what an asshat - swimming in the way to make whatever point he wishes to make!
Maybe it is that defrocked priest who made an ass of himelf at the grand prix a few years back, and then later at the Athens Olympics.
Morons like that deserve to be depth-charged.
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Oooh no! - Have you any idea of the disgusting crap that lies at the bottom of the Thames? 30 feet in the air? oooo no no no.
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Let the crews get morosely drunk together, then shove the swimmer into the pub and lock the doors. He will probably survive, but will never want to do anything like that ever again.
Smirking prat. Really deserves a kicking.
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>> Oooh no! - Have you any idea of the disgusting crap that lies at the
>> bottom of the Thames? 30 feet in the air? oooo no no no.
>>
I thought you lot get that stuff out of your taps. :-)
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we will if someone stirs it up!
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I don't usually watch this ridiculous out-dated traditon but caught it quite by accident whilst trolling thro' the Freeview channels. Best outcome I could have imagined and made for a bit of excitement in what is otherwise a very tedious annual event.
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>> Best outcome I could have imagined and made for a
>> bit of excitement in what is otherwise a very tedious annual event.
>>
Next year they'll issue both crews with cutlasses.
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>> what an asshat - swimming in the way to make whatever point he wishes to make!
Typical! Always someone wanting to stick their oar in.
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These protesters! What a bunch of cox!
(If he'd been hit with an oar, would he suffer a scull fracture?)
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>> If he'd been hit with an oar, would he suffer a scull fracture?
Might have made a mess of his boat race (face)
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"British media later identified him as an activist named Trenton Oldfield and published a statement he had purportedly posted on the Internet titled: "Elitism leads to tyranny."
"I am swimming into the boats in the hope I can stop them from completing the race and proposing the return of surprise tactics," he apparently wrote.
Git.
Now, had he done the old suffragette thing, of leaping under a racehorse, I would have said 'fair dos, mate!' as he was stretchered off to the morgue.
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I suppose the best we can wish for, is him getting a bad case of the Rodney's.....
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Not that I had money on it but what did the bookies do about paying out, or not, as the case may be?
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Force majeur would only apply had the race been abandoned. All bets would then be off.
The final result (Cambridge) stands, as the event eventually finished, and was deemed a 'result' by the umpire/ref/whetever they call them is rowing.
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I hope the bookies sue him for any losses, he claims to be rich so must have some assets, unlike the usual idiots.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sat 7 Apr 12 at 18:53
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OldNavy, I suspect that a fair few folk will be queueing up to have a pop at him financially - those satellite transmissions don't come cheap, so the Beeb and the rest, plus the rozzers, RNLI etc etc etc will want their pound of flesh.
Also, I suspect 'an example will be made' - something a tad more serious than an ASBO - pour encourager les autres, and all that.
Otherwise we'll have the world and its mother jumping into the Thames next year, or disrupting Olympic marathons, cycling etc.
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I hope so, pity they don't do it more often.
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I thought it livened up a boring event
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Exactly what law has he broken? Breach of the peace maybe?
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It'll be a public order offence - probably Section 5. Can be given a fixed penalty for it.
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>> I thought it livened up a boring event
>>
Attending is not compulsory, Z, and your TV has an off switch.
You could pick a fight in an empty room. :-)
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>> >> I thought it livened up a boring event
>> >>
>>
>> Attending is not compulsory, Z, and your TV has an off switch.
>>
>> You could pick a fight in an empty room. :-)
I wasn't watching it till someone called my attention to it.
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>> I thought it livened up a boring event
It often is a bit boring. But it's the world's oldest sporting event.
I wonder Zeddo if you would take the same attitude to an idiot naked streaker in the middle of a premier league or intenational footer game?
I suppose you might in anarchist mode, although many others wouldn't. But if you'd ever done competitive rowing on any level you would understand that the crews might feel a bit murderous. No sport is more supremely knackering.
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>> >> I thought it livened up a boring event
>>
>> It often is a bit boring. But it's the world's oldest sporting event.
>>
>> I wonder Zeddo if you would take the same attitude to an idiot naked streaker
>> in the middle of a premier league or intenational footer game?
Yup, I loved it when that erica big jugs ran out
>> done competitive rowing on any level you would understand that the crews might feel a
>> bit murderous. No sport is more supremely knackering.
I would have more sympathy with the event if it wasn't full of yanks, just shipped over to bulk up the crews.
And it is boring - supremely. I don't care how old it is. The eton wall game is older and has more action.
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>>Yup, I loved it when that erica big jugs ran out
Roe.
Not quite the same - the boat race was effectively wiped out. Shame Trenton didn't get belted with a blade.
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Might well have wanted that, bit more publicity. They did restart so wasn't quite wiped out. TBH when something like this happens it is the most publicity rowing gets all year, how many more people watch the highlights when something of a cock up happens?
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sat 7 Apr 12 at 19:47
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>> >>Yup, I loved it when that erica big jugs ran out
>>
>> Roe.
>>
>> Not quite the same - the boat race was effectively wiped out.
But it wasn't was it. It had a new dimension. A sprint in effect, testing the crews stamina and recovery abilities like nothing they have had to do before. It tested shredded nerves - All in all something radically different, and if they oxford cox had not been so panic stricken and tried to barge the cambridge crew out of the way and broken a blade, an interesting race could have ensued, and a victory would have been probably all the sweeter.
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>>oxford cox had not been so panic stricken and tried to barge the cambridge crew out of the way
Not mentioning of course that thats what happens if you have a woman driver!
(emergency smilies!! ;-) ;-) )
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>> But it wasn't was it. It had a new dimension. A sprint in effect, testing
>> the crews stamina and recovery abilities like nothing they have had to do before. It
>> tested shredded nerves - All in all something radically different, and if they oxford cox
>> had not been so panic stricken and tried to barge the cambridge crew out of
>> the way and broken a blade, an interesting race could have ensued, and a victory
>> would have been probably all the sweeter.
>>
^^ Wot he said.
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>> I would have more sympathy with the event if it wasn't full of yanks, just shipped over to bulk up the crews.
OFFS Zeddo. You're being a humbug. No way are you a doughty defender of the pure amateur ideal in sport or anywhere else. All amateur sport has seen a bit of that sort of thing over the years. Anyway there were two Americans and a German in the Oxford boat I think, the rest being British. The Cambridge boat had an Aussie or two. People from these countries go to Oxbridge anyway. If they go partly to do sport, where's the harm?
You're just being a devil's advocate, trying to make out that disrupting something - not an empty spectacle for empty-headed spectators who want to be entertained, but a real sporting competition - for the sort of faffing prattish reason given is merely amusing. It may be to the empty-headed spectator, but it isn't to those involved. I hope they jump on this carphound, and I bet you do too in your heart of hearts.
I've despised and avoided sport all my life, mainly out of idleness and bolshiness, but I really detest people like that swimmer. I wish he'd had his head sliced in half. He deserved it. Tchah!
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Listen AC, the boat race is B O R I N G. It lacks most of the qualities that makes sport exciting. At least today added an air of unpredictability and drama that it usually lacks.
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>> It lacks most of the qualities that makes sport exciting.
Anyone can say any sport is boring, but all they mean really is that it bores them. What you mean by 'the qualities that make sport exciting' is a few qualities that you think make the sport you happen to like exciting. Perhaps all you mean is the sort of things that make an empty, ever-changing spectacle for the gum-chewing multitudes; perhaps you mean some features of some sport that you actually know enough about to enjoy.
Boat races tend to be boring when one crew leads convincingly from the start. However the bends in the river, and crew strategies sometimes, can make closely-fought contests interesting to, er, those who are interested. You might wish in practice for some understanding of that from people who aren't so interested, rather than a yobbish and ignorant bawling to the effect that a disruption in mid-race made the race unpredictable and dramatic. What it actually did was ruin the race, and the crews thought so.
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And exactly, when prey, was the most closely fought and interesting race? Hmmm?
Are you calling me yobbish and brawling and ignorant? I believe you are. Thats rich coming from a snobbish overblown pretentious sponger.
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I am sorry you think so poorly of me Zero.
I did imply that your posts were ignorant, wilfully so of course, when you thoughtlessly claimed that this disruption of a supreme effort by 20 or so athletes would make an essentially boring spectacle interesting for once, as if the sodding spectacle were the sodding point. And the thoughtless claim, repeated, did somehow suggest yobbish bawling (not brawling).
Really if you insist on taking a richly-deserved telling off as a threat to your manhood I may be forced to think less well of you.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 24 Nov 15 at 10:30
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>> I am sorry you think so poorly of me Zero.
>>
>> I did imply that your posts were ignorant, wilfully so of course, when you thoughtlessly
>> claimed that this disruption of a supreme effort by 20 or so athletes would make
>> an essentially boring spectacle interesting for once, as if the sodding spectacle were the sodding
>> point. And the thoughtless claim, repeated, did somehow suggest yobbish bawling (not brawling).
>>
>> Really if you insist on taking a richly-deserved telling off as a threat to your manhood
>> I may be forced to think less well of you.
Of course I think so poorly of you when you vociferously defend what you admit is mostly a boring sport, and then blindly claim that someone is being wilfully thoughtless when they say they find it boring. You can't have it both ways. Most university boat races are boring sporting events. There is little in the way of tension, drama, uncertainty, things that make human drama.
You mention he spectacle, of course its all about the spectacle. The swimmer, the restart, the broken oar, all adds to the spectacle, the folklore, the records. It has to because that all the event has - History.
And as to threats to my manhood? what a ridiculous statement. I slapped you because you were being a snob. Its a deeply unattractive trait.
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 24 Nov 15 at 10:30
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>> blindly claim that someone is being wilfully thoughtless when they say they find it boring.
Not so. You can be bored by rowing as I am generally by football and all its attendant faff. I did imply that you were being ignorant when you thoughtlessly claimed the disruption made the boat race interesting for once.
Interesting to whom? People who see it merely as a spectacle, a boring one, without any real thought for what lies behind the non-spectacle, what the actual sport involves and means to the participants.
But so what eh? That's just suffering for a bunch of toffs and seven-foot-tall American mercenaries, so it doesn't count to the guzzling, bawling, yobbish consumer of TV spectacle. Not enough goals! Too much rowing!
If you're bored by it don't watch it Zeddo. Don't sound off about it and make yourself sound a prat.
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I did say, had you bothered to read further up the post, that I didn't watch it. Only when it was pointed out to me that drama was taking place did I take an interest.
But of course, now I am a prat. I am really not prepared to bandy insults with you AC. You can have this thread to yourself.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 7 Apr 12 at 23:56
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YEE-hah!
Another flouncette. Our second I think.
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>> YEE-hah!
>>
>> Another flouncette. Our second I think.
Not a flouncette, merely a desire to keep the thread clear of the insults that you decided to hurl around.
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>> merely a desire to keep the thread clear of the insults that you decided to hurl around.
Criticisms my dear, criticisms. But your wish to keep the thread clean is eminently praiseworthy as far as it goes.
Would that we could all tell the difference between criticism and insult Zero (and calling it a slap doesn't make it not an insult). Never mind, you'll improve with age I'm sure.
