Some of you with older vehicles may like to see the restoration of the rolling VED exemption for vehicles once they reach 30 years old. This petition apparently needs 100,000 signatures before it's debated in Parliament: epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/183
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I didn't think the VED exemption had ever been 'rolling'. It was always 1972 from the start wasn't it? Which happened to be 25 years back from the date of introduction. I was grateful (although bemused) enough to take advantage of it when it was introduced but I never really understood why it came about. Why should owners of old vehicles not pay for using the road? If they only do a relatively few miles a year they could pay a reduced rate. I never could get used to the word 'historic' on the tax disc of any of my old cars. Interesting yes, historic - not really.
I think the VED exemption is difficult to defend, let alone extend. And I also don't believe in the efficacy of petitions. In my experience of local government a petition with 1,000 signatures is regarded as one objection.
Have you seen the number of e-petitions on that government website? Democracy falling victim to easy comms technology, I fear.
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Thu 18 Aug 11 at 11:14
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Only about 97428 more signatures required!
Will allow to me buy even more old wrecks - you pick the first one that starts!
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>> I didn't think the VED exemption had ever been 'rolling'. It was always 1972 from
>> the start wasn't it?
It was once the 25 year VED exemption and it rolled along quite nicely adding new vehicles a year at a time until 1997 when Gorgon Brown abolished it and therefore arbitrarily fixed classic car status as ending in 1972!
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Don't forget that reaching 100,000 signatures doesn't mean it gets debated in Parliament. It means it will be discussed by a committee who will then decide if it should be debated in Parliament, so there's two stages, not one.
And obviously, even if it gets debated that might mean "Mr Speaker, it has been suggested" followed by "boo" and that's that.
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Scrap tax and shove it on fuel. That way owners of old bangers only pay for what they use and if they choose to run a WW2 GM Truck that does 8mpg on a good day with the wind behind it for 5 days of the British summer then good for them.
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There isn't enough tax on fuel already?
Brilliant idea. If we don't have to display a tax disc no need to bother with MOT or insurance either.
:-)
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Under any set of arguments, from fairness to green issues and on to avoidance of legal requirements, putting ALL motoring expenses onto fuel in the form of a surcharge is the right way to go.
VED
Insurance
etc
All should be lumped onto fuel.
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So what happens when you have significant numbers of electric cars? Do we have the costs spread across our household energy bills? How would that work?
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Ye philistines, the rolling VED exemption helped people who like older cars to make the economic decision to keep them rolling when they reach the age of serious refurbishment work.
Without such a thing the likelihod of the few that make it to historic age will be ever fewer.
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>> Ye philistines, the rolling VED exemption helped people who like older cars to make the
>> economic decision to keep them rolling when they reach the age of serious refurbishment work. Without such a thing the likelihod of the few that make it to historic age
>> will be ever fewer.
Well put! I was merely flagging up the existence of this petition for those with a vehicle approaching the ripe old age of 30 and who might like to add their name to the petition.
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Older cars need to survive because they have some merit, not because they don't pay road tax.
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If VED was abolished for all vehicles and the money recouped from fuel, then we could also scrap the DVLA.
It's true there would need to be some kind of database of all vehicles, but that is already covered by insurance and MOT records.
Registration numbers could be allocated on line. Just like selecting a password when registering on a website. It doesn't need a government department.
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VED or not, if someone really wants to keep their old beige Marina on the road they still can and will. Everyone should pay their way. I won't be signing any petitions.
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Be careful of what you wish for, when road pricing and it's necessary (to prevent terrorism or whatever is the next excuse for increased surveillance) spy equipment replace VED.
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Wonder why we don't lump it into fuel costs.
Be a better solution for uninsured drivers than the legal system is providing us with.
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How would insurance included in fuel price work practically? In terms of claiming in the event of an accident, theft and so on?
I'm finding it hard to imagine without nationalising all insurance companies. Am I being thick?
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It would be RTA only but at least it means everyone would be covered and paying for a minimum cover.
