One of our managers has just taken delivery of his new company car - VW Passat TDI Estate, which means muggins here is charged with disposing of his previous wheels. A Honda Civic 2.2 diesel Sport. In black with heated black leather seats, panoramic roof, upgrade anthracite alloys and (good) Honda sat-nav, parking sensors, etc. 56-plate and with 109,000 miles, albeit with a full Honda service history.
The bad news is the way the car feels. After 109,000 miles, it feels like it has done more like 209,000. The clear plastic front 'grille' indeed whole front end is a pebbledashed mess that only a re-spray and new panels could sort. The paint elsewhere has lost its shine badly. But on the road the whole car creaks and sounds like half the body welds have fallen out. The stiff suspension (aided by the low profile wheels) won't have helped of course. The windscreen is cracked and needs replacing, but I can't help but wonder if it was the body creaking rather than a stone which caused it.
The internal trim is partly made of metal-look plastic, which now looks like the plastic it always was. Then there's the door handles which just feel, well worn. The engine chugs and runs unevely on start-up like it's done more like 309,000 miles. Anyone want to give me £4,750 for it?
This was all a bit of a surprise to me, and is not what I was expecting from a Honda given their alleged engineering prowess. The chap had a Golf Mk 4 before which felt soo much tighter and fresher at the same mileage. And PSA cars that we have run to the same age also felt far better.
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Isn't the general consensus that the previous model was a better car in many respects? IIRC (and FWIW) the new one has faired less well in the customer satisfaction surveys you see every year.
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Its still looks better knackered than the old one.
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We had 2 of them on our fleet of vehicles at work which i look after and they were a big disappointment. The diesel needed a new gearbox at 12,000 miles and both it and the 1.8 petrol model had numerous and recurring brake and suspension problems and by the time they were replaced at 3 years old they had so many rattles, squeeks and creaks that they were unpleasant to drive. It seems quite widely recognised that this model has dragged down Honda's overall reliability record and reputation.
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Made in England see, I knew all those MG Rover workers would be ok, they found work afterall.
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Early ones seem a mixed bag - the 'Reliability Survey' in the lastest What Car? suggests that they are very reliable (claim data from Warranty Direct I believe) so I presume most of the problems have been sorted.
Honda remains no. 1 out of all makers for reliability apparently.
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Completely different to my daughters previous model then, 2.0S on i think an 04 plate.
Half leather might even be full i can't recall, all in good condition, nothing falling off nothing that doesn't work just as it should, few dings and scratches on the paint, she's added a few of her own, but the black paint is still good.
Previous owner BT fleet so not been molly coddled but will have been properly serviced.
I changed the rear discs/pads when she got it at roughly 95k, can't remember doing the fronts, but i reserviced it a couple of weeks ago and all looks good, so does the suspension and what looks like original exhaust, nothing loose no rust no wear.
I wonder if the so sensible and cheap 195/65 x 15 tyres help with suspension wear and indeed body fatigue by not transmitting every shock encountered on the road.
Now covered around 130k miles, runs perfectly and drives so too, quiet competence would be my two word label for this car.
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I can't comment on the build quality, but this remains the single most horrible car to reverse park / manoeuvre that I have ever driven. For that alone, I wouldn't buy one.
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>> Early ones seem a mixed bag - the 'Reliability Survey' in the lastest What Car?
>> suggests that they are very reliable (claim data from Warranty Direct I believe) so I
>> presume most of the problems have been sorted.
A completely different view from Which Car? who recommend that you avoid the new one and save your pennies to buy the old one.
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I meant early versions of the latest model - the previous one was always bulletproof.
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>> The internal trim is partly made of metal-look plastic, which now looks like the plastic
>> it always was. Then there's the door handles which just feel, well worn. The engine
>> chugs and runs unevely on start-up like it's done more like 309,000 miles. Anyone want
>> to give me £4,750 for it?
>>
I'll offer a fiver.....
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>>I'll offer a fiver.....<<
Thats well outta order. Shame on you.
£5.50 atleast.
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Have a colleague at work who hates his 1.8. Its costing him a fortune and appears to need something doing every 3 months or so. Its an 07 so about 4 years old and has 60K on it, but he has been moaning about t for well over a year. IIRC it failed first MOT on quite a bit.
Another colleague worked for Honda during the design - told me they spent so much on the dash of the civic (way over budget) that lots of other areas were compromised to recover the overspend
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We kept SWMBOs 2007 Civic FN3 2.2 CDTi for 2 years and 9 months and decided to get rid of it before the warrantee expired and whilst it had a surprisingly good trade in value against a Golf VI.
In 11K Miles it was the first car we'd had in 10 years to fail to start (since an MGF with some shared DNA I guess), a completely flat battery caused by an ECU error. The interior trim rattled, the suspension had numerous faults and one of the driveshafts was replaced under warrantee (the final straw). The suspension still clonked and groaned despite countless attempts at rectification and recalls. Plus you just can't see out of the back of them. The whole thing felt fragile and rode like a cart.
