I've no doubt that something similar to this has been aired a time or two before but I'll plough on any way. Today I was in a slightly unusual traffic situation. I was on a two lane motorway with reasonably heavy traffic on the inside lane all doing about 60-65 mph but hardly anything on the outside lane where I was travelling on cruise control at between 70 and 75 mph on my speedo ( a true speed of 70). A large car (German as it happens) loomed up behind and flashed continuously for a mile or more before exiting the motorway with a two fingered farewell sign to me.
Should I have given way?
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If you had room to move into the inner lane, then yes.
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"If you had room to move into the inner lane, then yes."
If you have room to move over, you are going too fast, slow down, match the speed of the vehicle on your inside and stay in formation. Don't be intimidated into giving way.
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"Should I have given way?"
You should have severely brake-tested him, made as if you were going to let him by then swing out and block him again while standing on the brakes. Repeat as often as you feel like/dare. Block him for a couple of miles by travelling at the same speed as the car on the inside. Finally let him pass and blow a big kiss.
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...Should I have given way...
That's a toughie.
There's no reason why you should bury yourself in the inside lane just to let a poorly-driven mobile balance of payments deficit pass.
On t'other hand, you say the outside lane was fairly free of traffic, so you had the option of pulling in and then pulling out again.
And the obvious point is an impatient driver is a dangerous driver, so best to have him in front of you, however you achieve it.
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>> On t'other hand you say the outside lane was fairly free of traffic so you
>> had the option of pulling in and then pulling out again.
The OP stated it was a 2 lane stretch, so the OP was in the outside lane....to pull into the inside lane may have been difficult/dangerous.
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...to pull into the inside lane may have been difficult/dangerous...
True, true, but at least he could get back out again and carry on as he was.
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st
That was my dilemma. I knew that I was at the legal speed limit but the traffic pattern was such that pulling in would have inconvenienced at least a few drivers on the inside lane just to accommodate someone who wanted to get on with it. On the other hand, of course, the impatient driver might have been on an emergency trip so, in that case, I am culpable. On that basis all bullying drivers should be let through.
I suppose that in the long term it is better to let them past and get on with life in our own perfect way!
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Much talk about the actual speed you were doing, being legal etc.
Sure there was no element of unpaid policeman at work?
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Lane 1 2 and 3 are not Slow Medium or Fast lanes. They are not each governed by minimum speed limits. Lanes 2 and 3 are termed 'Overtaking' lanes. Therefore you should be striving to return to the left at every opportunity.
Now bullying other motorists is also irresponsible and exceeding the speed limit is open for debate - you pays your money you takes your choice.
What is irksome is darting out of the way to inflate someones ego as they bully themselves past you. But by careful use of the mirrors and a bit of planning you can see them coming. A few in and out indicates you are not a lane hog and timed to perfection with a good run of nearside traffic you can sit there with a clear conscience and cause their ego's some pain. Job done!
The Germans with no limits on their autobahns are more lane disciplined particularly as a lot of them only have 2 lanes. The Brits really seem to have a problem and will sit 'mimsered' in a lane for mile after mile.
Last edited by: Fullchat on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 21:11
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>> "Should I have given way?"
>>
>> You should have severely brake-tested him made as if you were going to let him
>> by then swing out and block him again while standing on the brakes. Repeat as
>> often as you feel like/dare. Block him for a couple of miles by travelling at
>> the same speed as the car on the inside. Finally let him pass and blow
>> a big kiss.
>>
I hope the next time you try that it's an unmarked police car.
Let him past and hope he has his accident way in front of you.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 21:10
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"I hope the next time you try that it's an unmarked police car."
You approve of aggressive BMW drivers then? Or is that the way you drive?
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I don't approve of any aggressive drivers but it's not my, or your job to police the roads. When it comes to road rage there is always a much bigger badder dave.
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"don't approve of any aggressive drivers but it's not my, or your job to police the roads."
I agree i have no interest in policing the roads, could give a crap quite frankly. But what would you do if the same guy came up behind you in the queue a Tescos, shoved you in the back and told you to "hop it"?
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If someone is in the 10 items only lane and they have 11 I tell them to hop it.
and yes
I do count the contents of thier basket.
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>> If someone is in the 10 items only lane and they have 11 I tell
>> them to hop it.
>>
>> and yes
>>
>> I do count the contents of thier basket.
Be honest Zero, you did it once and that was to a blind girl guide! :)
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>> Be honest Zero you did it once and that was to a blind girl guide!
