Motoring Discussion > What's it like for police to pursue someone? | Miscellaneous |
Thread Author: Westpig | Replies: 22 |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Westpig |
Background info The recently promoted Met Police sergeant has transferred from Central London (Westminster) to an outer London Borough (Harrow). There are pluses and minuses to that. The Central London role was interesting, fun, challenging and stretched you. Being an advanced police driver, you also got to punt the ‘area car’ about, which meant you and another were posted together and took all the emergency calls in a sort of performance police car. You were expected to be a proven crime minded cop and to some extent you could choose all the good calls. The camaraderie was unreal, the social life that went with it equally so, salary was O.K., life was good. The promotion was positive in that there was considerable kudos to it (as it was so difficult to achieve), you got more money, and it was a step forward in your career. The down side was the first management rank i.e. responsibility, and you got all the crap running downhill which met the crap running uphill. Furthermore there were long periods posted in to Custody. So, on the days you can get out and you’re not in Custody or the Control Room, you want to make your mark out on the streets. It’s not your place any more to go diving in and swifting the people that need to be arrested...but…you haven’t properly learnt that yet, you’re still in ‘area car’ mode. You kid yourself that there’s no harm in ‘leading from the front’. So it’s a night duty. There’s a spare area car, an 8v 2.0 Vauxhall Cavalier Sri manual, sat in the back yard. The other two area cars are out on patrol (a 16v 2.0 Cavalier and an auto 2.0 Ford Sierra). Once you’ve established that the ‘guvnor’ (Inspector in charge of the team) doesn’t mind you grab a probationer (probationary Constable in their first 2 years service) and nick the keys to the Cavalier, as it’s infinitely more preferable than the only other option, a Metro. The Cavalier was full audible and visual warning equipment. The Metro has nothing but a blue lamp in the middle of the roof. So, it’s out on patrol……………. The build up So it’s the middle of the shift and you are now bored. The pub fight type calls have come and gone, you’ve tried (and failed) to get a drink driver for the probationer, there’s the slow down period on the night shift where you won’t get many calls…so….you decided to go up to the Middlesex and Herts Country Club, (known to us as the Herts and Tarts) where they have a late licence and night club. The reason for this is two fold: 1, Some of our undesirables frequent the place and there can often be fights. 2, Most of the women that go there have competitions to see who can wear the least clothing. So it’s off to the car park of the club and park in a quiet corner to see what happens. Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn’t, will we be lucky? So there we are sat in the corner of a car park, in a fully marked white police car, with roof bars with blue lights on, you’d think we’d be as obvious as an ice cream van. Strangely enough, quite often we are not. I had the driver’s window open, to listen for raised voices. I heard a straight six engine first of all, being gunned. Then I heard tyres spinning. Across the other side of the car park there was a light coloured 7 series BMW, with some clown lighting up the rear tyres. My first thought was ‘drink/driver’ and then ‘is this car park good enough for evidence purposes’. Didn’t really matter, because my decision was made for me, when the driver left the car park in a trail of blue tyre smoke…… The pursuit ….. and turned left onto Old Redding, heading towards Oxhey Lane….at some speed. I obviously went after it. I was some way back, so didn’t bother putting on the blues and twos, because I didn’t want him to realise and have enough time to dive in somewhere and have me miss him, or drive off so quickly we didn’t get the registration plate etc. At the bottom of Old Redding, through the horrible down hill twisty bit, the car turned left on Oxhey Lane, towards Harrow Town, and by now had slowed down somewhat, so I lit up the blue lights etc… At which point he went for it. Now despite the fact I’d been an advanced driver for 5 years or so (and they are the ones authorised to pursue), being previously in Central London I’d only ever been on the periphery of someone else’s, as there are many more police ‘area cars’ down there in small areas of jurisdiction and/or my previous oiks had given up early….so this was my first real pursuit. I thrapped absolute hell out of that Cavalier to keep it anywhere near the BMW. At the Uxbridge Road, it turned left towards Stanmore. Where the driver made a mistake was he’d floor the BMW on any straight, start to noticeably get away, after some wild fishtailing, then think he’d do the back doubles. There was nowt wrong with my eyesight and with my standing on the brakes (in the dry) and letting the ABS do all the work and using the superior handling of a front wheel drive SRi Cavalier versus the large saloon handling of a late 80’s/ early 90’s 7 series…I could sort of keep up. This went on for some time. He turned right into Church lane, then again into Gordon Avenue and right again into Kenton Lane (northbound). As we crossed the Uxbridge Road again, I saw the Sierra area car waiting there for us. My probationer passenger had been giving a commentary on the ‘mainset’. The