Yes it's the Daily Mail again but this time there is some fact behind the headline...
tinyurl.com/6gy3pso
(Warning don't click on the above link if you don't like the Daily Mail.. but feel free to comment in ignorance)
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And although today's proposal is only an 'own initiative' report and unlikely to see the light of legislative day...
...that didn't stop the Tories and the Mail (and the Express, which also reported this, although I can't find it in any of the serious papers) frothing at the mouth about Eurocrats interfering in Blighty's right to do as we jolly well please. Move along, nothing to see here.
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Had a 20MPH limit on our road in Truro, doesn't mean drivers will keep to it though,
The speed humps/pillows/kipping coppers etc.. slowed them down alright, most of them.
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Wouldn't need limits if drivers were taught to drive and not just to pass the test, that goes for all classes of licence.
In some situations on some residential and indeed town roads 20 mph is too fast.
How many times have we read or heard the excuse...i wasn't speeding...it means nothing, half the speed limit might have been too fast for the cirucmstances at that moment.
It's the modern way, legislate for the lowest common denominator.
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I guess that will gladden the hearts of some local politicians of the woolly persuasion who would have all our suburban roads restricted to 20 MPH if they had their way.
AC may be along shortly.
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>> Wouldn't need limits if drivers were taught to drive and not just to pass the
>> test,
>>
Bit of a tired old cliche that one.
How exactly do you teach someone to pass the test without teaching them to drive?
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>> Bit of a tired old cliche that one.
>>
Possibly but still the truth, until such time as someone (please, but won't hold breath) bases the test on car control and all round observation with actions based on what's observed, you take the recently tested driver to one side, and teach them car control, observation and forward planning.
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>> Possibly but still the truth, until such time as someone (please, but won't hold breath)
>> bases the test on car control and all round observation with actions based on what's
>> observed, you take the recently tested driver to one side, and teach them car control,
>> observation and forward planning.
>>
Funny, that's exactly what they test candidates on now.
You're making the mistake of thinking you can teach learners to become experienced drivers - you can't. No matter how many hours someone spends with an instructor or how thoroughly they are assessed by an examiner they still need to go out on their own and learn to handle day to day driving without guidance or prompting.
That's the way we all did it, the difference is that today's new drivers have passed a far more rigorous test than we had to. Whether that in itself is a good thing is another debate...
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Can't recall his exact words, but (long ago) my driving instructor was fond of saying that the mechanics of driving were easily learnt, but the skills of good driving were over 90% good manners.
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>> How exactly do you teach someone to pass the test without teaching them to drive?
>>
Simple, I passed my test in Australia, on my return to the UK I took a few lessons to learn how to pass the UK test. My instructor said it was a pain teaching both Mrs ON and myself the UK test technique rather than teaching us to drive as he had to eradicate the bad habits that had developed.
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As you'd passed your test in Aus both you and Mrs On were obviously experienced drivers, but you still had to presumably brush up on the good habits you'd probably fallen out of - use of mirrors, for example.
That's different from supposedly being able to teach someone to pass the test without actually teaching them the rest of it. If that's possible I wish I'd known how, it would have saved some enormous hassle.
Last edited by: Robin Regal on Wed 28 Sep 11 at 14:05
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A lot of roads near me are 20mph zones anyway, do 20 in them and watch all the near crashes as the Audis aggressively over take you at 40.
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Doesn't happen to me, Rats - admittedly in a different part of the country. Are you really at 20? In any case, don't all 20 zones have to have humps? Even Audis can't take those at 40.
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>>....In any case, don't all 20 zones have to have humps?
Certainly not.
Lots of 20 zones in the Kingston area with no humps
There was also a 20mph at Hampton on the A308 a feeder road to the M3 ( now its back to 30MPH and a brace of Gatsos.
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I had to look this up, but according to both Rospa and direct.gov, there's a difference between a 20mph limit, which is a naturally low-speed road that doesn't need calming measures, and a 20mph zone, which uses calming measures to force traffic to travel slower.
The implication, though, is that it is difficult or impossible to travel at 40 in either.
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HJ said that was why people bought these desert racers in mufti, Cayennes for example. They have enough suspension travel and good enough damping to cope with ghastly malevolent speed humps, kipping coppers and all the rest.
Even if I could afford one though I would consider it a bit on the hefty side for real urban barracuda stuff, as in early seventies minicabbing. I keep begging the major manufacturers to come out with a rugged, rapid small desert racer for urban use, but do they listen? Idiots. Or perhaps they are being bribed or blackmailed by politicians and gnomes. It's just money from their point of view. We supply the money and suffer the inconvenience.
I regard all so-called 20mph limits with utter contempt. What's the damn difference between a 30mph and a 20mph crawl? A pointless and redundant whisker.
And please don't give me that stuff about the percentage of deaths in impacts with suicidal pedestrians and kamikaze cyclists at those two speeds, as if we all drove about with our mouths open at undiminished speed waiting for the impact. It's just annoying.
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>>I keep begging the major manufacturers to come out with a rugged, rapid small desert racer for urban use, but do they listen? Idiots. Or perhaps they are being bribed or blackmailed by politicians and gnomes. It's just money from their point of view. We supply the money and suffer the inconvenience.<<
Missed the Rover Streetwise then AC? ;-))
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No there are plenty of 20 zones here with traffic calming measures whats so ever, I am not convinced those zones are legal. Keep meaning to ask the question here but keep forgetting.
This is the road I have a particular problem with as most traffic does 35mph down here, despite it being a 20.