>> :)
Rubbish. When she was in the line, I used buiscuits to tempt her guide dog to another queue
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>> I agree i have no interest in policing the roads could give a crap quite
>> frankly. But what would you do if the same guy came up behind you in
>> the queue a Tescos shoved you in the back and told you to "hop it"?
On the motorway, I would pull over if I could do so safely and if it wasn't going to slow me down (i.e. if I could get in and then get out again without having to slow for traffic ahead).
If I had to slow down and/or get stuck behind traffic just to help somebody else get to their destination faster I would be less inclined (perhaps different if there was a queue of cars behind me, and if my progress was only going to be minimally impacted).
Not quite the same as in the supermarket queue, because then letting somebody go in front of you is obviously trading their convenience for yours (I reserve that for OAPs, pregnant women and maybe the occasional pleasant looking person who is only carrying an item or two).
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>>I reserve that for OAPs pregnant women and maybe the occasional pleasant looking person who is only carrying an item or two).>>
>>
Excellent! I qualify for two of them, and I am definitely not pregnant!
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 21:41
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SS, I'm not talking about letting someone go in front of you, I'm talking about someone knocking you out of the way.
Anyway it's not important. I'm just fascinated by Old Navy's attitude. He's quite happy for old money bags in the BM to continue bullying his way down the motorway, intimidating all before him but when the small guy in the old Peugeot who actually has a pair, turns round and sticks up for himself - he hopes the rozzers will nab him.
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Listen BBD. If I want to make progress at an illegal speed, to be held up by some bumbler doing 70.5mph for 5 miles "because thats the speed limit" I am gonna get a little impatient.
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Zero, I believe that everyone has the right to break the law, but you'd better give me 30 seconds to let me get out of you way before you start flashing...!
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>> Zero I believe that everyone has the right to break the law but you'd better
>> give me 30 seconds to let me get out of you way before you start
>> flashing...!
for you dave, you have 1 minutes grace.
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" "because thats the speed limit" I am gonna get a little impatient."
Why? So its alright for the BMW to exceed the limit quite substantially forcing everyone from the lane to the inside.
That means the BM is breaking the law doesn't it? Why should they get away with this kind of bullying. Yes overtake and pass back to the inside lane. But you can bet the BM driver wont. He'll just cruise along the outside lane from point A to B as if it were his personal lane. And heaven help anyone that gets in his way. That attitude is wrong. If you expect me to drive at or just above the limit and courteously pull over after overtaking and reduce my speed, I expect the likes of this moron do to the same. Just because he drives an expensive performance car don't give him the right to flout the rules.
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> don't give him the right to flout the rules.
you - or me - dont have the right or power to enforce them either.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 22:05
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Life is too short to get wound up by prats in big flash cars, I let them go and annoy someone else.
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Cool. So the answer is, you have a few seconds to get your dithery, mimsing jalopy out of the way and make way for the BM. But if he flashes the second he's on your tail, you can brake-test him?
I'm happy with that.
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>> But if he flashes the second he's on your tail you can brake-test him?
Don't brake test him, because it occurs to me that a lot of people who drive too fast in a straight line do so because they are rubbish at any other driving.
I have done extensive, scientifically robust research in this area.
There is a main road near me that has lots of straight bits and then quite a few windey bits, twisty little entrances and exits to mini roundabouts etc.
Well, I'll be going along the straight bits at about a speedo 32-33 (sat nav 30) and often have somebody tailgating me (no room to let them pass). Then, when we get to anything that is not straight, they'll drop back by a hundred metres as they try to cope with a slight deviation in the road, then put their foot down to catch me up, tailgate me for another fifty metres, until we get to another twisty bit...rinse and repeat
Now, maybe I am recklessly fast on the twisty bits, but I think it is more the case that they struggle with anything that is not straight and have to make up the lost time with their highly impressive ability to put their foot slightly nearer the floor than mine.
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 22:42
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>> Well I'll be going along the straight bits at about a speedo 32-33 (sat nav
>> 30) >> Now maybe I am recklessly fast on the twisty bits
Possibly they are leaving room because your cornering is erratic, probably because your eyes are locked on your speedo and satnav? ;)
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>> Possibly they are leaving room because your cornering is erratic probably because your eyes are
>> locked on your speedo and satnav? ;)
You could be right, because quite aside from the speedo and sat nav, there are so many things to keep my eye on.