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Oh. You mean a single, national, third party only scheme, paid for when you buy fuel, with drivers able to them buy top up comprehensive insurance seperately?
Is that what you mean?
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>> Oh. You mean a single, national, third party only scheme, paid for when you buy
>> fuel, with drivers able to them buy top up comprehensive insurance seperately?
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>> Is that what you mean?
>>
Yes.
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But who would run such the scheme and how efficient would a monopoly supplier of TP insurance be?
What incentive would anybody have to drive carefully: Your insurance premium could never increase no matter how much damage you had caused.
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>>It was once the 25 year VED exemption and it rolled along quite nicely adding new vehicles a year at a time until 1997 when Gorgon Brown abolished it and therefore arbitrarily fixed classic car status as ending in 1972! <<
Thanks for that. I've now bothered to look it up. That explains why I paid for my 1969 Rover 3500 when I bought it in 1993 but not after that. It's all quite a long time ago...
I don't think an arbitrary date has anything to do with 'classic' car status but I'm certainly not going to get into that debate here.
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>> But who would run such the scheme and how efficient would a monopoly supplier of
>> TP insurance be?
>>
As a government body, the DVLA could run it.
>> What incentive would anybody have to drive carefully: Your insurance premium could never increase no
>> matter how much damage you had caused.
>>
It's a 3rd party insurance so the claims would all be the drivers fault or shared fault, I therefore propose 3 strikes and you're out, licence revoked or further training/test required.
Maybe counting shared blame as half a strike.
Last edited by: Kithmo on Thu 18 Aug 11 at 15:33
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Eventually fuel would reach a price where simply steaing it from cars would become a viable illegal pastime for those keen to avoid paying there way in life, so there's a limit to how much it can be bunged up.
I'm sure the Insurance industry would happily see the MIB covered by taxation instead - I'm not convinced we'd see an immediate £30 per policy drop in motoring insurance (apparently what uninsured drivers cost each insurance policy holder).
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>>Why should owners of old vehicles not pay for using the road? If they only do a relatively few miles a year they could pay a reduced rate
1. It's an incentive to preserve old cars in use. Far more ecological than making new ones.
2. As you imply, old cars invariably do many fewer miles than average (or die quickly).
Part of the reason for getting rid of my 30 year old Land Rover was that it was costing me about 40p a mile in VED to use it for going to the tip and running things around for local events. I certainly wasn't wearing the roads out with it.
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>> 1. It's an incentive to preserve old cars in use. Far more ecological than making new ones.
A bit like the scrappage scheme then ;-)
Preserve old cars - yes. In use - limited use only on safety and environment grounds. Mainly safety.
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VED is just a tax which goes into the general pot.
It has nothing directly to do with motoring, or road use.
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>> Preserve old cars - yes. In use - limited use only on safety and environment
>> grounds. Mainly safety.
>>
Don't even go there. The environment ground is pure twaddle for a start; every classic vehicle on the road is one less melted down for scrap, the carbon footprint for which is far in excess of the one generated by its maintenance as a working vehicle, even in daily use.
I've just come back from riding a 69 year old Harley-Davidson for 1,000 miles round Europe; it averages 45 mpg which is pretty much the same if not better than a modern Harley. My 48 year old pick-up truck pootles round Wales doing local shows and hauling my firewood. The latter only does 15 mpg, but given the limited mileage it does that hardly matters, since I'd have to run a similar modern vehicle to do the same job, or at the very least trade my car in for a Land Rover or similar to pull a trailer.
Secondly, if there was a real problem with safety, how is it that classic insurance is a fraction of that for modern vehicles?
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How does putting insurance on petrol work?
I buy £10 worth of petrol and can then park on the road indefinitely, fully legal with RTA insurance cover?
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>> How does putting insurance on petrol work?
>>
>> I buy £10 worth of petrol and can then park on the road indefinitely, fully
>> legal with RTA insurance cover?
Effectively yes, but as you are not going to run anyone down, you have wasted 10 quids worth of petrol and insurance.
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Restoring the rolling 30 year VED exemption - Mike Hannon
