For the lorry drivers on here - why? Passed a procession of lorries on the M56 yesterday in heavy rain, all doing 56mph and less than a car's length between each other.
There is no way you could all simultaneously perform an emergency stop, nor is it worth it from a fuel saving perspective because you don't pay for the diesel. Only the driver at the front has any forward vision.
Given that if someone's killed in a motorway accident it's almost certainly because there's a lorry involved, one would hope you have a high regard for safety: other people even if not your own.
So - since you're professional drivers - why do you do it?
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And a Happy New Year to you too:)
It's been done to death on here so why not use the search button?
Pat
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Happy New Year! Would have searched, but the search button here never brings up what you're looking for.
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Let's just say I don't question how you drive your hairy plane..........:)
All I ask is you get me there!
Pat
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Yeah but none of us are driving on his runway!
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>> Let's just say I don't question how you drive your hairy plane..........:)
>>
>> All I ask is you get me there!
>>
>> Pat
>>
But I would expect you to question how I drive it if you thought it was unsafe.
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That's always been my point....as a lorry driver I would never, ever feel qualified to judge the way you drive your wheels.
I trust your judgement totally.
Pat
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>> That's always been my point....as a lorry driver I would never, ever feel qualified to
>> judge the way you drive your wheels.
>>
You would if he passed two foot above your roof while texting and eating a sandwich.
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Just as long as he gets me there without an accident, I don't mind what he does while he 'drives' it:)
Pat
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>> I don't mind what he does while he 'drives' it:)
I thought the pilot was just there to take off and land the thing. The autopilot button does the rest.
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TDs to see to as well mind Dave.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 1 Jan 12 at 17:46
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>> For the lorry drivers on here - why? Passed a procession of lorries on the
>> M56 yesterday in heavy rain, all doing 56mph and less than a car's length between
>> each other.
>>
>> So - since you're professional drivers - why do you do it?
>>
For a start they're not all doing 56 mph; some run slower than that, as a quick look at the stickers on theirback doors will tell you. Therefore, some will overtake others, because they're running faster; and to avoid car drivers getting all het up because they leave a longer gap before pulling back into their lane, they get flashed in by their colleagues when they deem it safe to do so. Since the overtaking vehicle is still running faster the gap increases until it's bigger than the car length you refer to but less than the stopping distance.
As someone will no doubt remind me, the "two-second rule" should be applied at times like this; however, personal experience is that if I do apply same, I get cut up by a car or van driver who sees a gap which he thinks is big enough to fit into, causing me to slow down, causing concertina effect, etc. So you tend to drive with a gap that in theory is too small but in practice keeps idiots out.
I would respectfully suggest that your estimation of a "car length" is in fact skewed by visual perspective; most HGV drivers become very uncomfortable when they know that a vehicle behind them is too close, because they simply can't see them. Certainly if a driver tailgates me I tend to reduce my speed to encourage him to overtake, my theory being that if he wants to drive like a plank I'd rather have him in front where I can see him.
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I agree it is probably very difficult to estimate distances accurately when down to 1 or 2 car lengths. But if there is car behind you and you can't see its headlights, or a lorry and you can only see its radiator grill, then probably it is less than one car length behind?
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>> But if there is ... a lorry [behind you] and you can only see its radiator grille, then probably it is less than one car length behind?
The driver can see much farther down the road than you can. They have read the traffic situation ahead and are confident that you won't do something stupid (i.e. brake hard) in the immediate future whilst they allow the gap to increase. It's unlikely a lorry driver will really sit tight up behind a car for any length of time, although sometimes a tailgating situation can occur, fleetingly, in the ebb and flow of traffic.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sat 31 Dec 11 at 19:18
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My views differ somewhat to other truck drivers.
If the behaviour of a truck is disconcerting or indeed frightening to car drivers in close proximity, there's a good chance that the truck is too close for comfort.
