Following a new Audi, could have been a 4 5 6 or 7, they all look the same.
He stopped for no apparent reason, then on closer squinting whilst wondering why i saw a glimmer of extra light within the gaudy surround brake lights.
Within the huge rear lights there is a tiny strip indicator lens, which might as well be blanked off for all the use it is when the brake lights are on or in direct sunlight.
I thought VW stopped doing this when Golf 5 finished, they and Passat of the day had silly little indicators which couldn't be seen in sunlight or when the brake lights were used.
You can't see front indicators on many cars from some angles either, especially in bright sunlight, VW again are a major culprit for this
When vehicles are type approved are things like visibility of lights not part of the test procedure.
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twerp...;-)
No such trouble with the Benz lights, very clear, if you use them....
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Specsavers my .......
HAve same problem with several models. VAG are worst but plenty others with indicators concealed under headlight housings and too close to other bulbs.
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Totally agree about Golfs and front indicators being masked by the headlights. There was another VW (might well have been a Golf or Passat) that had LED brake lights which unless you looked at them square on, couldn't hardly be seen as they were very directional.
I also don't like the rear indicators on the Astra-H that hide behind a cloudy light lens. On a bright day they can hardly be seen at all.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 27 Oct 11 at 13:20
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See it quite often these days, usually the indicator is tiny so with any backlighting from surrounding lights, you cant see em.
Shocking that we dont have an EU directive about it really, its a genuine safety issues.
I have noticed some cars, Audi I think, that dim the headlight or DRLs when indicator is on.
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>>Shocking that we dont have an EU directive about it really, its a genuine safety issue.
>>
They are busy people.:-(
Being able to changing normal bulbs without tools should also be addressed.
I fitted Lucas repeater flashers ( as used on Morris 1100s) on the wings of my 1600E back in 1970 as I was not happy with the existing set up.
Other attemps to improve things -
Citroen DS & ID rear indicators at roof level
Triumph 2000 with indicators on the B pillar
It seems that with the removal of indicators in the wings a common alternative is to fit them in the door mirror housing.
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>> Being able to changing normal bulbs without tools should also be addressed.
There is an EU directive requiring car manufacturers to allow bulbs to be changed without special tools.
Unfortunately they get around the current legislation by putting a Get Out of Jail Free sentence in the manual along the lines of "For changing headlight bulb please refer to your local dealer". Or, in the case of the Ford Ka, by having an arrangement which can be changed without special tools, but only if you have hands the size of a 2 year old.
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...There is an EU directive requiring car manufacturers to allow bulbs to be changed without special tools...
I've just changed a headlamp bulb on the CC3.
One screw to remove the light assembly, and no need to unplug the main loom because the cable's long enough to change the bulb with the light assembly resting on top of the engine.
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>>
>> Shocking that we dont have an EU directive about it really, its a genuine safety
>> issues.
>>
>> I have noticed some cars, Audi I think, that dim the headlight or DRLs when
>> indicator is on.
>>
Yep, VAG seem the worst culprits, although there are others, Range Rover for example. I though all recent Audis did the sensible thing, and turned the DRLs off as you mentioned, but saw an 11 plate A4 the other day that didn't, so don't know what they're playing at there.
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(big sigh of relief)
I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who gets bugged by this, it's not something I mention at work because of the risk of suffering the same initial reaction as gb did.
I've had a couple of instances where I've been halfway to ramming someone when I didn't see the brake lights or indicator clearly, thankfully on neither occasion did I give the other driver a "bottle" for not signalling!
I had seriously worried that it was my own concentration that had faltered, because as gb will testify it's even more difficult to see them from the elevated seating position of an HGV cab.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Thu 27 Oct 11 at 20:11
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>> See it quite often these days, usually the indicator is tiny so with any backlighting from surrounding lights
The current shape Corsa's front indicators are almost invisible against the glare of the DRLs directly above them. What makes it worse is that almost all brand new Corsas are driving school cars, and I'm not sure the instructors realise their pupils' signals are being missed.
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I find these new modern very bright LED brake lights can mask the rear indicators in brighter conditions.
Amazed they are actually legal, because when the brake light is on it is so bright you don't notice the indicator.
