hierarchy incences me.
Not a penny to those beggars
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>> It was the £25m in assets and directors on interest free loans that got me.
>> I was talking to a surf instructor in Cornwall last year. He told me that
>> the RNIB is the UK's richest charity - £500m in assets.
He was talking rubbish.
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Assets of the RNIB for 2010/2010 were actually less than a tenth of that figure and the vast majority is made up of property used to provide services to blind and partially sighted people.
www.rnib.org.uk/aboutus/Documents/online_annual_report_and_accounts_201011.pdf
Although not always reliable I find the internet is generally a better source of information than surf instructors ;-0
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Gents, huge pology from me, can't explain my error. I meant the RNLI.
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The RNLI has had stick in the past for mismanagement and they get a lot in legacies which has caused jealousy in other charities.
They do maintain a sensible level of reserves, which they have to do, when they have considerable standing costs and depreciation which represents the eventual cost of replacing expensive equipment. Net asset value at 2010 was £550m of which £320m was fixed assets, unsurprisingly. There's about £230m invested, and a pensions liability of £40m.
They spend about £160m a year running the show, so knocking off the pension deficit they have a bit over year's money in hand. That seems a reasonable buffer givien their commitments - they have to run and replace equipment, it's not like a charity that just exists to distribute money.
The hard question is how responsibly they spend their money.
On a smaller scale, I have in the past been asked to justify why the village hall needs to raise funds when it had more than £10,000 in the bank and when income and expenditure were about £6,000 a year. That question was answered last year when the roof was replaced at a cost of £17,000. Now the kitchen is falling to bits!
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...they get a lot in legacies...
A few years ago Sunderland got a new offshore boat paid for by a single legacy - just over £1m.
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Dutchie, excellent choice with Dove House, know a couple of the staff there, do a fantastic job with their Charity Shops!
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As some of you may be aware, I work for a local charity and it is interesting reading these comments. I, like many, detest the chuggers and in Glasgow they have actually introduced new rules limiting the number and location where the street chuggers can go.
Regarding an earlier point on only contributing where the money goes to the charity, this leads to a few questions. A few scenarios:
1. We might raise £40k in a specific appeal and this money goes towards the funding of a new nurse for a year. Therefore, that 40k, it could be argued, all goes towards "salary and admin costs"?
2. A charity might run a fundraising dinner, say a Sportsman's night. Might take in £100k but have 25k in costs between venue, speakers, prizes etc. So 75k profit. But without spending the 25k, you won't get the 75k ?
3. Depending on the structure, the profit to the specific charity from its charity shops may range from single figures (usually the National Charities), to maybe 70% where its a local charity, maybe only a few shops manned by volunteers. Typically the average is about 35% or so though. Shops have in many cases salary costs, rent, utilities, waste disposal (it costs a fortune to dispose of waste even though we don't produce any of our own!)
4. We do a lottery which is £1 per week and the prize money is only £500 top prize. But we have 15000 players playing it every week. We have reps going round the doors trying to get people to sign up and they can pay by Direct Debit or cash collection. These reps are paid commission. Again, without these staff, the charity would not get the profit of close to £1/2m that they do get. But, believe it or not, the sales pitch is to pay £1 per week to the charity and also get entered into a weekly draw. Very rarely do the people actually ask what the prize money is - they just want to help their local charity and this is where being local is very advantageous as many will know someone who has used our services.
5. Re the point made regarding the charity wanting to know when they were getting their legacy income. Although the manner in which they have appeared to do it is definitely wrong, I do believe there is something within the Regulatory rules or Accountancy rules that states that once you are aware of a legacy coming, it needs to be included in accounts in some form or another (can't remember the speccifics of the rules). This may have been the reason for the question.
Before giving to a charity, instead of asking about costs etc, I believe the question should be about their assets and reserves. Some charities are sitting with obscene amounts of money with no plans to spend any of it. Thankfully, most of the trusts / legacies etc which are available now scrutinise accounts before giving any Grants.
Finally, probably the most cost efficient method of giving a donation is to go to the charity itself and hand over cash or credit card but even those will incur fees with admin staff having to process it!
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>>
>> 5. Re the point made regarding the charity wanting to know when they were getting
>> their legacy income. Although the manner in which they have appeared to do it is
>> definitely wrong, I do believe there is something within the Regulatory rules or Accountancy rules
>> that states that once you are aware of a legacy coming, it needs to be
>> included in accounts in some form or another (can't remember the speccifics of the rules).
>> This may have been the reason for the question.
>>
We wouldn't have had a problem with a polite letter, expressing condolences first, and then giving us details of where to send the donation in case we didn't already know that. It was the speed and the tone of the letter which grated.
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I dropped some clothes off at a local charity shop the other day. The old dear behind the counter was very keen for me to sign a form so they could claim some tax back.
I knew that they could do that on cash donations, but not on donation of goods.
I suppose they can claim the tax on the amount they sell it for.
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Exactly SS, we can claim Gift Aid back on the value but we need the infrastructure in place which costs money.
We need to identify that black bin bag as yours, then label each item as yours and then when we sell them through the till, it keeps a running total of your value.
To do this we need a system in place that tracks this (usually computerised tills and barcodes).
On the downside, as the amount we make is unknown at the time you hand in the bag, we must write to you and ask your permission to keep the money!
In other words, we sell all your stuff for £100, we must then write to you and say "thank you for your donations which have realised £100" Are you happy for us to keep this as a donation? You, as the donator, have the right to say that you have changed your mind and want your money back!! Charity can then only deduct a commission / admin fee and give you the rest of your money back!
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>> In other words, we sell all your stuff for £100, we must then write to
>> you and say "thank you for your donations which have realised £100" Are you happy
>> for us to keep this as a donation? You, as the donator, have the right
>> to say that you have changed your mind and want your money back!! Charity can
>> then only deduct a commission / admin fee and give you the rest of your
>> money back!
Sounds like a real pain for you guys, but I'd be fascinated to find out exactly how much my stuff sold for! :)
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I believe (one of) the wealthiest charity(ies) is RSPCA.
Anyone care to comment?
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Bar chart of RSPCA Income/outgoings towards the end of this long document
tinyurl.com/cqscuyd
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Oxbridge colleges are charities...
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As are most public schools.
They have been berated in recent years for not offering enough scholarships to poorer students.
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Beware of charity "churners" - Meldrew