I try to check the fuel gauge and engine temperature at regular interval during the journey, plus keep one eye on the warning lights, just in case one comes on. I can't get the air con just right, no matter how much I fiddle with it, and I spend a lot of time trying to get my phone to connect to the bluetooth. The little time that I do have to look at the road is mainly spent watching out for tailgaters or looking to see if there are any new houses up for sale...
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 23:18
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"I have done extensive, scientifically robust research in this area."
Your qualifications are....? and do you work at the TRL?
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>> "I have done extensive scientifically robust research in this area."
>>
>> Your qualifications are....? and do you work at the TRL?
I think you need to up the gain on your self-deprecating-humour detector Captain. I have conducted similar carefuly designed experiments with the same results as Steelspark.
If you are behind them, they hold you up on the bendy bits, flashing the brake lights at every hint of a curve, then when you might zip past on a straight bit they're off like a two bob rocket.
Last edited by: Manatee on Mon 19 Apr 10 at 19:57
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Unmarked police cars still have blueys and sirens, to use as necessary, and only resort to bullying tactics if you are ignoring them (the blueys and sirens that is).
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BBD if you were a half decent driver you would be aware of his approach long before he was close behind you and would have been in the correct lane. Do you know what dicipline, (motorway or any ) is?
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 18 Apr 10 at 22:03
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Who says I'm a half decent driver? I only post here because i'm stalking Zero.
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>> Who says I'm a half decent driver? I only post here because i'm stalking Zero.
>>
thats it - youve had your minute, now get out of the way
flash flash airhorn airhorn
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Are you sure you are not being stalked?
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Where I live, half decent drivers arrive half an hour later.
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>> Where I live half decent drivers arrive half an hour later.
>>
The joy of being retired, no arrival time, never late. Except when catching a plane to somewhere hot and sunny. (not relevant at the moment).
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My rule of thumb is to try at least to drive in such a way that the other road users would have trouble remembering having seen me. In other words, not so slowly as to impede anyone, not so fast as to draw unwanted attention or so close as to unnerve anyone.
This philosophy does not of course mitigate for idiots but it keeps the blood pressure stable most of the time.
In the case of the OP's tailgater, I suppose I'd have moved over and let him go. I'd find it quite hard to care enough about him to do much more than that.
Let him go and be a prat somewhere else would be my only fleeting thought.
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I had a very pleasant drive up a motorway the other day, cruising at (about) the legal maximum, moving from lane to lane when I could move left for ten seconds or so, with a couple of indicator flashes at each lane change. A noticed a white-van-man was more or less keeping pace with me. I was encouraged to note he gave me a flash or two of his headlights whenever I looked to pull out into an outer lane that he'd premeditated before me. He eventually passed me and I was able to reciprocate.
I like to think we both had a much more pleasant day because of the mutual co-operation.
It certainly cheered my day.
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its nice to have an indicator stalk that can give a one second flash rather than the on off can bus im in control stalks of modern grot boxes
i find anyway
maybe im old fashioned
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>> its nice to have an indicator stalk that can give a one second flash rather
>> than the on off can bus im in control stalks of modern grot boxes
>> i find anyway
>> maybe im old fashioned
your not old fashioned at all!
too many 'improvements' on today's cars make them harder (more dangerous??) to operate as the driver wants/needs
Id rather operate my vehicle in a safe way, than need the airbags!
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>> its nice to have an indicator stalk that can give a one second flash rather
>> than the on off can bus im in control stalks of modern grot boxes
>> i find anyway
>> maybe im old fashioned
the three overtaking flashes of the VW system works well.
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>> In the case of the OP's tailgater,
I'd have shrugged, thought "**** 'em", and carried on as I was until it was safe to move over from lane 2 to lane 1. Years of experience of staying out for 2 or 3 miles at a time in my lorry have given me impenetrably thick skin to these kinds of drivers. It's not unofficial speed limit policing, just a refusal to succumb to bullying.
Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Mon 19 Apr 10 at 02:03
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Does this mean that car drivers actually practice those 'elephant overtakes' they hate so much?
It would appear so, and it seems to be condoned by many if it involves cars and not lorries.
A good driver would have been watching his rear view mirror, realise the BMW was going faster and moved over and then back out again.
There is so much reference to BMW, and bullying, and high powered etc etc in this thread that my summary of what's happened is that the OP ( as is often the case) can't resist the chance to 'get his own back' on someone faster/braver/less responsible than him.
Sour grapes, and the result is an example of the attitude we see so often on the road today.
Pat
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Just to clarify things. The tailgater was not driving a BMW.