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>> Amazed they are actually legal
Absolutely agree, just remembered I was overtaken by an A4/A6 estate this morning on the southern, unlit section of the M42 in heavy rain in the dark - lots of trucks at 56mph in lanes 1 & 2, the Audi driver couldn't see any further than the rest of us so they kept applying their brakes every ten seconds or so. The brightness of those things, plus the immediacy of their lighting-up, is hardly conducive to safe, relaxed progress for the traffic following behind.
I assume they're subject to some sort of EU legislation which overrides the British type approval, in the same way as HID headlights are?
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>> I find these new modern very bright LED brake lights can mask the rear indicators
>> in brighter conditions.
>>
>> Amazed they are actually legal, because when the brake light is on it is so
>> bright you don't notice the indicator.
>>
Do people still indicate ?
I thought that's why they painted arrows on the road now, to save electrickery.
Audi saw fit to build in some extra controls to dim the day running lights while indicating. Other manufacturers just didn't put the DRL's next to the indicator in the first place.
On the subject of DRL's when Volvo put them in, during the day you had day running lights, at night you had normal lights it was one or the other, when did day (clue's in the name) running lights become 24/7 running lights ?
Last edited by: gmac on Thu 27 Oct 11 at 22:30
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It is always posh cars too, on my Panda for example FIAT have taken care to make sure every light is highly visible, for some reason a lot of German designed cars (I am including Opal in this) seem to forget anything about practicality.
I also find these LED lights dazzling at night if they are stopped at lights with the brake pedal down because they are too lazy to change in neutral and apply the handbrake (a practice I do, and my mates are make fun of me for using the handbrake).
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Sadly the foot-on-pedal habit has become so universal that I'm pleasantly surprised when I notice anyone else doing it. They can't all be automatics either; the DSG Skoda I drove this week would strain against the handbrake in D, but required a foot on the brake to get into or out of N - understandable if not commendable that drivers don't bother. I presume instructors still teach handbrake-neutral in manuals but that it's just another thing, like signalling and lane discipline, that drivers can't be bothered with.
Given that, how hard would it be to design brake lights that illuminate only when the vehicle is moving? BMW a while ago came up with brake lights whose brightness indicated the intensity of braking. It's a short step from there to lights that go out when there's no retardation at all.
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>> On the subject of DRL's when Volvo put them in, during th day you had
>> day running lights, at night you had normal lights it was one or the other,
>> when did day (clue's in the name) running lights become 24/7 running lights ?
Many (although not all) manufacturers' DRLs do seem to be dimmed or switched off when the normal lights are in use. This can make for some interesting displays when a car with auto lights goes under the bridge at my nearest motorway junction, as the inner pair of lights (as I noticed on a Golf yesterday) switched to the outer pair when the light sensor decided it had gone dark outside.
Re: Dazzling multi-LED brakelights - Humph and PeterS, I trust you'll both be sparing the retinas of the poor so-and-sos behind you in traffic jams? ;)
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>> Re: Dazzling multi-LED brakelights - Humph and PeterS, I trust you'll both be sparing the
>> retinas of the poor so-and-sos behind you in traffic jams? ;)
>>
It's an interesting question - I hadn't really thought about it! Though I do try to avoid traffic jams, so hopefully it'll be OK...
My old MB e class had what was called SBC hold - a sharp prod on the foot brake kept the brakes applied, but since the pedal wasn't depressed I assume that the brake lights went out. Perhaps the computer kept them on anyway - I can't remember?
What I do remember from the handbook was that if a rear light failed the car would switch to using one of the others , if you see what I mean. If a rear brake light failed it'd use a fog light, or something like that...
I'm not sure I'm comfortable with the brake lights not working when the car is stationary though - if I'm at the back of a traffic queue I'll always keep my foot on the brake until there's another car behind me before switching to the handbrake - gives a bit more notice to the car behind if they're not paying attention...
Peter
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I thought of that last bit after I posted, Peter, and I do the same. But you could make it possible with an override facility - say a second touch on the pedal after the handbrake was applied.
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A lot of manufacturers have now resorted to stringing out their LED DRLs like fairy lights and it looks ridiculous. Especially noticeable on Mercs, Audi etc. These are also extremely bright (no bad thing) but have no focused light and so it is glaring and quite distracting even in bright daylight.