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>> Would that we could all tell the difference between criticism and insult Zero
One would have thought at your age you would have learned. But clearly you think you can flower your insults and attempt to smarmily hide behind them as "criticism" It doesn't wash AC, as you yourself said "you implied".
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>> smarmily hide behind them as "criticism"
Nothing smarmy about the criticisms as you seem to have noticed. Nevertheless criticisms is what they were, referring specifically to your discourse and the implicit attitudes behind it. But the quite acerbic references to yobbish ignorant bawling were separated from you, narrowly of course since they were directed at you, so that you could back off the yobbish ignorant bawling and show some intelligent person's insight into the sport. You didn't do that though. You asked pugnaciously if I was calling you a yobbish ignorant brawler and then called me with admirable directness something fairly disobliging, slightly over the top I felt.
Even irrepressible smartasses have to be wrong sometimes. Only the cane will sort them out.
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You just wont let it go will you.
It doesn't matter how smarmily - yes smarmy, and snidey describes it accurately, you hide behind your discourse using phrases such as "implicit attitudes", and "narrow separation" you were quite simply calling me names, but you have an inane, blustering, blathering cowardly inability to admit it.
I tried and offered to let the matter die on the vine here, but you couldn't could you. Thats fine, bluster and blather away, the mods will wipe it all eventually, and your over flowery diatribe won't be here for people to coo and sigh over, adulation you so clearly crave.
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>> the mods will wipe it all eventually
You must be hoping so Zero. I would be if I had posted some of the stuff you've put here.
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No I am perfectly happy for it to stand. I wouldn't have put it otherwise.
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To see you have a go at each oher does inprove my language skills in a strange way.Zero and A.C.I like you both at least you can't beat a opinion.>:)
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As so often in this event another one sided affair . I'm afraid after an aggressive start the boat on the Surrey side showed their lack of experience and stamina and pulled up short, having no more to give and clearly out-manouevered and out classed by the opposition.
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You know nothing of the sport, merely one of the drunken spectators.
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Not quite AC
"From its inception to the current date (2009), 300 meetings of the Antient Silver Arrow competition have taken place, with over 100 archers competing in the May 2009 event.
The first competition was held on Sunday 14 May 1673, with 22 archers from the North Riding of Yorkshire and South Durham taking place. The competition was won by Henry Calverley of Eryholme–on–Tees."
There is also the Dogget's Coat and Badge Race (rowing on the Thames) which has been held since 1715
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I hope there's something very unpleasant they can charge him with, considering the number of people's day he ruined.
Oldgit and anybody else who think this sort of thing livens an event up should try not watching things they find "tedious", and hope that their pastimes aren't similarly disrupted by people who don't share their tastes.
Rather humourless I know, but daughter is a keen competitive rower and I know how much goes into even club rowing, and how badly the crews and their supporters will take it.
The Oxford bow, Alex Woods, actually collapsed at the eventual finish and is in hospital.
Quote from the president of OUBC -
""Would like to start by saying that Alex Woods is conscious and will hopefully be OK.
"I'm proud of everyone in the team and how they rowed. They were a credit to themselves and their university.
"Finally to Trenton Oldfiled (sic); my team went through seven months of hell, this was the culmination of our careers and you took it from us."
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>> "Finally to Trenton Oldfiled (sic); my team went through seven months of hell, this was
>> the culmination of our careers and you took it from us."
And here was I under the misapprehension that people went to university to learn stuff.
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...And here was I under the misapprehension that people went to university to learn stuff...
Same misapprehension as the idiot swimmer.
The rowers are as much elite sportsmen as they are privileged students.
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Exactly, a University boat crew should not be made up of such mercenaries, bribed to compete for one team or the other.
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>> Exactly, a University boat crew should not be made up of such mercenaries, bribed to
>> compete for one team or the other.
>>
Exactly correct: for once we agree, Zero.
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>> >> Exactly, a University boat crew should not be made up of such mercenaries, bribed
>> to
>> >> compete for one team or the other.
>> >>
>>
>> Exactly correct: for once we agree, Zero.
It's a point of view but there's plenty going on at the lower levels. The university boat race squads are inevitably in a different class from most ordinary college boat club rowers who are generally of a pretty low standard - most haven't rowed before college and only row at all in term time. Girl is a much better rower now than when she was in college, both in fitness and technique, and now does a fair bit of coaching including for her old college boat club. Still a long long way off UBR levels though.
For something a bit less "professional" I can recommend a day at Womens' Henley if the weather's good www.hwr.org.uk/ (a couple of weeks before the Royal Regatta where you can't move for hoorays, corporate hostility, and binge drinking parties). It's free and there's a good atmosphere with probably a majority of the spectators having a personal interest or involvment of some kind. You'll probably see Matthew Pinsent doing lowly boat inspections (scrutineering) - he seems to like being involved in the grass roots of the sport.
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at one stage i thought they were going to bring out the safety boat (car) until the hazard was cleared , elf n safety an orl that
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Extraordinarily for me we decided to chuck on a silly bet within five minutes of the start. After logging on to my ancient and not used for two years account at William Hill, I chucked a quid on Cambridge, and another on "will win by three lengths or more".
Both of those worked of course, making me about 5 quid, and when I checked the balance I discovered there was another seventy I'd long since forgotten lying there. Still don't remember where that came from. Poker perhaps? Anyway, hit the withdraw button to empty it and here's hoping it turns up in the bank!
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I wonder if finding forgotten money like that gives one a moral imperative to donate it to charidee?
I'll see if it ever turns up first.
Last edited by: Crankcase on Sat 7 Apr 12 at 21:20
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if you would have left it languishing too long in your account cameron would have probably helped himself
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Rowing isn't everything. Hugh Laurie was in a losing team in 1980 I believe (found this):
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIN_JjfAW7M
But a bought of illness then had him get involved in the Cambridge Footlights because he couldn't row.... the rest we all probably know.
But one does wonder if he got to Cambridge because he was a good rower (training 8 hours a day when rowing) and whether academically he should have been there :-)
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sat 7 Apr 12 at 22:27
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Most entertaining boat race since the Cambridge boat sank in 1984 before the race even started.
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Quite so DP. The late night discourse above was fairly amusing too ! A perhaps not terribly astonishing correllation between mutual loss of dignity and the likelyhood of having toasted Easter once or perhaps even twice too often I'll wager !
Still, it entertained me rather more than the Andrew Marr show this morning.
:-))
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The point of the Boat Race is to have a race. That was ruined by a vandal who deserves an ASBO, not applause.
The point was not to entertain people with no interest in the above, who should take themselves off to the pictures or the football, or mow the lawn.
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Oxford asking for a re-row, allegedly
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After they passed the swimmer, and established that he was still alive, why didn't they just carry on with the race and award a distance-lost handicap if necessary?
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>> After they passed the swimmer, and established that he was still alive, why didn't they
>> just carry on with the race and award a distance-lost handicap if necessary?
>>
>>
>>
>>
I suspect the organisers were a bit concerned that the swimmer might get chewed up by the Tupperware navy following the race. Not good PR on live TV. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 8 Apr 12 at 12:22
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>> Oxford asking for a re-row, allegedly
After the restart, all you could hear in the background was the referee shouting 'Oxford!' trying to get them to stop barging into Cambridge. Fair result.
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i wouldn't say vandal. Bit strong, protesting so the maximum amount of people see it is the whole point. Little point protesting in a cupboard muttering to yourself. Who knows what he is protesting about may be ( i don't know) more important than the precise rules and outcome of a boat race.
Last edited by: sooty123 on Sun 8 Apr 12 at 12:00
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>> i wouldn't say vandal. Bit strong, protesting so the maximum amount of people see it
>> is the whole point.
You don't need to write off an occasion for a large number of people in order to protest. If we all did that it would be impossible ever to organise any large scale or public event.
Free speech obtains here. It's in the same category as digging up a test match wicket.
>>Who knows what he is protesting about may be ( i don't know) more important than the
>> precise rules and outcome of a boat race.
Since you don't appear to know what he was protesting about (nor do I) your excuse for him has shot itself in the foot.
Anyway, I'm trying to get over my sense of humour failure, and disappointment at the puerile attitude of some apparently intelligent people here to what is essentially selfish and anti-social behaviour, presumably because it was inflicted on some people they didn't care about.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 8 Apr 12 at 14:24
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He was protesting against "Elitism" - apparently, and posted some incomprehensible drivel on his website about his protest.
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Just to be clear, I wasn't entertained or amused by the rogue swimmer, he was an idiot.
No, I was only making passing reference to certain honoured forum members almost certainly in their cups at the time falling out over it ! It was like a virtual outing to the back car park of the Dog and Duck at closing time ! Teeth, hair and handbags aplenty... I expect they'll kiss and make up in due course. Hope so anyway.
:-)
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As a fellow virtual observer of the midnight fracas I would endorse Humph's view. The protester in the original event was a complete idiot who disrupted major sporting event for no real reason apart from his own desire for a moment of attention.
The virtual fight in the car park was certainly entertaining but in the end disappointing. Mr Z's determination to stand by an obviously unsupportable position no matter what simply because his ego gets in the way of a retraction or apology does him no favours.
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>> Mr Z's determination to stand by an obviously unsupportable position
Which of course depends on your position, and opinion.
>>no matter what simply because
>> his ego gets in the way of a retraction or apology does him no favours.
I have nothing to apologise for, nor do I need, or seek your approval, whatever value or otherwise that may carry. I also have no ego to feed, but nor will I stand by and allow thinly disguised personal insults to pass me by.
As far as the protestor goes, clearly he was an idiot. Achieved national coverage beyond his dreams but had no real backup, follow on or message to carry. Complete waste.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 8 Apr 12 at 15:44
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>> I have nothing to apologise for
Several things actually, but let it pass, let it pass.
>> I also have no ego to feed
The one you have certainly doesn't need feeding.
>> nor will I stand by and allow thinly disguised personal insults to pass me by.
Strangely sensitive, in one so lavish with thickly blatant and wild personal insults.
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>> Strangely sensitive, in one so lavish with thickly blatant and wild personal insults.
Oh I see, you are allowed to be offended, but I am strangely sensitive.
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>> you are allowed to be offended, but I am strangely sensitive.
If you like, yes. I was twitting you quite sharply for your uncharacteristic idiocy in refusing to acknowledge the boat race as a manifestation of a genuine sport and your insistence on discussing it purely as a meaningless, usually boring TV spectacle.
You were levelling quite rude personal insults at me rather than addressing what I had said. Who was it who said somewhere upthread 'you can't have it both ways'?
Huge juicy raspberry.
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Armel and Zero, if you two must protest so much...go do it in the thames
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The drivel the protester wrote was :
"The boat race itself, with its pseudo competition, assembled around similar principles of fastest, strongest, selected ...etc, is an inconsequential backdrop for these elite educational institutions to demonstrate themselves, reboot their shared culture together in the public realm."
Not sure how the race can be described as 'pseudo' but am sure someone will enlighten me! As he applied to, was selected by and then attended the LSE, I am not sure how he stands on the grounds of pot and kettle?
Furthermore, as all Olympians are the elite in their chosen field, I presume this chap is going to be very busy this summer hurling himself where he is not wanted?
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Or hopefully given an ASBO and an electronic tag/curfew to keep him away from all Olympic events.