However some car drivers put themselves in harms way and after overtaking, pulling in/out of other lanes or junctions then slow down and speed up willy nilly making themselves a nuisance, often entering the truck's previous safe braking distance for no reason whatsoever.
It would help if designers didn't try to make trucks look pretty, removed that silly plastic bumper and underskirt, and put a solid RSJ in its place painted with red and white chevrons...the RSJ is there anyway about 2" behind the false bumper and there's no crumple zone anywhere on a truck.
If truck drivers want to mangle themselves by sitting too close to other trucks thereby giving themselves no early warning and zero visibility then thats up to them, i don't do it and try to remove myself from bunches, how on earth can you clock totty if you're so close to the truck in front you daren't take your eyes of it..;)..must be batting for the other team.
Be interesting to see how car drivers get on when speed limiters get fitted to cars, as they surely will in due course, probably linked in to compulsory sat nav routing, useful to keep an eye on people too in big brother land.
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>> Be interesting to see how car drivers get on when speed limiters get fitted to cars
I've noticed (when driving unrestricted vans or cars) that the drivers of the new generation of 70mph speed-limited Transits etc. have quickly adapted to using lane 1. When cars become restricted I predict a lot of near-misses halfway through single-carriageway overtakes.
Should it ever become law on cars, the value and desirability of pre-restriction motors will shoot up. How many years did we still see Scottish D-reg artics for after the 56mph rule first came in? :)
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When cars become restricted I predict a lot of near-misses halfway through single-carriageway overtakes.
>>
Yep, those murderous types who try their best to kill you by actually finding the throttle should you dare to overtake their miserable frustrating mimsing effort will have a field day.
I didn't want to give up my unlimited motors, didn't want a tacho when log books were being phased out to keep us in line with the EUSSR masterstate all those years ago, and i didn't want to lose me manual when the gearbox from hell arrived.
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>> drivers of the new generation of 70mph speed-limited Transits etc. have quickly adapted to using lane 1. When cars become restricted I predict a lot of near-misses halfway through single-carriageway overtakes.
>> Should it ever become law on cars,
Good God you guys, honestly I mean, a profound bummer on which to end the year, thanks a lot.
'The horror! The horror!'
(The true last words of Mr Kurtz, 'Heart of Darkness' by Joseph Conrad).
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>> 'The horror! The horror!'
Sorry AC, trouble is you just know some aparatchiks have nightly wet dreams over this, not only could they force your speed and route adherence, the monitoring potential is unlimited, and the motorist has to pay up and comply...ooh they'll be in the cold showers all morning.
You haff no route authorised comrade, where are you going??
Sweet dreams AC..;)
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"However some car drivers put themselves in harms way and after overtaking, pulling in/out of other lanes or junctions then slow down and speed up willy nilly making themselves a nuisance, often entering the truck's previous safe braking distance for no reason whatsoever."
As a caravanner I have every sympathy for truck drivers who have to put up with this. It happens all of the time when I'm tugging my 'van on the motorway. I stick strictly to the speed limits in order to save fuel, and frequently have to overtake some numpty doing just under fifty who objects to being overtaken by a caravan. They then overtake again and slow down. Some even crawl, and when I try to get past them they speed up. It's annoying as it doesn't allow me to proceed at a steady pace and I have to keep changing to a lower gear.
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>> It's annoying as it doesn't allow me to proceed at a steady pace and I have to keep >>changing
I don't tow very often...but when I have i've found exactly the same...(and I couldn't give two hoots about the fuel economy, I just want to get there, so will push the boundary to what is acceptably safe... and it still happens)...inc the middle lane clowns who will not move and as I don't want to go in lane three (illegal and unsafe), I undertake (illegal)...after which they'll sail past you again....and do the same all over again.
The lorry drivers however are normally most courteous and will give you the same considerations they give their peers.
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>> The lorry drivers however are normally most courteous and will give you the same considerations
>> they give their peers.
+1.
