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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 29 Aug 11 at 19:58
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Hmmm
If you dont have sky, and you want to watch all the GP, it works out thus.
40 quid a month for sky, for which you get 10 GP you wont see on BBC. Works out at 48 quid per GP.
Yeah, a whole shed load of peeps are gonna go for that.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 16:49
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It's not totally clear though it seems that of the races that they dont show live the BBC will show the whole race later in the day ... me, i'll wait.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 16:49
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My interest in F1 has been diminishing by the race but I'll try to watch one on Sky when the time comes just to see what enhancements to coverage they come up with. Anyone remember the test match 'duck'? Or maybe he is still around?
Last edited by: Webmaster on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 16:49
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I've been watching F1 for 30+ years now. However sadly this year could well be my last if only half the races are on free-to-air TV in 2012. There's no way I'm paying BSB a small fortune to watch only 10 races. Watching delayed coverage doesn't do it for me either, whether it's the full race or just highlights.
This year I've paid ~£145 for a TV License which has allowed me to watch F1 and the occasional Top Gear when they are broadcast. With no F1 and being able to watch Top Gear on iplayer catchup, I can't see why I need a TV license at all.
Last edited by: Webmaster on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 16:49
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I agree with Merlin.
I have also watched for 30 + years and the best years were when Mansell was racing.
F1 has become a parade of cars surrounded by controversy so may be its doing me a favour when it goes to sky ! I am certainly not paying Sky to watch it !. The daft thing is that if no one paid to watch then we would get it for free ! its the minority that are willing to pay anything to watch it that spoils it for the rest !
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>> F1 has become a parade of cars surrounded by controversy so may be its doing
Dont think thats true this year, its been the best most exciting GP racing - better than Mansels years
But its still not worth 45 quid per GP - even if Mansel, Hunt, Schumacher, Senna and Fangio were still racing.
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>> Dont think thats true this year, its been the best most exciting GP racing -
>>
You must be easily excited.
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I enjoy F1 especially on a wet Sunday afternoon when there's not much else to do but I'll not be paying to watch. Sorry Bernie but I guess you and Sky'll manage to rub along without my contribution old chap...
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 18:22
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I also used to like the commentary of James Hunt.
Me also easily excited.:)
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I used to stay in for Murray. He was a one off.
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It's going to be so quiet next season without all you silly old curmudgeons - mostly younger than me I would think - binding on moronically about boring processions. And it will be a welcome peace. I fully intend to carry on watching F1.
It's become more technical and a bit more difficult to follow (but not as challenging as ghastly Indy and Nascar rubbish with the totally meaningless commentary and apart from accidents, nothing but long shots and dreary whoom-whoom-whoom closeups). The cars aren't as nice either being a lot of the time inverted aircraft with absurd athletic levels of grip.
Naturally, as anyone would, I preferred it when the cars were more or less cars, real ones, that could be driven illegally on the road and sometimes were, raced by drivers who weren't paid 25 million quid a year and drove in other classes of motor sport without breaching their contracts. It's become more of a spectacle, less of an actual sport, and there's far too much about the far too many rules and regulations.
But it's still the pinnacle of European and world motor sport and it's still interesting. I won't miss your dreary moaning.
OH yes: Murray Walker was very endearing but often silly. I'm happy with today's pundits, or most of them.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 18:49
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>you havent watched them, how do you know?
You havent watched them, how do you know?
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 18:38
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> you must be easily excited
You haven't watched them, how do you know.
is what I meant to type!!!
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It's a fair bet the GPs themselves will be on Sky Sports 1, some of the other stuff possibly on Sky Sports 2.
Both channels are available as an add-on to Freeview.
Prices are currently £19.99 a month for 1, which might do the job, or £29.99 a month for both.
No need for a dish, or even a new box in most cases.
www.topuptv.com/skysports/?gclid=COm2pYLPqaoCFUMf4QodYjAUVg
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I shall be watching a live European feed on the net for free ta very much.
Except of course when its 6am in the morning. I shall be in bed.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 18:51
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I don't understand all this unnecessariness about Sky. There's some cracking documentaries on there..and a load of sport, inc other motor racing...so a subscription isn't 'wasted' just for F1.