My Golf MK6 has filament bulbs, 15w each for its DRLs and they're much more restful but still useful.
However LED braking lights are another thing altogether and can blot out directional lights. There seems to be no legal requirements as to where or how bright these things can be, which is most strange considering all the other car regs. we have.
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>> A lot of manufacturers have now resorted to stringing out their LED DRLs like fairy
>> lights and it looks ridiculous.
I think the award for the most annnoying DRLs goes to one of the Citroens. Can't remember which model, but they're vertically mounted on the edge of the front bumper.
Far too bright and glary for my liking.
Also any DRLs that are mounted where the front fog lights would normally be. Looks like the numpties are driving round with their front fogs on all the time.
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...I think the award for the most annnoying DRLs goes to one of the Citroens...
Agreed.
i think the beast of which we speak is the DS3:
tinyurl.com/68o4wab
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>> i think the beast of which we speak is the DS3:
That's the kiddie.
For some reason I initially thought it was the C3, but when I looked at the pictures of one, it didn't look right, hence why I didn't mention it earlier.
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>> Re: Dazzling multi-LED brakelights - Humph and PeterS, I trust you'll both be sparing the
>> retinas of the poor so-and-sos behind you in traffic jams? ;)
>>
Having picked the car up this afternoon I can confirm that, when I'm driving at least, retinas will be spared. It's fitted with one of those stop/start eco systems, so when the car is braked to a halt the engine stops. It also has 'direct select', which means a gear column gear shift lever (more of a stalk really). A quick nudge puts it into park, and then foot off the brake which extinuguishs the brake lights :-) Works fine at traffic lights - less so in stop start traffic I think, but it's better than nothing!
.
Peter
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>>which means a gear column gear shift lever (more of a stalk really).
That's interesting. My car is also an auto but it has a conventional centre console mounted lever and flappy paddles on the steering wheel. ( which I haven't got around to trying out yet No stop / start either as far as I know.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 3 Nov 11 at 16:53
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Stop / start button is labelled 'eco' and is next to the heated seats / parktronic buttons on the centre console, if that helps. You get a lovely green 'eco' on the central display thing too :-)
I think MB changed the spec a little while ago. The 7 speed 'box that was only available on the 6 cylinder cars was made the standard option (if that makes sense...) on all engines. Prior to that the 4 cylinder cars came with a 5 speed box. As far as I can make out 7 speed box has a column shift, the 5 a conventional one.
Not sure why a diesel car needs 7 speeds though...and you certainly notice it's a diesel with the stop/start gubbins kicking in all the time!! Can't be doing the starter/battery any good - might deactive and see if it makes any difference :-)
Other niggles - car was delivered without the satnav being configured for the UK; poor I thought. Floor mars were not included either - they tried to charge me £80!! It's been years since I bought a car that didn't come with mats from the factory - it hadn't even occured to me that they'd be extra! Soon got that knocked off the invoice though!! Also not keen on the 'designo' burr walnut trim.
Love the intelligent lighting stuff, and it's certainly good to drive -doesn't feel it's size. I can see it being great on longer journeys - so far it's only done 50 miles!!
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Nope, no "eco" button on mine. Not sure how many gears it has. Enough would be my view :-) Go a bit don't they ?
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Don't know what you mean Humph :whistles: Not even done 100 miles yet; far to soon to have taken it anywhere near the redline - haven't you read what might happen ;-) Definitely haven't tried the kick-down response, or the flappy paddles. Haven't even tried hard acceleration on damp leaves to see what happens. No, none of that... :-)
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> LED brake lights
And other lamps too. Blinding seen directly on, invisible from even a fairly slight angle. Daft.
They won't do anything aboout it though, 'cos LEDs use less electricity and the car generates something like 0.00000000000000000002% less CO2 as a result.
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It's me that's breathing a sigh of relief, as i thought i would only get ridiculed.
Countless times i've only realised at the last minute the car i'm about to cross/overtake/pull out on/wait for, is indeed indicating but i haven't seen the indicator hidden inside the headlight assembly or tiny in comparison to the frankly silly (agreed Oldgit) rear light assemblies now sprouting.
