Been looking into replacement cars for the Fiesta, which won't see another MOT due to severe rust so will need replacing within the next 6 months or so. Its also approaching 100k now, we bought the car at 60k and was bought to last us three years and upto 90k, we have now owned it for 4.5 years not bad for a £850 banger. It is still mechanical sound but the rust is now so bad that I no longer consider it safe.
In many ways I think the Focus would be the perfect replacement, my dad likes cars which handle well (he hated my old Corsa B) and likes slick gear changes. If we had around £5k to spend (and that would have to the the max budget) what Focus would be a good buy. Is £5k enough to buy a genuine 30k 2007 example with FSH etc? The car would need to last around 10 years and my dad would do between 5-7k a year depending on what job he ends up doing.
Brand new is also a consideration but the budget would need to increase,. My dad is a bit snobby with regards to brands, because he used to have a few Ladas thinking what is wrong with them, when he bought the Fiat Punto he was amazed just how bad the Lada was.
I do think my dad would want to go for another Ford, because in his eyes in the ten years of driving nothing but Fords, the only let downs have been due to flat batteries (twice).
The car would need to be petrol as the annual mileage isn't high enough and there is just too much things to go wrong in the future in diesels. I was thinking a 1.6 petrol LX Focus would be the ideal spec? It doesn't have to be fast but I think the 1.4 is perhaps too under powered in a Focus and as a result will offer worse MPG and possible more engine problems as a result?
Other ideas I've had is to look into a run out old shape Kia Rio, but how bad are they to drive compared to a four year old Focus? Looking at Motorpoint there is some interesting options but ease of repair when it becomes an old banger is also a consideration.
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For less than £5k I would seriously consider the last of the mk 1 Focus models on an 05 plate.A 1.6 in either manual or auto trans is a reliable purchase.Later versions (of any make or model,for that matter)seem to suffer electrical software gremlins that can make minor faults annoying.You may have to suffer a slightly higher mileage ,but i don't think that is an issue.No garage ever got rich fixing these early Focus variants.hth
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Would have to be quite a bit less than £5k for one of those though, do last of the MK1 suffer from rust issues like some of the earlier MK1s have? When I was looking at late 90;s Focuses a few years back for myself I was staggered just how rusty some of them were.
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Rattle, we had a 2004 1.8 Zetec mk I Focus for a while (a year) and passed it on to my Sister who's still running it at 100K+ miles, it has no rust (but lots of dents, ahem) and has been almost faultless despite being fairly neglected by its current owner. These have a good spec too. If I were looking at the next generation I'd look to see if I could get Zetec (with aircon though) but the LX is perfectly OK as you say. All in all, good (great) cars and in my experience the petrol derivatives are as reliable as anything else you can buy. I'd probably avoid the 1.4 and base spec (without aircon).
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Good presentation from that dealer! nice jam jar as well - it wont stick around too long either I'll wager.
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Don't forget the later shape Focus has a 5-star NCAP rating, I know that's important to you Rattle. Prices do seem to be rather on the high side for 4-7 year old Fords lately IMO, I'm certain the Mondeo hasn't depreciated at all in 11k miles and 9 months.
LX spec would be my choice, smaller wheels therefore cheaper tyres, and wheeltrims are cheaper to replace on a city car than damaged alloys would be.
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Fords of Winsford have a good reputation in the North West - easy to get to from Manchester as well.
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I bet there are loads ex-motability at the auctions - get one at >£2k off retail price!
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>> I bet there are loads ex-motability at the auctions - get one at >£2k off
>> retail price!
That's still going to be some way over Rattle's £5k budget though.
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If the budget is upped, then it is the question of do we buy a more basic cheap brand new car, or 3 year old Focus.
The only reason I have mentioned a Focus is my dad has always been impressed them when he has been in them. Spec wise aircon, power steering, electric windows, cd player and the usual safety stuff is all he needs.
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What does he think of your Panda?
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He likes it, and that is the car he will be driving to the funeral on Monday. However my mum finds it a bit small (she has a phobia of cars, and if she got her way, we would be buying a 2000 Merc S class!).
It would be too small for my dads needs too, he does need a proper boot. He always loved the Punto, so a Punto might be worth considering as they are very cheap second hand, I am just not convinced that they are reliable enough.
A used Fiat Bravo might be another consideration as they come with 5 year warranty, so a one year old would one have the balance remaining.
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I've had a petrol 1999 1.8 and a petrol 2005 1.6 Focus and they're both great cars. The earlier car had the edge in my opinion, it felt like a better handling car and the economy on the newer 1.6 was disappointing (32mpg average) when I was getting 35mpg from the 1.8
For 5k you could get a nice old style Focus estate as well.
