Apart from the pictures in the press and motoring mags, has anyone seen the new MGs in the flesh?
There were two at Brent Cross this morning. They range from about 15K to to 19K. Back of the saloon looked like a BMW. Back of hatchback looked like a Mazda. Both fronts looked a bit strange and on closer inspection, much use of cheap plastic around bonnet and badge area. Side vents on front wings.... plastic.
Inside the saloon, it had leather seats. Bearing in mind these were spanking new the drivers right leg bolster was already creased. I pointed this out and all I got was, well it is leather. Yes, but I've had several cars with leather and the same creasing really only occured after a year or so getting in and out. Dash very plain.
The one plus with the hatchback. It had huge legroom in the back with the front seats comfortably pushed back. I would rather have a MG ZT over this car, even now, but there were many interested people going over these cars. Maybe they will have a hit on their hands.
Anyone else like to comment if they have been in one or seen one up close.
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I saw one the other day, hatchback.
Thought it was a Tata or something like that. Terribly unresolved car, cant see it taking at all.
Only saving grace MIGHT be the diesels if they atleast have great economy, otherwise its a dead concept. The 1.8 has high CO2, which just shows what blinkered morons must be running the outfit like its still the 90's.
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The petrol offering is a dirty, thirsty old thing. It has no chance until the diesel arrives, but cant see that being much cop either.
Looking at the new pug 508 today - they can crack over 200bhp and get 48mpg from a big auto - cant see the MG offering being anywhere near that
When did it launch? See there were only 11 new MG's registered in April
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None of the reviews have been that positive, all criticising the cheap dash and out dated engines.
I would rather have a second hand Mazda 6, Passat or Mondeo than one of these which is a great shame.
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I know what you mean - I kind of wanted to like it - bit like the underdog, but thesres not much to recomend it
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1.8 turbo petrol with 150-ish bhp.
That was sort of ok 15 years ago with VAG's lowest state of tune 1.8, but even then I had a 1.8 N/A Civic with almost 170bhp.
It needed a highly efficient 1.4 turbo as most manufacturers seem to be churning out, or something with some fire in it's belly a la VAG's 2.0 TFSi.
Other than 'decently equipped for the price' it appears to lack a USP.
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>> Other than 'decently equipped for the price' it appears to lack a USP.
Worse it carries two stigma,
made in china, and the name MG
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I don't think the MG badge would be much of a stigma if it was actually vaguely sporty.
Made in China is the biggest albatross hanging on it.
Might be better than having 'Made in Longbridge' stamped on it though...
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Im not even sure being chinese hurts it too much - made in Somalia maybe, but China is hardly a foreign idea here.
If a chinese car was suitably cheaper, loaded with warranty ( would need to be 10 years with Kia at 7 now ) and most of all the company was known to have a solid car building reputation elsewhere, I think brits would buy it.
This MG thing though, its none of these things, my 5 year old son could write a more successful business plan.
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>> Im not even sure being chinese hurts it too much - made in Somalia maybe,
>> but China is hardly a foreign idea here.
In terms of consumer products China is perceived as a source of cheap crap though, not much of a USP, particularly in badge snob Britain.
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Agree - I dont really think of China as a producer of quality cutting edge technology, I think of it as somewhere that makes OK product at a price cheaper than anywhere else.
As Stu said - if it came with a long warranty and was cheap enough then people would take a punt, but it offeres nothing over and above anything else I could buy. Although the name is old they are effectivley new to the market, so need a good USP
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China like elsewhere can make good stuff.....for the RIGHT price.
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>> China like elsewhere can make good stuff.....for the RIGHT price.
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Agreed, they seem to do OK at spacecraft, aircraft etc.etc., I was trying to be very careful with my words....
Having worked with Chinese companies they can produce good quality product, but it takes a lot of time and effort. and after all many 'premium' consumer products are made in China.
However, if you ask the man on the Clapham omnibus to name the top 5 quality brands for just about anything - TVs, cars, fridges, phones etc. I doubt if you'll find many Chinese companies on the list. HTC is the only one I can think of that might make the top 5, for smartphones.