Thanks for the interesting (and varied) responses. In retrospect I'm glad that I didn't succumb to his bullying tactics. He's probably on his German car's website telling his mates that all drivers of Japanese cars should be banned from the roads between the hours of 6.00am and midnight!
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>> The tailgater was not driving a BMW.
>>
>> >>
You didn't say he was a tailgater, you (and other posters) have added that later.
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If a moron wants to overtake me on a m'way, I usually let him pass (as long as it is safe to do so).
As per highway code, unless you are overtaking, you should be on lane 1.
In fact, the situation OP faced, is quite common on 2-lane m'ways/dual carriageways. Yes, it is often a pain to shuffle between lane 1 & 2 continuously. In lane 1, you'll encounter lorries frequently and if you're on lane 2, you'll find other cars are often wanting to overtake you.
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>>
>>
>> As per highway code unless you are overtaking you should be on lane 1.
>>
>>
>>
But the OP was overtaking - that was why he was in Lane 2.
Is there a rule saying someone who is overtaking has to give up and yield to a faster overtaker?
If I have followed a tractor for a mile waiting for a safe overtaking place, do I have to pull back in because an impatient light-flasher wants to barge past first?
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CP
"You didn't say he was a tailgater, you (and other posters) have added that later"
No, I didn't say he was a tailgater but cars that follow you with their headlights flashing tend not to do so from a safe distance. For what it's worth, yes he was a tailgater but that doesn't alter the question that I posed in the OP.
Your analogy with the tractor is a good one and would have put you in much the same position that I was in yesterday - to concede or not. Some would and some wouldn't.
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No the tractor is not a good analogy. An overtake of a slow moving vehicle on an A or B road is nothing like travelling in motorway lanes where speed differentials can be minimal and you can be in the outside land for many miles if conditions dictate.
Like Humph, Bathtub and others I would have happliy adjusted my speed for a few seconds to slip into the inside lane and let the guy get on with his day.
I rarely use cruise control as it isn't condusive to good traffic flow manners in anything but the very lightest traffic.... uses too much fuel too.
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I'd echo Humph's comments - I too always try to remain 'invisible' to other road users (not literally, of course!). It's not that difficult with good observation/anticipation - and it helps to leave one's ego at home.
All this talk of 'idiots' or 'morons' suggests the authors think themselves 'superior' or otherwise infallible - which is rarely the case...
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>> Is there a rule saying someone who is overtaking has to give up and yield
>> to a faster overtaker?
>> If I have followed a tractor for a mile waiting for a safe overtaking place
>> do I have to pull back in because an impatient light-flasher wants to barge past
>> first?
you appear to be saying its ok to pull out in front of a faster moving driver?
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>>
>>
>> you appear to be saying its ok to pull out in front of a faster
>> moving driver?
>>
Some aggressive drivers deliberately accelerate or drive up close at high speed to try to intimidate slower-moving drivers who have already commenced legitimate overtaking.
Thus the OP who was legitimately overtaking a line of slower moving vehicles, but was intimidated by someone who wanted to overtake faster.
Or my example of pulling out to overtake a tractor and being intimidated by someone further back down the line who deliberately accelerates to try to forestall your overtake and force himself in instead.
Or recently, I was half-way onto a roundabout (turning right) when a motorcyclist at high speed did 3/4 of a circuit in order to have the pleasure of reaching me in time to hoot and be abusive.
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We live in a major arable area so there are tractors all day long on my routes. I have to say I end up overtaking folks who are right up the backside of tractors every day.
This only happens because they are too close so can't see, in the wrong gear or indecisive. My car is no ball of fire so if I've got round the tractor first from a couple of cars back then it's because the others are missing opportunities.
I do keep the speed differential down and a thumb is resting on the horn just in case. Also even once I've crossed the white line I still give the cars in front every opportunity to come out in front of me at the last safe moment should they wish.
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Probably no known cure for the behaviour of these aggressive idiot drivers. I wouldn't let their antics lower the standard of my driving or rattle me - I'd just get out of their way and let them get on with it. What's the point of rising to the bait - they're usually looking for a reaction so that they can escalate the situation. I daresay they are there at closing time spoiling for a fight with anyone who they don't like the look of. I'd rather be out of their way than rear-ended by them.
The way I look at it is that if you're doing a motorway journey of any length you are reasonably likely to be held up somewhere along the line by a jam caused by volume of traffic or a smash. Then you and (usually) he will probably be stuck in the same line of traffic going absolutely nowhere.
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When someone is going faster than you are, the courteous and rational thing to do is to give way to them when you can.