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>> For 5k you could get a nice old style Focus estate as well.
Mates rates - you can have mine for £4950 :)
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You could get a three year old Ceed 1.6 petrol for £5K with four years manufacturers warranty to run.
We have a local dealer who specialises in ex Motability cars, they are usually low mileage and relatively cheap.
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How are you finding service costs with the Cee'ed? I assume it now has enough mileage for things like brake pads to need replacing? I am guessing yours will be on around 30-35k now.
Anything to watch for with motability cars? I always possibly wrongly assume the clutch will be worn on those cars.
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My Ceed has only had its first annual service, it cost £120. The car has done about 23K, will have its second service in February, I expect about £180 and the pads are less than half worn, I am a light brake user, (anticipation). :-)
My kids have run a couple of ex Motability cars (from the dealer mentioned above), without problems. I may buy one myself next time as my annual mileage drops off.
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>> done about 23K, will have its second service in February, I expect about £180 and
>> the pads are less than half worn, I am a light brake user, (anticipation). :-)
Not!
Mine are half worn and its done 46K miles.
Either a heavy foot or kia pad are made of swiss cheese
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OK 1/4 worn.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 17 Nov 11 at 15:32
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The Fiesta has had two sets, but to be fair they were probably worn when we bought it, and the second set were put on because the discs had worn so badly.
£120 is very good for a service. I know it is just a glorified oil change but the dealers tried to charge £176 for mine, though I did get them down to £125.
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>> Fords of Winsford have a good reputation in the North West - easy to get to from Manchester as well.
Had a mooch about their site and came across this:
"It is with regret that, due to government age and height restrictions for restrained safety, we are unable to allow ANY CHILD less than 12 years old and under the height of 135cms in the vehicle during the test drive. Please call for further details."
Is this standard practice in the UK now not to allow a family to test drive a (potentially five figure sum) purchase ?
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 17 Nov 11 at 17:54
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>> Is this standard practice in the UK now not to allow a family to test
>> drive a (potentially five figure sum) purchase ?
>>
Covering their backs, also may be insurance problems with carrying passengers illegally.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 17 Nov 11 at 17:59
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Could be an expensive exercise in finding little Freddie/Fiona gets car sick in a particular model after parting with a few £££££'s
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 17 Nov 11 at 18:00
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Betsy the Mondeo came from Fords of Winsford. Apropos of nowt really.
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I know a few people who've bought there over the years Humph - What was your view of them ?
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Pretty good actually. All fairly painless. Guy who "served" me was an older fellow. Not pushy, helpful, polite and knowledgeable. Made me feel comfortable with the transaction. Put it this way I'd hire him if I needed a salesman.
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You've reminded me, I actually went there with a friend - It's a very bland sales technique, no emotion, no banter, no room for negotiation - maybe a company policy. I very nearly fell in love with a Ford Escort RS2000 - nearly new on a J plate - at a huge snip from the new price....I often wondered whether I should have...
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>> Is this standard practice in the UK now not to allow a family to test drive a (potentially five figure sum) purchase ?
It sounds like rear-covering to me, even if you brought your own correct car seats along they might say you can't be trusted to install them correctly in an unfamiliar car or some such claptrap.
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Think that 135cm is the cut off point for kids in car seats so I suspect that its connected
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>> Think that 135cm is the cut off point for kids in car seats
What bits do you cut off to keep them at 135cm?
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If you can hang on until next spring, the VW Up! will be available on a lease type scheme.
In Germany it is 95 Euro over three years and includes everything apart from fuel - so servicing, breakdown and comprehensive insurance. And is not limited to over 25 years.
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>> If you can hang on until next spring, the VW Up! will be available on
>> a lease type scheme.
>>
>> In Germany it is 95 Euro over three years and includes everything apart from fuel
>> - so servicing, breakdown and comprehensive insurance. And is not limited to over 25 years.
>>
Where did you see that ?
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Auto Express... but it won't be as cheap here particularly because they need to sort out insurance costs. Seems very good value to me. Likely to be HP deal or similar over here though.
If it was similar and you can walk away after 3 years that's cheap motoring for 3 years.
Sounds too cheap to me... just quoting what I've read.
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Very nice car for the price, if I was after a Mondeo sized car I would certainly take a look at that. I bet for the £6k it offers a good 20 years of life.
