Well, it is new company car time and I 'think' I've narrowed it down to one of these. Whichever I choose, it will be a Saloon with an automatic gearbox.
I've read loads about the 520d but finding info about the E250Cdi with the new 7 speed gearbox is proving tricker.
I don't really care about mpg or other costs, I am more concerned with all day comfort, refinement and general living with the cars.
Does anyone have any feedback on the E? (or the 520d)
Thanks.
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I looked at both of these, albeit in estate form, before buying my current car. It does in part depend which trim level you go for, but I thought the Merc was more comfortable and easier to live with, though less refined. It was also better equiped - xenon lights, heated leather seats, power tailgate, Sat Nav (though I think this has now been deleted with the end of 'Edition 125' E classes) on the one I went for
The BMW is available in SE or M Sport AFAIK; the dealers I tried only had M Sports available, and the ones I drove were fitted with variable damper control (a £1k option); concensus is that this is a must have option. Certainly neither of the dealers I tried had a demo without it... Ride was fine but firm, handling fine, though not as balanced as the E60/61 I didnt think, but tyre noise was irritating. It felt smaller from the drivers seat, though by no means cramped. The interior was very good - I've had a couple of the previous shape 5 series, and the interior was the thing that let them down IMO. The F10/11 is far far better; finally on a par with Audi for interior ambience I think
The MB is available in SE, Avantgarde and Sport trim. SE is on 16" wheels and is markedly softer than the lowered 'sport' suspension on the A/G. The A/G on 17" wheels rides much better than the BMW on 18" wheels. The Sport model is on 18" wheels with, I think, suspension that's firmer still. Even so, it still rides better than the BMW IMO
In the end the fact that the MB had more space, more equipment, a better ride and was cheaper tipped the balance. The BMW does have a nicer interior though, and from memory the engine noise was better supressed.
Comfort wise the MB came with heated leather seats as standard (at least in A/G trim) with lumbar support. Lumbar and heated seats are optional on the BMW in SE trim; M Sports come with lumbar, but heated seats are still optional I think. The seat squab is shorter on the MB though
Just my thoughts - let me know if you have any questions!
Peter
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Couple of comments that I've seen are that some people just can't get on with the standard steering in the BMW and the 7 speed box now fitted to the E250 has quite a delay from rest.
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Colleague of mine has a new 520d automatic with, as the dealers say, all the toys. It's a fabulous car. Quiet, high revving diesel engine, smooth shifting 8 speed automatic and the usual BMW combination of accurate steering and neutral handling. Ride is far better than the E60, and the cabin is (IMHO) the nicest in any premium class car. I also like the new E-Class but the 5 is better.
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Yeah, the current 520d is starting to appear at work now as the wheels of choice for those in the grade above me.
Had a sit in one the other day. Very nice interior as Bagpuss points out, with a quantum leap in material quality and general ambience compared to my E90 3-series.
The performance / emissions / economy compromise is scarcely believable.
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I sat in a 5 series (not sure of model) and very nice it was. Then moved over to sit in a top of the range 3 series and the quality and ambience were worlds apart. The 5 series (and probably the new 3 series) were much nicer.
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Damn this thread! Just as I had my decision down to a straight Volvo-Skoda contest, it occurred to me that there's plenty of room in an E estate. Not a new one for me - out of range - but I could afford a 2009-10 E220CDI from the previous, better-looking range.
Mentioned the idea to Mrs Beest, who is amused at the effect a Mercedes would have on her mother. (Her parents have for decades kept their Ford dealer in holidays by taking back a barely-worn car every three years and paying the asking price for a new one.) MiL is already appalled that we have a detached house; a Mercedes outside would put her in a flat spin.
So, talk me out of it - please! I've been stacking up the bad points - heavy car, heavy consumption, peculiar parking brake, poor dealer service, more to insure - but I can't quite bring myself to scrub it out.
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But you know you want one and if you don't do it, you'll always regret it;)
Pat
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Fat lot of help you turned out to be, Pat.
}:---P
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Women are logical and Mrs W de B will know that too so she will be expecting you to get one!
Life's too short to deny a pleasure if you can afford it, just enjoy it.
Pat
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E Class estate? Best car I've ever had WDB and I've been lucky enough to have some rather nice ones in the past... ( including a couple of Volvo estates and a 5 BMW series as it happens )
Whistles and carries on with stuff....
Anyway, whaddya mean better looking older one? Damn cheek...