I'd understand if someone was fiscally challenged...but how many of you lot are truly in that boat? Not many i'd suggest.
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>> I don't understand all this unnecessariness about Sky.
999 channels of carp mostly. Not got it, dont need it, never missed it.
Certainly none of it is worth 40 quid a month.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 19:00
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...999 channels of carp mostly. Not got it, dont need it, never missed it...
Quote Zero above: 'You haven't watched them, how do you know.'
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>> ...999 channels of carp mostly. Not got it, dont need it, never missed it...
>>
>> Quote Zero above: 'You haven't watched them, how do you know.'
Ah But I can read TV Listings!
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>> 999 channels of carp mostly. Not got it, dont need it, never missed it.
>>
>> Certainly none of it is worth 40 quid a month.
>>
Matter of opinion.
The chance to record HD wildlife/war/crime and other documentaries and my favoured sport i.e. motor sport of all types/cricket and a few others...is well worth it. Worth every penny, couldn't possibly go backwards.
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A lot of HD movie channels from Sky too. Mostly schlock of course, but three channels at least with fairly decent stuff, two or three good films in a week with luck and reruns of classy US TV, The Sopranos, more recently Boardwalk Empire.
It may be necessary to stay up until dawn to see them, but fortunately that is my lifelong tendency.
I understand that Sky technical service is head and shoulders above Virgin or anyone else too. But I can't swear to it personally. The fact that it's an enterprise of the Digger's doesn't make it awful in every way.
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"I understand that Sky technical service is head and shoulders above Virgin"
Having had both, I think you have bad informants. As usual though, its all down to personal experience.
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>> I'd understand if someone was fiscally challenged...but how many of you lot are truly in
>> that boat? Not many I'd suggest.
Me, for one!
Actually I think that a sub to SKY is really only worth it if you are an avid sports fan - which I am most definitely NOT.
Apart from films - most of which I can acquire by other means, it seems that a huge amount of pay TV consists of repeats of old programs from terrestrial channels.
In any event I would be seriously dis-chuffed to pay a hefty subscription to SKY and then be bombarded with advertisements as well.
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... and then be bombarded with advertisements as well...
Adverts can be irritating, but Sky has become adept at lessening their impact.
Movies on the movie channels are shown uninterrupted, as are football games, apart from half-time.
I'm guessing the GPs will be uninterrupted.
The home cricket test matches have ads at the end of an over, which does impair the experience for me, because it interrupts the rhythm of the game, if not the action.
There were very few ads during the Ashes, presumably because most of the action was early-hours UK time which meant advertisers were not so keen to buy slots.
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>>
>> >> I'd understand if someone was fiscally challenged...but how many of you lot are truly
>> in
>> >> that boat? Not many I'd suggest.
>>
>> Me, for one!
And me....
I keep suffering from the 'too much month left at the end of the money' syndrome.....
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>> I don't understand all this unnecessariness about Sky. There's some cracking documentaries on there
Sky doesn't make any documentaries, so the makers usually have them on free to view a few months later.
.
>> load of sport,
Soccer? Yup sky have ruined that sport nicely.
inc other motor racing.
NOt much of it. DO we get BTCC on Sky? no. What about WRC? whats that coverage like?
.so a subscription isn't 'wasted' just for F1.
NO its just wasted. Add your license fee to the total cost* you have to pay. £625 quid per year!
That has to be the worse value for money, ever.
*for basic sky + sports.
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>> NO its just wasted.
I don't understand the vitriol.
It might be a 'waste' to you. It certainly isn't to me and I like the ease of use, the choice and the simplicity... so when I do my viewing I only get quality (quality to me).
Well worth the expense, would be lost without it when it comes to t.v. viewing time.
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for both.
>>
>> No need for a dish, or even a new box in most cases.
Most people will have to buy a CAM for 20 quid first.
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I have two Freeview boxes, both a few years old, both have Sky Sports on the channel list.
So it's just a matter of setting up the payment - same as UK Gold, the Frankie Vaughan, and a few other subscription channels.
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>> I have two Freeview boxes, both a few years old, both have Sky Sports on
>> the channel list.