The speed limit, the behaviour of the following vehicle - flashing, tailgating, 'looming up behind', any of the things rapid drivers are accused of by mimsers, any of the things genuinely boorish drivers do - none of these things have anything to do with the case. We are talking about driving, and the rest is just blah.
I don't understand the OP's contention that he would have 'inconvenienced' someone in lane 1 by giving way.
To stay in the outside lane when someone wants to pass is quite simply despicable. In some cases it is asking for trouble too. I have even seen people on HJ asserting that they would get in the way of the fuzz or fire brigade rather than 'risk' their virginal little licences.
Can't stand these toerags. God knows they are everywhere too. Getting in my way. HJ recommends undertaking the twerps, and I have to say that although it doesn't come naturally I have lately started to do it.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 19 Apr 10 at 14:11
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AC, I had one of these twerps baulking me on the M4 in South Wales on Saturday evening. A gold coloured VW Jetta (56 plate, not the old pre-Bora sort) for the record. He had been baulking the car in front of me, who went up his inside eventually.
He simply wouldn't move left despite two empty lanes to the left, and the hint from the chap who had just undertaken him. So I went to the inside lane, two lanes inside him, and he sped up immediately to stop me going past him as soon as he spotted me!
Absolute blaggard. I was not prepared to break an indicated 90 to get past him, and once I'd given up he dropped back to 65. Evidently the chap undertaking him had woken him up to the vile reality that people may wish to go faster than him, and he decided that none (more) shall pass. A massive tailback ensued, but happily I turned off into Caerdydd after a couple more miles.
Should have gunned it to 100 I suppose, see if he had the nerve to go with me. But thoughts of my freshly re-virgined licence (happily newly bereft of the previous 6 points) and an uncomfortable hardshoulder conversation with Hoccifer Dai Llewellyn Wynn Jones of Heddlu De Cymru in my plummy Berkshire tones soon caused me to lose my bottle.
Last edited by: Alanović on Mon 19 Apr 10 at 14:37
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I once brake-tested a BMW driver in a very similar situation. Ordinarily I'd have pulled in as soon as practicable but I was already doing 80 and he approached me at well over 100, before sitting on my bumper and flashing his lights.
I was already in a bad mood and trod on the brakes a little harder than I should have done. Long story short, BMWs don't appear to be very stable under heavy braking as I saw to my horror in the rear view mirror as he nearly fishtailed into the central reservation.
However, if I need to pull out and see in the mirror someone travelling vastly in excess of the speed limit (ie, over 100) and I judge that they can stop in time, I'll pull out without a second thought. Doesn't bother me that they might have to stamp on the anchors and complete 30 seconds on their journey at a semi-legal speed.
Last edited by: Alfa Floor on Mon 19 Apr 10 at 16:47
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>> Doesn't bother me that they might have to stamp on the anchors and complete 30 seconds on their journey at a semi-legal speed.
Don't agree with you there. Why take risks with an unknown quantity? I hate people who pull out and baulk me. I never, ever do it to anyone except accidentally.
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>> However if I need to pull out and see in the mirror someone travelling vastly
>> in excess of the speed limit (ie over 100) and I judge that they can
>> stop in time I'll pull out without a second thought. Doesn't bother me that they
>> might have to stamp on the anchors and complete 30 seconds on their journey at
>> a semi-legal speed.
>>
Driving in excess of 100mph on the average British motorway cannot usually be justified...but neither can someone deliberately pulling out in front of someone doing that.
The second one is more dangerous than the first..and I can't believe you've posted that you would consider doing so.
How would you know that the driver wasn't rushing his wife/child to hospital...or was an unmarked police surveillance vehicle..or a doctor trying to get to hospital for an emergency op...or was a moron, but had two innocent kids in the car...or whatever else
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Remind me never to drive within 100 miles on some of the people above. If they really drive as they describe, they are worse than the people they criticise for bad driving.
Bad drivers apparently can see everyone's faults but their own.#
If some idiot comes up behind me at speed, I make way for him/her if I can. Trying to create accidents is the occupation of those with a Darwin complex:-)
# or their wives/partners are too scared to tell them!
Last edited by: madf on Mon 19 Apr 10 at 18:17
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Er, just to clarify. I'm not talking about looking in the mirror and swerving into the path of someone going quickly.
However, if I'm trapped in lane one or two with the indicator flashing and a gap sufficiently big opens up, I'll take it. If the car at the back of the gap is travelling at normal speeds, then I'll be able to accelerate in time and their progress won't be impacted.
