Well, the 2011 numbers are in, my personal performance has been assessed, and it looks as if the Beest piggy bank will be heavy enough to fund a change of car this year.
Trouble is, what change? I know we've been here before, but every time I run this exercise I come up with a different answer, so I'll put it to the panel and ask what you would do. The question is not what to buy - it'll be big and estate-shaped, with the Volvo V70 and Skoda Superb on the front row of the grid - but what to sell.
The obvious candidate to change is our nine-year-old Volvo S60 D5, which we've had since it was my company car two jobs ago. Assorted reasons:
- it's old;
- it's short of space in the back;
- it's relatively expensive to service and insure;
- Mrs Beest likes riding in it but finds it unwieldy to drive and park;
- we've not been able to fix the old-car foible that makes it occasionally hard to select a gear from neutral.
On the other hand,
- it's depreciating very little, if at all;
- it has a reliable, EuroIII diesel engine and easily betters 45mpg;
- most of the bits likely to give expensive trouble (intercooler, DMF) have broken and been replaced in the last two years;
- it's still all I need for my 45-minute M4 commute;
- it's not worth much, so wouldn't contribute much towards the cost of a replacement;
- it's still a pleasure to own and drive in spite of its age.
Now the other candidate, the Toyota Verso 2.2D that we bought new in 2008 with high hopes that its versatile seating and loading options would open up new vistas of family adventure. It hasn't quite turned out that way, and the Verso has settled into the role of useful but unloved family appliance.
Let's check the points in favour of selling the Verso:
- its principal virtue - the ability to fit three boosters abreast in the second row - matters less to us now that our two children and their friends are getting tall enough to ride without boosters;
- we've used the third row of seats a handful of times in four years;
- neither of us much enjoy driving it, although Mrs Beest finds it easier to park than the Volvo;
- it has a truly dreadful audio system that makes listening to anything but speech radio a chore rather than a pleasure;
- it would probably make a useful dent in the price of our new car;
...and of keeping it:
- it's easy to load with children and kit, which can make getting away to junior activities (judo, cricket etc) a little bit quicker;
- it's proving to be very well built - the interior shows no sign of wear at all;
- Mrs Beest's journeys are mostly short and local, so without the Verso she'd have to use the S60 rather than the new, DPF'd car - so I lose the use of my Volvo either way;
Just writing all that out (through the less than helpful interface of Quickoffice) has helped me organize my thoughts, but I'll be interested to hear yours. So which would you sell?
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Get rid of the car that neither of you like and use the cash in it to buy something 'nice', you only live once.
The old faithful can, if looked after, be driven in to the ground, so allow 'er indoors' to do the local trips in that.
The new car will eat a m/way commute and although the miles will notch up a little bit, it's easy stuff, so what does it matter.
Be alive, enjoy the sun shine, the birds singing......and a gleaming new dream car on the drive way.
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it's still all I need for my 45-minute M4 commute;
it's still a pleasure to own and drive in spite of its age.
Both sound like they are doing an adequate job (although, is that enough?)
Sell neither and get a VX220 (or any 'weekend' car that takes your fancy), or keep saving.
Last edited by: ToMoCo on Thu 2 Feb 12 at 14:06
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I agree with Westpig. Get rid of the "appliance".
The S60 is a very likeable car, and will be very hard to replace, especially as a motorway commuter. I still miss mine in many ways even a couple of years on. The armchair seats, the impeccable build quality both on the surface and under the skin, the growling 5 pot, the best factory sound system ever fitted to a mass produced car, the equipment, the reliability, the low noise levels..... Just a very satisfying car to own, and if you don't need rear seat space, or do a lot of driving over poor, or twisty roads, it's a very hard car to replace. Fuel consumption was the sole reason for selling my (petrol) example.
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Change neither, save the money.
You still like the Volvo, its running well and does what you ask of it, so its a keeper. And if you change the Verso, it seems you won't be driving its replacement anyway.
If the Verso is unloved enough that you're seriously considering getting rid of it, then shouldn't the question be what would Mrs Beest like instead of it (to drive, not just travel in!) as it appears she'll be the one driving it most of the time in practice...
Edit: A new car on the drive is nice. But also weigh that up against the other things you could do with the same money.