:-)
Know what you mean about the "image" though. Got some right stick at the Rugby club when I turned up in mine. "Why was he born so beautiful etc" seemed to be being hummed by the majority.
Twonks.
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Oops, didn't notice the reference to the previous generation one (S211 I believe).
I had one of them too; cracking car - an '04 E270 CDI. If anything on balance it was better than the current one ;-) More solid and 'wafty', if a little less fun to drive. the 5 cylinder engine was great, but it only averaged 33mpg (auto)...
Peter
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My E250 Sport estate has done 12000 miles now and I've not reset the mpg thingy since it had 200 miles on it. It seems to think it's averaging 43mpg which sounds about right when I calculate the fuel costs versus mileage. Not bad for a big car with 200 bhp I thought. Mine is a five speed auto even though it's the new body shape. Goes like stink and handles too. Mind you I'm comparing it in recent times anyway to a Qashqai so maybe that's not entirely fair. Hardish ride would be my only criticism. I think the "sport" suspension set up might be to blame. Not really complaining though. Love it.
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The trip on mine says 41.7 IIRC, but the check I did on a couple of tanks indicate it was about 2.5% optimistic, so 40.7 'true' in my case. Not bad at all
Suspension on the Avantgarde is not too hard (and, I believe, softer than that on the Sport?), but definitely on the firm side. I still think the 18" wheels are unnecessary; an Avantgarde on 17" wheels is probably the optimum blend of ride/handling precision. My other bug bear is still the absurdly small fuel tank - I struggle to get 50 litres in from the warning light coming on; just not big enough IMO!!
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>> So, talk me out of it - please! I've been stacking up the bad points
>> - heavy car, heavy consumption, peculiar parking brake, poor dealer service, more to insure -
>> but I can't quite bring myself to scrub it out.
>>
Taking the bad points in the order you've listed them:
No heavier than the equivalent 5 series - not that that's likely to help from a mother-in-law perspective, since I expect a BMW touring would have a similar effect!
5k miles in an E250CDI auto has averaged a smidge over 40mpg - for you to decide if that's good or bad
How often do you use the parking brake on an auto with a 'hold' facility?
Dealer service is so region specific it's difficult to say; good and bad across all
More to insure? Costs pretty much the same as our A4 to insure
We ended up with one because it is bigger than the Skoda Superb; didn't even look at the Volvo because teh Mondeo, 5 Series, A6 and Skoda are all bigger than a V70 inside
Hope that hasn't helped too much ;-)
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>>>> So, talk me out of it - please! I've been stacking up the bad points
>> - heavy car, heavy consumption, peculiar parking brake, poor dealer service, more to insure -
>> but I can't quite bring myself to scrub it out.
>>
I am very pleased with mine.
Never (well, hardly ever) use the parking brake; just put the lever in Park.
The dealer service is excellent.
The 2.2 litre diesel engine gives very good fuel consumption.
More to insure? I don't think so.
What's not to like?
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Thanks, chaps - I think.
}:---)
The small tank seems a bizarre omission, especially in view of the high-performance petrol cars in the range. How far would an E55 go on 50 litres?
Come to think of it, maybe the tank is part of the reason for the V70's comparatively small interior space. One thing I really appreciate about my old S60 is that it will go 650 miles between fills.
On the matter of dealers, my neighbours (he's a retired bank manager and golf club stalwart) have two MBs, so I'll ask about their experiences.
Benchmark is the V70 for seat comfort, interior ambience and adequate space. The Superb has the space - and a proper handbrake - but I need a long drive to be convinced of the seats. The E220 is a bit of a wildcard but seems worth a try. At least I don't have to worry about the 520d because the new one is out of budget and the old has LHD wipers.
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The lack of cam belt would swing it for me. Don't like cam belts. Well, three of 'em didn't like me anyway and that was enough to put me off.
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I think it's only the 4 cylinder W/S212 (current shape) that has a small (59 litre) tank, which in reality means a 500 mile range before the light comes on. 6 cylinder models get a 80 litre tank, which is an option on the 4 cylinder ones.
My old S211 had an 80 litre tank, but I distinctly remember that being part of the Avantgarde spec - IIRC the standard tank was 65 or 70 litres. If you look at an S211 E220 they came in standard trim, Avantgarde (slightly 'sporty', part leather, xenon lights, blue tinted glass), Elegance (comfort orientated, green tinted glass) and Sport on later ones (bigger wheels, 'sport' styling etc etc) Again, Avantgarde seemed like the best combination to me at the time
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Go and try the E-class for yourself WDB.