London police Boroughs get a ‘personal radio’ link for that Borough only, which you access via your own personal issue radio, but for pursuits you use the vehicle radio, which was direct to New Scotland Yard. This poor probationer did in fact do half a reasonable job, but you have to remember he was brand new, which meant at times I had to tell him what to say. As we crossed the Uxbridge Road into Clamp Hill, I saw the Sierra start to follow us..but by then we had a fair momentum going and he had to start from scratch…plus…I was in a manual and he an auto and there is a difference. The BMW meanwhile was virtually out of sight. At the top of Clamp Hill, we were back to Old Redding again. I had no sight of the BMW, but knew by his speed he couldn’t possibly have turned left or right at the lights, so went straight on into Old Redding…where I saw Geoff the Special, beached up a pavement and grass verge in one of the Metro pandas..he’d heard the pursuit was coming that way and wanted to help. The bandit car had come through the traffic lights so fast it had ended up on the wrong side of the road, so Geoff had to take eveasive action rather urgently. He shouldn’t have been there really, he was a basic driver so had no training at all, so should have kept clear, although in those circs you can argue for people making their way to the vicinity to await an accident or bale out. Across the top of Old Redding I had no vision of the BMW at all, but at the top of the downhill twisty bit, I could see lights through the trees, some 300 yards plus, in front…and…to my satisfaction, by the time I got to the mini roundabout at Oxhey Lane (again) I was right up his chuff…close enough to nudge if I’d been allowed to. I’m not sure whether he’d had a moment in the twisties or whether I’d just got it right, but nevertheless we got close enough for the number plate and brief description of occupants. Surprise, surprise, it was showing ‘stolen’. Up until then we had no idea what this was all about, which makes me laugh when some folk moan that the police should not chase people unless it’s for serious crime. How the hell are we supposed to know in most cases? So off we go southbound in Oxhey Lane again, this time straight over into Courtenay Avenue. Same old routine, straight bits he gets away, roundabouts and junctions I’m there again. At one point I managed to get right alongside and take a look at the driver, hoping to recognise him (which we didn’t, not helped by the fact neither of us had been on the Borough long). .********* From Harrow View we turned right into Cunningham Park, left into Pinner View and then right onto Pinner Road heading North… …straight through the junction with Imperial Drive, a red light, at about 70 mph. I didn’t. No way. I slowed down to about 35-40mph, which in hindsight was still too fast. The BMW had a right head start on me now, whereby it went through the red light at the junction with Headstone Lane at about 100mph (plus). So game over. The long uphill part of George V Avenue had the Cavalier struggling, the Sierra even more so and the BMW had a good 60 mph advantage all the way up George V Avenue. The only consolation was I’d obviously rattled the thief, because we found the car an hour later hidden in a farm entrance at the back of Pinner Golf Club, it had been abandoned immediately. So what did I take from it? My red lights were too fast. 20-25 mph at 3am in the morning would be more like it…can you imagine if a motorcycle had come though on a green, would I have stopped in time or evaded him, doubt it…doesn’t bear thinking about. The probationer did well. The other lads laughed like hell when we had a brew and a de-brief. He was as white as a sheet, like a ghost, and his hands were still trembling. He still gave a reasonable commentary on the radio though. We’ve laughed about is since over the years as we remained mates, although to show my age, he’s now got 20 years in. Afterwards What could we have done better? Can’t remember why, but the police helicopter was unavailable, that would have cured it. Were the tools up to the job? No, not really. They are now, the modern equivalent of that Cavalier is a BMW 325d auto..it goes like a rocket ship. The Job went through a drastic phase of penny pinching, which resulted in the wrong equipment. How long before that happens again? Déjà vu anyone? For police officers to safely pursue someone, they need to be in something with the performance and handling to go with it. You often find a lot of the locals will know what the Old Bill have and will give up early if they’ve got something decent. It’s far safer. Was my training up to it? Yes as it happens. The police advanced course is very, very good. I have had the added advantage of having my stepfather teach me to drive before I was old enough to go on the roads and he was a race car driver..so I was enable to combine the two disciplines to extract the most out of it. Nowadays though, there’s a distinct possibility that a pursuit of that sort would be disallowed. In the old days the control room supervisors were police officers, usually a sergeant and they knew with remarkable clarity when to step in and when not to. These days, that post will have been civilianised and a civilian manager will be in charge. Many of them are utterly risk averse and will stick to SOP’s (Standard Operating Procedures) like glue. They will have never done the job, never been there, so have no idea what the total picture is. That, believe me, is a