A slight aside whilst i'm in light rant mode.;)
How do you persuade average driver to make the effort to check the lights work, i see far too many motorcycles approaching me at night (i'm on nights so see more than enough) only to find it's a car or van with one side completely unlit.
Don't see many trucks any more with lights out, luckily at the front end there's usually some auxilliary fog lights can be used if headlight bulbs blow during a trip.
Ditto the rear end, i notice many new designs now feature multiple bulbs each side, is that so hopefully both sides will still be lit when the lights get checked for the first time at service or first MOT whichever comes first..;)
A few more patrol cars would be handy, pull 'em over and give the car a roadside once over...they used to do this at one time, maybe we learned years ago it's best to keep your car in a condition to pass the ''traffic officer looking for a customer test''?
I haven't seen this being done for a long time, though i have seen officers peering under the bonnet with baseball hatted types hovering about, presumably looking for chassis numbers etc.
edit if time...the MAN's i drive turn a bright fog type light on the side you are indicating, useful feature as it illuminates a dark road you are turning into, however it also means at night that you lose the peripheral usefulness of others approaching lights...eg undertakers when you are trying to manoeuver left.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Fri 28 Oct 11 at 12:29
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I've put LED brake lights on my vintage car. And before anyone gets upset - the car never had brake lights until I fitted them.
Agreed with the OP, current light design seems to be all about 'style' and naff all about visibility.
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...I've put LED brake lights on my vintage car...
I thought you just wave your arm up and down outside the window - if it has one.
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Window? What's one of those? (Also roof and doors).
I do make arm signals, but I get fed up with the number of drivers who don't seem to understand them.
No indicators either, and until 1950 something when the law was changed, car only had one rear light.
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>> I do make arm signals, but I get fed up with the number of drivers
>> who don't seem to understand them.
>>
That's because they're no longer taught hand signals when learning to drive. Wouldn't be the first time I've had a car pull up behind me when I've used the "right arm slowly up and down" signal to indicate that I'm pulling to the side of the road when on a motorbike, driver thought I was flagging him to stop!
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I live very close to a junction off to my left. I also give this arm signal, if there's another vehicle close behind, as I pull up before reversing into my drive (how many do that!).
I'm amused when they stop behind me.
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>>the MAN's I drive turn a bright fog type light on the side you are indicating, useful feature as it illuminates a dark road you are turning into
>>
However my son was recently stopped as he turned into an urban side road to be faced by a police mini bus ( full of the lads ).
The accused him of using foglights illegally. They said he had switched his fog lights on.
He had only recently got his SLK and was unaware that it was an automatic "feature" and he had not manually switched his nearside fog light on,
The boys were not "traffic " and must have been bored but son who is pretty law abiding was not amused at their aggressive attitude.
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My old Roomie had them, used to get the locals excited when it lit up....
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Merc does it, I think. More lights than Blackpool anyway.
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I'm just shocked that an audi driver was indicating ;-)
Last edited by: Snakey on Mon 31 Oct 11 at 13:09
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>> I'm just shocked that an audi driver was indicating ;-)
>>
They know their customers so visible indicators will be low priority...;)
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Having seen this thread I happened to follow an Audi (A5 convertible) out of Northampton on Saturday.
Rear indicators were quite bright but lens was a letterbox shape and a very small part of the light fixture. OK from a car in daylight but with rears & brakes on and viewed from truck cab height it wouldn't have had mich contrast.
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Slight drift from the original thread but I've noticed how badly lit cars are from the side.
The other evening I was returning from work on the pushbike when I was aware of a car turning round in the road ahead of me. 3 cars had just passed me and I honestly thought the first car hadn't spotted it and was going to T-bone the one turning. It was side on and with its dark grey colour was very difficult to spot. There was little side light emitting from the headlights or tail lights.
Got me thinking why makers don't have some form of reflective side trim or window surround.
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There was little side light emitting from the headlights or>> tail lights.
I always liked my American cars for that, invariably still fitted with the orange side marker lights front and red side markers at the rear.
Volvo's used to have these US style orange side markers, i rememeber them well on S40's particularly, in the bumper or just behind, and some other models too but can't remember which.
