Daughter has her first real driving lesson today. Due to insurance costs I am not willing to add her to either of our cars.
I have, however, taken her out to deserted Lidl carparks at night purely to let her sit behind the wheel and practice clutch bite, and last night we also covered a first - to -second gear change.
I deliberately don't want to show her any more as I am unsure as to what the latest guidelines are on things like slowing down, gears or brakes? etc so leaving that to the professionals.
However in my conversations with her it is apparent that she has absolutely no knowledge on the workings of cars. can anyone recommend any online reading that would give her a bit of a "starter for ten" that would maybe cover things like what do gears do, how a basic engine works etc etc?
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 14 Sep 11 at 14:30
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And in case you are wondering, wife's bog standard diesel Beetle is insured through Tesco.
The quote to add daughter to the policy for the remaining 9 months was
.................. £3596.74 ....................
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Although I am a lifelong enthusiast and know what all the mechanical components are and do in a car. I think it is now becoming so complex only a basic knowledge is required. Fluid checks, (and which goes where) tyres etc. How many people know how their other (cringe) domestic appliances work? I have the advantage of knowing how a nuclear submarine works, which makes a central heating system pretty simple, but car electronics, the dishwasher, (electric one), TV, etc. no chance.
I rapidly gave up with my girls, I recently had one at my door (age 40ish) saying her oil light was on, at least she knew what it was! Her car took almost a litre of oil! Useless husband!
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 11:45
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Try carbibles.com
A mine of information written clearly for people of all skill levels.
Years ago the AA published the AA Book of the Car.
It was a huge volume that gave excellent diagrams and descriptions of all aspects, exactly what you are looking for IMO and would be good reading for all car users, might even give them a little mechanical sympathy, which is sadly missing as per Navy's post....i think we've all got tales to tell about neglected cars.
I doubt it's still in print and will be way out of date, but if you found one lurking in a charity shop!! worth grabbing.
I agree with not putting the kids on your own insurance by the way, and i hope daughter gets on well with her lessons.
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Another thought, how about pointing your youngster at some "How it works" type websites. It depends on the daughter, but some prefer the internet and there are animated diagrams which can make it easier for those without mechanical aptitude to understand.
Good luck! Been there done that you will need it. :)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 12:09
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>>Years ago the AA published the AA Book of the Car.
I agree with GB's suggestion, the AA book is very good, if a little dated - however, the content is much more reliable than any rubbish on the internet.
The Ladybird book of the motor car is also surprisingly authoritative - an ex Triumph chassis / stress engineer had a lot of technical input.
Next week, we begin the induction process for our new intake of freshers - it's only three weeks away from the point where some of them will be trying to pass off some carp copied from ehow, how stuff works, or wikipedia as their own work!
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Gears. If anyone knows how to explain gears i'd love to hear it. My solution was to convince M what she wanted was an automatic.
Going up a hill at 25mph in 3rd, engine close on what it can handle... all of a sudden all progress halts as we go into 4th.
50mph, that'll be 3rd...
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Do you have a bicycle in the house?
If so, find an incline and put it in the highest gear and get her to try and ride off in that. Then put it in bottom gear and get her to do it again. Explaining that is exactly why a car engine needs the gears changing to suit the conditions should make the penny drop.
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Good idea RR, but she never learned to ride a bike :-(
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RR, I actually used that comparison with her in relation to her bike and gears.
Explaining that on the bike you start off low as its easier to pedal but eventually the pedals go too fast for comfort, so change up etc. Similarly, when you approach a stop on a bike, you change down so the bike is in a low gear ready for taking off again.
On that note, does anyone know if the current thinking is using gears to slow down or brakes?
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>> On that note, does anyone know if the current thinking is using gears to slow
>> down or brakes?
>>
Brakes for a car, except in extreme alpine conditions. Slow with the brakes, select the appropriate gear and accelerate.
The gearbox thing is from the days of cable brakes with leather brake pads.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 13:17
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>>with leather brake pads.
>>
Before my time :-)
I thought teaching offspring was no longer a good idea as the instructors know what is required.
Then dad has to learn that prior to practice runs.
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>> Then dad has to learn that prior to practice runs.
