If I've done it right, the news clip says it all. Very sad.
tinyurl.com/5vxqfqq
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How sad.
Princess Diana would probably still be with us if she'd worn a seat belt.
For the sake of clipping in a bit of cloth I can't work out why some don't bother.
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We learned to drive in Australia where belts were a legal requirement long before the UK, and enforced. People thought we were mad using a belt on our return to the UK but it was a habit we have never lost.
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Its more to do with the driver being medically unfit than seat belts.
He should never have been driving.
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>> Its more to do with the driver being medically unfit than seat belts.
>>
>> He should never have been driving.
>>
And the passengers may have survived if they had been wearing belts and not been thrown out of the car.
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then again they might not, either way they wouldn't have crashed if he wasn't driving would they.
Thats the key point.
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The accident and it's HI story was featured on the Wales news at he time, there was an update last night along with a graphic of a witness' evidence - very traumatic for all concerned. I have a surfing dude nephew who would have known the victim.
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It still amazes me when I see people not wearing a belt, yesterday I noticed a young woman drive out of the petrol station with her belt plugged in but sitting on the lap part so it looked like she was 'wearing' it if viewed from behind.
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>> It still amazes me when I see people not wearing a belt, yesterday I noticed
>> a young woman drive out of the petrol station with her belt plugged in but
>> sitting on the lap part so it looked like she was 'wearing' it if viewed
>> from behind.
>>
A local wise old Mate said recently......."If you think a seat belt is restrictive try a wheelchair"
Yeah well!!
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>> they wouldn't have crashed if he wasn't driving would they.
>> Thats the key point.
I had the same thought Zero. But the crucial thing as far as the driver is concerned is: did he know that he suffered from a 'sleep disorder', so called, that made him liable to sudden blackouts?
If he did, and had been diagnosed, I don't see how he could be allowed to drive.
The problem with things like this is that it may be OK for him to drive when he has slept and eaten in a regular manner, but he may be liable to blackouts when very fatigued. As we all know situations like that can just occur, and people can be tempted to push their luck.
By accounts these were all sympathetic people, if perhaps a bit offhand and careless. In some individuals these characteristics are aspects of a generous and forgiving nature. It does indeed seem very sad.
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quote "we new he had a problem" quote "had not been feeling well"
Seriously would you let him drive after a delayed flight?
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>> For the sake of clipping in a bit of cloth I can't work out why
>> some don't bother.
"It'll never happen to me."
"I'll do as I please."
"I won't get caught."
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>> How sad.
>>
>> Princess Diana would probably still be with us if she'd worn a seat belt.
>>
>> For the sake of clipping in a bit of cloth I can't work out why
>> some don't bother.
>>
Well said, I simply don't understand why no one ever points out that of 4 occupants of the car she was travelling in one survived - the only one to have been wearing a seatbelt.
I wear a belt in taxis, when one isn't available (like in Beijing where taxis habitually jam them under the seat and generally no one uses a belt or a crash helmet) I feel very uncomfortable indeed.
I just don't get the mentality that sees a seatbelt law as an infringement of liberty or seatbelt wearing as an inconvenience. At 30mph you'll very likely be killed or seriously injured if you crash, it astounds me that such attitudes prevail.
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>> I just don't get the mentality that sees a seatbelt law as an infringement of
>> liberty or seatbelt wearing as an inconvenience. At 30mph you'll very likely be killed or
>> seriously injured if you crash, it astounds me that such attitudes prevail.
>>
It's most likely that the real reasons are that people do not wish to be seen as being soft, and also drivers can take offence at passengers wearing seat belts as they feel it's a comment on their competence behind the wheel.
I have come across these attitudes often in Serbia (amongst other places, they also exist in the minds of drunken drivers from whom I have often refused lifts), and I always address it by saying that it's a comment on all the other lunatics on the road, at which the driver usually laughs and agrees.
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Seat belts are much easier to use now than when I started using them in 1965. In those days they weren't retractable and the length had to be adjusted manually each time. The clips were downright fiddly.
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Those things still apply to the passenger seat belts in airliners, but I've never known anyone question the need to wear one. (Jump out of them prematurely after landing, maybe, but that's more about me-first impatience than the belt itself.)
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I'm too young to have ever legally driven without a seatbelt, but the thought of doing so, especially on a fast road, makes me shudder.
The thought of my puny bag of bones basically just perched on a lump of metal, hurtling along at 70 (or even 30, for that matter), ready to be flung through the windscreen at any moment, at the whim of some unobservant road user, makes me feel a bit sick.