bad thing, although inevitably, cheaper. Is it good or bad having more pursuits cancelled? Is it safer or in the long run do the bad guys realise they can have a free for all? I have my own firm views; you make your own mind up. The other thing is, should the British Police be allowed to terminate pursuits by using contact? There’s a distinctly unofficial version, an exclusive ‘traffic police’ preserve where they can jam someone in at the last minute. There are units that are authorised to do that e.g. specific crime units, but the general cop cannot do so. Would it be ultimately safer? I think so and definitely so in the above circumstances, I could have spun him out before he did his 100mph red lights. Trouble is it takes training and training = money, so it won’t happen…but how much does it cost society for someone to be killed, let alone the human misery that goes with it? I do know though that the adrenalin rush was awesome, there’s nothing like it. Having to rein it in through that adrenalin rush was easier than I thought and the time flew by, all of a sudden the shift came to an end, although there was no hope in hell of sleep. It didn’t do my reputation any harm either. I was 29 years old and now a sergeant in charge of some right crusty old PCs. It didn’t hurt for them to see I could practice what I preached and was willing to get stuck in if need be. If anyone says they don’t enjoy and get a buzz out of something like that then they’re lying to you. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - - |
I enjoyed that WP, thanks for posting. I don't like seeing scallies getting away with stuff like this any more than the average police officer i dare say, so i'm all in favour of there being no such thing as stopping a chase. However we don't live in a country where decent unimportant people leave peaceful safe lives and criminals get their just rewards. If going to all the risk and trouble of catching criminals like these ended up in a court where a proper judge dished out fair justice, then i'd say do all you can to catch the blighters. Too often though officers go to a lot of trouble to catch criminals only for some half wit on the bench to decide they need yet another chance, so give them a puny instead of punitive sentence that is an insult to the coppers that took the trouble and the victims of the crime....this with all types of crime...bet you could write a book on the failure of the system to wrap up good work done by front line officers. Does the knowledge that subsequent decisions by the justice system and soft punishments sometimes make officers wonder if its all worth it long before some manager calls it off? Interesting to see the modern capable pursuit car is RWD..;) Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sat 18 Feb 12 at 08:02
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What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Zero |
Excelent WP! |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - AnotherJohnH |
Very good. Not to discourage, but this the sort of stuff you are up against: inspectorgadget.wordpress.com/ "Doughnuts and Diversity" pcbloggs.blogspot.com/ ;-) |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Dog |
Excellent report, and very well written. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Woodster |
WP: ''Trouble is it takes training and training = money, so it won’t happen…but how much does it cost society for someone to be killed, let alone the human misery that goes with it?'' Trouble is WP, when there was more training, there were more fatalities in pursuits. No-one would disagree with what you say about not knowing why the criminal is fleeing, but on most occasions it's for something relatively trivial when compared with a life. Even theirs. How many pursuits were you aware of where the fleeing driver was wanted for something so serious that other methods couldn't wait? |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Iffy |
...How many pursuits were you aware of where the fleeing driver was wanted for something so serious that other methods couldn't wait?... I've covered many pursuits over the years and can't bring one to mind where the driver was wanted for anything very serious. Most common is nicking the car he's driving, or some other motoring offence such as drink driving. Some domestics end with one party storming out of the house and driving like an idiot - there's often booze involved in those. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Westpig |
The problem with not pursuing is it tells some in society they can 'just get on with it', commit crime to their hearts content....and if a police car tries to stop them, they drive like a **** and it's game over, the pursuit is terminated and off they drive into the sunset. I'm not convinced that is acceptable, although having 'been there' there's no way I'd want the death of someone decent on my conscience. Now if the oik died, that would be a case of 'you create your own luck in life' and i'd have no sleepless nights over that. On my last Borough before retiring (Barnet) they, like others, had a noticeable problem with burglars turning up in a stolen vehicle usually something very quick like a Cooper S, they'd break in steal whatever, inc another car (normally something decent and quick) and off they'd go in convoy. If the Old Bill got involved, they'd drive (deliberately) so badly that we'd call the pursuit off e.g. wrong way up the M1 or wrong way up a dual carriageway. No easy answers...but an automatic 'no' to pursuits isn't the answer either. A decent sentence at court might cure it. but i wouldn't hold your breath on that one. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Clk Sec |