Are they still standard fitment?
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I'm surprised at how many of these 'side turn indicators' are so invisible from the side. Those on my cars are the old fashioned sort that are an additional light set in the wing. Those on the DOOR mirrors can sometimes be useless from the side.
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Volvos used to have these US style orange side markers ... Are they still standard fitment?
Not at the front. My S60 has a red one in each rear cluster, visible only from the side. The car obviously doesn't consider it important, since when one bulb failed recently, the computer didn't bother to tell me about it.
Curiously, the bulb turns out to be a 10W one, whereas the front parking lights are only 5W. Maybe it's brighter to compensate for the red lens.
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You'll be pleased to hear that this problem has been address with lorries and from 2012 they have to have High Viz tape and markers along the sides, up the sides and along the tops, as well as all around the back so you won't be able to miss us.
I have also heard a rumour that this is coming in for cars before next winter;)
Pat
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To my mind, the markers on lorries in the 70s and early 80s made more sense. Nice white and red markers so if you only saw the marker, you still knew the direction of intended travel.
First time I saw a amber marker, I thought it was a stuck indicator and reacted accordingly.
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>> To my mind, the markers on lorries in the 70s and early 80s made more
>> sense. Nice white and red markers so if you only saw the marker, you still
>> knew the direction of intended travel.
Couldn't agree more SP, it went out the door together with the third trailer braking system in the interests of harmonisation, about the same we we got better safety by going from a 12.5 hour working day to a 15 hour day, progress.
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GB, I'm convinced you're stuck in a time warp:)
I remember those 70's & 80's when we could only do a 12.5 hour day *LEGALLY*
I also remember being told I had to do very much more, every day, or I knew where the gate was.
Pat
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Time warp?, probably, there were cowboy outfits and proper hauliers in those days too.
I was lucky enough to work for the latter mostly, if i unfortunately ended up with one of the former i soon got me back side out again.
It wasn't a free for all, for there was always the danger of a silent check should you try to overdo it, and the DOT officers just like VOSA now were nobody's fools, they knew who to look at.
There's still a way some get round the 48 hour average week, so don't try to make out all is now rosy, it's called POA, or for some ''no english'', whereas some companies do the right thing and pay their drivers 'stand down'.
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I'm not trying to make out it's all rosy now at all, GB, but it's a damn sight better than it was then for the vast majority of us.
The 'Ministry' as we knew them then, knew who to look for, but a lot of firms were left alone...ever wonder why?
The Unions were no better, they turned a blind eye if donations were made into union funds.
The 'old days' are gone and thank goodness, they will never be back as they were.
Pat
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Why is it a lot of lorries have tiny rear lights on the trailers, and none have a third brake light that seem to be fitted to 99.9% of modern cars and most modern vans? It's not as if there isn't enough room on the back of a trailer to fit bigger lights.
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I agree VXFan, the area of lights in comparison to the size of a truck is very small. I know trucks are larger and if you can't see one then you probably shouldnt be driving but when the back is dirty and two tiny lights with the output of a geriatric gloworm are barley visible or twisted downwards having been whacked then they can be hard to see.
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>> Why is it a lot of lorries have tiny rear lights on the trailers, and
>> none have a third brake light that seem to be fitted to 99.9% of modern
>> cars and most modern vans?
Most truck lights are high enough to be seen, and most newer stuff is quite well lit, with multiple bulbs either side.
Extra brake lights?, well it could be a bit of Darwinism i suppose, you don't see many people ramming artic trailers up the back, if they do they don't usually do it again, self preservation probably, they do however bully tailgate and ram small cars up the back regularly despite high level lights.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Thu 3 Nov 11 at 13:58
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Are you concious of being tailgated more in the wee Citroen GB? I used to swear that I suffered it more in our old Ka. A little bit in the Qashqais but so far not at all in the E Class
Ergo, are tailgaters size-ist?
:-)
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>> Ergo, are tailgaters size-ist?
>>
Without a doubt, and van and some 4x4 drivers are by far the worst culprits in my experience if you are driving something they can bully....some truck drivers too which grates.
