My car was parked at Twyford station in an unmarked area (no bay), fully paid up for parking fees, but on return it had an £80 ticket for "04 - Not Designated Parking Area". (There were no available spaces when the car was parked).
Is the advice still to ignore this type of ticket? (Previous advice found on Pepipoo, HJ and other sites). There was talk of the law changing but I can;t see anywhere whether it has.
Last edited by: smokie on Thu 23 Feb 12 at 17:43
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Ignore.
Nicole only ever got three threatening letters when she abused the parking in Aldi. They just stopped
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Ignore, but expect a string of threatening letters.
I've successfully ignored two of these issued in 2010.
The last letter was late last year.
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Unless there's something in railway byelaws then I think, until the Protection of Freedoms Act kicks in in autumn, your safe to ignore APCOA. Be ready though for threatening letters and possibility of house call by less than friendly bailliffs collection thugs. They call around tea time when you're not home and put wife etc under max duress.
But please be very careful parking out of bays on stations. The train companies have designed the bays to the last inch to maximise authorised spaces/take. You might think you've left tons of space but actually somebody might be blocked in or emergency access compromised.
They've extended Northampton's car park now but million point turns to exit, gaps three inces wider than a car and even access blocked were commonplace two years ago.
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...Unless there's something in railway byelaws then I think, until the Protection of Freedoms Act...
Railway byelaws is a good point, and worth checking.
As you mentioned in your other thread, the Protections of Freedoms Act may give parking companies some power to enforce unpaid fees.
What it doesn't do is give the companies any power to enforce fines, which this £80 ticket is.
Smokie paid for his parking, so the only option for the company is to sue for damages caused by trespass.
But they know they've suffered no damages, so it's pointless.
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>> What it doesn't do is give the companies any power to enforce fines, which this
>> £80 ticket is.
I had the pleasure of spending Tuesday afternoon acquainting myself with the detail of Sched 4 of the PFB. I fear it closes the damages for trespass = diddly squat loophole.
Parking charges incurred under a relevant obligation will be recoverable against the keeper. The definitions of relevant obligation and parking charge include both a contract arising only when vehicle was parked and damages as a result of trespass or other tort committed by parking the vehicle.
The reference in the definition of parking charge to sums in the nature of damages is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles (when the vehicle was parked on the relevant land).
I assume a summons to the County Court with possibility of defence would still be required before bailiffs can enforce but not clear what defences will actually run.
The full text of the current bill is here:
www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/bills/lbill/2010-2012/0128/2012128.pdf (pdf 1MB)
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Thu 23 Feb 12 at 20:36
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...is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles...
I think the parking companies will struggle to say parking is, for example, £3 a hour, but it's £80 if you don't pay it at the time of parking.
Even after the bill is enacted, I reckon it's still worth calling their bluff to see if they do sue.
Although my policy is to avoid getting a scam ticket if possible - not had one since 2010.
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>> ...is to a sum of which adequate notice was given to drivers of vehicles...
>>
>> I think the parking companies will struggle to say parking is, for example, £3 a
>> hour, but it's £80 if you don't pay it at the time of parking.
But its easy to publish a tariff saying
0-1 hour free
1+ hours = £80 per hour.
or any combo / cost thereof.
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I'm a serial ignorer as well although I think the local mob have me on file as not worth bothrting to send letters to. Plenty of poor suckers out there to threaten !
I suppose I'll have to buy a small, low maintenance dog and transfer ' keepership ' to him.
Same address, I'll just act as his agent for tax and MOT.
Ted
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hi Smokie,
I had exactly the same problem in Twyford car park- there weren't any spaces left, so i parked in an unmarked bay (car wasn't in anyones way or anything). I enquired at the station if i would get clamped or anything, they wouldn't comment.
I paid the normal parking price and got on train to london,
At least eight other cars had done the same thing.
I had a ticket when i got back, as did the other cars, which i ignored after finding advice on the internet, but now 6 weeks later i got the letter saying debt collectors order you to pay £128 in 14 days or will be pursued....
so i am all for ignoring it, but am now worried about implications on my credit rating- although they are so many people giving the same advice- ignore,
i took photos at the time on my phone.
Im going to check the space again tomorrow, to check that there weren't massive signs saying don't park here. Not sure yet if i will pay or ignore
In the long run it may be cheaper to pay the £50 for early payment now, rather than give in to there bullying letters down the line and end up paying more (which i kind of which i had done....) as if a season ticket is't expensive enough!
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Lou, welcome to the forum.
What they have sent you is an invoice or an invitation to pay them for a non-existant service.
The whole business is a civil matter and, by law, they cannot impose a penalty in a civil action for damages.
You paid the car park fee, they are not out of pocket and they have no claim against you. You owe them diddly-squat.
If you do contact them, do not sign any letter, signatures have been forged in the past.
Suggest that they contact the person who parked the car.....you don't have to say it was you, let them try and find out....they can't and won't. I've been through it all, as has me ole mate Iffy.
Ted
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>> If you do contact them, do not sign any letter, signatures have been forged in
>> the past.
Thinking laterally..... If you were to reply, and used a false signature (ie much different to your real one) could you claim against them for fraud if they faked your (false) signature?
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Lou,
For now it really doesn't matter what the signs say. Until the Protection of Freedoms Bill/Act kicks in later in year these companies are relying on intimidation to get you to pay up.
The extent to which the credit rating agencies might take account of these sort of alleged debts is something I cannot speak for?
At the wire their reputation depends on the reliability of their data. If a County Court Judgement scores 100 points and a missed payment on a credit card 20 points how much worth does a plaintive cry that Lou owes NCP £70 have?
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There is no impact on credit rating because there is no debt.