>>
Agreed, hands up those who think they could pass a test at short notice. :)
Not me. :(
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 13:35
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>> Agreed, hands up those who think they could pass a test at short notice. :)
>>
>> Not me. :(
>>
I doubt i'd pass one again despite all the notice in the world, so i'll be off the road once retired, by then those who can't control a vehicle without all sorts of electronic aids will have forced through compulsory retesting for those no longer needed.
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I did,
I took my taxi test on a whim. Did nothing more than book it, and turn up. Passed with 1 minor.
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>> I did,
>>
>> I took my taxi test on a whim. Did nothing more than book it, and
>> turn up. Passed with 1 minor.
>>
Now how did I guess it would be you Z?
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>>I thought teaching offspring was no longer a good idea as the instructors know what is required.
Then dad has to learn that prior to practice runs.
Henry, to be honest, I am not looking to teach her anymore than what I have done so far ie, this is how the clutch/steering wheel works etc. As well as not knowing the correct teaching methods I think it could be the end of a, so far, good father -daughter realtionship as I am not known for being a good passenger! Just ask SWMBO !
But it is amazing to realise that when you drive you do so many things on auto pilot and trying to explain them is difficult. In recent weeks I have asked daughter to sit in passenger seat, observe and start to take notice of car and surroundings.
Gear changes especially just happen without any thought process in it, pulling up to a kerb without hitting it is just experience, and don't even try to explain reverse parking! All these things just, well, happen!
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'Gears. If anyone knows how to explain gears i'd love to hear it."
Anybody who has ridden a push bike will understand all you need to know about gears
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Yeah i agree riding a bike is the ideal lesson but she wont learn to ride because there's nowhere nearby with a soft landing that's private enough for her (i completely understand that, noone likes being watched when you're learning something everyone else can already do).
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My wife couldn't ride a bike. Was amazed when I ofund out - I though everybody could ride a bike! Was in her mid forties when I her taught her. We were on holiday in the peak district and there was a cycle trail where you could rent bikes. After an hour or so was was away and we had a great afternoon.
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I suggest avoiding any more late-night excursions to supermarket car parks.
They are places to which the public have access, so insurance is required.
You might argue she is not driving, but sitting behind the wheel, engine on, car in gear, means that argument would be lost.
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>>I suggest avoiding any more late-night excursions to supermarket car parks.
They are places to which the public have access, so insurance is required.
You might argue she is not driving, but sitting behind the wheel, engine on, car in gear, means that argument would be lost.
Iffy Ihad my viewpoint all ready last night...
officer tomorrow is her first ever driving lesson, has never even sat behind the wheel, just wanted to familiarise her with the controls etc etc officer
of course if I was speaking to him after she had driven a hole through Lidl I think it would be a different story but as it was, just mostly some first gear clutch control with my hand hovering over the handbrake!
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On the insurance front, just played about with some figures on Admiral multi car policy quote system.
I could have my car and my wife's at close to their normal renewal price and could have my daughter insured on a (hypothertical) 1.2 Renault Clio, fully comp, with her earning no claims, for £617 per annum.
Mmm interesting, think I might look a bit further into this!
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...fully comp, with her earning no claims, for £617 per annum...
Don't think you'll do much better than that, I know a few parents who are paying a lot more for their teenagers.
Time to congratulate Mrs BG for giving birth to a daughter rather than a son - that's saved you a few quid.
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>> - that's saved you a few quid.
Aye, 'till the wedding ! That'll make the insurance saving look like loose change. What's more, Bobby'll have to buy a new pair of shoes...
:-)
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Humph, as long as the wedding is on a weekday then I will be able to wear my normal shoes. If it was weekend, that would put a sixth day onto them that week whicg might be asking for trouble!
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I would leave it to the driving chappy to show her.Surprising how quickley she might pick up.
I used to take my daughter for lessons she was 23.Failed miserable I was to inpatient.
I keep a eye on her car husband leaves it to me .Must be a pattern Old Navy..:)
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>> I keep a eye on her car husband leaves it to me .Must be a
>> pattern Old Navy..:)
These young fellers don't like getting their hands dirty.
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These young fellers don't like getting their hands dirty.
True,Polished both their cars the other week hovered them out checked tyre pressures.
Ah well.Must be a reason.(lLove them both.>;))
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Insurance for learners is generally cheaper than for a newly qualified (for the same person) because it requires that a qualified driver present while the learner is driving.