I come across far more idiots in cars than in lorries. Some of them should drive a lorry for a day to understand what it's like with a heavy load on the back.
I sometimes look up at the truck's mirrors to see if the driver has seen me coming alongside him/her. More often than not they are watching me, which is a good thing.
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> and as I don't want to go in lane three>> (illegal and unsafe), I undertake (illegal)...
Shirley, an undertake isn't by definition illegal?
My understanding is that an undertake is only illegal if the driver has changed lanes in order to perform the undertake.
Non?
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...Non?...
The position appears to be undertaking is legal on any road in traffic where the streams are moving at a different rate.
What is illegal - due care and attention - is to undertake a middle lane hog on an otherwise empty motorway.
The undertaken driver could report the incident, but the only successful prosecutions I've heard of is where the undertake has been witnessed by a third party, usually a traffic cop.
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>> What is illegal - due care and attention - is to undertake a middle lane
>> hog on an otherwise empty motorway.
A perfect undertake performed yesterday, dual carriageway, red (why are mimsers small cars so often red?) hatchback poncing about in the outside lane overtaking no one, watched it approaching and the 4x4 behind it, the red car passed me, just, then stayed out presumably because another vehicle moving at my speed 55 was about half a mile ahead, or maybe the outside lane is designated travelling lane for them at around 60mph.
Anyway, 4x4 not tailgaiting i should add, after coming past me executes a perfectly safe IMO undertake, neither cutting me or the red car up or getting anywhere near the vehicle in front of me and drives off into the distance, i see nothing wrong with the 4x4 drivers manoeuver.
Red car stayed out in the outside lane and about a minute later managed to reach the next vehicle, had it pulled in there was time for a dozen following cars to overtake.
Its people like the driver of the red car that cause half the understandable frustration, bunching and tailgaiting we see every day, you'd be terrified of being stuck behind them if a nasty junction was coming up for instance, goodness knows what gueues they could cause if more than three vehicles on a road somewhere..
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>>
>> Red car stayed out in the outside lane and about a minute later managed to
>> reach the next vehicle, had it pulled in there was time for a dozen following
>> cars to overtake.
>>
When I did a "Drive and Survive" day some years ago, the instructor taught me that if you have been in an outside lane for long enough to allow someone else to safely overtake you (assuming the inside lane is empty) then by definition you are in the wrong lane.
Difficult to actually put into words but I hope you get the drift.
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>> Anyway, 4x4 not tailgaiting i should add, after coming past me executes a perfectly safe
>> IMO undertake
Problem is that driver hogging outside lane probably isn't quite on the ball, and if they eventually do decide to move back over, they won't check to make sure there isn't a vehicle undertaking them.
Saw this happen on the M6 on Thursday - nearly a nasty accident.
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>> Problem is that driver hogging outside lane probably isn't quite on the ball, and if
>> they eventually do decide to move back over, they won't check to make sure there
>> isn't a vehicle undertaking them.
Indeed it can happen and care is needed, but the red car had been glued to the rails in the outside lane all the time i'd watched it approaching, only suprised the 4x4 hadnt executed the undertake before it reached me, might have miles in the outside, i never saw it return to the left lane.
[[Difficult to actually put into words but I hope you get the drift.]]
Spot on, can't argue with that.
I think some of these lane hoggers would like a blue light on top so they could force everyone else to mimse along watching their display of road safety.
I wonder if its sheer ignorance, SWM thinks a lot of it is exercising a little bit of control that thrills them...i can force you to adhere to my speed and you can do nothing about it...sort of thing.
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I don't think many lane hoggers aren't trying to impose the law others, they simply are worried by or don't have the skill to pull out, overtake and return to the nearside lane. They are frightened of becoming stuck in the nearside lane and sandwiched between two truck so for them the safest option is, they think, the middle lane.
I have known several people who have admitted to exactly such a style of driving on motorways. Don't know what you do about it but give them a wide berth
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>> Since the overtaking vehicle is still running faster the gap increases until it's bigger than the car length
>> you refer to but less than the stopping distance
Absolutely spot on HM.