However anything Mondeo sized is too big, a Focus is the biggest size we can manage. We have no off road parking and the neighbours would not be impressed with a two car family owning a Mondeo! In my neck of the woods they are all Guardian reading lefties who think a satellite dish is common and that the car is for use only when strictly necessary.
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Never mind the neighbours - especially if they read the Grauniad. Your Dad, with your help, should get what he wants.
The advantage of the Focus is that there are lots of them around to choose from: a 1.6 petrol sounds a good idea. I too have heard good things about Fords of Winsford.
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Accord is smaller than a Mondeo - more like a biggish Focus, or 3 series.
I found it ok for driving but really tight in the back compared to a Mondeo.
Running costs likely to compare well with a Focus too.
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Let you into a little secret Rats, your neighbours don't give a, well... rats what you or your dad drive. They just don't.
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If I had neighbours like that I'd be tempted to leave an 18 foot caravan hitched to the Shogun all day.
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I was being slightly sarcastic, but when one of neighbours head gasket blew on her 406 estate, we were glad when she traded it for a C3. Makes parking for us all a lot easier. Those extra inches make a big difference on crowded city streets.
I suspect what we really need to do is to go a big car supermarket place, and have a feel for the cars there. It is also hard to convince somebody from the Morris Minor era when at 100k the car was scrap, that these days 100k is nothing.
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I highly recommend the high mileage / supermarket approach. My dad bought a 3yr old, 100k Mondeo mk1 2.0 petrol from a car supermarket back in 97. Straight off a fleet, in a line of similar age, mileage and spec models in a choice of colours, all priced around £4k. Got another 10 yrs / 100k out of it with minimal trouble and expense. No big bills, no major dramas, just odds and ends. Comfortably under £1000 in total outside of routine servicing and tyres over the entire period. Was still reliable enough with nigh on 200k on it to tackle a twice annual trip from Oxford to Inverness and back when my sister was working there.
There were ten or so of these cars, ranging from near immaculate to tatty. All priced the same. Just a question of inspecting carefully and choosing the best one. Reminded me of rummaging through fruit and veg in the supermarket.:-)
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My Sister bought her first Focus from FoW 10 years ago, I accompanied her and the overall experience was perfectly acceptable, the price was good, the car was well prepared and she did about 70K trouble-free miles in it before swapping it for our (aforementioned) later model.
This was a long time ago, however I think they've been trading for many years so this might be an indication of their consistency ?
Personally I wouldn't buy anything with more than 15K miles on it that I didn't know the history of and wouldn't go near anything with 100K miles on it even if it were offered for free.
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>> wouldn't go near anything with 100K miles on it even
>> if it were offered for free.
What is the logic behind that i_c, if you don't mind my asking?
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>> >> wouldn't go near anything with 100K miles on it even
>> >> if it were offered for free.
>>
>> What is the logic behind that i_c, if you don't mind my asking?
There's no logic behind it. Just the usual old fashioned notion that anything over 100K must be knackered. It ain't true anymore.
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>> There's no logic behind it. Just the usual old fashioned notion that anything over 100K
>> must be knackered. It ain't true anymore.
>>
I wonder what the 'dredaded' number is in countries that use kms. Can't be 100k, as that's nothing. 200k is an odd number; so may 250k? Quarter of a million? Sounds high. But that's nearly 160k miles...
Peter
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>> I wonder what the 'dredaded' number is in countries that use kms. Can't be 100k,
>> as that's nothing. 200k is an odd number; so may 250k? Quarter of a million?
>> Sounds high. But that's nearly 160k miles...
160,934.4 km if there's any truth in the 100,000 miles = fit for the knacker's yard view. ;-)
That's how illogical this view is to me. It's a number, and tells you absolutely nothing about the car.
My Volvo S60 had half as much again as this, and it was tighter, sweeter, smoother and more reliable than many examples of cars I know with a tenth of its mileage.
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>> My Volvo S60 had half as much again as this, and it was tighter, sweeter,
>> smoother and more reliable than many examples of cars I know with a tenth of
>> its mileage.
Shame SWMBO won't let you have another one :)
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>> Shame SWMBO won't let you have another one :)
If it weren't for the 20p a mile fuel costs, I'd still have it now. Lovely, lovely car. :-)
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>> If it weren't for the 20p a mile fuel costs, I'd still have it now.
>> Lovely, lovely car. :-)
I like them a lot, especially the rear lights - reminds me of an XJS. They're going for good prices now, there's quite a following for them on the Pistonheads forums. I'd like a D5, a good engine by the sound of it, apparently the earlier Euro 3 engines are much more economical. Also the injectors can be had for a reasonable price now if faulty. Talk me out of it DP :)
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Volvos should be estates. Everyone knows that don't they?
