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Bad accident Dog,same type of incident which can happen in the rest of Europe.Germans are not that different from us when it comes to motorway driving.
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Ah: but the Germans have Wagner playing. Unable to back off.
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>> Germans are not that different from us when it comes to motorway driving.
Blimey Dutchie, I don't know where you live but it must be different from where I live.
I thought some German motorway driving was utterly insane. Ten or fifteen cars tailgating in the rain, I mean tailgating, 20 feet apart or less, at 120 or 130mph. And there were a lot of those trains. Despite the presence of waddling mimsers just like the ones we have here.
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I agree about the tailgating A.C.I found that out this year leaving my sister in R/Dam on the motorway to Utrecht.You have to be on the ball,cars crossing a fourlane M/Way not indicating.You are right they do tailgate when in Rome.>:)
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The thing that 'struck' me, and the main reason for posting the item, was the similarity to the recent M5 pile up,
Fog and speed are indicated again I believe, there are no motorways at all in Cornwall but Shirley there are overhead signs on motorways,autobahns warning of adverse driving conditions ahead??
Such a tragic loss of life, and so preventable in the 21st century, I would have thought!
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>> Such a tragic loss of life, and so preventable in the 21st century, I would
>> have thought!
>>
I firmly believe, that as cars have become 'safer' drivers have become oblivious of the dangers, that road conditions create.
Last year, we had a customer who wrote off their ML on sheet ice.
They couldn't understand why/how it happened.
They said something like:
'But it had ABS, Traction Control, 4 wheel drive, etc how on earth could it crash?'
That IS how cars are 'sold' these days, salesmen push the driver aids - and the customer conveniently ignores the law of physics.
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>> I firmly believe, that as cars have become 'safer' drivers have become oblivious of the
>> dangers, that road conditions create.
>> Last year, we had a customer who wrote off their ML on sheet ice.
>> They couldn't understand why/how it happened.
They are oblivious because those dangers are decreasing year on year. The number of people killed on roads in the UK has been going down every year for the last 20 years.
More people die in accidents at home than on our roads.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 19 Nov 11 at 23:57
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SQ
>> They are oblivious because those dangers are decreasing year on year. The number of people
>> killed on roads in the UK has been going down every year for the last
>> 20 years.
Rubbish!
Yes, less people are dying in the accidents, but the dangers (of having an accident) are still there.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 19 Nov 11 at 23:57
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Phew no lorries in the German pics.
Don't know about you lot but i've seen some appallingly incompetent driving this week at night time, probably every bit as bad in Germany.
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Nearly all the cars are black, silver or white.
I reckon that's a German thing.
If the smash was elsewhere in Europe, there would be a wider variety of colours.
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Company car uniform Iffy. You see the odd red and blue cars which are privately funded.
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...Company car uniform Iffy...
Thanks - you should know.
Are there more company cars in Germany than other countries?
Company cars tend to be used on motorways, so there will be a higher proportion of them in a motorway pile up.
The day of the week might have something to do with it.
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>>Are there more company cars in Germany than other countries?
>>
Can't speak for the country as a whole or all industries.
My own experience is if you do the miles (or kilometres) then they are usually offered.
With some of the distances which can be clocked up within the country it would be unreasonable to expect a private individual to fund a car for work.
Friday pm and Sunday pm are the peak times for traffic I've found but I don't do alot of travelling or when I do, use the train.
Bagpuss would be the one to give you the ins and outs of co. cars.
The area where the accident happened is the most densely populated area of Germany (NRW).
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 20 Nov 11 at 09:17
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I can remember many times when I've been driving along a motorway in mild fog conditions where all-of-a-sudden WHACK! I've hit a dense patch of thick fog that's made me slam on my anchors but (and I'll ask again) aren't there a plethora of warning signs on motorways these days to warn of adverse conditions ahead?
Or do some drivers just ignore them.