A day out in an HGV would open so many car drivers' eyes to the particular issues faced by lorry drivers with regards to speed limiters, following distances, "elephant racing" and the lunatic behaviour of a small but significant band of other road users. We can do without the blanket condemnation of our on-road behaviour by those who don't understand the thinking behind it.
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We were talking about this thread on the way home from Kent last night in torrential rain with a lot of surface water.
The M25 and M11 carried a few lorries but so many cars and the thing that wanoticeablele to us both was the amount of brake lights up ahead being constantly used to 'make safe progress'.
As a lorry driver, I feel that I have let my own personal standards of driving slip below the acceptable, if I have to touch my brakes on a motorway in anything other than an emergency situation.
It's quite easy and far less stressful to anticipate the speed of the vehicle ahead anthrottleottloe control than chase up to his bumper and brake, causing everyone behind to do the same thing.
I think there is a far greater degree of tailgating by cars on motorways and is the cause of the regular 4 or 5 car shunts that occur in the outside lane on a daily basis.
Pat
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>> but so many cars and the thing
>> that wanoticeablele to us both was the amount of brake lights up ahead being constantly
>> used to 'make safe progress'.
>>
...in that case it wasn't 'making safe progress'.
When they teach you advanced police driving, they expect you to do similar with the braking i.e. plan ahead, anticipate...and not have to keep standing on the brakes...and if you can't make progress, hang back in a position where you have some decent vision.
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>> When they teach you advanced police driving, they expect you to do similar with the
>> braking i.e. plan ahead, anticipate...and not have to keep standing on the brakes...and if you
>> can't make progress, hang back in a position where you have some decent vision.
Sounds like common sense to me westpig.
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As a regular driver on the M11 I agree that tailgating by cars on that road is virtually the norm The spacing chevrons on the southbound near Stansted are commonly ignored by cars doing 80 plus.
A lot of tailgating seems to be caused by the car in front slowing (why do car drivers do that when driving up an incline?) and the reluctance of other drivers to either overtake or take their foot off the accelerator to maintain the gap.
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On my rare forays on the M25 and surrounding motorways I am always struck by the speed and closeness of the traffic.
Quite daunting until you get used to it.
The M6 past Manchester and Birmingham can be the same.
The A1(M) in North Yorkshire and County Durham has its moments, but is nothing like as bad.
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Blimmin' awful Bank Holiday car drivers thronging the M1 today, both southbound from 22 to 13 at 11am and coming back 8 hours later. Centre lane hogging, brake-pedal dabbing and gross inattention all in abundant evidence. Special award goes to the Fiat Stilo driver near Leicester tonight who joined the street-lit motorway on sidelights only, and continued thus for at least 4 miles after the street lighting ended, at a good 80mph in the pitch dark.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 2 Jan 12 at 23:30
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Special award goes to the Fiat Stilo driver near
>> Leicester tonight
Probably a lost soul re-enacting its last earthly journey, if not yet it's going the right way about becoming one.
I have a tale of strange occurence i could bore you all with, gives me the creeps just remembering it...edit..timed at midnight..''is anybody there'':-)
Glad i wasn't on the road today, well done Dave for putting up with it.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 3 Jan 12 at 00:02
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>> I have a tale of strange occurence i could bore you all with, gives me
>> the creeps just remembering it...edit..timed at midnight..''is anybody there'':-)
Please tell.....Maybe on a new 'strange and ghostly' thread....
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>>As a lorry driver, I feel that I have let my own personal standards of driving slip below the acceptable, if I have to touch my brakes on a motorway in anything other than an emergency situation.
Agreed - I remember counting on one boring rush hour journey that the driver directly in front of me had braked something like 40 times and I hadn't braked once.
Top Gear had the right idea when they rigged James' Roller to sound the horn every time he braked!
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HGVs tailgating - Pat