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ignore them DO NOT engage in any form of communication with them. They soon give up if nothing happens, but if you wriggle the hook, even a little bit, they will be on you like a flash.
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As far as railway byelaws go - its a funny situation. When BR used to operate the parking they had the same enforcement powers as the council. It was an enforceable penalty.
Those powers transferred to Railtrack and then Network rail.
However the powers were lost when and if the station was transferred to the Train Operating Company, and diluted even further when operated by a parking contractor.
Byelaws now only apply to land controlled by Network Rail, that does not apply to most stations and forecourts.
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>> Until the Protection of Freedoms Bill/Act kicks in later in year these companies are relying on intimidation to get you to pay up.
What exactly is this bill? I had a look at Wikipedia but still confused.
Ok, found an easy explanation here.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-12536138
Last edited by: movilogo on Wed 29 Feb 12 at 11:34
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The section concerning parking is linked from my post at 20:32 on 23 Feb.
The bill itself just says Sched 4 shall have effect in relation to recovery of charges for parking on private land
The Sched itself is a pig's breakfiast of paragraphs and clauses and a s*d to navigate.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Wed 29 Feb 12 at 11:48
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Hi All
I'm new to the forum and found you on google. It seems I've parked in the same unmarked parking space as many of you at Twyford railway station carpark but as the space wasn't marked as a 'no parking space' I wrote to Apcoa immediately after receiving the civil parking notice stating that there was no signage highlighting that I should not park in the space.
They have come back to me saying that they uphold the notice and that my car was parked outside of a marked parking bay or designated parking area.
As I've already written to them (and signed the letter...) as I thought that dealing with it promptly was the best thing to do, what options do I have now?
Any thoughts/help much appreciated.
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Ouch!
These tickets are unenforceable because they don't know WHO parked there, merely that a car was parked there. Could have been any person in that car, and they don't have the right to find out.
In your case you have admitted that you, personally, (if you bought a ticket) have entered into a contract with them and failed to abide by the terms of the contract.
You can ignore them, but now they will pursue you, and they will get quite threatening, promising all kinds of retribution if you don't pay, and will threaten to take you to court. They may have a case in fact and might even do it. Your only defence is unfair terms or unfair penalty. There chances are they won't take it to court because they can't afford to lose a test case, but its possible. You are going to have to have shed loads of resolve and guts to ignore this one.
You threw your defence down the drain by admitting you paid and then parked in breach of the terms.
Last edited by: Zero on Mon 30 Apr 12 at 11:15
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Thanks Zero,
Don't have the time or energy to fight too hard, although someone at some point ought to as I guess they are leaving a few spaces 'unmarked' purely to increase their fees each day, certainly where I parked (and I wasn't the only car) there was no reason why it couldn't have been a valid space - it wasn't blocking any exit/entry or any other parking space.
Just wish I'd found this site sooner!
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It's so much a question of fighting as having the strength to ignore their threats.
Of course you also have a problem if you're a regular user; they could clamp you to force the point.
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The Protection of Freedoms Bill is listed on Parliament website as being at ping pong - Commons and Lords finessing each others amends.
As Parliament is prorogued tomorrow its likley that Royal Assent is imminent. No date yet for commencemt of the parking enforcement section. Last time I saw anything that was planned for autumn.
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Protection of Freedoms Act was given Royal Assent yesterday.
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Because of this, last week I registered my car to a 'corporation' at another address.
Any problems, and the car can be registered to a new keeper, and the corporation dissolved.
Last edited by: sooty tailpipes on Fri 4 May 12 at 10:35
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>> Because of this, last week I registered my car to a 'corporation' at another address.
>> Any problems, and the car can be registered to a new keeper, and the corporation
>> dissolved.
>>
Which could well be construed as a breach of the Vehicle Excise and Registration Act and land you with a hefty fine and up to 2 years in jail
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By the sound of it, I'm the only Car4play member who's never received a parking ticket.
Smirk!
:-D
Last edited by: L'escargot on Fri 4 May 12 at 14:22
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>> Smirk!
>> :-D
There are worse things than PCNs Gastropod. There are NIPs too.
'... did wilfully deposit upon the highway quantities of slime to the peril of pedestrians and wheeled vehicles... '
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>> There are worse things than PCNs Gastropod. There are NIPs too.
I've never received an NIP either.
Smirk!
:-D
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Well no more than two, anyway...
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>> >> There are worse things than PCNs Gastropod. There are NIPs too.
>>
>> I've never received an NIP either.
>> Smirk!
>> :-D
Cough
www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=9415
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'... the said slime, represented by the accused as necessary to his means of locomotion, being in excessive quantity upon the said roadway caused several motor vehicles to lose traction and collide with each other and various items of street furniture (see list, photographs and diagrams in Annexe A); whereat the named plaintiffs (see Annexe B) on dismounting from their vehicles to exchange insurance details lost traction in their turn and fell severally to the roadway, to the detriment of their clothing liberally beslobbered with the said slime...'
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Plus 1 for "beslobbered".
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>> '... the said slime, represented by the accused ........
Slither, spook, you'll all be doing it tomorrow!
tinyurl.com/cgf6mcj
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>> >> >> There are worse things than PCNs Gastropod. There are NIPs too.
>> >>
>> >> I've never received an NIP either.
>> >> Smirk!
>> >> :-D
>>
>> Cough
>>
>> www.car4play.com/forum/post/index.htm?t=9415
>>
That wasn't an NIP. The words "intended prosecution" never came into it.
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You got a NIP through the post, unless of course you had waiter service (done in person by a copper at the side of the road.)
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 5 May 12 at 09:29
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APCOA parking ticket - Zero