:-)
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>> Volvos should be estates. Everyone knows that don't they?
>> :-)
Bah! Yes if you're talking 740,960 or 850 but I never liked the 2000 on V70 shape. But the interiors on these and the S60's are fantastic.
Last edited by: corax on Mon 21 Nov 11 at 17:35
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>>
>> I wonder what the 'dredaded' number is in countries that use kms. Can't be 100k,
>> as that's nothing. 200k is an odd number; so may 250k? Quarter of a million?
>> Sounds high. But that's nearly 160k miles...
>>
Hong Kong Taxis are typically run up to 1,500,000 Km (at about 10 years old), I was told by a driver recently that they're serviced on average every 20 days, tyres last 6 months and not much is original by the time they're 'retired'.
However, most look pretty 'knackered' even quite early in their service life (I'd guess at less than a year old). They are quite a testament to Toyota though - albeit based on a 20 year old design.
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>>
>> What is the logic behind that i_c, if you don't mind my asking?
>>
My logic is simple, cars (and their major components) have a design life, whether it is 100K miles or 200K miles doesn't really matter.
Whether you view it disdainfully as built-in obsolescence or as pragmatic engineering within a manufacturing cost I don't think many would argue that 100K miles is well into the design life of a car and its components.
I am quite happy to buy a much lower mileage car and run it to more than 100K miles, but in the same way as I probably would not buy a 10 year old washing machine I am not inclined to buy a high mileage car. I can see that such vehicles are cheaper - perhaps because the market perceives them to have used up more of their design life (and therefore value) than similar aged lower-mileage peers ?
If you do a low mileage, can accept or can mitigate any decrease in reliability via your technical/mechanical prowess these may prove economical, surely it's a choice you make based on the risks and affordability ?
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As I mentioned I had a look at a J plated nearly new car there once - that must have been 90/91....
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>> In my neck of the woods they are
>> all Guardian reading lefties who think a satellite dish is common and that the car
>> is for use only when strictly necessary.
>>
I'm afraid that'd be red rag to a bull for me. I'd be buying one of the large "planet killer" SUVs, probably a V8 Disco. Knowing I was winding up the bien pensant types would be worth the running costs.
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>> I'm afraid that'd be red rag to a bull for me. I'd be buying one
>> of the large "planet killer" SUVs, probably a V8 Disco. Knowing I was winding up
>> the bien pensant types would be worth the running costs.
And of course, it would be almost a legal obligation to start and run it for 20 minutes at a time for absolutely no reason whatsoever other than to enjoy the V8 burble.
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>> Auto Express... but it won't be as cheap here particularly because they need to sort
>> out insurance costs. Seems very good value to me. Likely to be HP deal or
>> similar over here though.
>>
>> If it was similar and you can walk away after 3 years that's cheap motoring
>> for 3 years.
>>
>> Sounds too cheap to me... just quoting what I've read.
>>
Probably because it is...makes a great headline but as usual, the devil's in the detail. Here's the link from VW:
www.volkswagen.de/content/medialib/vwd4/de/AngeboteAktionen/Finanzdienstleistungen/upgrade-paket/info-pdf/_jcr_content/renditions/rendition.file/vwb_up_flyer_20111013.pdf
It's over four years, not three. The insurance goes up if bought after 1 Dec. 2011 and U23's pay more for the insurance (30€/month more). The deposit is 1477,50€ and the final balloon payment is 4.801,63€.
Rounding all that up, if you buy before 1st Dec. 2011 and are 23 or over you pay 95€/month for the first two years then it goes up to 141,77€/month for the next two years.
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Thought it sounded too good. So over here it will be a lot more. And for under 25s not worth it.
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The insurance part is a good deal, 475,20€ for four years insurance is very good.
The contract is for 40,000kms over four years so the servicing in reality will be one service maybe two and covers only air, cabin and fuel filters plus spark plugs and oil&filter change. Everything else will be extra including brakes which will no doubt be needed when the car is MOT'd at three years.
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Too small for my dads purpose, but is always something I could consider in a few years time, especially the Skoda 5 door version.
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Isn't a Panda for life Rattle - especially with your mileage!!
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>> Too small for my dads purpose, but is always something I could consider in a few years
>> time, especially the Skoda 5 door version.
You'll need a few bob. Just looked at the VW offer for me as a work hack.
The one in the offer is the stripped out ready to rally version. Radio - extra, spare wheel - extra, two tone horn - extra comes in a pack with height adjustable drivers seat, electric front windows and remote central locking. If you want heated seats then you need to move up the range and spend about 15k€.