I don't know how you guys used to do it! Must have been made of sterner stuff. :)
Last edited by: SteelSpark on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 10:12
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Pre-legislation days, I'd never wear a seat belt in an open car that didn't have a substantial roll cage. I still feel vulnerable in my daughter's MX5.
Have you ever seen what happens to a rolled Herald/Vitesse/Spitfire/GT6? Survivability's very poor.
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>> I don't know how you guys used to do it! Must have been made of sterner stuff. :)
We weren't nearly as stern as some of you young fellows SS. However we did lead charmed lives, those of us who are still around that is.
One did bend a few steering wheels into a near-pretzel shape though, grasping them firmly against the impact.
Even belts and airbags won't save everyone. Someone I knew a bit died of peritonitis a few years ago after a car crash in New England somewhere. He was fat and in his seventies, and ruptured a gut in the impact.
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Pre-legislation days I wouldn't wear a seat belt while driving locally, but would slip into one for a long distance journeys. Silly, really.
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Most modern cars will issue warning chime if front occupants don't wear seat belts.
I think it should be extended for all passengers.
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Fortunately the Lancer doesn't. It treats you like a grown up human being that doesn't needs bongs to tell you what to do.
I cant abide chiming or bonging cars.
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Is it VWs that won't release the parking brake unless the driver's belted?
I know it's illegal but I'm more comfortable reversing across the raod and into my drive, at walking pace, unbelted.
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>> I know it's illegal but I'm more comfortable reversing across the raod and into my
>> drive, at walking pace, unbelted.
>>
I can see my mirrors with my belt on.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 15:38
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I know it's illegal but I'm more comfortable reversing across the raod and into my drive, at walking pace, unbelted
I think it is actually legal to be unbelted while performing a manoeuvre that involves reversing - it's certainly not a 'fail' to do so during a driving test.
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I don't like chimes and bongs either. My car makes a lot though, and two or three are useful: the increasingly rapid beeping when reversing within a yard or so of any object, a chime when e.g. the rear door has not been fully latched, a chime if you open the door without removing the key from the ignition lock, a chime if you open the door with any lights still on.
Oh yes, and if the remote doesn't work (this happens from time to time) and you open the door with the key in what used to be the normal way, the car starts yelling and howling that it is being stolen or molested until you start the engine. I think the time delay is five seconds, but it's quite difficult to get there in time to stop the first cries of Help! Rape!
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 15:49
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My cars keys open the door without using them if that makes sense.
Strange problaby never get used to them.
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>> I cant abide chiming or bonging cars.
Me neither. First thing I did with the Transit Connect in the works car park was to go on the internet to find out how to disable the seat belt warning. Other people have subsequently done it with the Focus's (Foci?) as well.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 16:58
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You'd hate BMWs then, different timbre chimes have a habit of going off. Different tones for the reverse and front sensors arrrgh !
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>> You'd hate BMWs then, different timbre chimes have a habit of going off. Different tones
>> for the reverse and front sensors arrrgh !
Now what's the point of that? don't BMW drivers know when they are going forwards or backwards?
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>> Now what's the point of that? don't BMW drivers know when they are going forwards
>> or backwards?
>>
Actually, it's not a bad idea. If you are doing a manouver in a car park, say, then you could be getting close to vehicles both at the front and the rear of the car. You could be looking over your shoulder while reversing and be alerted to obstacles that the front of your car might be getting close to as you swing around.
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>> You'd hate BMWs then, different timbre chimes have a habit of going off. Different tones
>> for the reverse and front sensors arrrgh !
>>
The one that used to get me was the ice warning "bong". Nearly jumped out of my skin every time.
Still, I suppose if you have rear-wheel drive ...... ;-)
'course the sensible ones get a four-wheel drive BMW! :-)
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>> The one that used to get me was the ice warning "bong". Nearly jumped out of my skin every time.
Yep. That one never fails to get me.
The seatbelt chime though is really annoying. My underground parking space is quite narrow and requires carefuly maneouvring to get into and out of. I prefer to do this without the seatbelt and the resulting seatbelt chime combined with the beeping parking sensors is hugely annoying. Looked in the internet to see if there's some way of disabling the seatbelt chime but not found anything.
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>> I prefer to do this without the seatbelt and the resulting seatbelt chime combined with the beeping parking sensors is hugely annoying.
Perhaps one should make a virtue of necessity. Anyone heard a real klaxon, like a powerful tenor or contralto doing the Projectile Vomiting scene in a modern opera (yet to be written alas) based on The Omen?