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>> Or hopefully given an ASBO and an electronic tag/curfew to keep him away from all
>> Olympic events.
I had to view that threaded to be clear you were not talking about Armel and/or Zero!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sun 8 Apr 12 at 18:06
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>> >> talking about Armel
>> and/or Zero!!
>>
I think they should have a re-run, but try and steer clear of bashing each other with their oars this time.
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Can they not just put a bigger space between the two boats to prevent that?
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Lifted from Sky News.
The boat race is not the only major sporting event to have been disrupted by protests.
In 2004, defrocked Irish priest Neil Horan attacked Brazilian marathon runner Vanderlei de Lima about two miles from the end of the Olympic marathon race in Athens.
A year earlier he ran onto the track during the British Grand Prix at Silverstone.
The 1997 Grand National was postponed when two coded bomb threats were received from the provisional IRA.
Police evacuated jockeys, race personnel and local residents along with 60,000 spectators.
The race was eventually run 48 hours later.
In 1995, Jeff Tarango stormed out of Wimbledon during his third-round match in the men's singles because he felt the umpire was ruling in his opponent's favour.
"That's it, I'm not playing!" he shouted, then screamed "Shut up!" at the crowd when they booed him. He was thrown out of the tournament.
A football match between Derby and Fulham was never concluded in 1983 after Derby fans invaded the pitch.
The match was not replayed and the result, a 1-0 defeat for Fulham, stood, keeping them from being promoted back to the first division.
In 1972, eight Palestinian terrorists broke into the Olympic village in Munich, taking hostages and eventually killing 11 Israeli athletes and coaches and a West German policeman.
As a result, competition was suspended for the first time in Olympic history. Several teams left the Games after the incident.
During the 1971 Springbok rugby union tour, hundreds of demonstrators were arrested after they tried to disrupt test matches between the Springboks and Australia to protest South Africa's racist apartheid policies.
Some people even attempted to saw down goal posts and dig trenches in the surface at the Sydney cricket ground to try to stop a test match going ahead.
In Queensland, a state of emergency was issued because of fears prompted by the behaviour of people at the previous tests.
It is debatable whether Emily Davidson intended to become a martyr at the 1913 Derby, but that is what happened.
The 41-year-old suffragette ran on to the course during the race and was trampled by Anmer, the king's horse, when it came round Tattenham Corner.
Were none, some, most or all of those protests justified?
If it is worthy to throw oneself under the King's horse, then it could be argued that any disruption of any event is justified if one feels strongly enough about a cause.
Or not, as the case maybe.
Last edited by: Duncan on Mon 9 Apr 12 at 09:28
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>>Some people even attempted to saw down goal posts and dig trenches in the surface at the Sydney cricket ground to try to stop a test match going ahead.
Goal posts?
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>> Goal posts?
>>
I dunno? Was it a rugby game being played at the cricket ground?
As I said it was lifted from Sky. The last few lines are mine.
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Some international rugby games are called 'tests'.
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The SCG is / has been used for Cricket, Aussie Rules, Rugby League and Rugby Union.
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Headingly was dug up in 1975 stopping an England/Australia test:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Davis_%28robber%29#Public_activism
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Trenton Oldfield trial under way:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19697226
Opening the case, Mr Mably told jurors at Isleworth Crown Court, west London, the annual event was spoiled not only for the rowing crews but the spectators watching at home on BBC TV and along the course.
He said despite it continuing, "so far as the Boat Race was concerned, Mr Oldfield had obviously caused chaos".
Mr Mably added: "The feeling of disappointment was obvious - because not only had everything been delayed but the crews and the public had been denied a natural conclusion to the race that they had come to the river to see."
He said after being rescued from the river Mr Oldfield was detained by police who asked him why he had jumped in the water.
Mr Mably said: "He replied that he was protesting about elitism.
"Exactly what he meant by that - who knows?"
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Wonder if he got Legal Aid..?
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Buoyancy Aid might have been better?
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Crown Court for and all the associated expense, for what was basically a public disorder offence? Why couldn`t Magistrates deal with it?
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Probably opted for CC trial.
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Wish we had a legal system which allowed the judge to say something like this...
"Aye well son, you clearly like to swim, well here's what's going to happen now. First you'll be put on a cross channel ferry and when it gets halfway..."
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Mon 24 Sep 12 at 20:26
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Yeah! - bring back the sentence of "Walking the plank"! ;-)
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Guilty of "causing a public nuisance".
I thought oh yes, a fine then, slap on the wrist.
Then I saw the sentencing guidelines (well, relevant case law section actually) for it.
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/public_nuisance/
Last edited by: Crankcase on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 15:02
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BTW where's our court correspondent (Iffy) gone? No posts for nearly a fortnight.
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>> where's our court correspondent (Iffy) gone? No posts for nearly a fortnight.
Yorkshire floods keeping him occupied? Isn't his caravan in those parts?
Hope the hip hop's holding out Iffers.
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I think the guy's an utter prat, but I hope he doesn't get nine years!
Custodial doesn't really fit the crime either. A few months of earnest, supervised street-cleaning or something of the sort would seem appropriate. Let him protest against elitism by making himself useful. He can see it as exposing the uselessness of the elite, win-win eh?
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 26 Sep 12 at 15:08
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>> I think the guy's an utter prat, but I hope he doesn't get nine years!
>>
>>
>> Custodial doesn't really fit the crime either. A few months of earnest, supervised street-cleaning or
>> something of the sort would seem appropriate. Let him protest against elitism by making himself
>> useful. He can see it as exposing the uselessness of the elite, win-win eh?
>>
Anyone so damned selfish that they are willing to utterly ruin the lawful entertainment of many hundreds of thousands of people, as well as the sporting endeavours of a few top athletes, really ought to be doing some porridge, to remind them of their responsibilities to other people.
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>> Anyone so damned selfish that they are willing to utterly ruin the lawful entertainment of
>> many hundreds of thousands of people, as well as the sporting endeavours of a few
>> top athletes, really ought to be doing some porridge, to remind them of their responsibilities
>> to other people.
>>
Agree 100%.
I alluded above to that mad Irish defrocked priest, who was let loose after running down the straight at Silverstone(?) a few years back, and then turned up at the Athens Olympics, where he tackled the leading marathon runner.
Also, many golf fans will recall the headcase with rainbow afro and JOHN 3:16 sign who always turned up at major PGA events. And was later jailed for kidnapping.
If this boatrace moron gets off with a fine/suspended sentnce/asbo, then he'll turn up to disrupt something else, no doubt.
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>> If this boatrace moron gets off with a fine/suspended sentnce/asbo, then he'll turn up to
>> disrupt something else, no doubt.
>>
With absolute inevitability.
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>> If this boatrace moron gets off with a fine/suspended sentnce/asbo, then he'll turn up to disrupt something else, no doubt.
Not if it was made clear to him that he would get three years without the option if he ever did something like that again, surely? But perhaps you and Westpig are right. Unpaid community service in this country may be too kind. What we need is something a bit more Louisiana chain-gang like.
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Bring back the birch!
Armel, many are prepared to be martyrs to the cause, and give it 'you can lock up my body, but can't chain my thoughts' nonsense. Until they have their first taste of porridge - and I don't mean an over-nighter in the police cells.
Never nice, that.
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>> What we
>> need is something a bit more Louisiana chain-gang like.
>>
See now i'd accept that as an alternative to prison. Great big dungarees with PRISONER written on them. Picking up litter or tidying up old biddy's gardens.
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Oi, less of the old biddy, I'll have some respect from you, you man!
Pat
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>> Great big dungarees with PRISONER written on them. Picking up litter or tidying up old biddy's gardens.
... and mean ugly redneck guards standing over you with electric cattle prods...
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>> >> ... and mean ugly redneck guards standing over you with electric cattle prods...
>>
See. I knew i'd win you old liberals over one day.
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>> to remind them of their responsibilities to other people. <<
Community service in every free moment he isn't working, for the next 2 years would do that, and do us all more good.
Pat
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>>Community service in every free moment he isn't working, for the next 2 years would do that, and do us all more good.
+1.
+1,000,000 if I could.
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>> +1,000,000 if I could.
>>
You just have?
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Cleaning the bogs, doing donkey work, and carrying stuff about at the local rowing club?
maybe he'll then realise it isn't just 'privileged toffs' who row.
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>> maybe he'll then realise it isn't just 'privileged toffs' who row.
>>
Wouldn't matter to me if it was. Why shouldn't people enjoy their past times, whoever they are?
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Just suggesting the punishment fit the crime, WestPig!
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>> Anyone so damned selfish that they are willing to utterly ruin the lawful entertainment of
>> many hundreds of thousands of people, as well as the sporting endeavours of a few
>> top athletes, really ought to be doing some porridge, to remind them of their responsibilities
>> to other people.
Cobblers. He went for a swim in the Thames, He is not Abul Hamza.
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>> >> Cobblers. He went for a swim in the Thames, He is not Abul Hamza.
>>
I'm not rising to that bait. You very well know what we did.
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Yes indeed, and its not porridge stuff, not by a long way.
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>> Yes indeed, and its not porridge stuff, not by a long way.
>>
I think it is....for the extreme selfishness and the effect on others, not for the actual deed itself.
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I disagree with you, but hey thats life
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Zero is on record as saying this swimming guy livened up a boring event and going on to insist, not that that was what he thought, but that it was so, so there.
Perhaps he thinks the guy should be rewarded with his own campaigning TV show. If the guy is, Zero should be forced to watch it to teach him the meaning of boredom.
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I was fairly indignant at the time and still think he needs 'educating', but he looks a bit of a martyr to me - threat of being sent down next time might be counterproductive.
Ridicule might be a more effective. Bring back the stocks.
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>> I think it is....for the extreme selfishness and the effect on others, not for the
>> actual deed itself.
I'm not sure he was selfish (no gain for example) but no jail territory by some distance.
Would you have had that lass who streaked her boobs at a rugger match jailed?
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>> Would you have had that lass who streaked her boobs at a rugger match jailed?
Yeah but rugger matches stop and start all the time (which is why League was invented IIRC?).
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>> no jail territory by some distance.
Dunno about the distance. 12 weeks suspended, community service with cattle prods, convincing promise of worse next time... might well do the trick.
What a twozzer though. Perhaps he knows what sensible people think by now.
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>> Would you have had that lass who streaked her boobs at a rugger match jailed?
>>
No.
I am already forgetting the names of people who were colleagues until 3 months ago, but I can still recall Erica Roe's when required in the pub quiz.
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Trenton Oldfield is a great name, he should go far.
Harmless bit of fun, a bit silly because he might have got clobbered by an oar.
I think he made his point that the boat race is run by a lot of pompous over-rated idiots who have sold out to commercial interests what should just be a friendly race between old varsity chums.
They should have just lifted their oars, coasted past him, and carried on.
Last edited by: Cliff Pope on Sat 29 Sep 12 at 09:17
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The problem with that Cliff is the "should be" - who dictates that?
Imagine you were organising a boat race in which millions of people are interested. Could you even do it without involving commercial interests?
He certainly isn't up there with serious terrorists, he's just a pitiable clot, and nobody died. But if everybody expressed their opinions that way (and he is a terrible communicator because I didn't understand his point) then life would be intolerable.