Thankfully it not a road I use that often.
maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=m21&hl=en&ll=53.450464,-2.252137&spn=0.010619,0.028389&t=m&z=16&vpsrc=6&layer=c&cbll=53.450464,-2.252137&panoid=O7N7Ij2MYcMV1_wPjVA6GQ&cbp=12,170.41,,0,0.14
That road is a 20, it looks empty but you do get a lot more traffic during the day, I think this was taken early morning.
I have noticed more of an issue with Audis than BMWs lately.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Wed 28 Sep 11 at 14:41
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What about the road which I posted a link to? Straight and wide for about 1.5 miles, you can easily 40+ down there as it is because there are no calming measures. In fact the only 20 signs are just a small roundel as you enter the road from one of the junctions etc.
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>> watch all the near crashes as the Audis aggressively over take you at 40.
Slight thread drift...
It used to be the poor BMW driver who got most of the forum stick, but I've noticed recently that this is now being directed the Audi driver.
Has there been a change of sentiment?
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As Clarkson put it on sticking the Hamster's favourite Audi well out of Hamster-reach on the nasty end of the cool wall: "All the [male chickens] drive Audis rather than BMWs now, so it has to be uncool."
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I'm starting to feel victimised by all this Audi driver bashing.
I try at all times to drive safely, courteously and within the law.
I'm not a typical aggressive type - honest!
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Relax, L - as long as yours (Audi, that is, not male chicken) isn't black, you're in the clear.
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>> Relax, L - as long as yours (Audi, that is, not male chicken) isn't black,
>> you're in the clear.
>>
I have yet to see a clear Audi...
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I did see a polished chrome R8 on a sunny spring day in Knightsbridge. Extraordinary-looking thing. See-through can only be a matter of time.
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>> See-through can only be a matter of time.
>>
That'll be one for the time machine thread destination 1939:
news.yahoo.com/blogs/technology-blog/see-1939-pontiac-ghost-car-fetches-308-000-013434736.html
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>> Relax, L - as long as yours (Audi, that is, not male chicken) isn't black,
>> you're in the clear.
>>
*Gulp* Black? . . . err.....might be....might be...(looks round warily)
All right, it's black. But it's as SE. not an S-line. And I have a current National Trust membership badge on the windscreen. And I'm very kind to animals.
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>> I'm starting to feel victimised by all this Audi driver bashing.
>> I try at all times to drive safely, courteously and within the law.
>> I'm not a typical aggressive type - honest!
Don't worry, Londoner. I get it for driving a BMW all the time.
I tend to generally take it in the spirit that (most of) it is meant. Light hearted banter.
My BMW has been playing up a bit lately, with engine management light coming on, and other silliness. When I told a friend about the MIL light, without a moment's hesitation he replied "Did you turn the foglights off, or leave a gap to the car in front? It probably put the light on out of shock!" :-)
Cheers
DP
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The problem is not with the indicators by any chance is it? :D
To be fair I've not had too many problems with BMW drivers lately, by far the worst are Zafera drivers, they are always up my back side.
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My problem atm is with black Galaxies and the odd Sharan.
The link is their being operated by London's biggest private hire concern.
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A 20mph limit was posted on the road into Richmond, North Yorkshire.
A few months ago a copper told me it had been ruled as legally unenforceable.
He said he is not too bothered about that, because the signs are doing the job.
The limit is aimed mostly at visitors who the police know are unaware of local publicity about its legality.
There was some talk of the signs being taken down, but I've not been that way recently to check.
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I drive through the Richmond 20mph limit most days. When it was introduced it was unenforceable because there were no small repeater signs at the required intervals. Now there are but I have yet to see anyone getting a pull for speeding, or a policeman with a radar gun. Sticking to 20mph in context isn't a big deal unless you are on a bicycle.
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Thanks Hawkeye.
Come to think of it, that may have been what the policeman meant - it was unenforceable, it now is, but we are not bothering to do so.
He did say the main concern was in visitor season when the road is used by pedestrians, quite a few of whom cross the road near the old bus garage/train station.
For those that don't know, the buildings are now a small tourist attraction, and there are a few office-based businesses there.
Given what I was told, perhaps the police will do some enforcement when the better weather comes next year.
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Iffy,
>> He did say the main concern was in visitor season when the road is used
>> by pedestrians, quite a few of whom cross the road near the old bus garage/train
>> station.
The end of the 20 mph zone is between the bus garage entrance and the (old Railway) Station car park. The area of concrete in front of the derelict bus garage has got small generic "Don't park here or you'll be clamped" signs. A proposal for "affordable housing" there was rejected recently.
>>
>> For those that don't know, the buildings are now a small tourist attraction, and there
>> are a few office-based businesses there.
Tiny cinema, cafe/bar, micro brewery, cheese manufacturers and ice-cream parlour to name a few. Don't forget your parking disc or the parking womble will 'ave yer.
www.richmondstation.com/
The attractions have put a lot of pressure on the car parks, also shared by the swimming pool, which is why I cycle to work there when I'm teaching. There are signs up to show the old railway track (my commute) is now part of the National Cycle Network.
Sorry about the thread drift; back to your lives, citizens.
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>> I drive through the Richmond 20mph limit most days.
>> but I have yet to see anyone getting a pull for speeding, or a policeman
>> with a radar gun.
Funny how one's observations differ.
Was in the park on two days in May bike training for Brighton ride. On both occasions the police were lurknig with radar. The limit in the park, unlike those on public roads, applies to all; not just motor vehicles.
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>> Funny how one's observations differ.
>>
I think you're referring to the new southern Richmond whereas I was on about the original Richmond oop north. That would account for the difference; and you wouldn't come to the park here to train, the "no cycling, no ball games" signs might put you off.
Last edited by: hawkeye on Thu 29 Sep 11 at 11:01
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18.6mph limit in UK... - WillDeBeest