>>
>> So it's just a matter of setting up the payment - same as UK Gold,
>> the Frankie Vaughan, and a few other subscription channels.
Have you tried plugging in the top up tv card into the freeview box?
There is a hole there where the card will flop about and fall out, because it needs a CAM
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IN fact, they have dropped the CAM now, you will need to buy a complete new box for 30 quid.
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Ive often thought that the only people who dont like SKY are those who havent got it.
Ive had it 8 years now and cant imagine my TV viewing without it.
I find it has great range, from re-runs on a daily basis of whole series to original series which my wife and I thoroughly enjoy. Ive yet to find a time of the day when I cant sit down and find something interesting to watch. The notion that it hasnt any value is somewhat far fetched.
When I stayed at my parents house a few weeks back with their BT Vision set-up, I could barely find anything vaguely interesting to watch.
Given what some people spend of fags or booze, £40 a month aint much by normal standards and you have to be pretty petty minded to not get SKY on some kind of thin principle. Its as successful as it is because its pretty good.
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...and you have to be pretty petty minded to not get SKY on some kind of thin principle. Its as successful as it is because its pretty good...
Good to see the silent majority having their say on here for a change.
I've never understood the 'lots of rubbish' argument.
On that basis, you would never go to a supermarket because you don't want to buy 99 per cent of what they sell.
You go because they have the things you want.
My only problem with Sky is that it can be hard to unearth the good stuff.
I've bought a service which offers the most choice, so it's churlish to complain when they give you what you've paid for.
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In ny case it's nothing to do with principles, I simply don't watch enough TV to even begin to imagine wanting more channels. I frequently wonder who all these people are who seem to have the time to sit around watching endless hours of TV. Chance'd be a fine thing. No wonder so many people are fat.
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>> In ny case it's nothing to do with principles, I simply don't watch enough TV
>> to even begin to imagine wanting more channels. I frequently wonder who all these people
>> are who seem to have the time to sit around watching endless hours of TV.
>> Chance'd be a fine thing. No wonder so many people are fat.
Agreed.
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Ditto. I've used Sky on a relatives box. What struck me was how clunky the interface was. Like Hello magazine - bitty, and inconsequential:)
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>> >> In ny case it's nothing to do with principles, I simply don't watch enough
>> TV
>> >> to even begin to imagine wanting more channels. I frequently wonder who all these
>> people
>> >> are who seem to have the time to sit around watching endless hours of
>> TV.
>> >> Chance'd be a fine thing. No wonder so many people are fat.
>>
>> Agreed.
>>
Me too, I binned Sky years ago. Don't have time to watch much TV, more so now I'm retired. Far more interesting things to do.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Sun 31 Jul 11 at 12:38
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>> I simply don't watch enough TV
That's precisely why I've got Sky. I don't watch a great deal of t.v either....but when I do I want to watch exactly what I want to...not put up with whatever is on the prgramming.
So to queue up all the 'good' programmes, make sure they're HD, then sit down of an evening for an hour or two and watch precisely what we want to watch is brilliant in my book.
My only problem is getting 'er indoors to agree it's 'good'...that sometimes takes a bit of work.
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>> Ive often thought that the only people who dont like SKY are those who havent
>> got it.
DOH YEAH! Do you buy food you dont like?
>> some kind of thin principle. Its as successful as it is because its pretty good.
Its because its got Football. Without it it would soon go out of business.
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>> Ive often thought that the only people who dont like SKY are those who havent
>> got it.
>>
I can live my life without watching loads of TV.. The majority (not all) of SKY subscribers are either sports enthusiasts or people who live their lives through the antics of others...
I prefer to live in the real world with all its faults and have a hobby to keep me entertained... or several hobbies.. (and as a side show meet real people as well).
Sky is similar to the Romans use of bread and circuses to keep the great unwashed amused..in my view.
(With apologies to any/all intelligent SKY viewers)
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I have little to no interest in F1 .
The only way that could change is if the British GP, was similar to the Monaco ie done on the streets say around Birmingham
It could start at Villa park - Up the road, go around the Spaghetti junction , down the M5 and past the NEC, and 20 odd laps, plenty of overtaking, add a few Poland driven lorries into the mix, tyre changes could only be done by the AA/RAC and the drivers have to get out to fill up their own car at the service station.
but each to their own !