I think he should be made to listen to Max Bygraves for the rest of his life, to balance the annoyance caused accounts.
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Well said Cliff, have a green thumb on me.
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>> run by a lot of pompous over-rated idiots who have sold out to commercial interests what should just be a friendly race between old varsity chums.
In the same way that a Manchester/Liverpool cup final is run by a lot of yobbish overpaid idiots when it should be just a friendly kickabout between old footballing pals you mean CP?
'Old varsity chums' indeed! But Zero has given you a gong. He doesn't understand the boat race either, or so he pretends.
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>> He doesn't understand the
>> boat race either, or so he pretends.
>>
I don't 'get' the boat race. I never watch it. I think it is boring, as is tennis and horse racing and countless other things.
But...I'm not selfish enough to try to ruin it for all those people that do like it.
Why should selfish utter pfd get away with that? I don't understand why anyone would be so tolerant to find that acceptable.
My wife thinks cricket is the end of the world, but she doesn't try to stop me enjoying it. It's called treating others as you'd like to be treated yourself..and if you can't achieve it because you are so damned self centred then the State can step in and remind you of your responsibilities to fellow man.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 29 Sep 12 at 23:55
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>>
>> 'Old varsity chums' indeed!
>>
Yes, indeed:
"The tradition was started in 1829 by Charles Merivale, a student at St John's College, Cambridge, and his schoolfriend Charles Wordsworth who was at Oxford."
A bit like the America's Cup, another overated orgy of commercialism. Some chaps from a swank American yacht club sail over, challenge some of our lot to a race, and everyone has a good time. "We'll make it your place next time".
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But those people are dead...and there was no TV in 1829. Neither were you alive I expect.
There's nothing much to stop old varsity chums or jolly boating types having friendlies now or any time. The modern UBR or Americas cup haven't stopped them.
You could say the same of any sport I imagine.
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 30 Sep 12 at 12:02
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I'd have settled for a good birching, it would have been cheaper;-)
I just can't believe he came from Australia, then felt entitled to beggar up the Boat Race to complain about "government cuts". Pirrock.
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Abel Tasman had a look at Australia and New Zealand he came back and said no thanks.>:)
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So he goes down for six and serves three then three more tagged, is that right?
On basis that average cost of prison is £40kpa that costing us all £10k. As a short termer he'll get no rehabilitation. If he's got a job or a home he'll lose both those too.
Suspending the clink and adding 200hrs community service have been better.
Will be interesting to see if he appeals sentence.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 20 Oct 12 at 09:46
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Wonder what his immigration status is...?
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Judge, to a smirking Trenton Oldfield:
'You made your decision to sabotage the race based on the membership or perceived membership of its participants of a group to which you took exception. That is prejudice.'
There's nothing wrong with prejudice per se. Everyone has a prejudice or two.
But several people here, in this very thread, have proudly displayed the identical (ignorant, jumped-up and unpleasant) prejudice against the Oxford/Cambridge boat race, and its participants, as the twit Oldfield.
They are twits too. They know who they are. I spit on them.
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Does that make you prejudiced as well AC ? 3 months/6 months who cares ultimately ?? Why is this in the news ???
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>> 3 months/6 months who cares ultimately??
Suppose the theory is that anyone who's thinking of doing the same thing next year might :)
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>> Does that make you prejudiced as well AC ?
In this case, prejudice against ignorant unpleasant twits only. I don't deny having the odd prejudice, but I don't try to force my own prejudices on other people and get nasty if they resist.
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I agree seems ott to me. Seems a good use of community service if there ever was.
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He pee'd off the establishment. End of. And a damned foreigner as well.....send him down ! :-)
I thought that the Police issuing of a fixed penalty might have resolved the matter on the spot so to speak !
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Or a Police marksman ! How much would one rifle round have cost? 25p or something? Bit harsh maybe but no one would try it again would they?
:-)
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Considering you can get a lesser sentence for robbing and injuring someone, his sentence was wildly out of proportion. The judge was probably one of those stupid senile old farts, one of life's loafers ponces and scroungers, indeed some exist in this thread They know who they are, I wouldn't waste spit on them.
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>> probably one of those stupid senile old farts, one of life's loafers ponces and scroungers, indeed some exist in this thread
See what I mean? Trounced in argument, these nasty little twits invent insults out of their deep fund of yobbish ignorance, splash them around, make utter fools of themselves and imagine that they are innocent victims. Pathetic.
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Fight Fight Fight !!!!
:-)
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Should I open a book?
Come on who's a betting man?
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Nah let's just stand round chanting until the janitor comes. It suits the level of the event.
:-)
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>> I wouldn't waste spit on them.
Tight git.
I see that there are 10 other twits here, more than I would have expected. Perhaps they think it was foolish of me to kick the pitbull again. It was of course, but I just couldn't resist it. Ugly little brute.
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>> So he goes down for six and serves three then three more tagged, is that
>> right?
>>
>> On basis that average cost of prison is £40kpa that costing us all £10k. As
>> a short termer he'll get no rehabilitation. If he's got a job or a home
>> he'll lose both those too.
Couldn't care less about the cost.... or the rehabilitation (if he's an intelligent or semi intelligent man he'll work it out himself).
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>> Couldn't care less about the cost.... or the rehabilitation (if he's an intelligent or semi
>> intelligent man he'll work it out himself).
So apart from making other people feel better what's jail going to achieve? Oldfield already seems pretty dyspeptic about life and society so I'm pretty sceptical about any 'lessons' being learned.
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>> what's jail going to achieve? Oldfield already seems pretty dyspeptic about life and society so I'm pretty sceptical about any 'lessons' being learned.
It won't help him or anyone else. Community service, lots of it, would have been better.
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As I mentioned above, isn't the sentence at least partly meant to deter anyone thinking of doing the same thing next year?
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AC, I've worked within the system - the sentence is totally disproportionate, he'll appeal hopefully. I don't like him or what he did but the sentence is way out of line. Toffs and plebs again.
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>> Toffs and plebs again.
I agree the sentence is inappropriate. But is the judge - a woman - a toff? Is Oldfield a 'pleb' whatever that may be?
In case there's anyone here who doesn't know - I thought everybody did - the 'toff' is a fairly rare species at Oxford and Cambridge.
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>> Is Oldfield a 'pleb' whatever that may be?
I'm a pleb. www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pleb
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I'm Scottish. We're not posh enough to be plebs...
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Yes it's an odd sentence; and a mistake, not just because burglars and thugs get less.
It won't stop him doing it again, and in his world it confirms the elitism he objects to. His "smirk" (Daily Mail of course) shows how delighted he is with the sentence. He is certainly a world class smirker, looking at the pictures.
Per BBC news -
But following the sentencing, outside court, his wife, Deepa Naik, 35, defended his actions.
"Trenton has spent his adult life working on these issues and his direct action protest was a natural extension of his everyday work," she said.
"Trenton's protest was a reaction to an increasingly brutal business, media and political elite."
"Great Britain has convinced many it is the home of democracy and the gauge of civilisation," she added.
"Anyone living here today knows Britain is a brutal, deeply divided, class-driven place."
Perhaps not surprising that they have chosen Britain for this "work". There are far worse places to live, and many that are considerably less tolerant of protest than this one - a fact that has been rather undermined by the dozy sentence.
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"Trenton has spent his adult life working on these issues and his direct action protest was a natural extension of his everyday work," she said.
He needs a proper job, just like the rest of the plebs/proletariat...
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>> plebs/proletariat...
I think the plebs were ordinary Roman citizens, as opposed to aristocrats. The Roman equivalent of the proletariat were, cough, slaves. I don't think they outnumbered the plebs though in most periods, unlike the proletariat who generally outnumbered the petty bourgeoisie in the 19th and 220th centuries.
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You are right but the meaning has shifted a little lately. We used to use it as a form of mild abuse in School.
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>> We used to use it as a form of mild abuse in School.
I went to a lot of schools. The last one was a public school where we learned (mainly from each other) to be enormously snobbish and superior. The disparaging word for working-class people there was 'prole'.
It doesn't take an adult long to work out that a mind is worth a lot more than a bloodline, the latter being meaningless unless accompanied by large capital or property, and no gauge of moral worth even then. But that doesn't make working class or middle class people morally superior. Bigotry based on real or perceived social class difference is incredibly stupid and usually nasty too. It seems to be fashionable at the moment though.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 20 Oct 12 at 18:55
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The term plebs was used in aviation enthusiast circles in the seventies. Disparaging reference to those, generally younger, who'd yet to acquire skills such as basic identification of types and/or claimed to have seen impossible sights - train to London stopped in a siding by Alconbury just as a flight of USAF Phantoms landed.
In more recent general usage it's similar to proles as described above. The underlings, the vulgar common herd per Steve Harley on Rick Wakeman's musical rendering of 1984.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Sat 20 Oct 12 at 19:14
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>>>claimed to have seen impossible sights - train to London stopped in a siding by Alconbury just as a flight of USAF Phantoms landed.
Stopped in a siding... perhaps not... but the aircraft were very likely seen.
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There did used to be a 4th line between Huntingdon and Holme crossing, was used as a relief to allow fast services through I have even seen services stopped on the third line for a while.
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Trenton was lucky to get 6 months! - when that Emily Woman stepped infront of the King`s horse he obviously thought "Ah! a Pleb" and mowed her down!
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>> So apart from making other people feel better what's jail going to achieve?
It is going to show a first class selfish cock that there are consequences in what we all do in life and if he ever felt the need to seriously disrupt the enjoyment of many hundreds of thousands again...then he might get the same again, but longer.
What is there not to understand about that?
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You're probably right WP !
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No argument with the action/consequences thing.
Not clear that a short spell warehoused in prison is best way of dealing with issue. Two hundred hours work on the tideway clearing rubbish or mending boathouses might be a more productive remedy.
What is there (not?) to understand about that?
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>> What is there (not?) to understand about that?
>>
The ones that really need to, don't turn up and do it.
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I don't suppose he's even deportable, assuming his wife is actually his wife (reports differ) and is British. That would be the best solution.
If his life's work is to to to another country and fight social injustice, there are places more needful of his help than Britain.
Why didn't he go to Pakistan and oppose the Taliban? I suppose we know the answers to that.
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Because he's a layabout waster who is what would have been termed in wartime as lacking moral fibre. He's a twit.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 09:18
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Of course he's a twit and a waste of space, but thats not a criminal offence, if it was the country would be awash with prisons bursting with them.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Thu 1 Nov 12 at 09:19
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I don't know about him being a T.He would have been hurt not the rowers.Six months in prison is over the top.Upsetting the posh boys is not allowed.Our prisons are overfull nothing new.
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Yes - he is a knob, no question about it....................but so are those who disrupt other sporting events by streaking etc. Do THEY go down for it for six months?
I think the sentence is out of proportion to the offence.
I suppose I could be considered one of the flog 'em and hang 'em brigade, but I DO think that the sentence was so harsh simply because of the implied social status of the event disrupted.
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We could debate the differences between sports, but it's rather more disruptive for say horse racing or the boat race than it would be for a football match, where it merely interrupts play without completely screwing it.
