Its that time where the Sharan needs a few quid spending - service due, new discs / pads and a split gator picked up on the MOT. Also getting lazy to turn over when its cold so I suspect new battery any time soon.
None of these are major items, but I have been thinking of changing for something newer for a while now, so its a kind of do it now, or pay up and stick with it for a while.
Anyway, while browsing I noticed that the new sharan / alhambra are now filtering onto the used market ( I guess ex demo or ex hire in the main). The thing that surprised me was the difference in price between petrol and diesel. Entry level is fine for us and has enough spec, but they are about 4K difference in price. I worked out that at claimed MPG I reckon that it would be 4-500 quid a year more to run the petrol at 10K per annum, so it would take a fair few years for the diesel to pay for its difference in price.
Am I missing something or is the petrol the shrewd buy and just being overlooked due to peoples obsession with MPG?
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>> Am I missing something or is the petrol the shrewd buy and just being overlooked
>> due to peoples obsession with MPG?
and road tax
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>> and road tax
>>
Factored this in my running costs
£190 for the Petrol
£130 for the derv
Not a big difference, but I guess I should consider that it could change for the worse in years to come.
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I think the rule of thumb is that up to a milege of 15000 per year the petrol option of most cars is the best buy financially.
One thing you have to watch is the depreciation though. For some cars the petrol version depreiciates quicker than the diesel so you have to take that into account.
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>> I think the rule of thumb is that up to a milege of 15000 per
>> year the petrol option of most cars is the best buy financially.
>>
>> One thing you have to watch is the depreciation though. For some cars the petrol
>> version depreiciates quicker than the diesel so you have to take that into account.
>>
>>
>>
I estimate our annual mileage to be around 10K. The little ones walk to school so sometimes Mrs B may not drive it for a few days at a time.
I have thought about what it may be worth in years to come, but I would see us keeping it 5 years, so that may not be so much of a consideration. The having to find 4K less now is more of a consideration :-)
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I'd get the petrol then. I have a diesel Octavia and no do about 12000 miles per year. If I were to replace it would get a petrol model on economic grounds
Of course some people prefer driving a diesel even if it costs a bit more
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Not a patch on a Galaxy apparently.
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In which way Cheddar?
I would consider the Galaxy, but everything I have read says they are as good as each other, but the Sharan is apparently more refined and a bit quieter, plus having youngsters in child seats means that the sliding doors would be a bonus
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Yes, look at the future depreciation. The petrol may be £4k cheaper now, which is what you are basing your calculations on, but what will the difference be when you sell it on? If you almost run it into the ground then the gap between the petrol and diesel cars will be almost nil, but if you intend to sell it on when there is still a bit of value in the car, then you need to allow for the fact that most buyers go for lower running costs, which is why diesels hold their price better.
The diesel will have better day-to-day performance (i.e. 30-50, not 0-60), and is better suited to this type of car.
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Running costs are a small fraction of the total costs, and most "calculations" omit depreciation, hence HJ et al saying you need to drive 15,000 pa to make diesel "economic". Total cost per mile over a 3 year cycle works out very similar with respect to petrol and diesel if you have access to total cost figures. Longer usage may well make depreciation less relevant. One caveat is the spectre of the DPF: if driving tends to the short run end of the spectrum, use petrol. Or, shock, horror to many school run Mums, walk.
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>> One caveat is the spectre of the DPF: if driving
>> tends to the short run end of the spectrum, use petrol.
As well as the DPF, the other diesel specific item known to give problems is the dual mass flywheel, if fitted to that model.
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>> Yes, look at the future depreciation. The petrol may be £4k cheaper now, which is
>> what you are basing your calculations on, but what will the difference be when you
>> sell it on?
Not 4k. Most of the depreciation difference hit has been taken by the time you buy it as first second user. The difference reduces in % terms the longer you keep it and run it, to the point it becomes negligible.
Buying the petrol version new is where you get stripped!
Last edited by: Zero on Wed 21 Dec 11 at 22:21
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>> Not 4k. Most of the depreciation difference hit has been taken by the time you
>> buy it as first second user. The difference reduces in % terms the longer you
>> keep it and run it, to the point it becomes negligible.
>>
>> Buying the petrol version new is where you get stripped!
>>
Zero - that was my thoughts - I know its always going to be worth less than the diesel version, but if at 6 months old its 4K cheaper and the difference was only 1200 quid at new then is it fair to assume that in real terms they will now depreciate fairly equally year on year retaining a similar % gap
Would probably keep it for around 5 years so dont think that depreciation is a massive issue for me, but would be disappointed to find out it was worth pence, and the diesel would really have been worth several K more in 5 years
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One of the reasons that I may have preferred a diesel in the past on such a large vehicle is driveability - low end torque, however the modern trend towards turbo petrols means that these too have decent torque (even from the diminutive 1.4TSi IMHO), if the sums add up (future depreciation) go for it I say.