Last edited by: Gromit on Thu 2 Feb 12 at 14:29
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The best cars are the ones that you dont notice, it usually means they are better than you give them credit for. Id keep the Verso.
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It's not quite as simple as 'his car - her car'. The S60 used to be the family car and we had a Fabia for runabout duties. By the time we felt the need of more space, the Fabia was eight years old, so we sold that and kept the Volvo for the much longer motorway commute I was doing before we relocated. But the Verso is the car we use for family trips, including holidays, soni drive it a lot; in fact, I've probably driven more than half its miles, but not half its journeys.
If we replace the Verso, unless we choose a petrol Skoda, the DPF will mean the car is better suited to my longish drives than Mrs B's shorter ones, so I probably will take it to work. If it's comfortable enough (ie probably another Volvo) then that will be no great hardship.
I think the eventual plan will be to get back to a more conventional first car-second car set-up, perhaps with something Golf-sized and petrol-powered taking the place of whatever we don't sell now. But I'll have to earn this year's money before we can consider that!
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You hate the Verso, you always have, every now and again you come on here to talk about it in uncomplimentary terms.
Get rid.
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Agree with Gromits post above and ToMoCo apparently, keep both and pay a lump sum off the mortgage if you still have one, assuming you owe money nowhere else...should mind me own business and no offence meant..;)
Before you even buy one of the two cars you have pencilled in you are already limiting the use they can be put to because of the DPF, that would hack me off no end.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 2 Feb 12 at 16:16
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Buy the car you want - life's too short.
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>> Buy the car you want - life's too short.
>>
+1
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Your first point in favour of the Volvo is that "it's depreciating very little, if at all;" therefore money is an issue.
This is completely at odds with a desire to spend some tens of thousands on a new Volvo, isn't it?
If you want a new car, then buy one. But I don't see how you can do it at the same time as mentioning how wonderfully cheap the Volvo is.
It's got a slightly notchy gearbox. Your new car might too.
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Not sure how you work that out, just because he mentioned that one point, it doesn't logically follow he has money issues.
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V50 T5........look into my eyes ......
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After a D5 WDB would think he had a hole in the fuel tank.
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 2 Feb 12 at 18:22
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Yes.
Keep the much-loved, highly practical Volvo, get rid of the ghastly people carrier (if that's what it is) and get a snorting monster or snizzling road bullet for fun to go with it. You lucky (or non-loser) so-and-so...
Perhaps you should take the Sheikh's advice and get an i10...
I wonder how much a usable Model T Ford costs these days? They are eminently tweakable and sporting variants are quite common.
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>> Perhaps you should take the Sheikh's advice and get an i10...
Wilderbeasts don't fit in i10's, or VX220's as mentioned above.
I had to laugh when you mentioned the stereo in the Verso WDB, because the one in my Avensis is just as bad - a real bugbear. For the radio stations that I listen to, I end up turning it off after half an hour because it ends up being an irritation rather than a pleasure. Normally I would uprate the speakers but I just can't be bothered with this car.
Keep the S60 - you've sorted the big weaknesses. Nine years isn't that old in my eyes, certainly not for a Volvo of that type. I saw an immaculate 960 turbo estate at some traffic lights today - quiet running and superb - they're amazing. I think you'd miss it if you sold it.
The Verso is great at getting on with job in hand just like mine, but they are soul destroying. I like to think that you have a bit of character, an appreciation of the finer things in life. You're a Volvo man, come hell or high water :)
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>> Not sure how you work that out, just because he mentioned that one point, it
>> doesn't logically follow he has money issues.
I didn't say he did. I said that money is a part of the decision-making process, not that he couldn't afford the new car. RTFQ.
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>> >> Not sure how you work that out, just because he mentioned that one point,
>> it
>> >> doesn't logically follow he has money issues.
>>
>>
>> I didn't say he did. I said that money is a part of the decision-making
>> process, not that he couldn't afford the new car. RTFQ.
>>
No but you meant it, that it was an issue rather than just a point to mention.
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Sell both cars, buy 2 Perodua Kenari's, and invest savings in €urobonds.
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It's a fair question, MM. Clearly a purely Head calculation like yours would put the money in the bank and plug on with what we have until something compelled us to change. The Heart element here is that we feel our family travel lacks what I've previously described here as 'sense of occasion', so we'd like something that does that the way the S60 does, but with more room and less of the back-of-the-mind concern about what might happen to an old car on a long trip.