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>> somewhere that makes OK product at a price cheaper than anywhere else.
Like the iPhone.
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>> >> somewhere that makes OK product at a price cheaper than anywhere else.
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>> Like the iPhone.
>>
True, but the iPhone is seen as an Apple product, not a Chinese product. I doubt if MG can pull off the same trick.
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As things stand, I think Spamcan is right. But they could soon catch on to what Europeans require - look at what the Japanese motor industry did in the 1960s.
The first Japanese car that came here - the Daihatsu Compagno - wasn't up to much. But the shovel-fronted Toyota Corona followed soon after and earned a reputation for reliability that is still there.
MG may not be the firm to do it, but if a Chinese manufacturer brings a range to Europe which includes a diesel option from the start and makes the cars' interiors look more inviting and upmarket, 'Made in China' could be perceived as positively as 'Made in Japan' now is.
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>> look at what the Japanese motor industry did in the 1960s.
And Korean Hyundai/Kia more recently.
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Image takes time, but if you build it and sell it cheap enough, brits will buy it, look how we took to Skoda, Hyundai, Kia, all started as poxy oddball crap makes that werent taken seriously - Hyundai-Kia is now a big player and Skoda is top of satisfaction surveys.
China can sell stuff cheap here and I think they will do in due course.
The problem with this MG is they are selling cheap crap at quality prices and Im afriad the british consumer aint that stupid. If the base model was like £13k then yes, maybe it would stand a chance, but with Chevrolet turning out reasonable cars at very reasonable prices.
I cant see any reason why someone would by an MG over say a Chevy Cruze which has the backing of GM and they are starting to become well developed products for the price.
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I saw somewhere the other day that they are calling the saloon version the MG Magnette.
It's a disgrace - even worse than when the former mob traduced the name Rover.
The same downmarket old car magazine (passed on by a friend!) had a bloke with a collection of three MGs including a 6 'because it will be a classic one day'. When there are twerps like that around I guess they are bound to sell a few.
Words fail me. Oh, hang on - no they don't
Takes deep breath:
Ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong ying tong iddlypo...
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>>I saw somewhere the other day that they are calling the saloon version the MG Magnette.
It's a disgrace - even worse than when the former mob traduced the name Rover<<
As bad as PSA using the Talbot name for the Tagora/Horizon etc., etc,. etc.
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See Motorpoint have quite a few unregistered MGTF's - starting at 10,999. Bet they picked those up cheap
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Well I guess this site could almost be half made in China - I am half chinese after all! (as in ethnicity, not origin)
Because of your good nature I assume you only meant it as banter and didn't mean to offend. ;-)
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I can't see anything personal about the Chinese people on here, it is purely about cars, and as of 2011 it is clear that China still has a lot of catching up to do.
I am sure no Indians would be offended if you said that India still have a lot of catching up to with their cars.
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True, but because I also see hidden posts and read emails coming in for moderation I think he knows what I mean. Can I leave it at that?
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...Can I leave it at that?...
Moving on as requested, I had a nose around a TF about a year ago.
Looked like a good car for the money.
I think it would sell if more people knew about it.
www.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleSearch/Mg%20Motor%20Uk
Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 23 Aug 11 at 11:01
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Well I suppose if you ignore the depreciation (which may be not so bad in money terms anyway) and the K series engine legacy (maybe they finally fixed them properly, who knows..) then that is a lot of car for the money, a quick look on Autotrader suggests the equivalent MX-5 would be 10 grand!!!!! more.
Last edited by: spamcan61 on Tue 23 Aug 11 at 11:44
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>> I think it would sell if more people knew about it.
>>
>> www.motorpoint.co.uk/VehicleSearch/Mg%20Motor%20Uk
people do know about it. They know it as possibly the most unreliable car to have ever hit the streets of Britain. It has a long well documented and oft repeated history of emptying your wallet.
Now that well may not be true now, but so much mud has stuck so thickly that its virtually unsaleable. That's why they are so cheap.