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Its WET!
Starting on inters.
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Just watching the build up.
So impressed with Schui, he is seriously into every aspect of the car, he seems to live and breath every aspect of it.
Cant wait for this race.
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does schumy need to wear a baseball cap? surely he doesnt need the money?
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He doesn't need the money but Mercedes do so everybody in F1 and Moto GP has to appear in public looking like a pr*t in a hat! Some Moto GP riders have to wear two at the same time to keep the sponsors happy so they look doubly stupid!
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Team (read sponsors) orders.
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Nice for Jensen to win it on his 200th GP.
Another boring race tho ON.
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 31 Jul 11 at 15:02
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>> Nice for Jensen to win it on his 200th GP.
>>
>> Another boring race tho ON.
>>
It had wet bits, the only thing that relieves the monotony.
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Yeah ON, just another boring procession.
And did you see that disgrace Kobayashi leading a gaggle of tail-enders like an elderly mimser on an A road? I'm surprised they let some of these people near a racing car.
Of course next year it will cost more to watch it on TV than it will to fly to the races in a helicopter.
Tchah!
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>> Of course next year it will cost more to watch it on TV than it
>> will to fly to the races in a helicopter.
>>
>> Tchah!
>>
I don't recollect mentioning the cost of Sky, it is a cheapskates method of watching sport. A true enthusiast would attend the venue.
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so next season the beeb are only showing ten of the races, doesnt make sense, they wouldnt show just half the episodes of a new series of midsummer murders as an example would they?
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Not unusual.
In the Football World Cup for example, BBC will only show some games, ITV will show the others.
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Its hardly the same tho' Bobby. Last time I checked ITV is free to air. (Why would a scot be interested in world cup football anyway?)
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>> so next season the beeb are only showing ten of the races, doesnt make sense,
>> they wouldnt show just half the episodes of a new series of midsummer murders as
>> an example would they?
To be honest, I am surprised there will be any more midsummer murders, they must be running out of villagers to be victims.
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>> it is a cheapskates method of watching sport. A true enthusiast would attend the venue.
Heh heh... OOoooh get her! Nice one though ON.
Perhaps I'm not really a 'true' enthusiast, just a sort of enthusiast.
Have you ever been to an F1 race or other major motorsport track event? It isn't just damned expensive (if you want to be able to go everywhere possible), it's pretty gruelling physically and more importantly in a way, although you might have a good and even close-up view of part of the circuit you can't ever see all of it. It's true that the sounds and scents of racing can only be experienced properly in the flesh. But to follow a race in some detail, TV is about a thousand times better, as well as being agreeably cheapskate - tee hee! - and far more comfortable.
Now I would only go as the guest of a team. And I can't see that happening.
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>> Have you ever been to an F1 race or other major motorsport track event? >>
>>
>>
In the UK it was at Chrystal Palace when John Surtees was a motor cycle champion, Knockhill for the BTCC, and abroad the Daytona 500 and Bathurst 500. I have also attended a few minor events like tractor pulling in the UK and USA. I would not bother with a F1 event, although I have driven around the Monaco circuit in my own car, and more recently in a rental one.
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>> champion, Knockhill for the BTCC, and abroad the Daytona 500 and Bathurst 500.
The Bathurst and a drive down mount Panorama is on the bucket list.
Fortunate to have seen the Freemantle Dockers in an Aussie Rules game, and The Aussies play a Test Match at the Adelaide Oval.
Why do you need to go to a GP? The NOISE! its like nothing you have ever heard,
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 31 Jul 11 at 19:37
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>> The NOISE! its like nothing you have ever heard,
Yes. And the smell of burning racing oil. Hillclimbs are best for that.
Porsche 917s driven in anger are like nothing you've ever heard. Not F1. Even better.
I did drive through part of th Bathurst circuit when in Oz. Mimsing though in a rough motor.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 31 Jul 11 at 23:35
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>> around the Monaco circuit in my own car, and more recently in a rental one.
So that was you, in the blonde thread? Nice rug ON.