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I was going to suggest having a look at what Addison Lee have for sale.
But the sales site lists no vehicles, perhaps they've stopped retailing, but the site is still running:
www.addleecarsales.com/
The main company is still trading, claiming to be London's biggest minicab operator, etc, etc:
www.addisonlee.com/
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...But the sales site lists no vehicles, perhaps they've stopped retailing, but the site is still running...
I rang the Addison Lee sales operation to see what's afoot.
The man told me they sold the last Sharan yesterday, but will have 'lots of Galaxsies' after Christmas.
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>> I rang the Addison Lee sales operation to see what's afoot.
>>
>> The man told me they sold the last Sharan yesterday, >>
That's a milestone - used to see loads of them round London. Now all Galaxies, of course. I would love to have an inside line on how reliable the various cars have been. I recall they had a bad time with Fiat Ulyses they used to run...
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>> In which way Cheddar?
>>
To drive, steering, handling etc.
>> I would consider the Galaxy, but everything I have read says they are as good
>> as each other, but the Sharan is apparently more refined and a bit quieter, plus having youngsters in child seats means that the sliding doors would be a bonus>>
How about a Grand C-Max, had one in France for a week in the summer, a very good car, sliding doors and all.
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If there really is a £4K difference in price that would make a LPG conversion a quids in investment.
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As someone experienced in driving cars for 15 years, you should factor in the following:
Unless you carefully look after them exhausts fail on petrol cars between 5 - 8 years, Add 2-5 years more for diesel life.
Batteries on diesels are critical in winter - far more than petrol.. A good battery may last between 4-8 years or more on a diesel - 2-3 years more on a petrol.
Try doubling fuel prices and rework the savings on fuel.. Fuel prices are likely to at least double in the next 10 years.. or more.. (There may be a fall if we hit recession in 2012 but the Chinese and others are building lots more cars...)
Don't buy any car with poor electrical reliability. After 10 years the wiring connectors will fail etc.. due to damp or corrosion. Which basically excludes a whole swathe of European makers including VW?Audi, BMW, MB, Renault. PSA etc :-) .Ford and Volvo are OK..
Edit: and of course tyre prices are likely to double as well.. Low profile tyres are not good news on 16 inch rims or greater.. due to price. Factor in 1 set of 4 every 4 years and double price every 8 years.
Last edited by: madf on Thu 22 Dec 11 at 12:56
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>>
>> Don't buy any car with poor electrical reliability. After 10 years the wiring connectors will
>> fail etc.. due to damp or corrosion. Which basically excludes a whole swathe of European
>> makers including VW?Audi, BMW, MB, Renault. PSA etc :-) .Ford and Volvo are OK..
You have any evidence or proof for this bold sweeping condemnation of 80% of all cars sold?
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sweeping condemnation it may be, but it strikes a chord - the Octavia, 2yrs old give or take a day or two, has just had the number plate lights fixed under warranty - the pins in the connectors between the loom and the bulb holder had rusted away, not very reassuring in a car that young
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OK - looking like petrol is viable now. Have found a nice demonstrator, and spoke with the guy - sounds pretty sound and is working out a deal for me and will come back next week when he's back in.
Now on the parkers website they have a clever little gadget where you can compare the running costs of different models against each other. Their figure for fuel and road tax is the same as mine, but the purchase / depreciation is a bit skewed as they take the new list price. What is throwing me is that they have the servicing costs down as being quite a bit lower for the petrol, and even over 5 years / 100K they reckon the overall cost to run is equal due to the reduced maintenance costs.
I know the petrol is chain cam, so I guess they have factored in a cam belt change, and the diesels use adblue which I guess needs topping at some point, but cant see any other reason for the reduced service costs. Will follow up with the dealer and ask for service costs next week, but I wondered if anyone had any idea why there may be a difference?
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All the diesels I have owned have had shorter service intervals than their petrol cousins, particularly when it comes to oil changes.
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My previous car was a Mazda6 2.0d - the sort that oil levels increased on - and it needed servicing at 12500 miles or 12 months. I had interim oil changes (company car) as I felt it was a safe bet - otherwise I might have been held responsible for problems! I didn't have to pay.
Passat CC is on long life service intervals. So when I got it, it was soon saying about 2 years and 3 days to first service or 18,700 miles. I have since done about 2300 miles and both estimates have dropped but not proportionally considering mileage.
At this rate the Passat CC will have one service when I've got it. Around the 18 month mark at a guess. And at 3 years it goes back. So might need a second one (might). Depends how I drive it.
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SEAT Alhambra - New purchase - am I missing something? - Zero