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>> True, but because I also see hidden posts and read emails coming in for moderation
>> I think he knows what I mean. Can I leave it at that?
yes that was banter in very poor taste, and I assumed someone named Khoo might have noticed! Apologise if it misfired and offended.
But the basic point is a sound one, Chinese made cars have bad press. To the layman China is synonymous with cheap poorly made goods. (yes they don't realise their iPhone is made in china).
Yes the comparison with Japanese made cars is valid, BUT in hindsight the early ones that came out of there were crap. They went on to fix that and produce some of the best BUT there are other factors at work here.
China wont have a wealthy nation with large amounts of disposable incomes to trade with (the UK) as most of out wealth is shifting east. Consumers in the US will have nothing to do with it.
The EU will probably slap a ban in Chinese imports if they become a factor (they have loads of ammo for this due to Chinas protectionist policies)
And China has rapidly rising costs.
In short, unless they build here, they are doomed in Europe.
And and and, if they do make a Magnette, my original deleted comment stands! ;)
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 23 Aug 11 at 11:31
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The Chineese can make some very high quality HIFI equipment too, British brands made in China seem to be a recipe for great HIFI, designed and engineered in the UK, made in China, just like this MG really, as you can't really count what they do in Longbridge as building it.
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Why is it called MG Motor and not Motors? The name even sounds Chinese.
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>> Why is it called MG Motor and not Motors? The name even sounds Chinese.
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Well spotted Rattle!
Most of us had - ahem - singularly failed to spot that.
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Apologies accepted naturally.
It's good to keep "decorum in the forum" ;-)
I also agree with your other points.
I also see China's big problem will be tacking corruption. Of course this is linked to resulting poor quality. See for example recent problems with their high speed trainline:
www.ft.com/cms/s/0/a50fa362-5572-11e0-a2b1-00144feab49a.html
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More enthusiastic drivers than me say the TF drives and handles like a dream.
I think the middish-engined layout means it's almost bound to.
The only real problem with earlier versions of the engine was overheating, which appear to have been solved by fitting a better head gasket.
I'm fairly sure the TF has a front-mounted radiator, so a properly maintained car shouldn't overheat.
The car is built half in China and half in Longbridge, and the build quality looked to me as good as any other mass-produced car.
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>> More enthusiastic drivers than me say the TF drives and handles like a dream.
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>> I think the middish-engined layout means it's almost bound to.
Indeed, its actually a great little car.
>> The only real problem with earlier versions of the engine was overheating, which appear to
>> have been solved by fitting a better head gasket.
Nah it was never fixed in the production hands of Rover, it was more than the gasket.
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>> I'm fairly sure the TF has a front-mounted radiator, so a properly maintained car shouldn't
>> overheat.
Indeed but that brought on two new problems. Long hoses to the engine, and an airflow issue that upset the handling at high speed (it had front lift due to the venting of the radiator airflow)
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>> The car is built half in China and half in Longbridge,
recipe for disaster.
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...it had front lift due to the venting of the radiator airflow...
Front lift?
It must go well.
I thought it was only the front of impeccably engineered Merc racers which lifted.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQbgSe9S54I
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>>Nah it was never fixed in the production hands of Rover, it was more than the gasket<<
It was never as much of a problem as it was made out to be. Over a year in a Rover workshop you would maybe see 2-3 HGF and always on cars service outside the dealer network - always old coolant or untreated leaks, very few actual failures of the gasket in isolation, more down to overheating due to lack of coolant either in circulation or quantity.
Clueless owners who dont open the bonnet between services - when my sister had a VVC MGF, THE state of tune most known for HGF, I taught her to simply check the coolant every week and she had no problems with hers, she adored it.
>>and an airflow issue that upset the handling at high speed (it had front lift due to the venting of the radiator airflow)<<
Ive driven an MGF Trophy ( not TF ) at 135mph and it didnt feel light so must be specific to the TF, I prefer the MGF anyway, never took to the TF. The Trophy does have a spoiler on the front bumper which may help at high speed.
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...It was never as much of a problem as it was made out to be...