Not sure I believe the Hondas are reliable claims, our experience tells me something very different. The dealer were very helpful, just not used to fixing problems with Hondas so not actually very good at it, or maybe the flaws were impossible to fix..... I'll take some convincing before I buy another Honda.
I always loved the looks though and the space-age dashboard worked really well, it was very roomy and quick / economical with the 2.2 CTDi engine which was also refined. The massive compromise (imho) was the suspension.
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Fri 29 Jul 11 at 05:27
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...The massive compromise (imho) was the suspension...
My brother got rid of his Civic mostly because of the poor ride.
Much like the other cars mentioned in this thread, it also creaked and rattled, and needed two or three things doing under warranty.
His Toyota Auris (I know, but he just wants automatic and reliable) - has been faultless so far.
I've not driven it, but a quick look over suggests it's reasonably well-made (in the UK).
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In some ways the Civic was very brave, with it's futuristic (thought unintuitive) dash board creating a good sense of space for the driver, and a radical body shape compared to the previous blue-rinse special. Maybe it was a lack of funds that is the cause of the poor suspension and groaning body-shell? If so, that is surely inexcusable for any car company, never mind one that promotes it's 'attention to detail' in it's engineering.
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>>Maybe it was a lack of funds that is the
>> cause of the poor suspension and groaning body-shell? If so, that is surely inexcusable for
>> any car company, never mind one that promotes it's 'attention to detail' in it's engineering.
Read MikeyB's post 20:18. They had to downgrade to a beam axle at the rear due to lack of funds. It looks like the car wasn't developed properly before it was wheeled out - it may be inexcusable but Honda don't make many mistakes. If they don't learn from this with new Civic models, then I think it would be a bad show. At least the drivetrains are still good. And they don't stop in the fast lane with carp Siemens injectors suddenly failing as you get with VAG cars.
Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 26 Aug 11 at 01:53
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>> Read MikeyB's post 20:18. They had to downgrade to a beam axle at the rear
>> due to lack of funds. It looks like the car wasn't developed properly before it
>> was wheeled out - it may be inexcusable but Honda don't make many mistakes. If
>> they don't learn from this with new Civic models, then I think it would be
>> a bad show.
There is an official Honda video at the WC site - and it clearly shows that the next Civic will still have a beam axle (albeit a modified one)
tinyurl.com/3f6c4r2
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>> >>I'll offer a fiver.....<<
>>
>> Thats well outta order. Shame on you.
>>
>> £5.50 atleast.
>>
£6.00?
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>> >> >>I'll offer a fiver.....<<
>> >>
>> >> Thats well outta order. Shame on you.
>> >>
>> >> £5.50 atleast.
>> >>
>> £6.00?
>>
Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey!
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>> The clear plastic front 'grille' indeed whole front end is a pebbledashed mess that only a re-spray and
>> new panels could sort.
That's not down to build quality, but the way it's been driven. I had to get up close and personal with the front bumper of my minicab's "twin" a few years ago (same age and model of Octavia estate as mine, both on 100k ish miles at the time) and found it had half a dozen stonechips per square inch, compared with my car's half a dozen square inches per stonechip.
I've always found Japanese designed cars to be constructed adequately enough to do the job, and not one iota more.
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I take your point on the stone chips, but the drivers previous cars haven't suffered so badly. Autocar says the new Civic due next year retains the rear beam axle but improves on the comfort and build quality. They need to.
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>> I take your point on the stone chips, but the drivers previous cars haven't suffered
>> so badly. Autocar says the new Civic due next year retains the rear beam axle
>> but improves on the comfort and build quality.
I can't see how it will improve comfort. Most premium sector hatchbacks now have independent rear suspension which makes for a superior ride (as long as the springs aren't rock hard with elastic bands for tyres). One thing Honda should sort out is the road noise - some of their models are terrible for this.
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Technically, independence in suspensions isn't the be all and end all.
It's not impossible that an independant suspension will be poor, and vica versa, it's not impossible for a non-independant suspension to be quite good.
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>> Technically, independence in suspensions isn't the be all and end all.
>>
>> It's not impossible that an independant suspension will be poor, and vica versa, it's not
>> impossible for a non-independant suspension to be quite good.
>>
>>
>>
I quite agree, the Civic FN/FK3's ride is truly awful but similarly suspended Peugeots and Citroens, Toyotas and Vauxhalls (Torsion Beam IIR) of yesteryear all ride acceptably well, it's the Honda that is a poor design.
I read somewhere that one reason for the Torsion Beam was to give better interior space, it certainly is a surprisingly roomy car - just very uncomfortable / noisy as a consequence !
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>> I quite agree, the Civic FN/FK3's ride is truly awful but similarly suspended Peugeots and
>> Citroens, Toyotas and Vauxhalls (Torsion Beam IIR) of yesteryear all ride acceptably well, it's the
>> Honda that is a poor design.
But don't forget that the cars of yesteryear had higher profile tyres and softer coils - there is a trend now for sporty handling with the result that springs are harder/tyres are lower profile. I don't even remember the Capri with it's leaf spring suspended live axle having a particularly bad ride - now imagine combining that with 40 profile tyres.
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Honda Civic UK - Honda Quality? - Focusless
