Pics here. www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/259573/
(F30 of course, not E90)
I'm sure that not everyone will like it, but very much like the look of it. It's a tad sharper than the outgoing model, and the interior looks much more up-market.
It's intriguing that there will be a 4-wheel drive offered, though not sure when.
I still love my Audi, but, hey, I can appreciate the opposition! :-)
Last edited by: Londoner on Fri 14 Oct 11 at 16:47
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Not really keen on it, but it may grow on me. I'm sure it will sell by the bucketloads regardless.
The 4x4 option isn't really a surprise, IMHO. I wonder how many angry BMW owners resolved themselves to sell up and buy an Audi whilst their back wheels were spinning futilely in the snow last winter?
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I thought that 4WD versions were available for the current versions (and some of the earlier ones too; certainly the E30 and E46 variant), but only in LHD. Each new launch triggers a further will they / wont they discussion about availibility in the UK and, to date, none of them have actually gone on sale...
TBH I prefer driving rear wheel drive cars than front wheel drive in the snow, though most of the ones I've 'owned' have been 'sensible' non sport versions. The best of the lot was the old 325i (E30) on 15" wheels. My A4 on 18" wheels is feeble in the snow :-(
Peter
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It'll be interesting to see what happens to that centre console in a RHD car. The MMI controller positioning looks odd for RHD.
I do like the fact they've kept the water temp. and fuel guages out of the two main dials. The boxers nose in profile might grow on me tempting me to the dark side.
I do wonder where AutoCar get there text from?:
"but the main improvement is a 2mpg economy lift and a significant emissions cut from the automatic version of 3g/km, now down to 169gkm — a number that used to be typical for a two-litre diesel powered family car."
Press pack cut 'n paste maybe ?
How far back are they going ? I've got a seven year old 2.4litre diesel which is a late '90s design the emissions of which aren't that high.
Last edited by: gmac on Fri 14 Oct 11 at 17:11
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Like it a lot. Love the nose treatment, and the interior is a step up over the existing E90. If it drives as well as the E90, it'll be a winner.
Sadly, it's probably going to arrive too late to make my next company car. Eligible to order a new one in November, which means it will probably be another E90 unless something new appears on the list between now and then. Either that, or I might be able to hold off until Feb, but its unlikely.
That said, I have really "bonded" with the E90. The prospect of three years in another, this time with a gutsy diesel under the bonnet isn't exactly a hardship, wanting the latest and greatest aside.
I hope they've improved the reliability though. My E90 has had far too many problems for a car of its age and mileage.
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DP, maybe the order book for this cat will be open in November? You never know. Depends if the car becomes available to order or is delivered for the suggested 2012 date I guess.
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I think you will be able to officially order the car in January. Not sure though, with the F10 5 Series BMW actually started accepting orders and building the cars 3 months earlier than originally planned. I also considered waiting for the F30 as I have just ordered a 335d as a company car, but BMW are offering unbeatable leasing deals on the present models.
I've seen some F30s running about at customers I work with. The interior is really nice and a definite improvement on the E90, the ambience in the higher spec ones is similar to the new 5. To be fair though, the press photos show models with every option under the sun. As ever, the entry level ones are not quite so nice.
Interesting that BMW decided to stick with a mechanical handbrake in the new model, rather than an electrical one like on the 5 Series and the new X3.
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Just got the car list and the F30 320d EfficientDynamics is on it. Now negotiating with the fleet guys to see if I can keep mine for a couple of months extra, or take another pool car in the interim.
Looked at the Audi A4 which is also on there in 140PS TDIe SE trim. Lovely looking car, but just sitting in the thing put me off it. The clutch pedal is in line with the steering column, forcing you to sit in the seat with your feet canted noticeably to the right to operate the pedals. How a company like Audi could get such a fundamental thing wrong beggars belief. Gorgeous interior and a nice engine, but I couldn't get comfy in it, so the rest doesn't really matter.