I've always thought that, but I don't have any direct experience to back it up - just like those who bleat 'head gasket failure' every time the car is mentioned.
I do have experience of servicing Triumph Stags, and you could say the same about them.
Lovely car, lots of moaning from the uninformed about overheating, but no problems if you kept anti-freeze/corrosion inhibitor in year round, and kept an eye on the level.
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>>Lovely car, lots of moaning from the uninformed about overheating, but no problems if you kept anti-freeze/corrosion inhibitor in year round, and kept an eye on the level<<
Eh, how about the timing chains then :(
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>> The car is built half in China and half in Longbridge
I stand to be corrected but I don't think the MG TF is built anywhere anymore. I think they stopped building it late last year. It was produced in Longbridge from CKD kits supplied from China.
Actually saw quite a number of MGs and Rovers, sorry Roewes, around Shanghai and Nanjing. The restyled Roewe equivalent of the Rover 75 with the huge grill and bubble shaped headlamps looks dreadful, at least the MG 6 merely looks bland.
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...I stand to be corrected but I don't think the MG TF is built anywhere anymore...
That might explain why Motorpoint has picked up a few unregistered ones, although it still appears on the MG Motor website:
www.mg.co.uk/the-models/mg-tf.aspx#/?page=OVERVIEW_MGTF
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>> I also see China's big problem will be tacking corruption.
Yes, this is a big problem in China. When negotiating with companies in China it's very common for a military general or local government bigwig to take part in the meeting to make sure the "right" decisions are made.
Another big problem is the productivity in the factories which are set up for low wage/ low skill manufacture and are hugely inefficient compared to Western factories (which themselves are generally still some way behind Japan). In a lot of cases wage inflation is already eating into their profit margins, but changing working practices in China is very difficult.
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All this talk about what rubbish Chinese cars are, don't forget the Honda Jazz is made in China, something which Honda themselves keep pretty quiet about.
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>> All this talk about what rubbish Chinese cars are, don't forget the Honda Jazz is
>> made in China, something which Honda themselves keep pretty quiet about.
>>
So is nearly everything else, the western world buys, Its all about the quality control
Companies, like Honda, Apple, will go to great lengths to ensure that the quality control is top notch!
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The Chinese can make most things well if they are following a design. A lot of manufacturers make cars for the local markets there (VW, Audi, etc).
What they have not yet managed to do is design/engineer brand new cars that satisfy our market. The Rover 75 derived stuff must be fairly okay because they are changing an existing design and are using UK based talent.
Sadly for us, China will get there and our manufacturing base will suffer.
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>> Sadly for us, China will get there and our manufacturing base will suffer.
>>
While im not saying that its right, my job is going to India in a few months, however
Its to profitable to use China or "3rd world countries" - Little, or no Health and Safety laws and Employment laws, no Data Protection to get in the way. People who will work very long hours for very little money
western comapnies will want to make as much profit, with less expenditure, with very little hassle (things such as employment law, and health and saftey) its the way they want to do it - however for this they have to ensure that Quality control is top notch - otherwise it wont pay off
Last edited by: Redviper on Tue 23 Aug 11 at 21:06
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"Sadly for us, China will get there and our manufacturing base will suffer. "
Only if we allow that to happen by buying their exports. They won't be getting my custom.
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You will have to be very careful if you really want to avoid Chinese made goods. Enormous quantities of small electrical goods are made in China and sold in places like Argos, Currys and Comet. Portable kitchen electricals, DVD players, Hair straighteners and driers etc
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Indeed. In this case I was referring to the car industry. One of the things the West does very well and we need to keep it that way.
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Missed the context! Sorry!
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There's no need to apologise, my post could have been read the way you did.
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>>don't forget the Honda Jazz is
>> made in China, something which Honda themselves keep pretty quiet about.
I rest my case M'Lud.
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>> All this talk about what rubbish Chinese cars are, don't forget the Honda Jazz is
>> made in China, something which Honda themselves keep pretty quiet about.