Interesting sidelight from the Telegraph, which inter alia suggests that the self-indulgent narcissist Oldfield is no stranger to privilege himself:
... the eloquent and heartfelt series of messages on Twitter from Oxford crewman Will Zeng to the reckless protester Trenton Oldfield said it all, and are worth repeating. “When I missed your head with my blade,” wrote Zeng, “I knew only that you were a swimmer, and if you say you are a protester, then no matter what you say your cause may be, your action speaks too loudly for me to hear you. I know with immediate emotion, exactly what you were protesting. You were protesting the right of 17 young men and one woman to compete fairly and honourably, to demonstrate their hard work and desire in a proud tradition. You were protesting their right to devote years of their lives, their friendships, and their souls to the fair pursuit of the joys and the hardships of sport. You, who would make a mockery of their dedication and their courage, are a mockery of a man.”
Oldfield, educated at one of Australia’s most privileged schools before graduating from the London School of Economics, had decided that the students from two other universities were somehow fair targets for his anger at an “elite society”. But for the hard-working young people from Oxford and Cambridge who had balanced their lives between their studies and their love of sport – in particular, taking part in one of the greatest, oldest, and still intensely amateur sporting institutions in the world – his traumatic disruption was a cruel end to their dreams and ideals. And while Oldfield might deplore the high-profile event and deep affection in which it is held by the British public, his protest was misplaced. It was all about egotistical publicity-seeking. Unfortunately, the headlines yesterday and today will be giving him great pleasure.
...
Oxford’s bow man Alex Woods ended the race flat on his back, unconscious. His life was put in jeopardy. He is a lightweight rower, just muscle and bone, with a BMI of only 19. With less resilience than his bigger crewmates and opponents, Woods had used up most of his muscle glycogen store in the first 10 minutes of the race. Forced to stop suddenly by Oldfield, he was flip-flopping between aerobic and anaerobic respiration in the half-hour before the race resumed, getting cold, his adrenalin levels pumping. During the restart, his body was running on empty, trying to burn fat that he did not have, his system in metabolic chaos. He remembers nothing after the collision, since his fuel-starved brain had stopped working.
It is Woods who gives the lie to Oldfield’s assumption that the Boat Race, rowing and Oxford and Cambridge are bastions of elitism and privilege. This 27-year-old went to a fee-paying grammar school in Northern Ireland, before coming to Oxford to train as a doctor. He raced first for his college, then as a lightweight, and last year for the reserves. Against all the odds, he won selection for this year’s race after a winter of gruelling testing. He is far from unique...
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>> but I DO think that the sentence was so harsh simply because of the implied
>> social status of the event disrupted.
It might be, but i'm not convinced.
I'm not from a privileged background, far from it, I think my lot were peasants and serfs, but my viewpoint is 'Why would you want to disrupt and offend others even if they were privileged'?...unless you are envious of course.
If he got 6 months for disrupting some public schoolboys practising on the local river near their school, then you'd have a point. The fact that he did it in front of one of the main sporting events of the year, on the capital city's main river on national t.v. changes the game.
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>> Considering you can get a lesser sentence for robbing and injuring someone, his sentence was
>> wildly out of proportion.
I'm so p'd off with our exceptionally weak sentencing...that i'll happily take the odd one out of proportion, it's better than nothing.
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>> >> Considering you can get a lesser sentence for robbing and injuring someone, his sentence
>> was
>> >> wildly out of proportion.
>>
>> I'm so p'd off with our exceptionally weak sentencing...that i'll happily take the odd one
>> out of proportion, it's better than nothing.
Not when it makes a mockery and a farce of the rest. And you wonder why your job was getting so tough.
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>> Not when it makes a mockery and a farce of the rest.
The whole sentencing system is a mockery and farce anyway..so the odd 'good' one is something to be celebrated.
>>And you wonder why your job was getting so tough.
>>
Haven't worked out your point.
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Oh right, we are back to its not a matter of the seriousness crime, or the intent, its the event and how many see it.
A: how many people were upset? I wasn't - Many on here were not upset, and a large percentage of the UK population were not upset, interested by the event unfolding more of them.
B: Why wasn't Eric Row thrown in jail? She outraged public decency as well. More people were watching that. Why are not all streakers at sporting events thrown in jail?
Nothing will convince me that the sentence was not politically (in the sense of the establishment) motivated. And all this indignation on here that such a magnificent sporting spectacle was ruined is nothing but puffed up false outrage. All of you would have been bristling with rage when the suffragette threw herself in font of the royal nag. Not doubt she would have been jailed if they could have stitched her back together.
And as for its ruined the lives of the rowers. That's complete cobblers. Only a cut in their future earnings would effect them. Professional sportsmen one and all, it was just another event.
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I suppose the comparable offence was digging up the rest pitch at Headingley.
Can anyone remember what the perps for that event got?
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Peter Chappell was jailed for eighteen months.
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There was a clear case of criminal damage and subsequent loss
Three suspended sentences and one jailed for 18 months
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The funny thing was that everyone knew Davies was a guilty scumbag, except the do gooders who knew nothing about him.
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What rot Zero.
Erica Rowe didn't ruin the game, merely delayed it. And anyway that's not the point.
If it's politically motivated it's not very well thought through. Trenton looked delighted at being so martyred, and an opportunity to appeal will keep his 'protest' in the news.
More likely that Cocklecarrot J was having a bad day and that the 'establishment' isn't very pleased with him at all.
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Yes it makes more sense to compare with Headingley. Both effectively negated the event.
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>> And all this indignation on here that such a magnificent sporting spectacle was
>> ruined is nothing but puffed up false outrage.
Total cobblers. How on earth do you know what I think? You might presume you know, in which case you've got it wrong.
I don't watch the boat race either....but realise that plenty do.....and as far as I'm concerned they should be allowed to without Richard Cranium's like this interrupting it.
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>> >> And all this indignation on here that such a magnificent sporting spectacle was
>> >> ruined is nothing but puffed up false outrage.
>>
>> Total cobblers. How on earth do you know what I think? You might presume you
>> know, in which case you've got it wrong.
In that case you are telling lies on here, You are not slow in telling everyone what you think.
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>> In that case you are telling lies on here, You are not slow in telling
>> everyone what you think.
>>
Let's have some evidence then. I do not appreciate in the slightest being called a liar. I may have some faults, but lying isn't one of them.
I really do think you need to have a re-think with your personal style.
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>> >> In that case you are telling lies on here, You are not slow in
>> telling
>> >> everyone what you think.
>> >>
>>
>> Let's have some evidence then. I do not appreciate in the slightest being called a
>> liar. I may have some faults, but lying isn't one of them.
>>
>> I really do think you need to have a re-think with your personal style.
There we go again with the moral outrage. Now before you get going on about my personal style think about what you said on here.
You said "how do you know what I think"
I said in that case you must be lying because you tell us what you think.
Now are you telling us lies what you think or not?
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>> There we go again with the moral outrage.
It isn't a 'moral outrage'. It's what I think. It's consistent, i've thought like that for many moons.
>> You said "how do you know what I think"
Yes I did. Because i'm consistent, yet you obviously got the wrong end of the stick, so therefore you do not know what I'm thinking.
>> I said in that case you must be lying because you tell us what you
>> think.
>>
>> Now are you telling us lies what you think or not?
..or, you've got it wrong...or do you think you are always right?
There are a number of people on here who post what they think and are not shy to do so, you and I included. I take umbrage at being called a liar in the same fashion I would being called a thief. I see no reason why you'd need to be so damned rude.
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Its not rude, its logic, you tell us what you think, so I know what you think - Unless you are telling us lies and you think differently, How can that be rude?
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>> Its not rude, its logic, you tell us what you think, so I know what
>> you think - Unless you are telling us lies and you think differently, How can
>> that be rude?
Zero,
If I post on here what I think, yet one one aspect of something another poster gets the wrong end of the stick, no doubt because he's presumed something that is incorrect. Why should I then be labelled a liar, when it is not so?
Do you not think that to be rude?
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>> Oh right, we are back to its not a matter of the seriousness crime, or
>> the intent, its the event and how many see it.
Yes. Could be.
Seriousness of a crime obviously should have something to do with a penalty, but so could the interference to many other people.
If my local swimming pool (which has recently had some vandalism) were to host the world synchronised swimming finals...i'd avoid it like the plague and think 'who in their right mind would want to see that'...but, as i'm not that selfish, I also understand that many might enjoy it.
If the local yobs put the windows in the night before and the event has to be cancelled, should they get more of a punishment because they've ruined the day for many people as well as committing criminal damage?....or should they just get the criminal damage penalty?
Guess what I think....and I wouldn't have any 'puffed up false moral outrage' about it, i'd be seething at the selfishness of some people and how they can blithely ruin things for other people.
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>> all this indignation on here that such a magnificent sporting spectacle was ruined is nothing but puffed up false outrage.
>> And as for its ruined the lives of the rowers.
>> Professional sportsmen one and all, it was just another event.
God you're such an ignorant prat. A silly bigot. They used to call it 'inverted snobbery' but I think you've just blathered yourself into it.
I would have expected you to know what a professional sportsman is.
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'but I think you've just blathered yourself into it. ''
I think that's about right. The failure to admit you were talking rubbish for the sake of an argument can make makes you look rather silly.
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If he believes it is his freedom to disrupt a race, then why does he not respect the freedom of others to hold an uninterrupted race?
It’s nothing to do with freedom, it’s not even to do with toffs and races, it’s not relevant whether or not he is foreign, or what his politics are.
It is the same as it was with Erica Roe, except that involved two big tits rather than one.
He has a desperate need to seek attention born from feelings of insecurity, inadequacy and irrelevance.
As you all know I have no particular feelings about prison, but it does seem that community service would have made more sense. Neither is going to change the attention seeking little prat, but one is cheaper for us and offers at least some cleaned up graffiti as a bonus.
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Its a pity our community service isn't like the Western Australian version. While we were roaming around we came across a team of teenagers clad in bright orange overalls, working in 30c + temperatures laying a stone slab path to a viewpoint. During a chat with their supervisors I was informed that they were the local kids who had been vandalising and generally misbehaving, the magistrate had put them on payback.
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>> Its a pity our community service isn't like the Western Australian version. While we were
>> roaming around we came across a team of teenagers clad in bright orange overalls, working
>> in 30c + temperatures laying a stone slab path to a viewpoint. During a chat
>> with their supervisors I was informed that they were the local kids who had been
>> vandalising and generally misbehaving, the magistrate had put them on payback.
>>
See, now in one instant, i'd be agreeable to community punishments. Trouble is the ones we have are utterly laughable, most don't bother turning up.
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.............and then you have the insufferably smug, perma-tanned Peter Hain who was instrumental in disrupting several sporting events in the 1970s.
His ultimate reward/punishment - even though he's a South African - a seat in Parliament and ministerial rank, too.
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Kenyan. More faces than a totem pole though.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 19:43
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>> Kenyan. More faces than a totem pole though.
>>
Yes - Kenyan born but brought up in Jaapie land.
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>> .............and then you have the insufferably smug, perma-tanned Peter Hain who was instrumental in disrupting
>> several sporting events in the 1970s.
>> His ultimate reward/punishment - even though he's a South African - a seat in Parliament
>> and ministerial rank, too.
Apartheid was an utter disgrace to a proud nation. Quite different to Oldfield's nebulous stuff.