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>> So that was you, in the blonde thread? Nice rug ON.
>>
:-))))
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Well this is one for your lottery win thread.
It costs, on average $4k per weekend for the F1 paddock club (where you get to pit walk, best seats, food and drink etc) Add to that your hotel and travel costs, say $4k per weekend ( talking first class here) and we have $8k per race weekend x 20 Grands prix. 160k dollars season.
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>> . . . and we have $8k per race weekend x 20 Grands prix. 160k dollars season.
>>
Just loose change for an overpaid Premiership footballer. (It I'm not just talking about the Wayne Rooneys of this world, either, but the bench jockeys)
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"Have you ever been to an F1 race or other major motorsport track event? It
isn't just damned expensive (if you want to be able to go everywhere possible)"
Endurance racing is cheap. It was the Spa 24 h last weekend, General admission €20, General Admission and Paddock €50, Pit Visit €20. And you get real value for money in time terms. And usually time to get round the whole track to find your favourite viewing spot. And almost empty spectator areas. And you can walk up to and talk to the drivers (many ex F1) and take close ups of cars etc. And park near the track at no extra charge (except Silverstone, IIRC)
The Le Mans 24h is certainly more pricey, ISTR around €80 for the four days, but that also gets you in for test weekend which is pretty much all areas open. Grandstands will cost more but not really essential.
I can see the Beeb picking up on this type of event when F1 goes, and those events becoming much more pricey.
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www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00z8v18/Grand_Prix_The_Killer_Years/
I missed it the first time round, It was on again late last night and is here on Iplayer.
Possibly the best documentary I have seen in ages,
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Was truly excellent! - unbelievable that races continued whilst rescuers were on the track and drivers burnt in their cars! - well done Jackie Stewart and the RDA!
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F1 imposes DRS ban at Spa's famous Eau Rouge corner
& problems with DRS
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14615926.stm
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Final practise live now, track very very wet.
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Now we wait and see why Schumi's wheel fell off and if any action's taken over Maldonado and Hamilton's chumminess.
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Spa is always fabulous.
Maldonado will be lucky to escape a ban. Anyone could win of half a dozen. I will be cheering on our two matinée idols and their honorary and honourable oriental equivalent Kobayashi. The only prediction I will make is that Jenson Button won't spend long at the tail end and could easily make it to the podium. Well, not easily perhaps, but he's certainly up to it barring dodgem stuff.
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>>Maldonado will be lucky to escape a ban.
See the action here
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14694054.stm
Any news yet on the outcome ?
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Pastor Maldonado penalised, Lewis Hamilton reprimanded over Spa qualifying clash
Saturday, August 27th 2011, 16:05 GMT
Pastor Maldonado has been given a five-place grid penalty for the Belgian Grand Prix after his incident with Lewis Hamilton at the end of Q2.
The pair had clashed once at the Bus Stop chicane as Hamilton hurried to complete a flying lap, and Maldonado then appeared to jink towards the McLaren on their following laps as they came out of La Source, with light contact made between them.
Maldonado was adjudged to have been more at fault in the incident and will be moved back from 16th to 21st on the grid.
Hamilton was given a reprimand but receives no penalty. The stewards said both drivers were guilty of "causing a collision" and were punished under article 16.1 of the regulations.
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Apparently the two of them have "history" at Monaco, don't recall it myself...
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I don't either, but something happened.
What was Lewis Hamilton reprimanded for though? Just a formality to save everyone's face? I didn't see him do anything wrong despite the wheel-tap on the last bend in the first session. That was just a racing incident.
Gonna be a good race one must hope.
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>> Apparently the two of them have "history" at Monaco, don't recall it myself...
It was shown after the Belgian GP qualifying to remind people of the incident.
Info also here: www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2011/5/12118.html
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I think Hamilton was a tad lucky. As maldonado went to pass him he clearly jinked towards maldonado. This was picked up by the stewards which is why he was reprimanded. In an interview after he said it was wheelspin which caused this but clearly wasn't, as the direction change came from the front of his car. What maldonado then did was clearly stupid however.
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>> I think Hamilton was a tad lucky. As maldonado went to pass him he clearly
>> jinked towards maldonado.
yeah it all struck me as a handbag fight that was escalating.