Honda had all sorts of problems getting Jazz production up and running in China. They also don't import the Chinese built Jazz to Japan any more. The ones sold in Europe come from UK, Japan and China. In Germany, Japanese and UK built Jazz command higher second hand prices than Chinese built ones (country of origin identifiable from the VIN) - early Chinese ones have a reputation for rusting along the welding seams.
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Didn't know they built/assembled Jazzes in the UK?
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n October 2009 HUM began production of the Honda Jazz.[11]
According to Wiki and sourced thus:-
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8294859.stm
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I was able to have a very good look at the MG6 today, inside and out. All I can say is, this would have blown away the competition...back in 1995.
Shame, because I'd like to see more decent choices in the new car market. With platform and engine sharing rampant through European manufacturers (meaning so many cars are just variations of another model with a different badge) and some makes going, or gone, we could do with more choice.
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It's disappointing. The only chance now is either lower the cost or follow up with something brilliant. Unlikely on the latter :-(
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The would have been better off selling it as the Changwanghooey and pricing it at £10k.
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Can you imagine years ago choosing between the MG and a Skoda. Then, the MG might have won hands down. Nowadays, no one in the right mind would consider the MG especially priced as it is.
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I am guessing quite a few Brummies will buy these, but nobody else. The engine just makes it a bad purchase as it is supposed to be a cheap car, but with the high running costs what is the point.
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The volte face happened pretty fast after 1995. Then, I'd have been happy to buy an MG F - although since I was a tight fit in a Rover 214, I doubt I'd have got in - while the Felicia looked like an adequate but crude bargain basement option. By 2001, when we bought a Fabia, a few friends offered Skoda cracks but they sounded pretty thin; MG was reduced to offering chavtastic spinoffs of Rovers that were either outdated (25, 45) or lost in self-parody (75).
None of this bodes well for the new MG in a mainstream market where an established maker - Saab - can't persuade buyers it's a serious player. I agree that price cutting seems like MG's best chance.
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>> established maker - Saab - can't persuade buyers it's a serious player.
If they were actually making any it might help.
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I saw one of those new Saabs the other day - very impressive looking motor.
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I saw one of those new Saabs the other day - very impressive looking motor.
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soo good you saw it twice?
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He was so surprised to see it that he did a double take.
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I have to admit to reading much of this thread with a resigned melancholy, not because of the MG - it's probably not well suited to markets other than the Chinese home market and I haven't seen one on the road either. But because of the content of some of the posts.
I'm currently living in Hong Kong and often travel to China, why is this ? Because that's where the money is - both for my employer (a US company) and my customer (a UK company).
And why might this be ? Because China is the manufacturing engine for the world, your iPod, iPhone, iPad are very likely manufactured in China - along with your Nikon camera, laptop and quality hi-fi, so why not your car ? Quality can be high.
The Chinese domestic market is different to the UK market, for instance buyers often save up to buy things rather than relying on finance (a dig at the UK's debt problem there I'm afraid). Some standards are lower I'd agree - not health and safety regulation per se, more the cultural attitude to safety and the value of life. However many car companies manufacture in China for the Domestic and Asian markets - Opel, VW, Skoda, Ford, Toyota, Honda spring to mind. Their products look (to me) to be on a par with those manufactured elsewhere and (perhaps) command a premium in the Chinese market too.
To drift off thread - look at how much US debt China holds, they lend the US the money to buy their goods, I'm not sure of the UK's debt position with respect to China but the balance of trade is probably rather one sided? We've benefited from 10 years of real price deflation due to China's rise as a manufacturing power.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Mon 29 Aug 11 at 15:53
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The problem with China is not the proper factories but the rogue factories churning out fakes which end up in the legit supply chain.
I am now resorting to measuring the resistance of every mains cable I buy to ensure it has the correct grade of copper in the cables.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 29 Aug 11 at 15:55
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Traditional British xenophobia - a quality product
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>> Traditional British xenophobia - a quality product
>>
Yes, and suicidal for the future of Britain as an economic power.
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>> The problem with China is not the proper factories but the rogue factories churning out
>> fakes which end up in the legit supply chain.
