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When heavy goods drivers do their test,is this in a empty lorry?The reason i am asking is that on a strech of road to our small town with roundabouts to the docks.Quite a few have turned over.I spoke to to a eldery lorry driver about the accidents and he blamed new lorry drivers not used to the fully laden lorry driving to quickly.
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I could write a book here but i'm stuck in the past.
So i'll stay out of this one for the time being other than to say yes, the instruction and test trucks are empty, and should the talk of loaded trucks become the case the load will probably be concrete blocks with a low centre of gravity.
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Trucks overturning on roundabouts, and series of corners has been a long standing problem.
As the height between the truck's centre of mass and the suspension's roll centre can be significant, the truck can behave a little bit like a sprung, but inverted pendulum. If the time lag between the succsessive left / right cornering motions coincides with the natural frequency of this inverted pendulum, the truck will have a strong chance of going over. Going slower or faster than this problematic speed would be OK.
It's a situation that's not helped by the preponderance of super single tyres and air suspensions. An axle on super singles needs only one tyre to be a bit low on pressure and the roll stiffness of the axle is compromised, and air suspensions mean that the lateral separation between the springs is reduced - roll stiffness is proportional to the spring base squared.
Having said all of this, it is far from being a new or modern problem.
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Thanks for that technical explanation NC, it explains why it seems to have got worse with air suspension in later years.
I know quite a few drivers who have mentioned just 'kissing' the kerb before going over and that seems to be all it needs. Likewise with the camber of the road towards the n/s kerb as well.
I have to add though, it isn't just new drivers who it happens to, a lot of older drivers like myself are guilty of getting complacent, certainly with local, familiare roads. It's easy not to take into account that the load may be higher/lower or distributed a tad differently to all the other times we've driven round that bend.
It's the reason I like to drive 'by the seat of my pants'.
If you haven't been present when your trailer is loaded you have a good idea by the end of the first couple of miles where everything is placed, and if it's OK or not!
Pat
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About six months ago on this road lorry taking the round about the container fell off.
Killed a female cyclist.How do these containers fastened on the lorry?And who is responsible that they are safe the loader or the driver?
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>> About six months ago on this road lorry taking the round about the container fell
>> off.
>> Killed a female cyclist.How do these containers fastened on the lorry?And who is responsible that
>> they are safe the loader or the driver?
Containers are held on with 4 pins, driver is responsible for the load even if he didn't load it.
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Zero's right Dutchie and containers do fix down by corner pins and also some along the trailer of long ones on skeleton trailers.
He's also right that the driver is responsible at all times for the load, even if he hasn't loaded it or even seen it loaded. Often in the case of containers they are loaded very badly and as it's sealed the driver can do nothing about it, other than drive very carefully, but is still fully responsible.
In the case you mention though, which I am familiar with, the container was on a flat bed lorry and only secured with two straps. What makes it worse is that, if I recall correctly it was the owner of the firm who was driving, so he was fully aware of his responsibilities, and still decided to take the risk sooner than use far more straps to secure it to a flat trailer.
Pat
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Thanks Pat very sad case and could have been avoided.
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When I drove 3-ton multidrops, one of the lads wrote off the last of our Bedford TKs under amusing circumstances.
He was travelling anticlockwise around the North Circular road and going into that girder bridged bend approaching Ikea. He'd noticed slow traffic ahead and was looking into his mirror for a gap to move out into. While he was preparing to change lanes, a scream of "Look out!" from the adjacent seat caused him to divert his attention. On looking back he found the last car in the queue on his front bumper, it was a funeral procession so "slow traffic" meant 10mph rather than the 30-odd he'd assumed.
Out of options he yanked the wheel right, just as he hit the bend. The truck went up on two wheels down the outside, teetered for a while and then dropped........right on top of the hearse.
He was *very* popular with the boss........
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I'll add a little something here, as i'm fed up to the back teeth with excuses for this.
A truck and presumably bus/coach drivers insurance and accident record does not follow them around.
This is a ludicrous situation as there is a small minority of licence holders who should not be doing the job and can flit from one job or agency to another wreaking havoc wherever they land and no one is any the wiser.