If they're bombing it, then they're almost certainly going to find themselves leaping for the brake pedal because they're driving too fast. Or are you suggesting that the fastest car on the roads has the undisputed right of way?
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>> If they're bombing it then they're almost certainly going to find themselves leaping for the brake pedal because they're driving too fast. Or are you suggesting that the fastest car on the roads has the undisputed right of way?
>>
That's not good. If you're pulling out into lane 3 knowing someone else is going to have to heavily brake, then you're putting yourself and the other driver in danger.
It is still a common practice for cars to travel at an indicated 90mph on public m/ways (probably 87mph in practice). Enough people do it, to make it a relatively common practice. I think it is most unwise to pull out on anyone, at any time, if they're travelling noticeably faster than you, regardless of the legality of their actions... and it would put you into the Driving Without Due Care territory.
If you're in lane 2 and stuff is coming past you noticeably quicker, you just have to wait for a safe gap and choose a moment when you don't affect anyone else. It's not the question of 'undisputed right of way' for a fast driver, it's one car in lane 3 travelling at a given speed, whatever it is...has the right of way over people in the more nearside lane who wish to pull in to that lane.
Thinking 'Sod it here I come, you shouldn't be driving that fast', is just an accident waiting to happen.
Further to the above, when driving on mostly two laned French Autoroutes, it is quite common for the slower car to wait for the faster car to drive past, before the slower car overtakes. In good old Blighty it's the opposite, the slower car usually 'books early' and grabs the space often quicker than they need it, just to make sure they get there 'first', despite the fact the faster car will then eventually overtake. Can't quite work out why, other than selfishness.
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>> In good old Blighty it's the opposite the slower car usually
>> 'books early' and grabs the space often quicker than they need it just to make
>> sure they get there 'first' despite the fact the faster car will then eventually overtake.
>> Can't quite work out why other than selfishness.
Just the same as on the Tube. I lose count of the number of people who fight their way to be at the doors first, then turn out to only be able to walk at half the pace of the people they got in front of.
Napoleon Complex I guess, which explains why they can only walk at half the pace of everybody else.
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>> If they're bombing it then they're almost certainly going to find themselves leaping for the
>> brake pedal because they're driving too fast.
I think the point is that by doing that you are basically pulling in front of somebody and causing them to brake, thereby risking an accident.
They may be in the wrong by travelling so fast, but there wouldn't have been the accident if you didn't cause them to brake.
>> Or are you suggesting that the fastest car on the roads has the undisputed right of way?
Well, the person who is prepared to take the greatest risk probably does have the undisputed right of way. Not saying that is right, just that it is the facts.
If you are prepared to take the risk and pull out, then maybe you can claim the right of way for yourself. Not a risk I would be prepared to take, just to slow down some guy that I will never meet.
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>> I once brake-tested a BMW driver in a very similar situation. Ordinarily I'd have pulled
>> in as soon as practicable but I was already doing 80 and he approached me
>> at well over 100 before sitting on my bumper and flashing his lights.
>>
>> I was already in a bad mood and trod on the brakes a little harder
>> than I should have done. Long story short BMWs don't appear to be very stable
>> under heavy braking as I saw to my horror in the rear view mirror as
>> he nearly fishtailed into the central reservation.
>>
>> However if I need to pull out and see in the mirror someone travelling vastly
>> in excess of the speed limit (ie over 100) and I judge that they can
>> stop in time I'll pull out without a second thought. Doesn't bother me that they
>> might have to stamp on the anchors and complete 30 seconds on their journey at
>> a semi-legal speed.
>>
>>
You're probably making up this story - I've no idea why people do that - surely nobody's that stupid as to brake hard when someone is "sittting on your bumper" when doing "over 80"
If it is true - then it's one of the most stupid and dangerous acts imaginable.
As regards the OP scousehonda - he said he had set his cruise at between 70 and 75 and that's not the action of someone intending to move into lane 1 as soon as he had passed slower moving vehicles
He is clearly one of these unpaid policemen who "sits" at 70 in the outside lane getting all indignant when others wish to drive faster, and why the reference to "German" car? what does it matter what anyone else drives.
J
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It's despicable to just be in the outside lane unawares when people want to pass. It's even more despicable to stay there on purpose. To pull out in someone's path when you know they are going to have to brake, perhaps heavily, is quite simply half-witted. You think you are being nasty and putting a fast-driving lunatic in his or her place. Really you are getting dangerously in the way and risking damage to vehicles and people including yourself. You are being an utter twerp and excrement hound.