>>
>> I am now resorting to measuring the resistance of every mains cable I buy to
>> ensure it has the correct grade of copper in the cables.
>>
Yes Rattle, it's down to command of the supply chain, but well run factories (like those of Lenovo, Apple etc) produce good quality products. If it's cheap then there's probably a reason.... you can get the copies, but branded stuff even from Hong Kong computer markets is genuine.
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The problem now is that some of the fakes are the same price. It concerns me as I do supply a lot of laptop transformers, and I have to make sure they are genuine. Checking to see if the plug is genuine is a good start (e.g not ones with a sleeved earth pin!) and the ones which posts pictures of the internals of the power supply is another way to ensure a genuine product.
I have a lot of high quality Chinese goods, but they are mostly HIFI for some reason most my TV equipment seems to be made in Eastern Europe.
That said I know Cambridge Audio still have the odd quality control issues with their stuff, despite the factory being IS0 900x certified. The quality of my Chineese speakers is brilliant, and would have cost close to £300 if they were still made in the UK as speaker cabinets are quite labour intensive to make. Mine cost me just £100.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 29 Aug 11 at 16:09
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Ill buy a chinese car if its suitably cheap, any new brand thats an unknown quantity needs to be until it is established, ive never understood why something being chinese must automatically make it crap. Id rather judge each product on its merits.
Im very much looking forward to the Tata Nano coming here, I saw the litte bit about it on that prog recently when the girl drove the local spec Nano, it looke like a bit of a hoot, sort of an indian 2CV.
Good luck to them I say, cars are too expensive, we need more car makers again to shake it up.
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>> The problem with China is not the proper factories but the rogue factories churning out fakes which end up in the legit supply chain.
Hmmm... I wonder how much the fake Porsche 911 RSRs are...
But I agree with (far from idle) chatterer really. All industrial countries made their early big money by producing glittery schlock cheaper than it could be made by hand, and thus spreading a little cheer among those previously deprived of glitter while turning an honest few million sovs.
However to sneer at the potential of Chinese technology or industry is just childish. Any industrial country, and China is now one of the biggest, can produce top quality kit if it wants, and of course China is doing that and will continue to do it.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Mon 29 Aug 11 at 16:36
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But what happens when the genuine factories think they are buying say genuine gearbox bearings but the supplier then reduces the quality of the samples to con the genuine manufacturer? This sort of thing has been happening a lot.
The problem affects China more than any where else because of the fast amount of factories, I also think the authorities probably turned a bit of a blind eye to it for too long. I know the authorities in China are now trying to crack down on the so called legal fakes.
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ok what top quality cutting edge kit, not designed in the west, is china producing?
Does mention the electronics, its all western or taiwan design.
lets try trains.
Actually, I would rather not.
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That is what China will lack for many years, they cannot simply copy Cambridge or Harvard.
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Well all right Zeddo, Japanese or South Korean may well still be better. Don't forget though that Japanese car engineering was for a long time based on aesthetically-weird copies and derivative designs. Where Japan really scored was in mechanized production engineering which it hadn't invented, but carried to new levels of perfection.
Don't expect China not to come up with its own advances in time though. Stands to reason squire dunnit?
Plus, they have short noses, higher IQs than Europeans and don't smell of corpses or dung or whatever it is longnosed devils smell of. The East is Red comrade.
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But what happens when the genuine factories think they are buying say genuine gearbox bearings but the supplier then reduces the quality of the samples to con the genuine manufacturer? This sort of thing has been happening a lot
That would never, ever have happened in the British car and motorcycle industry in its heyday...ever, never :-)
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I am not saying it didn't, but the problem is a lot more wide spread in China, with the amount of fakes I am getting from genuine suppliers. I've nearly already have one customers house burn down.
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>> would never, ever have happened in the British car and motorcycle industry
Quite. The manufacturers quite happily fitted ball races made of putty as original equipment, and went on doing it year after year.
'I say, the unions are cutting up rough again and we're skint. Isn't putty sort of over-engineering? Can't you use clay or something?
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MG - New MG - Stuu