Passat CC is also on there, and will be my choice if the 320d doesn't come off. Lovely car both inside and out.
BMW's CO2 / BHP / performance / BIK combination is seemingly a generation ahead of the competition though. 0-62 in 8 secs and 109g/km CO2 is an astonishing combination. OK, so we all know it won't do 68.9 mpg in the real world, but they've managed to get it on paper and approved which is the main consideration.
Cheers
DP
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>> Passat CC is also on there, and will be my choice if the 320d doesn't come off. Lovely car both inside and out.
The 170PS diesel Passat CC is taxed at the same BIK rate as the 140PS, emitting only 4g/km of CO2. And it is a far more flexible engine and very refined.
I wonder if the BMW 3 series on my available list were so cheap because they were the outgoing model? I wonder what the F30 will be like. I could have got the Efficient Dynamics 320d and had a reasonable amount of money back per month (before tax).
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Whilst catching up on car magazines (on holiday for two weeks), read the preview of the new 3 series. Looks a lot better than the current one.
When I was in the early deliberation phase for cars I went to a BMW dealer and sat in a 5 and 3 series. Both towards the top of the range. The 5 series felt expensive and a nice place to be. The 3 series felt cheap and cramped.
The new 3 series looks to be a smaller 5 series. DP might need to get a temp allocation because it's not out until March I think.
Good news too is there are about 6 models with emissions under the magic 120g/km. Although some of the benefits for BIK change next year.
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Spent today running round in an employee's company E90 320d whilst my 5 Series was having its winter tyres fitted. The 320d is almost 3 years old with 120,000km on the clock and about as basic as you can get - not even fitted with alloy wheels. Must admit I really enjoyed driving it.
The interior is a bit bleak with only a basic navigation system to distract the driver, and it will certrainly never be accused of being "tardis like" in a comparison test. But everything still works with that finely oiled BMW feeling despite the regular driver apparently living in it given the amount of grime and rubbish distributed around the place.
Best of all though is the handling, more agile than the 5 coupled with that smooth (for a diesel) and punchy 184PS engine making it a real pleasure to punt around the roads of the Black Forest.
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Bagpuss, I think that your very fair assessment of the E90 illustrates clearly why keen drivers should ALWAYS consider the BMW option. It also shows why even "German is Best"-type people like myself (who is the opposite of being a keen driver) are left rather cold by them. (Especially since my particular example was not "finely oiled" either).
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>>. But everything still works with that finely oiled BMW feeling despite the regular driver
>> apparently living in it given the amount of grime and rubbish distributed around the place.
Same applies to my current, near 3 yr old, 46k 318i. Not big mileage, but clearly had a pretty hard life as well. It still drives like a new car. Zero slack or slop in the steering or gearchange, and a nice, mechanical feel to the controls. Even minor controls like the column stalks feel robust and still operate with that crispness of a new car. Not a squeak or rattle either.
Sadly, mine has had some mechanical issues. Engine software bugs, oxygen sensor failure, fuel pump issues and the odd, spurious hesitation that has never really gone away. Second gear also whines loudly, although the shift quality is still very precise (if heavy). But it remains a genuinely lovely car to drive, despite being a tad underpowered. The chassis is an object lesson in balance and composure.
Another thing - you sit "in" a 3-series, rather than "on" it. The seating position is quite low, and the high transmission tunnel / centre console and slightly high window line give a real sense of being down low and part of the car.
Lots of little touches, but they make for a brilliant drivers car. I am converted.
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I believe the prices start much higher than the one's they replace?
Additionally, I'll never buy any BMW that insists on the stupid seat height adjustment it adopts for those that don't specify electrically adjustable ones. I remember having to virtually levitate myself whils pulling on a release lever!!!!!!!!!!!!! Terrible, simply terrible. Also I expect they are clad with Runflats as well, which is another reason to steer well clear.