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I think its fair to say that in split second situations driving cars with huge blind spots, you can assume one thing and the other is true.
It could be that Madonado thought Hamilton had eased off more and he was already passed him so moved across, could be that Lewis thought Maldonado wasnt going round him or when he jinked right, he suddenly had an omg theres a car there moment so went left again.
I suspect Hamilton got the reprimand because he potentially could have caused an accident, Maldonado got the penalty because he actually did cause one.
Its easy for us to be armchair critics but then we can see an awful lot more than they can, which is easily forgotten.
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>> I think its fair to say that in split second situations driving cars with huge
>> blind spots, you can assume one thing and the other is true.
>>
>> It could be that Madonado thought Hamilton had eased off more and he was already
>> passed him so moved across, could be that Lewis thought Maldonado wasnt going round him
>> or when he jinked right, he suddenly had an omg theres a car there moment
>> so went left again.
True, in isolation. But three events in the space of a minute between the same two drivers is handbags.
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Ko-Bashi is turning into a bit of a liability.
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The DRS zone at Spa has made it too easy to overtake after Eau Rouge. Spa is one place that does not need it.
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Must have been Hamiltons fault, I mean he was there, stands to reason...
Good race for Jenson and Schui looks more on form than ever.
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That battle through Eau Rouge twixt Alonso and Webber, I bet every person in the country watching, breathed in sharply with a drawn out sh..................................................t!
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 28 Aug 11 at 15:15
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Just another over hyped procession involving the usual suspects. A period of rain followed by a drying track may have improved things.
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A procession with lots of overtaking... Specsavers perhaps.
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Did anyone find out why Schui's wheel fell off yesterday?
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>> Did anyone find out why Schui's wheel fell off yesterday?
>>
Cross threaded wheel nut.....wasn't secure enough.
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>> >> Did anyone find out why Schui's wheel fell off yesterday?
>> >>
>> Cross threaded wheel nut.....wasn't secure enough.
>>
Thanks for that W. What's your source?
I thought the nut was integral with the wheel and had a locking device
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>> I thought the nut was integral with the wheel and had a locking device
>>
If it went on crossed, it wouldn't matter if it was integral with the wheel or not....
.... just be easier to find the nut!
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>> Thanks for that W. What's your source?
>>
Part of the BBC commentary, but right at the end, might have been amongst the faffing before the top three give their opinions in the interview
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you should sell your tele on ebay ON, clearly its not showing the right channels.
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>> you should sell your tele on ebay ON, clearly its not showing the right channels.
>>
ON was sat in front of the washing machine watching his pants follow his socks round.
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>> That battle through Eau Rouge twixt Alonso and Webber, I bet every person in the
>> country watching, breathed in sharply with a drawn out sh..................................................t!
That was awesome.
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>> That battle through Eau Rouge twixt Alonso and Webber...
It seemed the coverage on the BBC was saying Coulthard looked away at that point. Thinking it would end in a collision. Nice skilful driving.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 28 Aug 11 at 23:22
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I think my TV gets the same channel as ON's...
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>> I think my TV gets the same channel as ON's...
>>
:-)
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I took a pootle down to Southampton to watch a new (to me) form of motorsport yesterday:
tinyurl.com/3quo3lo
The Formula 1 craft in particular are just incredible. A mix of tweaked Rotax two stroke triples and litre bike engines, some pushing close to 200 horsepower. Good for over 70 mph and they get there pretty quickly too. :-)
Above all though, proper close racing in craft that are astonishing to watch, and to listen to :-) Highly recommended.
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For those who thinks Hamiltons accident wasn't his fault, he disagrees with you ;)
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14701797.stm
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Did you see the replays of that bit of debris taking out Button's mirror at the start? A foot to the left and it could have been very nasty. Scary.
Can't see it on the BBC site, but it's on youtube here at about 0:56
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJeqKCoO6IU
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>> For those who thinks Hamiltons accident wasn't his fault, he disagrees with you ;)
>>
By doing that, he has gone up a few points in my estimation!
Maybe he is finally growing up.
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Sky Sports to show every F1 race live from 2013 - Zero