When you pull out to overtake in the path of a fast moving vehicle you owe it to the other driver, and yourself, and any idea of decency and honour, to floor it and minimise the hassle to others. It's very obvious and not difficult.
But I'm afraid that's a bit of an intellectual challenge for some.
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Some of the posts above beggar belief. What is anyone trying to prove if they get in the way of a fast moving vehicle or attempt to get one over by impeding progress of others? There's a distinct whiff of BS from some of the tales recounted - perhaps they're here to keep the discussion going. However, if people really do engage in such reckless practices, I really hope that they get caught and banned before they end up in court on death by dangerous driving charges or being a passenger in a hearse.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Fri 23 Apr 10 at 01:04
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>> When you pull out to overtake in the path of a fast moving vehicle you
>> owe it to the other driver and yourself and any idea of decency and honour
>> to floor it and minimise the hassle to others. It's very obvious and not difficult.
>>
Correct. It takes but a few seconds to get to an indicated 85mph, but if someone is doing 110+ then no matter how you look at it unless there's a gap a mile long they're going to shoot up your backside during the overtake.
Perhaps if we had the occasional traffic officer or speed camera on the motorway network this wouldn't be a problem, since there wouldn't be anyone going stupidly fast to pull in front of.
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>> the occasional traffic officer or speed camera on the motorway network
Officer over camera every day of the week and twice on sunday.
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Jacks
Jacks
You appear to be trying to make adverse comments about virtually everything that has been posted on this thread. Nothing wrong with that, of course. That's what these forums are all about. People giving their opinions about subjects that are raised by correspondents that are of reasonably mutual interest.
With regard to your observation on my original post could I suggest that you re-read it in its entirity. You will see that I was continually overtaking slower moving traffic on a two lane motorway. Although I didn't state it my intention was, most definitely, to move back into lane 1 when I had got past the slower moving traffic. As I was passing slower moving traffic and was travelling at the legal speed limit I posed a question – 'should I have given way?' You obviously think that I should have and I thank you for that observation.
You will notice that my reference to the other vehicle being German was qualified by the phrase 'as it happens' in parenthisis – this was my way of saying that a commonly held belief on this forum that drivers of German cars are, shall we say, overly aggressive is not one to which I necessarily subscribe.
You don't happen to drive a German car at speeds over the legal limit by any chance do you?
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>> You don't happen to drive a German car at speeds over the legal limit by
>> any chance do you?
>>
No I drive a Volvo - Chinese owned, Swedish designed from mostly Ford parts with a Peugeot diesel engine and assembled in Belgium - and I don't care what anybody else drives as long as they do it safely when they're on the same stretch of road as me!
But to go back to your OP - you said
"hardly anything on the outside lane where I was travelling on cruise control at between 70 and 75 mph on my speedo ( a true speed of 70)"
Several people have taken from that sentence that you were sat in lane 2 - hence the use of cruise control
Many would agree that it's unusual to set the cruise for an overtaking manouevre.
To your question - Yes you should have moved into lane 1 as soon as there was a gap and it was safe to do so, as one would anyway regardless of what car, if any, was behind you.
J
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>> >> the occasional traffic officer or speed camera on the motorway network
>>
>> Officer over camera every day of the week and twice on sunday.
>>
I see the occasional one on a bridge but presumably they're not sending out fines because there's still a considerable number of people who charge around the motorway network in lane 3 at some insane speeds.
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>> Should I have given way?
Yup.
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The Highway Code seems to cover your situation.
"Lane discipline
264
You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past."
In my opinion you don't have any right to deliberately block the passage of other drivers, regardless of what speed you (and they) might be doing.
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On page 81 of Paul Ripley's "Expert Driving" it says .............
"Only use cruise control when motorway traffic is light. Using it can tempt you to linger with too small a margin of speed whilst you overhaul traffic you are passing, thereby causing frustration behind you."
You were causing frustration to the driver of the large German car behind you.
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>> (Ripley's) "Only use cruise control when motorway traffic is light. Using it can tempt
>> you to linger with too small a margin of speed whilst you overhaul traffic
I use CC on the motorway, and if this happens, just apply the accelerator temporarily. Release it and "normal" CC returns.
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Yes, 'blocking' tactics are the thin edge of a very dangerous wedge. I quite often see these unofficial 'safety cars' on my trips on duals. Whatever one might think about speeding (which is often defined by such mimsers, as anyone driving faster than them..) willful obstruction is both a common law offence & a driving offence (of the 'due care' variety usually).