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>> >>. But everything still works with that finely oiled BMW feeling ........Sadly, mine has had some mechanical issues. Engine software bugs, oxygen sensor failure, fuel pump
>> issues and the odd, spurious hesitation that has never really gone away. Second gear also
>> whines loudly, although the shift quality is still very precise (if heavy). But it remains
>> a genuinely lovely car to drive, despite being a tad underpowered. The chassis is an
>> object lesson in balance and composure.
Doesn't sound to me like a reliable well-built car with that litany of faults!! Just how forgiving and in denial can you be?
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>> Doesn't sound to me like a reliable well-built car with that litany of faults!! Just
>> how forgiving and in denial can you be?
>>
Did I say it was reliable?
What I said was, it feels good, and drives like new, which it does on both counts.
I got it as a pool car with 42,000 miles on the clock. It has had seven shades beaten out of it. But it is still cracking to drive.
And on your other point, the 320d EfficientDynamics I will be ordering doesn't have runflats. And neither can I say I find the seat height adjustment remotely difficult. The seat height gets adjusted every time SWMBO drives it, and back again when I drive it. Neither of us have an issue with it.
The drive alone is good enough for me to order an F30 "blind".
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>> The drive alone is good enough for me to order an F30 "blind".
>>
Aaargh! I would NEVER buy a car that I hadn't test driven. Seriously, it makes you sound like a fanboy.
Do you remember when the latest BMW 5-series came out? Practically all reviewers commented that it was a great car IF YOU SPECCED IT RIGHT.
"What Car" says:
"On standard suspension, the Five’s ride and handling are nowhere near as good as they should be. However, you can add Variable Damper Control to four-cylinder models and Adaptive Drive to six-cylinder models, and these options transform the car. The ride becomes more cosseting and the handling sharper. The options aren’t cheap, but they’re essential. "
www.whatcar.com/car-reviews/bmw/5-series-saloon/full-review/25928-2
I'm sure the next 3-er will be the same.
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Ordered my last company 5 Series and my next company car (a 335d) without test drives. Spent lots of time with the configurator thingy on the BMW website juggling options and choosing alloy wheels, but somehow couldn't be bothered with test drives.
This is in marked contrast to trying to choose a car for my wife which involves trudging round dealers, test drives and indecision. Despite the fact that this car will do a 10th the mileage of my company car and will probably cost around an 8th of the price.
Sounds inconsistent, but I think with medium saloons I pretty much know what I'm getting, having driven so many. BMW - wonderful handling and firm ride. Mercedes - nice ride, not so good handling. Audi - dodgy handling and horrible ride. Up until going with my wife to Hyundai, Fiat and Suzuki showrooms, I'd never so much as set foot in an i10, Panda or Splash, let alone driven one. In the case of the Splash, by the way, mightily impressed.
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>> Audi - dodgy handling and horrible ride.
If by that you mean understeery handling then yes, but the upside is extremely stable high speed cruising in all weathers, being so nose heavy. Both of my Audis had this trait, the Audi 80 having a wooden ride though. I haven't driven a newish Audi, so I can't comment on the ride quality now, but the Germans don't tend to change much.
I'm sure Londoner is better placed to comment. And Alex Polizzi (aka the Hotel Inspector). The A5 suits her down to the ground :)
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Indeed, describing Audi as having "dodgy handling" is like describing the silver medalist in the 100 meters race as "slow", merely because he failed to win the Gold!
My 3-series was clearly sharper in terms of handling than my A5, but the Audi is good by any standard. On the other hand, as corax rightly points out, the Audi is a very stable cruiser (particularly in the wet). I tried five different 3-series cars and they were all skittish and needed frequent small adjustments when cruising. I found this both tiring and mildly irritating.
As for the ride, there is no comparison. An Audi with SE suspension is far more comfortable than a BMW SE with runflats. (Although on UK roads a BMW Sport is better than an Audi S-line, IMO).
BMW and Audi are both quality companies who make very good cars. What is it about BMW drivers that make them so anti-Audi? I think that they perceive them as a threat and attack what they most fear.