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>> >> .............and then you have the insufferably smug, perma-tanned Peter Hain who was instrumental in
>> disrupting
>> >> several sporting events in the 1970s.
>> >> His ultimate reward/punishment - even though he's a South African - a seat in
>> Parliament
>> >> and ministerial rank, too.
>>
>> Apartheid was an utter disgrace to a proud nation. Quite different to Oldfield's nebulous stuff.
So its not a matter of the act but the opinion about the cause behind the act that makes it acceptable or not?
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 20:04
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Not even vaguely newsworthy.
The knob shoving over the 'keeper yesterday is several orders of magnitude higher as an offence and is worthy of a year or two.
The boat race disruption is comm service and a fat fine I reckon, but shows up the lapse of security nicely in a major event during high alert for possible terror attacks.
The court case is a distraction and simply feeds the go of the retard who was in the water.
Last edited by: Lygonos on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 20:17
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What Lygonos said +1.
(oh the embarassment).
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>> >> .............and then you have the insufferably smug, perma-tanned Peter Hain who was instrumental in
>> disrupting
>> >> several sporting events in the 1970s.
>> >> His ultimate reward/punishment - even though he's a South African - a seat in
>> Parliament
>> >> and ministerial rank, too.
>>
>> Apartheid was an utter disgrace to a proud nation. Quite different to Oldfield's nebulous stuff.
So disruption of people's enjoyment is OK if YOU think it's justified? Hmm.
(Ooops - crossed with Zed's post saying essentially the same)
Last edited by: Roger on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 21:06
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>> So disruption of people's enjoyment is OK if YOU think it's justified? Hmm.
>>
>> (Ooops - crossed with Zed's post saying essentially the same)
All things been equal I'd agree. But apartheid was a different thing; not at Nazi level of inhumanity but well on the way.
Though I suspect you'd differ.
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It's all about the means justifying the ends - Trenton is rather woolly about his. I rather admired Hain once upon a time for his views. He has become a bit of a "figure" in Wales - a high opinion of himself, becoming a bit of a weather-cock politician and a hypocrite. I'm sure he was a decent man once. My deceased bil had words once about the size of his ego.
Last edited by: R.P. on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 22:14
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>> apartheid was a different thing; not at Nazi level of inhumanity but well on the way.
Leaving Godwin aside for a moment, apartheid was massively distant from 1930s Germany.
Apartheid was simply yet another example of the futility of trying to preserve Empires and the status quo against the inevitable change in society/populations.
An affront to democracy and decency? Yes.
The 'good old boys' trying to keep the country how they remember it? Yes.
An attempt to genocidally modify the country and create a New World Order? Hardly.
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Good Lord, thoroughly agreeing with Lygonos, again?
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I know, its very unsettling isn't it.
I'm worried about me.
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If Godwin came in I apologise; that wasn't my point.
I'd accept that Smith's Rhodesia was an attempt to preserve Empire.
South Africa's pass laws and attempts to define civil rights about where on could live or who you could have sex with by colour and racial classification was something else. If the Bantustan policy had been drawn to it's conclusion the majority of SA's citizens would have been foreigners in their homeland.
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>> I'd accept that Smith's Rhodesia was an attempt to preserve Empire.
Empire had some level of mutual improvement about it (although badly misguided and inexpertly implemented)
Smiths Rhodesia was just a crude attempt to maintain power and privilege at the expense of others within artificial isolation.
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Rhodesia, aka Zimbabwe, is hardly a shining example of ex-Imperial "progress" is it?
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>> Rhodesia, aka Zimbabwe, is hardly a shining example of ex-Imperial "progress" is it?
I don't think anybody said it was. But where it is now is a consequence of Smith's regime and it's actions.
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>> >> Rhodesia, aka Zimbabwe, is hardly a shining example of ex-Imperial "progress" is it?
>>
>> I don't think anybody said it was. But where it is now is a consequence
>> of Smith's regime and it's actions.
Indeed, Smith gave birth to and fed Mugabe.
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>But where it is now is a consequence of Smith's regime and it's action.
In what way?
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>> >> Rhodesia, aka Zimbabwe, is hardly a shining example of ex-Imperial "progress" is it?
>>
>> I don't think anybody said it was. But where it is now is a consequence
>> of Smith's regime and it's actions.
Now THAT is mierda!
The state of Zimbabwe has been fully independent for quite enough time for its present woes to be entirely the fault of the mismanagement, venality and megalomania of its current rulers.
Last edited by: Roger on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 08:14
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>> >> >> Rhodesia, aka Zimbabwe, is hardly a shining example of ex-Imperial "progress" is it?
>> >>
>> >> I don't think anybody said it was. But where it is now is a
>> consequence
>> >> of Smith's regime and it's actions.
>>
>> Now THAT is mierda!
>>
>> The state of Zimbabwe has been fully independent for quite enough time for its present
>> woes to be entirely the fault of the mismanagement, venality and megalomania of its current
>> rulers.
Indeed, now ask your self how did those present rulers come about? what is it in the past that provided them with the ability, resources and support to develop in the way they did.
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>> Indeed, now ask your self how did those present rulers come about? what is it
>> in the past that provided them with the ability, resources and support to develop in
>> the way they did.
tinyurl.com/2ezgyo
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>> Indeed, now ask your self how did those present rulers come about? what is it
>> in the past that provided them with the ability, resources and support to develop in
>> the way they did.
History echoes down the years. Rhodesia dragged its feet over majority rule for the best part of a decade before Smith's UDI. Another fifiteen years of white supremacist rule and the ground was fertile for Nkomo and Mugabe over more flexible and pragmatic nationalists.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 11:26
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>> The failure to admit you were talking rubbish for the sake of an argument can make makes you look rather silly.
And in Zero's case, led him into extreme unpleasantness for which he has been unable to forgive, not himself, but me.
He's very bright, often right, knows lots about plenty of things, but cant help behaving sometimes like a playground thug. Immature on some level.
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>He's very bright, often right, knows lots about plenty of things, but cant help behaving
>sometimes like a playground thug. Immature on some level.
For Glub's sake AC, give it a rest.
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Recently having been awarded the "Tit of the Forum" award, I feel qualified to comment!. Personally, I likes to see the exchange of Banter between to equally intellectual combatants. Sometimes, Yes their comments are slightly hurtful or cutting, but to see a well-aimed uppercut nullified by a swift and accurate riposte is quite educational, inspiring and a joy to watch!. Carry on "Sparring" chaps! - us lesser, inferior characters in the book get to to see a hero emerge or a Vi8llian get his just desserts. And although most of us wouldn`t declare war on public forum, it doesn`t stop us having our favorites, and cringing in our armchairs when they deliver a suitably sweet slap!. Whilst they are entertaining each other, they are leaving the rest of us alone! - Tis better than either Corrie or Emmerdale! and I know who I`ve put a few "bob" on.
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I suppose that makes me the female "Tit of the Forum" then:)
I do worry that some take it to heart but I have to say I did enjoy the discussion by AC and Alanovic last week.
I did expect Alanovic to 'go off on one' but he must be extremely chilled at the moment.
Sorry Alanovic, but I have to say you make so many good points when you're not just shouting 'I HATE4X4's' ....keep it up:)
Pat
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>> I did expect Alanovic to 'go off on one' but he must be extremely chilled
>> at the moment.
>>
Always am, Pat. Always am.
Well, sometimes. ;-)
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>>but cant help behaving sometimes like a playground thug. Immature on some level.
Really? I'm not sure I would have the nerve to write that about someone else in the face of my own behaviour.
You, however!?! I feel that you should be plucking out your own eyes.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Sun 21 Oct 12 at 23:48
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Glub glub, squeak squeak.
Defend the pitbull by all means, both of you. I've done it myself often enough. No more though. He's a prat.
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I'm not defending any pitbulls. He wouldn't thank me, and he is certainly ugly enough to stand on his own feet. Anyway, he's a liberal and deserves all he gets.
I was merely pointing out that I felt that you were standing in a glass house.
Do I need to be more specific than that?
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Handbags at dawn, girlies!
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For heaven's sake, it's a stylised argument between fictitious assumed characters, not real people.
"Zero" is a part in a play or soap opera. The actor playing "Zero" has read the script, boned up on the sort of person he has tp portray, and has bagged the part.
"AC" is another plum part that ambitious actors go for.
Other parts are played by straight players, some who stick to the thread topic, others who have taken parts requiring a more diverse input.
It's as absurd to be offended by anything an actor says on this forum as it is rip up a book because you are exasperated by one of the characters.
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Yes, but when one of the characters becomes ever more absurd and dominates every chapter you do start to get tired of the book.
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>>
>> you do start to get tired of the book.
>>
Then you thumb rapidly through the subsequent chapters, looking for the bit where the dastardly character gets his come-uppance.
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>> Do I need to be more specific than that?
If you expect me to understand what you are talking about, you do. But please don't bother if all you are going to do is deliver faulty or grossly mistaken judgements or opinions. You need to keep it specific.
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I agree. Shame really but his need to be the centre of attention all the time is becoming tiresome.
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The full transcript of the sentencing remarks of HHJ Molyneux is now on line:
www.judiciary.gov.uk/Resources/JCO/Documents/Judgments/sentencing-remarks-r-v-oldfield.pdf
Only the phrase 'take him down' is missing.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 22 Oct 12 at 11:50
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www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20025830
Compare idiot's 6 month jail sentence with moron's 4 months for assault, entering the field of play, and breaching 2 previous 'banning' orders.
I stand by my previous comments.
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>> his need to be the centre of attention all the time
Mine?
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>> I'M SPARTACUS!
Heh heh... geddit FMR? Spasticus Autisticus more like.
That song by the wonderful poet Ian Dury was played at some point in the Paralympics ceremonies. Brilliant I thought.
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He was on 5live as well.
Struck me as calmly barking. I really could not understand WTH he was trying to prove.
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If he means what he says - that he'd do it again and cares nothing for "the system" - then he'll do it again somewhere, and go through the system again. If however, it's all bluster, then he'll go quiet and that'll be that.
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A man who disrupted last year's University Boat Race by swimming in front of the crews has been refused leave to remain in the UK.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23025311
Oldfield, who has a British wife, Deepa Naik, who is expecting a child, said he had appealed against the decision.
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Good.
Maybe next time he's in someone else's country he'll try and behave himself.
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>> A man who disrupted last year's University Boat Race by swimming in front of the
>> crews has been refused leave to remain in the UK.
>>
>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23025311
>>
>> Oldfield, who has a British wife, Deepa Naik, who is expecting a child, said he
>> had appealed against the decision.
>>
A great pity that it doesn't happen more often, but the PC brigade will soon be out in force to shout for his human rights from the rooftops.
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Its a bit unfair, you cant send him home. If he swims in the rivers down there he will get eaten by the salt water crocks....
Mind you, thats better sport than the boat race.
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There are immigrants (inc some illegals) that have done far worse than interrupt a "Toffs" boat race and got back on our streets with a far lenient sentence!
x months custody on remand, then 6 months gaol, followed by deportation seems a bit excessive considering cases and sentences like Stuart Halls for example.
Last edited by: devonite on Mon 24 Jun 13 at 09:28
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^^ What devonite said.