They try it in my old Benz, but i've developed a way over the years of sensing by peripheral vision what's behind whilst appearing to never look in any of my mirrors, it seems to unnerve them if they can't make eye contact, they assume i haven't a clue they are there so the pushing is ineffective.
I don't hold anyone up but i do leave a comfortable distance 'tween me and the vehicle in front, more so if i'm considering overtaking, some people can't stand it if you follow another vehicle at a normal space.
Little Citroen, no probs there, if they can keep up with SWM they're doing pretty well anyway ..;)
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No science here, just years of observation, I find the worst tailgaters are ( sorry girls but you know who you are ! ) young women in small cars and young men with sticky out ears. I wonder what it is about the ears?
:-)
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You probably don't get tailgated in that Benz cos they can't keep up.:-)
Young women, goodness yes possibly worse than van drivers.
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The M5 crash had me thinking about this.
Driving a truck has obvious advantages of vision, but this applies to all drivers.
There have been times when travelling on busy multi lane roads when a lot of modern LED lit cars are travelling in all lanes that it's become apparent to me that these lights do not give following drivers the same perception of distance that old style lights do.
Some light patterns give a sort of flicker effect too, and some are so bright that they could easily be the brake or rear fog lights of filament bulbs.
Whether or not this had any bearing on the M5 disaster i haven't a clue, and mentioning such a thing will inevitably get comments such as get your eyes tested.
The thing is in heavy multi lane traffic we are concentrating mainly on our immediate area to the front and beyond and regular observations sometimes peripheral vision of whats going on around us.
I don't find that quite as easy to do any more, with the flicker effect of DRLs, rear LEDs, the odd front and rear fog lights being used where they are not needed, where once a filament stop light stood out, quite possibly in another lane some several cars ahead, that early alert doesn't happen any more.
In the war of i've got more/better lights than you have things got less safe because we are now blinded by too much light of the wrong sort.
Has anyone else found this.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Sun 6 Nov 11 at 12:19
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Yes, I agree with you, especially at twilight or daybreak, both bikes are fitted with LED rear obligatory brake lights. All the signal and position lights are LED on the GS - they are far too binary for me, prefer old fashioned bulbs.
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Agree. The only good thing to have happened in rear lighting in recent years was the High Level brake light.
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I hadn't noticed it so much in the car but LED bike lights are a mixed blessing.
On the positive side they're much brighter than filaments and battery life is measured in days not hours.
But they have a narrower light splay so that, unless well designed with multiple LED units they're difficult to see from an angle. Following a bike on a bendy road andyou'll find the lights fade from view as it enters a curve. Flashing fronts get attention but a string of them on a city road and they're like fairy lights, quite a struggle to sort out the spacings and relative speeds of the apraoching peloton.
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Agree gb and some of the bigger vehicles are the worst offenders with the rear LEDs.
What immediately springs to mind are the new Ford Galaxy and Audi A6 which have what seems like a foot and a half of fairy lights on either side of the vehicle running in towards the centre. Why ?
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I hadn't noticed the dimness before. I was sat behind a VW at lights this morning. The Sun was behind us and it was some time before I saw he was actually indicating a right turn.
Looked a very pale pink colour, the brake lights weren't on at the time.
Ted
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Just got back from work, been on unlit A roads all night, 80% of the way.
I twigged something else tonight as i was paying particular attention to vehicle and surroundings visibilty and trying to judge distances, and the differences between LED and normally lit cars.
When cars with normal lights came by, i watched them gradually gaining ground away from me, when some LED lit ones came by partciulalrly Audi i found it difficult to judge the distance of the car from me as it gained ground.
Then i realised another difference, this one is possibly why these cars especially when numerous are difficult to distance and judge, you can't see past them.
When you follow at any distance a normal car, you can see the back lights quite plainly, they are bright enough for perfect safety, and importantly you can see past the car and see the light dispersed to the sides by his headlights and can judge from several hundred yards behind what lies ahead, in a queue of vehicles you can effectively see many hundreds of yards.
This is not possible with Audi's massive and too bright LEDs even on side light alone, they fill the rear of the car with light and the visual effect extends beyond the sides, and being LED it sort of flickers in your eyes (i don't know the term for this), the result of all this is that you cannot see anything that his lights are illuminating to the sides of his vehicle.