Very interesting, WP. Ever thought of becoming a journalist? |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Runfer D'Hills |
Funny you should say that CS. I was going to suggest to WP that a collection of stories from his career might have the makings of a book. I'd be interested in reading such a thing as I'm sure would many others. Especially those of us who have no real understanding of police work other than what we get from TV dramas. Good stuff WP. More please ! |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - - |
Agreed, write, and standing for a political party wouldn't do any harm either, how many of us desperately want someone worth voting for. Someone of moral backbone and honour might find politics a lonely place but from small acorns?? |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Westpig |
>> Very interesting, WP. Ever thought of becoming a journalist? >> Yes. Seriously considered it at school. Was always good at English. Trouble was my parent's broken marriage and mother with limited finances meant I had to make my way sharpish in this world...and joining the police cadets at 17 seemed a good way forward...as all bed and board paid for and a smallish wage to keep you going until you automatically transferred as a Constable to Training School...i.e. no more processes to have to go through... ...and I have no regrets. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - henry k |
>>A decent sentence at court might cure it. but i wouldn't hold your breath on that one. >> watching some of the "cops" TV programmes I am very often surprised at what appears to be just a slapped wrist at the end of things. Currently in the news. Warwick Crown Court heard officers decided it was safer to let him get away. He was later arrested after police saw the footage online www.itn.co.uk/home/39264/Wrong-way+driver+banned+from+the+roads news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16172113 Warwick Crown Court heard McInulty had a "significant record" of motoring offences and was on licence at the time of the incident, on June 5 last year, after being released from a prison sentence for robbery. Suspending his eight-month sentence for two years, Recorder Richard Atkins QC told him: "When the police officer went after you, you then drove appallingly McInulty, who works for a scrap metal merchant, was ordered to pay costs of £1,800 and complete 200 hours of unpaid work. The judge also made him the subject of a 30-day activity order. He was given a three-year driving ban, after which time he will have to sit an extended test. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Cliff Pope |
My thoughts are: The police have limited resources. They are used to having to weigh up pros and cons, and to the application of those resources to the areas most likely to make a difference. Unfortunately some criminals have to be allowed to get away with it - not necessarily for ever, but on this occasion perhaps. We can all think of areas that are under-policed, crimes that affect individuals' sense of justice and well being, or their enjoyment of their lives and property. So the question isn't, should this joy-rider be allowed to get away with it on this occasion ? - but what is the most important kind of crime to devote scare resources to? I suspect for many people the most important crime isn't that of a young tear-away reving up his car looking for someone to challenge him, but terrorism, burglary, vandalism, perhaps high-level tax-evasion. I'd be more upset by hearing that someone's break-in wasn't considered worth investigating than by the noise of screaming tyres as someone guns it from a pub car park. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Westpig |
>> I suspect for many people the most important crime isn't that of a young tear-away >> reving up his car looking for someone to challenge him, but terrorism, burglary, vandalism, perhaps high-level tax-evasion. When I was an Inspector in charge of community policing and often went to those type of meetings...the then new Safer Neighbourhood teams would canvas local people for their views on policing priorities. The locals declare the following as their priorities, virtually every time: - anti-social behaviour (very low level stuff, such as kids playing football or 'hanging around') - dogs fouling pavements - people cycling on pavements - motorists speeding The police priorities would however be: - residential burglaries - street muggings - drug dealing - car crime (sometimes..that one comes and goes) Just wait until these new elected Police Commissioners come in. Politics well and truly mixed with policing...lovely. Immediate knee jerk reaction anyone...when the political Commissioner says 'jump'...for some piece of dung that he/she cares nothing about, but it will be a vote winner. >>I'd be more upset by hearing that someone's break-in wasn't considered worth >>investigating than by the noise of screaming tyres as someone guns it from a pub car >> park. >> In the stolen car that was once someone's pride and joy? Stolen nowadays usually from home burglaries. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - swiss tony |