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But how many people take notice of warning signs Dog? Driving once from Calais to Antwerp we had torrential rain all the way.Two lane M/Way inside lane lorrys nose to nose.Outside lane the safe speed should have been 60 miles mph.I was keeping distance between the car in front or trying to.BMW driver pushing me to go faster.
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>> But how many people take notice of warning signs Dog? Driving once from Calais to
Antwerp we had torrential rain all the way.Two lane M/Way inside lane lorrys nose to
nose.Outside lane the safe speed should have been 60 miles mph.I was keeping distance between the car in front or trying to.BMW driver pushing me to go faster<<
And y'all wonder why Razzle worries about taking his Ailuropoda melanoleuca (Panda) on the Motorway :(
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>> ... but (and I'll ask again) aren't there a plethora of warning
>> signs on motorways these days to warn of adverse conditions ahead?
>>
>> Or do some drivers just ignore them.
>>
The overhead gantries in germany usually have speed limits, no overtaking signs for trucks or possibly the odd land closure but none of the Fo9 signs you get in the UK. Part of the driver training includes so many hours on the autobahn so people are taught to drive to the conditions.
As seen, they are human and don't always do what's best for them.
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>>As seen, they are human and don't always do what's best for them.<<
Say no more gmac!
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>>Phew no lorries in the German pics.
IIRC lorries used to be banned from German roads at weekends. Does this still apply? If so, depending on the time of the accident, it could account for their absence.
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>> Phew no lorries in the German pics.
>>
>> Don't know about you lot but i've seen some appallingly incompetent driving this week at
>> night time, probably every bit as bad in Germany.
Mind when I was down in Kent in the fog (thickish in parts) on Armistice day, I saw mostly excellent driving on the M25 down there. 55-60 mph, heavily trafficked but well spaced by all.
It was so good I muttered to myself I had never seen the like before.
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But serious injury and death is al we are worried about is it not? after all your response was to a "sad loss"
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>> Bad accident Dog,same type of incident which can happen in the rest of Europe.Germans are
>> not that different from us when it comes to motorway driving.
>>
I think they are better in many respects. In general they are much more more aware of other traffic, which lane to be in etc.
BUT.....as someone else says, they try to drive the same in adverse conditions as they would in perfect conditions - too fast, too close. For those that can understand German, there are some interesting stats for Austria (similar motorway drivers!) on the police website for Linz at tinyurl.com/6lqp6jp . In summary, in 2010, total road deaths fell by 13%, from 633 to 548, the biggest year-on-year reduction for 14 years. The biggest group of victims were car drivers (288) followed by pedestrians (94), then motorcyclists (71). Interestingly, they also analyse the suspected causes of accidents - 36% excessive speed, failing to give priority 14%, lack of observation 11%, overtaking manouveres 11%, failure to stop for pedestrians 7%, overtiredness 5%, and heart attacks/other illness 2%. Alcohol was involved in 5% of all accidents. Only 62 (around 12%) were killed on motorways.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sun 20 Nov 11 at 17:58
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Sad for all involved, but what is clear from the Mail photos is that the only two cars that are on their sides are 4x4s - a Range Rover and a Volvo XC60. Does this raise the 'unstable 4x4' argument again?
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I was in that neck of the woods in Northwestern Germany last week. Temperature in the evenings was around -5C and there were very thick fog banks. That particular autobahn is quite hilly and carries warnings about fog. The normal speed limit is (I think) 120km/h with the limit being reduced by overhead gantries in inclement conditions.
It is indeed strange that there are no trucks in the pictures - the weekend ban on trucks starts at midday Saturday and this accident was on Friday night.
According to the local press, 2 of the 3 people killed were already out of their car following one of the early collisions. They got hit by another car whilst trying to get across the road. The third person was found dead in his car in some bushes - the car had apparenly flipped over the crash barriers and landed some distance away.
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52 vehicle pile up in Germany. - Dutchie