This didn't matter so much when virtually all companies had time served hard headed and wise transport managers, they were usually the ones who interviewed, hired and fired, modern recruiters on big logistics companies don't have the knowledge and apply normal recruiting methods, this is cobblers, proper truck drivers have never fitted a profile they are individuals, it is not another job, it is a whole way of life and demands skill and a certain attitude.
The old transport managers in a district all knew one another and exchanged such information informally, it's in no ones interests to employ numpties, severely detrimental to the industry as a whole, and dangerous for everyone.
A truck driver either has the feel and finesse for the job or he doesn't, there is no half way he'll do cos he doesn't get infringements and always sticks to the speed limits therefore etc, you cannot teach a monkey to grind the organ.
The line and speed combination i see some drivers take on roundabouts (and disrespect, ignorance, of camber and surface changes in the wet) it's pure luck more of them don't go over.
Wasn't going to get involved in this one, now look what you've made me do..;)
Course the automanual box not knowing what to do at junctions and the licence holder not overriding the box and forcing appropriate changes at the correct time doesn't help.
I refuse to call idiot licence holders 'drivers', that term has to be earned.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 21 Nov 11 at 12:28
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>>Course the automanual box not knowing what to do <<
You'll be blaming the automanual box for changing all the traffic lights red next GB:)
Pat
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That's exactly why i was going to stay out of this one.
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Before i clear off to work i'll clarify just why i dislike automanual boxes on trucks.
With an automanual box (most artics now are) any fool can pilot a truck, well in a straight line anyway, crash boxes and twin splitters etc kept a lot of idiots out of the driving seat, an idiot wouldn't get the things out of the yard to cause havoc in the first place, you had to be a driver to drive them.
Would keep wages up too for obvious reasons.
Thats it, i'll butt out from this now.
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I'll give my take on it now, but before I do I'd like to add that I hate automated manual boxes just as much as GB.
However, the myth that crash boxes and twin splitters kept idiots out of driving lorries is totally wrong.
I can manage both of them very well and so could any car driver on here given a small amount of time to get used to them.
We'd all like to think we had a 'special' skill, but in reality it was just another gearbox that needed a different way of using it, just as the automated manual does.
There were just as many idiots driving years ago as there are now, but we only want to remember the good times when we look back.
Just remember GB, you wasn't born able to drive a crash box or a twin splitter, but you soon learned how to, just as anyone else can too.
It's not difficult, and certainly not as difficult as some would like those who haven't used them to believe.
The difficult thing for drivers like you and I is accepting that there are young 'uns just waiting to step into our shoes, and with the training their getting these days, their pretty damn good too!
Pat
Last edited by: pda on Mon 21 Nov 11 at 17:36
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>> Course the automanual box not knowing what to do at junctions and the licence holder not overriding the box
>> and forcing appropriate changes at the correct time doesn't help
I've discovered that *that* automanual 7.5t Iveco I've driven a few times is kept as a spare lorry just for the agency drivers! It's not the oldest or most clapped out on the fleet either. As I've been out in it a dozen times or so now I've made a point of learning its quirks so it does what I want it to more of the time.
I still maintain that it's a glorified van with gearbox / exhaust brake software set up for an HGV application, which is why it's not very good whatever I do with it. At least I'm safer now I *know* it's not very good :)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 21 Nov 11 at 18:03
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I'm with Pat on this one. Any fool can drive any HGV forwards in a straight line, regardless of what gearbox they've got. It takes a driver to turn it, stop it and reverse it.
I can understand some drivers' antipathy towards auto boxes, but the difference it's made on my job, where you're up and down the gearbox on tight country lanes and farm tracks, is amazing. I no longer go home at the end of a long shift with that persistent ache in my left hip from using the clutch all day.
If there's one bit of modern HGV's that really does do my nut in , it's the plethora of warning bleeepers and lights that seem to kick off if you so much as fart at the wrong time. Drove a Renault today and it's like being in a fruit machine!
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 22 Nov 11 at 21:14
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Heavy Goods Driver Test. - -