Try and picture that situation when there are dozens of similarly lit vehicles ahead of you on all lanes on an unlit motorway as these vehicles become more common, then imagine an emergency braking situation, all these cars brake lights appear, that's fine but you will be so blinded by the over the top amount of bright red light that you simply can't see what the problem is ahead.
I believe this is something that needs looking at by those who know what they are doing.
Sorry its so long winded but its not a two sentence explanation, please make a note if i haven't bored you to death and see if you find the same.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 7 Nov 11 at 01:55
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>> Try and picture that situation when there are dozens of similarly lit vehicles ahead of
>> you on all lanes on an unlit motorway as these vehicles become more common, then
>> imagine an emergency braking situation, all these cars brake lights appear, that's fine but you
>> will be so blinded by the over the top amount of bright red light that
>> you simply can't see what the problem is ahead.
>>
Emergency braking situations should be no problem, with all the flashing rear brake lights and indicators going at different rates it'll be like driving down the Strip, Las Vegas.
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>
>> This is not possible with Audi's massive and too bright LEDs even on side light
>> alone, they fill the rear of the car with light and the visual effect extends
>> beyond the sides, and being LED it sort of flickers in your eyes (i don't
>> know the term for this),
Yes they do flicker, its the way they are powered by the car electronics. Its set to be a frequency faster than the brain (not the eye) can distinguish, but some people can see it, normally out of your peripheral vision as you visually "sweep" the scene.
I see it, but a lot of people dont. I also see the wires in quick clear windscreens. may be linked.
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>>>I see it, but a lot of people dont.
It was the same with CRT TVs running 50hz in the UK... the ones we have watched most of our life. They actually flicker but we were so used to it most never noticed. American visitors though often noticed the flicker as their system at home was 60hz.
Proof that this was conditioning in UK brains could be found by watching TV standing on your head when the flicker could be clearly seen as it was going the opposite way to your previous brain conditioning experience.
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Proof that this was conditioning in UK brains could be found by watching TV standing on your head when the flicker could be clearly seen .
Needs to be replicated in a vehicle to test the theory
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>> Yes they do flicker, its the way they are powered by the car electronics. Its
>> set to be a frequency faster than the brain (not the eye) can distinguish, but
>> some people can see it, normally out of your peripheral vision as you visually "sweep"
>> the scene.
I had that problem with CRT monitors. Always had to re-set the refresh above 75hz or go home with a headache. Mot an issue withe TV though.
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I'm getting better at remembering trivia again ! This was the subject of research some years ago.
staff.psychology.bangor.ac.uk/Members/pss03d/Bayliss_ACP2.pdf
and
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/north_west/6502553.stm
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I could not agree more, shame no-one seems to be listening.
Ferdinand Porsche - Form follows function.
Anon current car designer - To heck with function - if it looks cool, go with it.
Last edited by: Slidingpillar on Mon 7 Nov 11 at 14:39
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Well recalled RP.
Interesting, should have been followed up in much greater depth.
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Back in July 2008 - I was driving the wife's MK5 Golf GTi - I was waiting and indicating to turn right at a main road junction with the minor leading to my then pile. It was a quiet summer's day, good weather, dry. The road has 1/2 mile visibility to where I was waiting to turn. I indicated by habit as I knew how fast cars travelled in this 50mph limit. I glanced in my mirror to see a yob braking so hard behind me that there was smoke from his tyres and I'll swear to this day that the passenger's eyes were out on stalks - she was definitely screaming anyway. All this info was gathered in a microsecond - I had two choices, await my fate, hoping he'd cross onto the verge or floor it, as it happened the car was in first gear, so I floored it and the Golf went off like a scalded cat - thank goodness it was a proper performance petrol car......I put it down to crap driving from the idiot in the Honda and the invisible indicators on the Golf, especially when the brake lights were on.....very near miss.
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>> No science here, just years of observation, I find the worst tailgaters are ( sorry
>> girls but you know who you are ! ) young women in small cars and
>> young men with sticky out ears. I wonder what it is about the ears?
>> :-)
They think they are the heir to the throne?
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indicator lights you can't see - Runfer D'Hills