And as well as paying for the new car, we'll have to keep up the one that we keep from the present pair, so yes, money comes into the reckoning but it's the combined costs of new and existing cars that we need to consider, not one against the other.
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If it were me, I'd ditch the Toyota and keep the S60 as it'll see double the mileage you currently have and it does everything you want as a one man commuter.
Replacement? I'd wait and take a long hard look at the V60 Hybrid which is coming with the D5 engine.
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Sell the Verso through BCA Sure-Sell.
Its Valentines Day soon and my better half would love a nice convertible to replace something as innocuous as that. Use a professional auction buyer to grab you a bargain whilst the convertible market is seasonally depressed.
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>> Sell the Verso through BCA Sure-Sell.
The advantage of that being?
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>> Replacement? I'd wait and take a long hard look at the V60 Hybrid which is
>> coming with the D5 engine.
>>
Or maybe just go for a standard D5 model. The D6 (which the Hybrid will be known by) has in excess of £13k premium over the top of the range D5. £42k + £5k Government grant is a lot of money for a family car.
You could save a few pounds in road tax 49g/km and 32 miles electric only for town driving but £47k is a big chunk to sink into a car. I wonder what the leasing rates will be ?
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 3 Feb 12 at 07:15
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WdB - glad the job is going well. You want a new car and you can afford it: the 'change neither' argument is financially logical but won't satisfy you, so go with the 'you only live once' brigade!
In your position I think I'd:
- keep the S60 until something expensive goes wrong: with luck that won't be too soon as you say, and it's doing the job you need it to in style and comfort. It's worth a lot more to you than it would be in the market. And you get to keep driving it!
- flog the Verso and get a petrol estate. Depending on the optimum size and cost, both Skoda (Octavia and Superb) and Volvo (V60 and V70) give you a choice of size. The 1.8 TSI petrol engine in either Skoda will do a great job for you: Volvo is a bit more difficult as the 1.6 sounds too weedy and the 2.0 T5 rather expensive. But anyway you avoid the potential DPF problems if Mrs B's journeys are usually short.
Humph may be along to wonder whether you've considered a Mondeo or whatever age of German taxi you could get within budget. Maybe you've already crossed those off. I have to confess to not having tried an Insignia, so I won't condemn it out of hand -but road tests suggest it's not a barrel of laughs to drive.
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Thank you for the observations and suggestions so far. A few comments in reply.
- There will be no convertible or 'weekend car'. As Corax pointed out, long-limbed ungulates and frivolous motors don't go together, and in any case it's not my style. I do like nicely made things, but they have to be made first to do a job and a convertible fails that test. Fulfil your own wishes, don't ask me. }:---D
- Stu's observation that cars are best not noticed - well, I don't agree entirely. We notice the irritations, but we notice the 'surprise and delight' features too. Our cars have both, but not in equal measure.
- The Volvo V60 is too small for us, and sells for as much as a V70 anyway. And I can't see us buying a petrol Volvo unless it's absurdly cheap - would we ever sell it on?
- The Mondeo is up to par on space but falls down on its cheesy interior and its (sorry - closet car snobbery) ubiquity. Never tried the Insignia but it's (a) a Vauxhall, and (b) would have to come from and be serviced by a Vauxhall dealer. No thanks.
- Enough about buying; this is about selling.
- Come-clean time. My secret wish is to sell the Verso (well observed, Zero!) and persuade Mrs B that she can manage the S60 when necessary. If that means we end up with a Superb rather than a V70, I'll still have a Volvo for work more days than not.
Anyway, still plenty to do. Keeping both is still an option, of course.
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You won't miss the Verso. You will miss the Volvo.
Simples.
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>> You won't miss the Verso. You will miss the Volvo.
And you would love the right snorting monster.
I quite agree about convertibles which are a bit girly as a rule. But there are some barchetta or roadster type cars that are a bit of all right. A nice little Porsche 356 Speedster for example. Or a groovy 1940s Packard Clipper convertible say... both might be a bit dear though.
Your problem is quite enviable from where I sit. I don't mind admitting it being one of nature's 'losers' apparently.
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Car for sale - but which one? - Westpig