Google "learner driver insurance" to get links to referrers who will get you short term - monthly/weekly etc. - Collingwood's cover at a discount. Her ADI might be able to give her the discount code too. This independently covers the learner to drive in a nominated car, i.e. it is not linked in any way to the insurance of the owner or reg.keeper of the car. The insurance expires once the learner has qualified.
As for how a car works guides, try
auto.howstuffworks.com/car.htm
www.howstuffworks.com/engine.htm
Last edited by: Suppose on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 13:05
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Thanks for those links Suppose, will have a check through them later
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Hi Bobby,
I've found the Admiral group pretty good for my two youngsters. Daughter passed her test last year and is additional driver on both cars for very little more than we were paying before. No desire for car of her own as she's off to Uni next week
Son is 17 next month and will be about £250 additional premium until renewal in Feb for either car but not both.
I'd also endorse Iffy's cautions about practising. Miss B's first go at driving my Xantia ended up on the grass verge. It just seemed to run off with her - panic I think!!
I caught it quickly; knocked into neutral and hauled on the handbrake. No damage but could easily have been. It made us both think!!
Last edited by: Bromptonaut on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 13:12
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My Dad taught me to drive in his Volvo 240 nearly 35 years ago. There's a metal lamppost in Edinburgh with a ding in lt to this day to prove it. The Volvo was unharmed...
:-)
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That lampost is now a tramline...
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Edit - So's the Volvo probably !
So, did you get another pair of shoes or are you still wearing the same ones every day?
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 16:40
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It was going to be a tramline, but not any more.
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Same ones, I don't give in that easy to capitalists and commercialisation and fake reports about bacteria....... :)
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>> That lampost is now a tramline...
>>
Volvos are made from old tramlines. On other cars the bits of plastic trim are called "bumpers".
Seriously though, the first thing is to establish whether your daughter is the kind who would appreciate technical knowledge, or would find it totally confusing.
Some people know why they change gear, others just do it.
Some people know how to steer a dinghy, others never get it.
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Pretty much as Cliff says, I'd want to avoid technical overload on a leaner. I suppose my executive summary would be something like this:-
- Explain basic concept of gears via pushbike comparison.
- Don't slip the clutch (OK tricky at first)
- amber light on dash = something needs attention soon
- red light on dash = stop as soon as safe to do so, phone RAC/AA/Daddy/Mummy/partner
- don't put the wrong fuel in
- check Tyre condition & pressure regularly (some hope)
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Somewhere I have a book written in the 1930's for the lady motorist addressing just this issue. It is the most patronising book I have ever seen, and I just had to add it to my shelves.
I think anyone giving it to a female relative these days would be lucky to get out of the room alive!
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I think you should post selected paragraphs - I think Pat might have something to say !
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....in the interests of motoring history ?
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>> Pretty much as Cliff says, I'd want to avoid technical overload on a leaner. I
>> suppose my executive summary would be something like this:-
>>
>> - Explain basic concept of gears via pushbike comparison.
>>
>> - Don't slip the clutch (OK tricky at first)
>>
>> - amber light on dash = something needs attention soon
>>
>> - red light on dash = stop as soon as safe to do so, phone
>> RAC/AA/Daddy/Mummy/partner
>>
>> - don't put the wrong fuel in
>>
>> - check Tyre condition & pressure regularly (some hope)
>>
Where to fine AA/RAC/Red Flag Membership card, and phone number....
Last edited by: swiss tony on Tue 13 Sep 11 at 22:22
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>> >> Pretty much as Cliff says, I'd want to avoid technical overload on a leaner.
>>
>>
I'm remembering being a learner, and seeing my daughter learn recently.
It's hard to appreciate just how pressured a learner feels. There seem to be hundreds of things to do all at the same time. Any attempt to impart unwanted technical information will simply obstruct the whole learning process.
My advice would be to wait until asked. When my daughter said, early on, "what does the clutch actually do?" I told her, and it helped because she could then picture the two discs biting as she let the pedal up.
But my wife who has been driving very competently for 30 years hasn't a clue how the clutch works, and her eyes would glaze over if I tried to tell her.
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Car inforrmation for a 17 year old girl - BobbyG