For 13,200€ you can get a brand new Punto here with lots of kit as standard and FIAT will give you 3000€ towards the car making it just over 300€ more than a VW UP! minus the insurance offer.
Looks like there's plenty to choose from out there.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 18 Nov 11 at 17:54
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We have a 56 plate Focus Zetec 1.6 ti-VCT.
It's not high mileage (37000) as it's our runabout car but its reliability has been 100%.
Cheap to service, decent drive as well. Good seats with plenty of support and range of adjustments. Suspension on the firm side of soft but compliant and extremely well dampened.
Two points to note:
1. Early MK2's suffered from front wheel arch / sill rust where all the stones fly up. Ford modified this by fitting a plastic sill protector but I'm not sure when the modification was fitted. Retro fit may be possible. Our 56 model has the modification. Fitting front mudflaps worth doing as well.
2. The 1.6 ti-VCT is the best of the 1.6 range, being more punchy than the standard 1.6 with its variable valve timing and is also a bit more economical. However, it does have a cambelt rather than chain if that's important to you. Personally I prefer a belt provided the engine layout is such that a change is easy (it looks OK to do on our engine)
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>>The 1.6 ti-VCT is the best of the 1.6 range, being more punchy than the standard 1.6 with its variable valve timing and is also a bit more economical
This was the model (on a 57 plate) I used to have. Never saw more than 34MPG out of it in a mix of driving. I'm not a hard driver, and in comparision my current (old) Megane (same power/1.6 16V engine) regularly gives over 43MPG...
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Never considered the cambelt problem, my father has only ever owned one car with belt which was the kind which damages the engine. Most my dads cars have been push rods, including his current one.
So did Ford make 1.6 petrol engines with a chain if so I would consider that over a belt. I know chains have issues and can stretch, but the idea of paying £300 every 6 years for a new belt is not appealing.
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>>but the idea of paying £300 every 6 years for a new belt is not appealing.
>>
???
My Ford engine needs a cambelt every 10 years or 100K miles
Has something changed with newer version ???
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Never let the facts get in the way of a reason to worry about something ;-)
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>> the idea of paying £300 every 6 years for a new belt is not appealing
Fairly small beer in the grand scheme of things.
I didn't want to go on about Mondeos, but I bought my ex- ex- other half a 1999 2.0 petrol Ghia in 2003 from a car supermarket with 85,000 miles showing. It was a one-owner direct company car with, as far as I could see, nothing wrong with it at all.
She paid £300 for its second cambelt change in the spring of this year (at 200k miles) and it still runs like a train. Rust'll get it in the end, and that's only through lack of washing it.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Sun 20 Nov 11 at 21:52
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Mondeo is just too big, my dad used to moan the Escort was too big! He prefers small cars and my mother prefers limos. So I thought a Focus sized car is the ideal compromise.
I forgot Ford have now changed the interval to every 10 years, the Escort was 6 or 60k.
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The Mondeo and Focus share the same engine and architecture though, I think enough people have vouched for the marque's longevity on a budget to satisfy you that a Focus is the way to go.
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A 1.8 or 2.0 petrol Focus II would be chain cam.
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Something sounds wrong. The very worst I've recorded is 36mpg. It's usually in the 38 to 42 mpg range. At the moment the display is saying 40.2 mpg. During the fuel blockades in France last autumn I was getting 46mpg but that was driving really carefully on uncrowded roads.
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Well it looks like my idea of a used Focus won't happen. My farther has said he wants a new car, but he wants to do what I did and buy a brand new one. The problem is the budget is £8k and it looks like the 1.2 Panda might be considered.
I am going to suggest the Fabia, i10, i20, Corsa, and for just a few hundred more a Fiesta. My fathers idea is that he is getting old, and he wants this car to be his last ever car and since he has never had a brand new car before (though he has owned a nearly new one, the Punto) the idea of a 3-4 year old Focus does not appeal to him.
The Fiesta is running perfectly, but the rust means it won't pass another MOT, the brakes, suspension and steering are all fine (all been replaced) so I think the plan is to keep running this to as near as the MOT expiry as possible.
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If the Panda is big enough, then the new VW Up! and variants from SEAT and Skoda might be worth considering.
It might be a small car but don't assume it doesn't have the space. There is more space inside than the FIAT 500 (Panda based).
Better still would be a 6 month old car. For £8000 you'd get a bargain.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Fri 25 Nov 11 at 22:45
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Four year old Focus - what model? - carmalade