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>> BMW and Audi are both quality companies who make very good cars. What is it
>> about BMW drivers that make them so anti-Audi? I think that they perceive them as
>> a threat and attack what they most fear.
To be honest I just don't "get" Audis, though judging by the sales figures I'm clearly in a minority.
I've driven a lot of them and just not found them appealing. Only one I've liked was a TT rental car I had a few months back which was amazing to drive, with responsive handling and a revvy 2.0T petrol engine. Oh, and the A2 but they haven't built that for years.
The other end of the scale was an A6 2.0TDI that I had the use of 18 months or so ago, when doing a long term project in Hamburg. It was an estate and looked really good in metallic black paint. But I found it ill-handling, with a poor ride and unresponsive CVT gearbox. It was also seriously enormous on the outside, without any apparent benefits from the fwd layout to the interior space, which made it a pain to park. Not helped by having the turning circle of a container ship, again a legacy of the fwd layout.
I looked at the A5 3.0TDI when I was choosing my company car, but it just didn't light my fire. The interior on the new A6 is nice though, especially the multifunctional display between the instruments and the touchpad thingy in the centre console.
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What is it about BMW drivers that makes them so anti-Audi?
There are insecure types everywhere who feel the need to define themselves in terms of their choice of consumer goods, and to defend that choice by deriding the most prominent alternative. Google "Canon v Nikon" for evidence from another field.
Harder to understand, but equally entertaining to the neutral, is "Boeing v Airbus"; not many of us get to choose either of those for more than a few hours at a time. (Apple, incidentally, has its own preference: the iPhone capitalized 'Boeing' for me but I had to do 'Airbus' myself.)
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>> The drive alone is good enough for me to order an F30 "blind".
>>
Just a note of caution on that approach. I went from an E46 330d M Sport to an E90 330i SE, which was one of the first E90s delivered and so no test drive. It came on 18" alloys, runflats and standard suspension. The handling, after the E46, was poor. Far too skittish at the rear (runflats? suspension?) The quality was a step backwards, and the leather felt like cardboard after my old car. I hated it!! Now I know that the later ones were much better, but if you see YA05ZFP then steer clear!!
I note also that the latest F10 is not exactly getting rave reviews for driving pleasure, and requires £1000 of options to make it drive like a BMW. I did test drive one, and in my opinion it's moved more in the MB direction in terms of ride/handling balance, just at the time that MB have moved the other way...
On that basis I'd be wary of the F30 'til I'd driven it, especially with the plethora of wheel/suspension options that are likely to be available - and that's coming from someone who had 5 BMWs in a row
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In the Audi's case, the offset pedals are a deal-breaker. Just couldnt' get comfy in it. Maybe as an auto it wouldn't be so noticeable, but mine has to be manual.
The Passat CC is hugely appealing and I will test drive one. But the figures for the BMW make a compelling argument. Everything else on the list is a class smaller, and space is a big consideration.
Just can't see the F30 being a dud. The 3 is such a strategically critical car for BMW, they would have to be stupid to mess it up.
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>> without any apparent benefits from the fwd layout to the interior space
That's because they use longitudinal layouts for engines like a rear wheel drive car. They now mount them a lot further forward and thus free up space inside.
>> The Passat CC is hugely appealing and I will test drive one
It will not drive as well as the BMW but a nice car - maybe I'm biased :-) It is also a LOT bigger than a 3 series BMW. Easy enough to park. And the self park option is cheap too (didn't get that myself).
What do you get on say a Passat GT that you'd probably have to pay extra on the 3 series Efficient Dynamics?:
- Leather heated sets
- Sat nav
- Cruise control
- Parking sensors
- Adaptive dampers (dynamic chassis control)
- A bigger car
- Non-run flats with a full size spare tyre
You'd have to go for the 170PS engine to get to nearer the performance of the BMW so will cost more.
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BMW 3-Series E90 - New 3-series officially revealed - oilburner
