I'm insured with Elephant. I was hoping to upgrade my insurance to allow a named driver to use it for a business trip with their insurer.
www.elephant.co.uk/faq/buying/use.php
It doesn't seem to be possible which is frustrating.
Anybody know an insurance company that does allow it?
Thanks.
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>> I'm insured with Elephant. I was hoping to upgrade my insurance to allow a named
>> driver to use it for a business trip with their insurer.
Could you clarify what you mean? Why have you put "with their insurer"?
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Sorry, esc, I meant "business trip for their employer."
insuredaily.co.uk do not allow anything other than commuting
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There are several companies who offer short term car insurance, such as www.dayinsure.com/
I have no experience of them, it was the first result of a search for "short term car insurance". May be of use to the OP.
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You need class2 business use which will allow business use by named driver (but may be restricted to same business as Insured).
Will cost you though. Need to talk to a broker
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Business use implies the named driver is the main driver and hence fronting.
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>> Anybody know an insurance company that does allow it?
>>
Liverpool Victoria. I'm the RK and policyholder of my wife's car. She is shown as the main driver and it's noted on the Certificate that both of us can use the car for business use.
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Don't know about business use but tempcover.com will cover some cars that other short term insurance providers will not.
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Mapmaker - the link you give for elephant states:
"Business class 2: Social domestic and pleasure purposes and use by the policyholder or any other driver covered by the policy for travel between home and permanent place of business. Plus use by the policyholder and named drivers in connection with their business. This does not cover use for selling or commercial travel.
Business class 3: Social, domestic, and pleasure purposes and use by the policyholder or any other driver covered by the policy for travel between home and permanent place of business. Plus use by the policyholder in connection with his or her business or profession and also by other drivers covered by the policy on the business of the policyholder and on the business of the employer of the policyholder, which includes use for selling or commercial travelling."
So when you say "It doesn't seem to be possible which is frustrating",
1. are you saying that class 2 is no good for your named driver?
2. and/or are you wishing to get a class 3 policy which restricts named driver to using it for "on the business of the employer of the policyholder, which includes use for selling or commercial travelling" ?
Last edited by: John H on Tue 24 Jan 12 at 10:04
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I've had class 2 for years with Elephant then Admiral Multi Car (appreciate they're linked companies). Mrs B is named driver on my policy including use in connection with her profession as a teacher.
Doesn't often happen but at least once she's been using mine when it's been an off site training day.
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John H I am saying that neither of Elephant's class 2 nor 3 achieves what I want:
Business class 3: Social, domestic, and pleasure purposes and use by the policyholder or any other driver covered by the policy for travel between home and permanent place of business. Plus use by the policyholder in connection with his or her business or profession and also by other drivers covered by the policy on the business of the policyholder and on the business of the employer of the policyholder, which includes use for selling or commercial travelling.
Only Class 3 makes any reference to the business of a third party, i.e. that of an employer, and it only allows it for the business of the policyholder's employer.
Anyway, after a couple of hours on the phone with Elephant, having spoken to monkeys, supervisors and senior supervisors, including a very nice girl called Kate in their Canadian call centre, they changed their mind and confirmed that class 2 would definitely cover a named driver when driving on the business of his employer. It's certainly not what the policy wording says. I shall take it up with them in writing in due course.
This isn't fronting, BTW, it's a one-off use of my car by a named driver going to somewhere for the purpose of his employer. I must say I'd never heard of these various classes of business use before, I've only ever seen a check box for (1) social (2) commuting (3) business.
Of the various short-term insurance companies, only Aviva appeared to offer full business cover. And they wanted £120 for two days; the other companies seemed to be about £50 for two days.
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 24 Jan 12 at 10:56
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>> Anyway, after a couple of hours on the phone with Elephant, having spoken to monkeys,
>> supervisors and senior supervisors, including a very nice girl called Kate in their Canadian call
>> centre, they changed their mind and confirmed that class 2 would definitely cover a named
>> driver when driving on the business of his employer. It's certainly not what the policy
>> wording says. I shall take it up with them in writing in due course.
>>
Well, doesn't it say exactly that in the link you posted in your OP?
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>>Well, doesn't it say exactly that in the link you posted in your OP?
Have you read anything I have posted above? Seems no point in answering you beyond a "no". If you want to know why, read previous posts.
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>> >>Well, doesn't it say exactly that in the link you posted in your OP?
>>
>> Have you read anything I have posted above? Seems no point in answering you beyond
>> a "no". If you want to know why, read previous posts.
>>
F i g h t!
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It's really good to see mapmaker and L'es back on here, I've missed you both and can't wait for the day you both disagree with each other:)
Pat
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The link in the original post says:
Business class 2: Social domestic and pleasure purposes and use by the policyholder or any other driver covered by the policy for travel between home and permanent place of business. Plus use by the policyholder and named drivers in connection with their business. This does not cover use for selling or commercial travel.