I'd like to think that he'll be able to stay under the Human Rights Act (right to a family life).
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>> I'd like to think that he'll be able to stay under the Human Rights Act
>> (right to a family life).
Oldfield is a pawn in politics over Humasn Rights Act/European Convention. Red meat for the back benches.
I think Devonite and FF are right and I'd be very surprised if a tribunal or court found otherwise. Deportation is quite simple disproportionate to the offence which had already been 'bigged up' beyond what might normally be charged his particular stupidity.
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hes got a right to a family life, Sydney is hardly Kabul now is it, and he can take his wife and kid back.
You'll have a job to prove hardship and loss of Human rights in a move back to Australia.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 24 Jun 13 at 10:24
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>> You'll have a job to prove hardship and loss of Human rights in a move
>> back to Australia.
The issue is loss of family life either for him if he goes alone or for her if she goes with him. In both cases the issue is distance. That's all that's needed. The fact that Australia is a first world liberal democracy rather than a midddle eastern theocracy is neither here nor there.
Recent case on similar grounds involved an Ozzy divorced form his Brit wife and convicted of fraud in UK. Loss of contact with his UK kids was enough to prevent his deportation.
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Having lived in Sydney, unfortunately I have to agree with Zero, it is no hardship whatsoever.
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>> >> I'd like to think that he'll be able to stay under the Human Rights
>> Act
>> >> (right to a family life).
>>
>> Oldfield is a pawn in politics over Humasn Rights Act/European Convention. Red meat for the
>> back benches.
>>
Oldfield is hardly a pawn. He is the instigator of the whole affair as a platform for his political beliefs.
The other issue is more complex. I agree that deportation is disproportionate to his offence. A more interesting question is where deportation IS proportionate, but would only be applied to single people without spouses or children. In effect, this discriminates against single people.
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>> Oldfield is hardly a pawn. He is the instigator of the whole affair as a
>> platform for his political beliefs.
He took part in a protest similar to streakers at rugger or whatever. Low level stuff. On basis of being convicted he's being used as a pawn in the HRA/ECHR battle.
>> The other issue is more complex. I agree that deportation is disproportionate to his offence.
>> A more interesting question is where deportation IS proportionate, but would only be applied to
>> single people without spouses or children. In effect, this discriminates against single people.
Family life is not just about being married or with children. It can equally apply in relation to parents/siblings (but NOT cats!!)
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>> He took part in a protest similar to streakers at rugger or whatever. Low level stuff. On basis of being convicted he's being used as a pawn in the HRA/ECHR battle.
That's not strictly accurate Bromptonaut. a) He didn't 'take part' in a protest; he made a protest off his own bat, unaided. And b) It wasn't similar to 'streakers at rugger or whatever': in football or rugby the game has a set length, and there are fairly frequent interruptions for injuries etc., which are timed so that the time they take isn't subtracted from the length of the game. So a streaker is highly unlikely to alter the result of the game. The boat race is completely different, a flat-out exhausting blast by everyone concerned, lasting as long as it lasts, whose disruption can change the result (and arguably did in this case).
The other issue that seems to gnaw at many minds is the idea that the boat race is an event involving 'toffs'. 'Toffs' are quite thin on the ground in centres of academic excellence as any fule kno. Yet Zero chose to accuse me of snobbery when I exposed the garbage he was talking about the boat race. I wonder if he's forgiven himself yet? Inverted snobbery on a basis of wilful ignorance and envy is a pathetic and ugly thing, worse than proper snobbery really and less well-founded (he added just to get up as many noses as possible).
Why should anyone care what happens to this narcissitic twit? If they deported him to Syria I would laugh.
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>> He took part in a protest similar to streakers at rugger or whatever. Low level
>> stuff. On basis of being convicted he's being used as a pawn in the HRA/ECHR
>> battle.
He is an ignorant, selfish man, who comes from another country. He has been convicted of a criminal offence and now asked to leave and return to whence he came from.
Thank goodness some common sense is creeping back into the system.
It matters not, that others more deserving haven't yet been sent back yet. They should be as well and that is not a reason for allowing this berk to stay.
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>> It matters not, that others more deserving haven't yet been sent back yet. They should
>> be as well and that is not a reason for allowing this berk to stay.
Describing him as a berk is a succinct summary.
Removing berks form their wife/kid (or forcing berk's wives to separate from their extended family) is a bit disproportionate though isn't it?
No problem in sending violent drug dealers home to fight for a pitch in their own land but the has to be some thought as to consequence when adopting a deportation policy; one size will never fit all.
Oldfield's partner would left as a single Mum, probably on 'the social', and the kid is denied its father. Where's the justice or rationality in that?
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 24 Jun 13 at 20:11
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>> Describing him as a berk is a succinct summary.
>>
>> Removing berks form their wife/kid (or forcing berk's wives to separate from their extended family)
>> is a bit disproportionate though isn't it?
Yes, it would be, if that was all the State was doing, lining berks up and sending them off elsewhere....but that isn't the case. This particular berk has committed a criminal offence and seen fit to deliberately disrupt and ruin a national televised sporting event that gives pleasure to hundreds of thousands of people...so the powers that be decide to get rid...what's wrong with that? I wish they'd do it more often.
>>
>> No problem in sending violent drug dealers home to fight for a pitch in their
>> own land but the has to be some thought as to consequence when adopting a
>> deportation policy; one size will never fit all.
No...but a national t.v. sensation seeking goon, who proves himself unbelievably selfish and willing to commit a criminal act..he can join the throng.
>>
>> Oldfield's partner would left as a single Mum, probably on 'the social', and the kid
>> is denied its father. Where's the justice or rationality in that?
He should have thought of that... there's consequences to most things we do. Hopefully other people will now recognise these consequences and be less selfish themselves. What's wrong with Mrs Oldfield going with him?
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>> He should have thought of that... there's consequences to most things we do. Hopefully other
>> people will now recognise these consequences and be less selfish themselves. What's wrong with Mrs
>> Oldfield going with him?
No point in getting in a snip/post fest over this. We're not likely to find any common ground.
However the two questions above warrant an answer.
Deportation is standard for sentences over (IIRC) 12 months.
Accounts suggest he did think of that and designed his protest accordingly. Even on a 'bigged up' charge he only got 6 months. Terminating his leave to remain looks like vindictive politicking. It's almost bound to be overturned by a tribunal on Article 8 grounds as he has a family life and is no real threat. Theresa May will however have a few anti HRA/ECHR headlines to advance her career if/when Cameron falls.
Mrs Oldfield could go with him but then she and the impending sprog would be punished by lack of contact with her family in UK. That's not fair either; how would Mrs W feel if she were offered that option?
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>>
>> Accounts suggest he did think of that and designed his protest accordingly.
I know people say this all the time, however I find that very difficult to believe. He went through some sort of legal/jail time/deportation risk analysis before hand? I find it hard to believe that he thought of anything other than his protest/5 mins of fame.
>>
>> Mrs Oldfield could go with him but then she and the impending sprog would be
>> punished by lack of contact with her family in UK.
Does he have any contact with his family in OZ, I wonder how the impending sprog will manage with his side of the family being so far away? (if that is the case)
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>> Does he have any contact with his family in OZ, I wonder how the impending
>> sprog will manage with his side of the family being so far away? (if that
>> is the case)
The sprog, being impending, will not miss what it's never had, either way.
What if he did consider the likelihood of deportation in advance? Why should we give him credit for that? He urinated on his own chips, nobody else did it.
For all I know, the impregnation might also have been a calculated anti-deportation measure. Should we give him points for that, too?
The offence fell below the automatic deportation threshold. But he did not have an existing right to remain here indefinitely. He has now applied for that and been turned down. That is not the same as being deported for the offence.
The New Statesman's attack on the decision was risible. There is a more balanced piece on the Grauniad website by a member of the 2008 Cambridge eight, who doesn't want him deported. goo.gl/YtzGS
Protest is one thing, even if it's rude to go to someone else's country and then object to it. His action went well beyond that. He has shown no remorse and offered no apology as far as I know, so it's reasonable to assume he will carry on being a git. Unless he repents I don't see why the Home Office should change its mind.
I just wish I didn't think this was a bit of political grandstanding.
Last edited by: Manatee on Tue 25 Jun 13 at 16:02
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>> No point in getting in a snip/post fest over this. We're not likely to find
>> any common ground.
The bottom line for me is:
The man was considerably selfish. Most people in this country are not that selfish..and don't like to see it in others. We have a political system that a majority of voters vote in our govt. Out govt makes laws and we are all supposed to comply with them.
If some clown decides to stick two fingers up to many, many people and their enjoyment and break the law in the process, then he runs the risk of the majority of us and our elected govt doing something about it..and they have...and i'm glad.
The elitist bit or toffs sport is a red herring. If it were a polo match, the same principle applies, other people are enjoying it and he wishes to stop them.
I don't watch the boat race or polo, but am considerate enough to wish others who do to be left alone to enjoy it.
If he wanted to demonstrate, he could write to his MP or wander up and down Central London with a placard or go to Speaker's Corner, etc.
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>> There are immigrants (inc some illegals) that have done far worse than interrupt a "Toffs"
>> boat race and got back on our streets with a far lenient sentence!
So if you are a 'toff', you have no right to the enjoyment of a sporting spectacle? You are fair game for some clown to come along and ruin it?
Then there's the angle that I think you'll find people from many walks of life enjoy the boat race..my old London neighbour did, a retired electrician who worked with his tools all his working life, he'd whizz down there and watch it. Why should he have his enjoyment totally ruined?
>> x months custody on remand, then 6 months gaol, followed by deportation seems a
>> bit excessive considering cases and sentences like Stuart Halls for example.
Shame it doesn't happen more often. Come here and abuse the privilege and cheerio. You should be campaigning for harsher sentences for the Stuart Halls not lesser ones for the Trenton Oldfields.
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>>There are immigrants (inc some illegals) that have done far worse than interrupt a "Toffs" boat race and got back on our streets with a far lenient sentence!
You're right. We should boot them out as well.
I think anybody who wants to move to the UK should be allowed to do so. But they they should abide by our laws and fit in with our culture. Failure to do either should be reason for ejection.
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IMO the punishment and subsequent actions appear disproportionate to the crime. I would have no issue with this policy if it was followed through for all criminal activity, although I suspect that in this case somebody connected with the race may have been in a position of authority
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"No we're not."
We are no more full up than one of those Indian trains with passengers hanging off the roof and out of the windows.
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Once the government is collecting tax revenues in excess of the amount required to pay for our education, defence, transport infrastructure, health and pensions, then we will need no further immigration. Until such time as those revenues lag behind expenditure again.
We are not full.
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>> Until such time as those revenues lag behind expenditure again.
>>
>> We are not full.
>>
I'm not sure I follow that. You are saying the purpose of immigration is to recruit taxable labour which can be used to support any shortfall in the funding of indigenous inhabitants?
What happens when those immigrants themselves start incuring unsupported costs?
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We consistently confuse different matters;
Immigration; as far as I am concerned whoever wants to live here, from wherever they come and however many they are should be welcome.
Benefits; UK benefits (health care, social security etc. etc.) should be available only to people who have been part of and contributed to that system for a minimum period of time. 10 years would seem good.