It's ironic & somewhat contradictory, that the my-speed-or-nothing types who block others in the belief that they're doing 'good' are actually increasing the chance of RTAs, rather than the reverse.
I don't speed (overly) on a dual & I'm frequently passed by those who choose to - I'd much rather have them in front of me & away than getting frustrated & plotting 'revenge' behind me I must say.
As other CC users have noted, it's quite easy to speed up from your slow approach to an upcoming overtake then nip quickly back in & resume cruise - I tend to drive like this.
As a final thought - some posts here (not necessarily the OP) on the subject gast my flabber - are people really driving like that? i.e. brake testing, teasing etc. It makes you wonder how many true 'accidents' there are, as opposed to ego driven out-of-control confrontations.
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>> are people really driving like that? i.e. brake testing teasing etc.
>> It makes you wonder how many true 'accidents' there are as opposed to ego driven
>> out-of-control confrontations.
Yes. These people should not be on the road, and preferably confined to the safety of their own homes.
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"Kensitas"? I thought you went out around the time of Capstan Full Strength!
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Being a tailor-made - I never go out(!) 'Capstan Fulls' didn't survive as you say - in common with many of their consumers of course. Not helped, I'd say, by their soubriquet , 'coffin nails'.
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OK, if we're done with lane hogging and speed policing, how about those areas of chevrons bounded by solid lines with red studs that you see separating lanes at motorway junctions? There's an unambiguous rule about those in the HC - presumably put there for a reason - but you'll see it ignored at the slightest sign of a queue on either side of one.
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Stuck on the M40 today in lane one behind a Turkish truck.
Just sitting there going no where when another Turkish truck rumbbled up the hard shoulder and stopped cab to cab the the truck in lane one.
Eventually we all started to creep and the truck in my lane moved over and parked on the hard shoulder and the driver hopped out to chat.
They were still there as I speeded up.
Rules? what rules?
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For that situation henry --
>> Just sitting there going no where
I'm more inclined to say "who cares". It's a pretty specific scenario.
Yes it could impede emergency traffic**
Yes it's a slippery slope before noone obeys any rules, where do you draw the line.
Yes, we'd be in a sorry situation if everyone did the same... and so on
But who cares. Everyone was sat going nowhere, he recognised his chum ahead, why not have a natter, it was only him doing it, no real disruption.
** in an ideal world lanes 2 & 3 would have a duty there, as in the german autobahn system.
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After living in Germany for the last 8 months, UK lane discipline drives me nuts! Over here speed differencials are frequently over 100kph (especially in my car, its slow) so you have to be real careful pulling out to overtake. Also, if you don't pull over you have some large lump of bavarian metal up your chuff indicating left*. You very quickly leran to pull over ASAP after passing something.
One other advantage is "Elephant Racing" is banned during busy periods so two overtaking lanes are available.
Joe
* Flashing headlights etc is illegal, so people just leave thier indicators on.
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The germans have got a lot of things right, from the way a learner driver is brought up to speed and the things they need to be proficient in (first aid, basic mechanics etc.) to their autobahn system with advisory speed limits.
Some less popular things -- their dedicated motoring courts, their non-negotiable approach to speed limit enforcement in rural areas, it's all pretty well thought out and considered.
They get some things wrong though, but very little compared to us.
Thank for the italians. We're not the worst driving nation in europe yet :-P (we're not that bad really compared to some others!!)
EDIT: i think you're legally allowed to flash, just not repeatedly or excessively. Same for horn. They have traffic police who do patrol the autobahns properly. If johnny bmw is tailgating you then you'll both get done. Him for tailgating, and you for holding him up. If you argue, you'll be taken to a motoring court. You will be found guilty, although you are allowed to argue if you'd like the fine doubled or tripled. Afterwards it's your tough luck to find your way back to your car... (yeah this is the the bit i dont think they get 100% right, close, but not 100%)
Last edited by: CraigP on Wed 21 Apr 10 at 21:51
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>> EDIT: i think you're legally allowed to flash just not repeatedly or excessively.
You are allowed to signal your intention to overtake on the autobahn either by flashing the headlights once or using the left indicator. You're not allowed to do this continuously whilst sitting 2 metres from the backside of the car in front at 200km/h, that's aggressive driving.
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Vehicles on the hard shoulder can lead to serious crashes (that's why if you break down and have to stop on the hard shoulder, it's advisable to get out and get behind the Armco or ar least further away).
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Motorway discipline - Zero