>> I suspect for many people the most important crime isn't that of a young tear-away >> reving up his car looking for someone to challenge him, but terrorism, burglary, vandalism, perhaps high-level tax-evasion. I'd be more upset by hearing that someone's break-in wasn't considered worth investigating than by the noise of screaming tyres as someone guns it from a pub car park. >> With the proceeds of a burglary in the boot? |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Woodster |
Agreed - no easy answers. The other carriageway option is normally a good one for crims but there are other options - you'll understand if I don't discuss them here. Stealing cars by means of burglary is probably neck and neck with burglary to steal other goods. Very much a problem right now. Regards, |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Ian (Cape Town) |
Sadly, it doesn't always end well. This from today's local news. A well known former resident of Oudtshoorn, Friedel Roller is facing two charges of murder following a fatal car crash in Hartenbos in which two young girls from the town were killed. Roller, who only sustained light injuries in the crash on Friday night, allegedly crashed into a vehicle driven by Jaco van Wyk during a high speed chase with the police. The accident happened at 20:40 when Roller (39), the former owner of Friedel's Restaurant in Baron van Reede Street (now Cosmic Cafe), allegedly fled from the police after he was pulled off the road for reckless driving. According to the police he was stopped after he passed the police illegally on a solid line, but jumped back in his car and fled when the police produced an alcohol breathalyzer test. He then crashed into the vehicle of van Wyk, killing van Wyk's daughter Sonika (11), her friend Dante' Hageman (10) and seriously injuring Van Wyk and his other daughter, 7-year old Janika. According to the police Roller has numerous previous convictions for drunken driving. Roller remains in custody and will lodge a bail application in the Mossel Bay Magistrates court next Tuesday, 21 February. Roller appeared briefly in the Mossel Bay magistrates court yesterday and the charge of culpable homicide was changed to murder. Roller is being kept at the Correctional Services facility in George. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Note the 'murder' charge - something that is becoming quite frequent here. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Westpig |
Can one of the mods give me some feedback as to the appropriateness of the length of my original post, please. I don't want to clog the system up (I did try to post a word attachment, but failed miserably). I'll happily post stuff if people find it interesting......and can easily desist if they don't. Cheers. |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - nyx2k |
superb post. many many more please |
What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Dave_ |
>> I'll happily post stuff if people find it interesting Please do, WP. I regularly read several blue-light blogs but your style is a refreshing change from the usual moans about the job, it shows the enjoyment to be had from executing a difficult task well. I would say that C4P is the perfect forum (pun intended) for such writing. 14 green thumbs (a record?) agree with me. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sat 18 Feb 12 at 23:11
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What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Fullchat |
While we are swinging the Lamp :-) One night shift I was just leaving the nick in the T5 with the intention of picking up my crew mate at the back door. Just at that point a pursuit was started by a beat car. As my partner jumped in I shouted "Pursuit "and we were off. I was the nearest car with all the authorities and soon picked up the errant driver. We were this way and that and eventually got the car cornered in a cul de sac. The driver was caught and cuffed and returned back to the scene of the bail out where I see this Special doubled over honking up into the gutter. Now this Special came on duty at our nick and had been in the building when I left. "In an attempt to show some concern I ask, "How did you get here?" "In the back of your car" was the reply. :-O Apparently they had heard the pursuit on the radio and come out of the nick at the same time as my mate. As my head had been turned giving my mate the brief as they jumped in the car the Special had jumped in the back seat. That'll learn them :-) Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 19 Feb 12 at 00:04
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What's it like for police to pursue someone? - Westpig |
I'll gratefully receive the 22 little green thumbs ups...and add this paragraph which got left off the first one due to a mildly naughty word. Insert it where the asterix's appear, roughly half way down. "I then start to get a problem with the Cavalier. The brakes were by now a tad spongy, but that’s par for the course. The real problem was I’d been changing gear so fast I’d knackered the gearbox and was having real problems changing from 2nd to 3rd, which only alleviated itself when I realised it would still worked if I double de-clutched for that part of the sequence. This had allowed the BMW to pull away a bit and the Sierra to catch up. I even radioed the Sierra to tell the driver I was having gearbox problems and to be prepared to take over..but then sorted out the double de-clutching, so off we went again". Last edited by: Westpig on Mon 20 Feb 12 at 17:31
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