Contribution; You should be of benefit to the UK. Net drains will be asked to leave.
Law & Customs; You're a guest in someone else's country, behave like one or get out.
Oh, and feel free not to come if you don't like the rules.
Last edited by: No FM2R on Tue 25 Jun 13 at 15:22
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To Cliff Pope (NF snuck between us, the cad):
A large number of them go home before that becomes too much of an issue. Take the East European immigration of the last decade. They come, they pay tax, they save up, they go home. Also, we lose population abroad, who we no longer have to fund.
It's swings and roundabouts, but we can not simply say no more immigration at this stage when we can't pay our bills as it is. Unless we stop paying the bills. Want to give up your state pension and health care?
Last edited by: Alanović on Tue 25 Jun 13 at 15:21
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"they pay tax"
Are you sure?
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Most do, yes. The Poles my family employed in the restaurant trade paid tax. My wife pays tax. Our Thai cleaner pays tax.
I'm sure some play the system, and I'm sure there's a measure of evaison in the exisiting populace also. Most notably at the top.
What's your point?
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"What's your point?"
I just just wondered if you had spoken to our Rumanian car cleaners - and the lads up on the Fen. But I'm sure you must have; I am convinced, I'll take your word for it.
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Good. Then we don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater by going all reactionary and stopping all immigration.
NF has it absolutely right in his post a bit further up with the boldy bits in it.
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>> to our Rumanian car cleaners
"your" car cleaners? As in you pay them money knowingly supporting their tax evasion? Telescope to the wrong eye, perhaps?
Why is it relevant that they are Romanian? They could be Essex for all I care, its still tax evasion.
You see that's the problem, people sponging off the country, not their nationality. I'd punish a Brit as fast as I'd punish a Martian. Its just the action which is different; kick one out and impact the other.
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" As in you pay them money knowingly supporting their tax evasion?"
I asked them if they paid taxes, but they didn't understand. I took that as a "yes".
Have you ever heard Richard Dawkins trying to get through to a god-botherer?
Last edited by: Haywain on Tue 25 Jun 13 at 18:11
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Perhaps Bromptonaut is right, not in making weak, intellectually faulty excuses for the egregious Oldfield, but in thinking he will be allowed to stay on appeal if he wants to.
I agree too that the wish to send him packing, although widespread, has a vindictive component. I can't deny that I feel vindictive towards him myself, as do many others who take an interest in the boat race. Seems quite likely too that some of those annoyed by the man's meaningless 'protest' may be people of influence, able to push for his removal.
I'm quite happy that he should be made to feel our displeasure, but I doubt if he will ever appreciate the reason for it. Even some people here seem unable to understand it although it's very simple.
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I don't and never have especially cared what happens to him to be honest. "Should be punished in some appropriate way" I suppose is the nearest I'd get to having any sort of view on the matter.
However, I can't help but at least note the irony arising from him having disrupted a very traditional event and in turn received a perhaps, or almost certainly, unintentionally traditional sentence of being deported to Australia.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 25 Jun 13 at 15:44
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>> unintentionally traditional sentence of being deported to Australia.
Heh heh... now there's a thought... transportation chained in the dark hold of an early 19th century sailing ship, one hour a day on deck supervised by Marines with muskets, fed as transportees were in those days... that'll make Sydney feel like paradise.
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>> An oarsman's perspective:
Well, he's right of course Bromptonaut. Even so there's something about the nature of the offence, and even more the pig-ignorant reason given for it, that arouses the British instinct for rough justice, putting some pompous carphound in the stocks.
Perhaps it's just a protective attitude to national-treasure sporting events. Come to think of it I've never liked Peter Hain really although I couldn't abide cricket as a game and Hain's cause was a good one. Perhaps it was the bumptious way he became a British politician bringing his outsiderish leftism with him... anyway he's got away with it over the years and lies low now. Perhaps he'll end up in the Lords...
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He should be chucked out. Being an Aussie is sufficient grounds.
He can be thrown out with the Aussie cricket team when they go home with their tails between their legs
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One law for them.....Didn't the young Peter Hain - a South African, I believe, or at least a S.A residents - conspire with others to dig up a cricket pitch as a method of protest?
Now he is a politician of sorts in this country!
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>> One law for them.....Didn't the young Peter Hain - a South African, I believe, or
>> at least a S.A residents - conspire with others to dig up a cricket pitch
>> as a method of protest?
>> Now he is a politician of sorts in this country!
>>
You're conflating two events there Rog.
Hain was a stalwart of the anti-apartheid movement. As such he was an active protestor supporting boycotts of tours by RSA teams and later their exclusion from international touring.
The pitch at Headingley was dug up in 1974 by supporters of George Davis, a London villain who was allegedly innocent.
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>> He should be chucked out. Being an Aussie is sufficient grounds.
>>
Now there's a racist comment from our resident "holier than thou" merchant ;-)
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Ooo Does that qualify me for high office in your party?
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Boat race protester Trenton Oldfield has had his appeal against deportation allowed:
www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/09/boat-race-protester-trenton-oldfield-wins-appeal-deportation
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Mon 9 Dec 13 at 14:52
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Open season then for protestors..
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At least he's said he won't do it again.
Despite his dislike of what he finds here, he still prefers it to Australia, which he says is not fit for his wife and child.
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>> At least he's said he won't do it again.
>>
>> Despite his dislike of what he finds here, he still prefers it to Australia, which
>> he says is not fit for his wife and child.
Clearly he is a prick. We have enough of our own, and don't need him as well.
Chuck him out, and foster his child to normal parents, with the hope the sprog won't grow up as a prick as well.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 9 Dec 13 at 17:08
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The government lost the case by a wide margin. The judge found that the proposed deportation was disproportionate and there was no public interest case for it.
www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/dec/23/judge-rules-home-office-deportation-boat-race-trenton-oldfield
Theresa May is now seeking leave to appeal.
What a waste of public money.
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>> What a waste of public money.
I dunno... in the mediatized modern world, these bizarre espontaneos are multiplying, hoping to take advantage of the easy publicity for their various causes. Teresa May could well be exploring case law in advance for other semi-undesirables perhaps not as harmless as the tiresome Oldfield... Think what a time they had with Abu Qutada turning him into a national treasure.
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>> What a waste of public money.
For once we disagree.
The right to protest - to say what you like within very wide bounds, is one thing. That is not the same as right to interfere with the legitimate activities of large numbers of other people whatever the cost and disruption.
There may be no direct public interest in removing him (though that is arguable unless he undertakes not to repeat his act of sabotage) but indirectly it might make a few other self regarding wasters stop and think.
He's not Nelson Mandela, just a vandal.
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>> Theresa May is now seeking leave to appeal.
>>
>> What a waste of public money.
>>
That pleases me no end..and I'm perfectly happy with that scenario.
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I cannot find the judgement but press reports are that the Home Office lost the case in the First-tier Tribunal by a country mile. In law the offence was a minor one for which he'd already been severely punished. Except for the offence all the evidence was that he was a model citizen making a deal of contribution to the community.
The chance of an Upper Tribunal judge giving leave to appeal is slim and the probability of ultimate success zero. I'll bet her lawyers have told her that and they probably said the same when she first tried for deportation.
She's pixxing yours and my money against the wall for headlines in the Mail or Telegraph and as 'red meat' for backbench rednecks.
When she's failed she should be ordered to bear the costs personally.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 14 Jan 14 at 18:35
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>> She's pixxing yours and my money against the wall for headlines in the Mail or
>> Telegraph and as 'red meat' for backbench rednecks.
I don't have a problem with it...because.. it'll serve as a warning for other tits out there who abuse the privilege of staying here..and show that our leaders take a dim view of it and will do everything they can to chuck them out...and it will highlight the restrictions our elected leaders have in getting rid of clowns like that, so the law might be changed.
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For once, I am entirely in agreement with Westpig;
Its a matter of setting an attitude. As a country we've spent millions defending the idea that any behaviour is acceptable in the past, now lets spend a bit saying it isn't.
And really, is economic efficiency really the ideal guiding light for law enforcement and legal action?
I don't support restricted immigration, but I am fully behind drop kicking anybody who transgresses straight across the nearest border.
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>> For once, I am entirely in agreement with Westpig;
>>
>> Its a matter of setting an attitude. As a country we've spent millions defending the
>> idea that any behaviour is acceptable in the past, now lets spend a bit saying
>> it isn't.
Whether he should or should not be deported is one discussion.
We are now at point where Theresa May has tried to deport him but a tribunal has found she had no grounds to do so under the law. It was not a marginal decision; Oldfield won 10-0.
The only gain from an appeal is likely to be headlines in the Tory press and points with right win backbenchers that score for her when/if 'call me Dave' falls on his sword.
Is she justified in trying, against that ground, for an almost certainly hopeless appeal at the taxpayers expense?
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>> Is she justified in trying, against that ground, for an almost certainly hopeless appeal at
>> the taxpayers expense?
>>
Yes...
...see above...and...she can use the ensuing hoo-hah when it fails.. to change the system.
I'm in favour of that.
The immigration appeals system has long been a problem..and it's now going to get a step closer to being reformed..good.
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>>Is she justified in trying, against that ground, for an almost certainly hopeless appeal at the taxpayers expense?
Yes. In the same way that someone who dislikes poll tax follows it through the court, ditto television licences or anything else.
The answer is to change the process, the cost of the process, or anything else related to the process. Not to give up and stop doing it. And she builds some level of political support, and thus is able to change the process in the future, good luck to her.
Lets judge all politicians by what they fight for, not worry about whether it cost too much.
Anybody at all should be allowed to come to the UK. *ANY* offending against the UK, its laws, etc. etc. should involve getting kicked straight back out again.
You're welcome in my house, don't tell me how to run it.
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>> Anybody at all should be allowed to come to the UK.
That's the only bit i'd disagree with...we are a fairly full country anyway...so we can't have a free for all immigration policy.
What's wrong with the Australian system?....If you can pay your way, you can come in...with a few genuine asylum cases or pressing welfare needs on an ad hoc basis, as decided by our elected govt.
Economic migrants need to be weeded out...as do crooks.
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So, the braying masses cheer as Oldfield is chucked out of the country. A cheer goes up when we hear that the "sprog" will be ripped away from it's extended family, but we console ourselves that "it won't miss what it never had".
The establishment have their way and then hold up the "applause" sign for the great unwashed.
The public (interested in rowing for about 20 minutes a year, and mostly not sure if Oxford are the ones in light or dark blue) scream for as much blood as they can get.
Meanwhile, we get the ramblings of a madman from Matthew Pinsent (assistant umpire at the race)...
The police came to see me that night and took a statement, which took me by surprise: it wasn't clear to me what they were going to charge the swimmer with. People said, "I hope it doesn't happen at the Olympics," but I'd always reply, "Look, I want to live in a country where protest is possible. However unwelcome it was, I still value the freedom to do that."
tinyurl.com/q9lruwf
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>> I want to live in a country where protest is possible. However unwelcome it
>> was, I still value the freedom to do that."
>>
Quite right. So no postumous prosecution of Emily Davison then for disrupting the 1913 Derby.
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If Emily Davison hadn't died, no doubt she would have been prosecuted again. She was jailed on nine occasions previously.
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Boat race - Zero