One of those, decently loud, hooked up to your Prius's reverse gear switch would satisfy the needs of health & safety while also satisfying any tendency to automotive Tourette's. It would sound particularly juicy in an underground car park.
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>Anyone heard a real klaxon ... It would sound particularly juicy in an underground car park.
I always wanted one of those, AC, in the days when I cycled to work on cycle paths marked on wide pavements. I kept strictly between my lines, but there were always a few pedestrians who couldn't stay within theirs. A tinkly bell, or an "I say, would you mind awfully" never quite did the situation justice, I felt.
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>> >Anyone heard a real klaxon ... It would sound particularly juicy in an underground car
>> park.
>>
>> I always wanted one of those, AC, in the days when I cycled to work
>> on cycle paths marked on wide pavements. I kept strictly between my lines, but there
>> were always a few pedestrians who couldn't stay within theirs. A tinkly bell, or an
>> "I say, would you mind awfully" never quite did the situation justice, I felt.
>>
One of these?
tinyurl.com/6y2gvlk
Might get you a broken nose though. :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 30 Jun 11 at 10:06
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>>One of these? tinyurl.com/6y2gvlk
It says: Air horn clamps to your bike's handlebar or wheel
I'd like to see how that works when fitted to a wheel. ;>)
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Yes please, one of those - although that one seems to have to be pumped up by hand between uses, unless I'm misreading the picture and you just push the plunger to sound the horn.
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Funny you should say that AC - went to see the Welsh National Opera's choristers in a concert last night. Absolutely brilliant sound au naturel (in the acoustic sense - no microphones or PAs)
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What car have you got BP? I found the sequence for the MkIII Mondeo pretty easily.
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>> What car have you got BP? I found the sequence for the MkIII Mondeo pretty easily.
A BMW E60. Not found anything in the internet and dealer (obviously) refuses to do it.
Would also like to disable the interlock that stops you engaging drive or reverse without the brake pedal being pressed. I don't know why this annoys me so much, but it does.
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A quick Google suggests that the trigger thresholds for airbags etc. might be set at different levels when the driver's belt is unplugged. That could of course just be scaremongering, who knows? A seatbelt chime is, of course, crucial to a higher Euro NCAP score too. It surprises me that some cars have an easy method of disabling the chime whilst others don't.
FWIW teh Mondy method is:
Ignition on.
Plug and unplug belt three times in quick succession.
Headlights on.
Plug and unplug belt three times in quick succession.
Headlights off.
One beep will emanate from the instrument panel.
Plug and unplug belt once.
Two beeps. Done.
I have no idea if a similar sequence may work on yours, but it's free to try it :)
I disabled mine because as I lock up at work I have to bring my car out of the yard in stages, locking gates behind me as I go. I really don't need to put my belt on every time I move the car forwards.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 19:22
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>> I have no idea if a similar sequence may work on yours, but it's free to try it :)
Different method for the Transit Connect.
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>> >> I don't know how you guys used to do it! Must have been made of sterner stuff. :)
I'm not sure we knew any better - being young/daft/indestructible in those days helped.
>>
>> We weren't nearly as stern as some of you young fellows SS. However we did
>> lead charmed lives, those of us who are still around that is.
>>
>> One did bend a few steering wheels into a near-pretzel shape though, grasping them firmly
>> against the impact.
>>
A few of us bent a steering wheel with our face, never mind grasp.
Neither the wheel nor the visage improved by the incident, and the less said about the front of the mini the better.
Last edited by: AnotherJohnH on Thu 30 Jun 11 at 05:03
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The thing which spurred me to fit seat belts in 1965 and to wear them was seeing a driver with a steering column stuck in his chest.
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Somewhat ironically the only serious injury that I have ever sustained in my life was as a result of tripping over a seatbelt (the non- inertia reel variety) when emerging from the back seat of a friends's mini back in the early seventies. I broke my arm.
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If people like us think disabling seat belt warning chime is a good idea then should we wonder when common public thinks wearing seat belt is optional?
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Just goes to show, CGN - the things are dangerous and shouldn't be allowed. Reminds me of John Mortimer, whose objection to wearing one was that it would (not might) trap him inside when the car caught fire. Not that you're objecting, of course.
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People die in very mundane ways. Mind you not wearing a seat belt is of benefit to someone waiting for an organ or three.
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As is riding a m'bike.
I suppose the person who elects not to wear at seat belt is contributing to their own fate, whereas many motorcyclists injuries are a result of other road users incompetence.
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And plenty more are self-selecting organ donors.
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Always wear your seat belt - Westpig