When I bought my Volvo the main target for me was to buy a car that would last me 10 years. I hired an E-class (220CDi) for a long weekend to see how it felt. SWMBO'd has back problems and could not get the passenger seat (electric) into a position where she was comfortable.
I didn't like it for the engine. Very sluggish when mated to an autobox. Getting passed a Sprinter van on the autobahn took a looooooong time. It must have been like watching two HGV's on the A14.
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WdB - you'll no doubt try an E250 and find out whether you like it, but I think the choice is between new or used. I like to buy new, and I prefer FWD, but I probably should have chosen a C-class estate a few years ago when I had a B200 CDI, which I disliked greatly.
But the Reading dealer, Greenoaks, was excellent, probably because they are family-owned (they were in 200 anyway) unlike most others which are owned by MB directly.
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We looked at a V70 as a replacement for our too small but much loved S60. We chose a 2006 E220 CDI as a more comfortable and nicer to be in alternative.
A year on, and I still love it. Comfortable, well-equipped and supremely capable. We have the elegance trim, which has the walnut trim (avant-garde has a weird green-ish maple). Do see if you can get the COMAND option, with the integrated sat nav, audio and phone kit. Ours is silver with black leather. I would have preferred dark blue with beige (which I think looks great), but heigh ho.
A great car, and I agree more handsome than the new version.
HTH,
Alex.
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Well I'll try and hijack my original post back to the original question.....
I've got test drives booked with both BWM and Mercedes so I'll report back on both cars in due course.
Thanks all
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Nice try, A900. };---)
Getting passed a Sprinter van on the autobahn...
Now, sorry, Gmac, but you'll have to explain that concept to me. Passing a Sprinter van? Wasn't that how those wayward neutrinos got from Italy to Switzerland faster than they had any right to?
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:-)
They didn't do it in anything wearing an E220 badge...
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Well i've just been told that all e classes are being removed from our car list due to unreliability. I guess that just leaves a choice between the 520d and the A6 now. As I'm not too keen on Audi's, I guess the decision won't take too long.
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I've not looked at the new A6 yet - and only got a new car in October.
When I see images of the new A6, and the interior of most Audis (A4, A5, A6, A7 and A8)... I think I like it. I then sat in an A4 and found the all black console with MMI is not as intuitive as I'd like. And the pedals were/are slightly offset in RHD cars.
I sat in a BMW 520 and I liked it a lot. And at that point in time I could get one by paying a contribution of £9/month so a bargain too. And then when I could order one it had gone up to £90/month. So I didn't get one.
Not sure I actually wanted a BMW anyway. I thought I wanted an Audi and then realised I didn't. Maybe look at the A6 next time round :-)
I think a 520d in EfficientDynamics spec makes a lot of sense money wise. But the new 320 is worth a look. It looks like a smaller 5 series but not as small or compromised as the previous 3 series. And the 320 ED model emits only 109g/km of CO2.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 17 Feb 12 at 16:53
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The 520d ED is a cracking car, and a no brainer as a company option (though the thresholds move next tax year so it jumps from the 13% to 17% band IIRC).
You need the adaptive dampers to make it drive like a BMW though - with them it's virtually as agile as a 3 series, but with a better ride and more space. Spec for spec (F10 to F30) it's really not much more expensive either
Peter
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I can only comment on the previous 3 series vs current 5 series.
When I sat in both back to back in the dealers the 5 series (low down the range) felt special. The top of the range 3 series felt like a class of car below. Well I know it was but it did not feel special. I might go to look at the new one when it is out.
When I got my Passat CC I factored in the jump in BIK - mine never got below the threshold to get 13% BIK for Oct-Apr. But I compared costs based on next April. So some cars that were 13% became 17% so not as cheap anymore. Mine is 18% this year and 19% next mind :-)
Oh and I like the adaptive dampers on my car too - it rides well considering the car has 18" wheels. Comfortable and soft sprung in comfort mode. It is usually in normal mode... and on fast A roads and the motorway I actually put it in sport (steering weights up nicely at the same time). Not much feel mind :-)
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>> Well i've just been told that all e classes are being removed from our car
>> list due to unreliability.
Pity that.
Mercs are finally getting to the bottom of the injector issues.
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Too early to be sure I suppose Tony but for what it's worth mine has been faultless in its first 13000 miles.
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BMW 520d or Mercedes E250 Cdi - PeterS