Isn't this what you're trying to achieve?
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>> Plus use by the policyholder and named drivers in connection with their business.
>> Isn't this what you're trying to achieve?
No. Employed people don't have a "their own" business. They have a "their employer's" business.
Head. Brick. Wall. The link John H has posted to Bill Payer's previous post is very explicit on this point, but it's not the wording of Elephant's policy.
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Well all I can say is the quote in that link that says: They do NOT have cover if they are driving for the business of a different employer. is not my experience. My partner and I have been insured on each others cars for business use for over 15 years - in some cases they asked for employers name/type of business, and in some cases not, but were happy to provide cover in all cases.
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>> Well all I can say is the quote in that link that says: They do
>> NOT have cover if they are driving for the business of a different employer. is
>> not my experience.
Presumably you aren't insured through quotea.co.uk...
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Business use: Class 2
There are a number of variations of Class 2 depending on the insurance provider. The policy will usually cover both the policyholder and a named driver for the business use, although some insurers may stipulate that the two must work in the same occupation. Class 2 will still exclude commercial use and selling.
Read more: www.confused.com/car-insurance/articles/what-are-the-car-insurance-classes-of-use#ixzz1kODTvadT
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In fact, in 2006 my partner even had an accident in my car while on his employers business - insurer paid out without a question. Admiral at the time, IIRC.
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It's not the Elephant policy on account of the making reference to spouses. Billpayer's post is very explicit and google tells me it is the wording of a (broker?) called quotea.co.uk.
And makes me wonder whether Elephant were telling me the right information. I wish you hadn't posted that...
The interesting thing is that I don't think I can drive any third party to their place of work, and I'm certain I cannot drive them to a temporary workplace. As with many things in life, nobody understands things.
I'm sure I've posted before about a commercial vehicle policy that was restricted to over 21s only, but the broker had never bothered to tell the customer - indeed the under 21s were named drivers on the policy. Eventually following an accident, a claim went in, it turned out it was uninsured, but somebody other than the customer paid and the excess was never asked for...
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 24 Jan 12 at 15:18
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I wonder whether people are reading too much into what is a fairly poorly drafted phrase?
After all, in response to your comment that No. Employed people don't have a "their own" business. They have a "their employer's" business. , surely a definition of 'business' is the exchange of goods or services for one another or for money. As an individual I'm exchanging my skills/knowledge/experience in for a salary - that, arguably, is my business. Since business, in the wording as drafted, has no definition, then I think I'm on safe ground. If they chose to define Business as something else then they should, but it's not even drafted as Business, merely business :-)
With reference to "I don't think I can drive any third party to their place of work, and I'm certain I cannot drive them to a temporary workplace", my policy explicitly prohbits use for hire/reward, but goes on to exclude any payments for car sharing (which is arguably what you're doing). So it's a right muddle ;-)
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I am basing it entirely on Elephant's description of Class 3.
Plus use by the policyholder in connection with his or her business or profession and also by other drivers covered by the policy on the business of the policyholder and on the business of the employer of the policyholder
If the business of the employer of the policyholder were the business of the policyholder then it wouldn't have to be specifically mentioned.
I didn't mean for hire/reward; it means I cannot drive my brother to his place of work.
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I suspect the wording on the Elephant website is slackly drafted and that under Class 2 'Plus use by the policyholder and named drivers in connection with their business' might be clearer as:
Plus use by the policyholder and named drivers in connection with their respective business or profession.
That's the cover I requested/have and I think my cert and policy schedule use more precise wording than the website.
Will check tonight.
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 24 Jan 12 at 15:54
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>>respective business or profession.
Most people don't have a profession. They have an employment.
The only thing that makes sense is for "business of the employer" to be referring to a "travelling salesman" actually selling items out of the vehicle.
The salesperson told me that Class 3 is a very extreme level of insurance that Elephant don't really like providing. I guess it covers people selling at car boot sales etc.
(Class 2, by the way, cost me an extra £17.50 for the remaining six-ish months of the year.)
Last edited by: Mapmaker on Tue 24 Jan 12 at 16:01
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>> Most people don't have a profession. They have an employment.
I don't think profession needs to be interpreted narrowly as in 'the learned professions' (law, theology medicine). It means occupation, business, career, calling or even, heaven forfend, 'trade'.
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How about "retired", or should that be "resting"?
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I think that re-writing it to say "Social domestic and pleasure purposes and use by the policyholder or any other driver covered by the policy for travel between home and permanent place of rest" might be a bit off-putting, though it would cover undertakers quite well ;-)
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Insurance for named driver for their work - L'escargot
