Just a bit of fantesy at the moment, but the Fiestas MOT is due in August, I need to give it a mini service and Italian tune up (its juddering badly) but I am hoping its nothing some new plugs, redex and air filter can't fix.
It also has the usual rust issues plus god knows what else, so there is a chance it is going to the scrappy in August.
What would you buy for £500? It must be:-
No bigger than a focus
Have power steering (my dad arms due to accidents)
Have a none interference engine or be chain driven.
Be no older than an R reg
Have a good source of cheap parts and be easy to fix.
Have a suspension which is not made out of chocolate
NCAP 3* or above.
Any ideas?
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Accent, Lantra, Shuma, Mentor, Persona, Wira, Daewoo various models.
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Go and have a look at the Old Cock garage on Chester Road...on the right just before the tip.
My mate knew the previous owner and now someone else has it. Seem to be some nice looking cars...52 Megane £500 and a 52 Micra about the same.
Ted
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The problem is NCAP is a little bit of an issue, because my mother is fussy. Now I have told her that the Fiesta won't perform like a 3 star NCAP because its made of rust, but so will anything else.
An Almera would be a good choice, but would need to be a MK2, the originals rusted faster than Fiestas.
The Lanos might be an ok bet, I assume these use the standard 8v GM engines so if the belt snaps it doesn't hit the pistons?
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 27 Jun 11 at 23:29
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your mum has no idea what is an ncap three and what isn't.
the current rust trap is an NCAP -7 and she is happy with that.
NCAP is not an issue.
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She dosn't feel safe in it, but then she hasn't seen I lifted the carpet up once and saw the road through it :p:. OK that was an exaggeration but it was very rusty.
And yep the current car will be a death trap, even the sills are welded, but then I've seen a lot worse.
That Almera ooks very tidy for the money, it looks like one of the newer ones with better rust protection too. I think it was the original 95-97 models which suffered badly from rusting sills.
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S-reg Almera in your neck of the woods, £495:
cgi.ebay.co.uk/320718512574
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 27 Jun 11 at 23:30
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Only about five miles away, I even know the road its on. Just round the corner one where I got blocked in a couple of weeks ago.
Just a shame it will be about six weeks we will be in the market for it, but then cars like that will always turn up.
The current shed might just pass, despite all its faults, the brakes, clutch, gearbox and engine are all fine so there is an element of better the devil you know, e.g a free shed is better than an expensive one.
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I wouldn't be making too much of an issue of chain cam, this budget means buy on condition, whatever turns up that's been well cared for consider it.
I've suggested Hyundai in particular as my experience is that they are very reliable, reasonably simple and unless you go for a sporty job the suspensions are soft and pliable enough to cope with our third world local roads, Daewoo's suspenders soft too.
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The Lanos is a seriously horrid drive though, the manual box is terrible, the car is quite a chore to drive, even when new. As a banger even I wouldnt buy one.
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Probably still an improvement on the Fiesta.
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The Fiesta still drives nice when its running properly, the gearbox is extremely slick, handling is very good (same chassis as the Puma/Ka) and all the controls still feel tight. The main thing I fond with driving it is despite its power steering the steering was heavy, but that is probably due to its stupid over wide slick alloys (Ghia spec).
But it this way the Fiesta was a nicer driver than my Corsa was, but the Corsa was more comfortable. My dad is a bit fussy, and he hated the vague GM gear change of my Corsa but it had a cable clutch, so may have been partly that.
That said he's had two Ladas so he can't complain too much!
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>> The Fiesta still drives nice when its running properly
But it isn't.
>> the gearbox is extremely slick, handling is very good (same chassis as the Puma/Ka)
It's an R reg Fiesta.... it handles poorly by modern standards when it was new.
>> all the controls still feel tight.
? What controls? Brakes? Steering? Gears? Heated rear window? :-)
>> probably due to its stupid over wide slick alloys (Ghia spec).
Are slick tyres allowed on the road? Oh these are slick alloys. What are they? ;-)
>> But it this way the Fiesta was a nicer driver than my Corsa was
Corsa was a worse car than the Fiesta then. Does that make the Fiesta any good with all that rust. It sounds like a death trap to me.
The Nissan looks good to me. The Fiesta will need replacing soon won't it. Consider it soon.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 00:28
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Steering has a lot of feel and no play, brakes are fine (everything has been replaced in the past two years anyway, I think only the master cylinder is original, which is starting to rust :( ).
Just not convinced any other £500 banger will be any better because I have nothing to compare it with.
The Kia Rio is a car I have just thought off, too but probably out of budget.
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As a banger even I wouldnt buy one.
>>
Never thought i'd see that post, just off for a lie down in a darkened room.
Showing yer youth now Stu, ee when i were a lad we'd've been glad o'.....
:-)
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The Almera is probably a good bet, because although I've never driven one people who have owned seem to like the way they drive. I did go and see one a couple of years ago, but it was too rusty so didn't even bother with a test drive.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Mon 27 Jun 11 at 23:54
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There are quite a number of 02 Almeras around our way (I think a local used car dealer got a batch before the launch of the then upgraded model) and they all appear immaculate. Certainly the owners have each owned them for several years.
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Almera's seem indestructible. 3 things make me think that:
- there's plenty of old ones about
- a busy mechanic says he's never had to attend a breakdown for one or do any repair jobs on one, ever, just servicing is the only time he sees them he says
- M's brother has one and abuse doesn't cover half of it, treated lower than a washing machine by a long margin, it's never let him down
My only concern would be parts prices, and for that reason alone i'd plump for either a 306 (which i'm convinced are hewn from granite, rattly trim excepted) or a Punto.
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I had a peek on Autotrader and it seems to have some Honda Civics, Mazda 323s, Nissan Almeras, a few VW Polos and Golfs with high mileage and a rather decent looking Hyundai Accent. There's lots of 306s as well.
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Kia Pride.
Oh, sorry - I thought it said £50 ;}
Last edited by: Dog on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 08:37
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I drove a car that I was happy with onto a campsite in France-the guy on the next pitch said to me"you've got one of those-not very good,are they!" When I'd finished putting up my tent,I took him out in it and he agreed that it was a nice car.I asked him why he thought it was no good and he said his neighbour had told him they were no good.I asked the obvious question and his neighbour hadn't owned one either!
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A Peugeot 306 would be a good choice. Lovely to drive, reliable, they don't rot, and if you go for the 8v TU engine (1.4 or 1.6) it will soldier on to huge mileages without grief.
A few seconds on Autotrader shows a fair choice within budget. Should get you a 97-99 car with 100k ish and a long MOT. If you can stretch to £600-£650, it opens up a lot more options.
Use GSF or Neat for parts, and they cost no more to maintain than a Ford.
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Another vote for the 306 (or it's close cousin the Citroen ZX).
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>> Kia Pride.
>> Oh, sorry - I thought it said £50 ;}
OI!
But then again: tinyurl.com/6lxl7y9
;>)
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>>OI!
But then again: tinyurl.com/6lxl7y9<<
Good jam jars Bob - Mazda innit.
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I think the answer is, theres lots of options.
I might be tempted by a Toyota Starlet if there was one about that hadnt been on the take-away delivery run, they are pretty bullet-proof.
Last edited by: FoR on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 09:58
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>> I might be tempted by a Toyota Starlet if there was one about that hadnt
>> been on the take-away delivery run, they are pretty bullet-proof.
>>
Agreed, one of the best quality small cars every built.
Unfortunately most good one owner examples were crushed with the idiotic scrappage scheme.
A 35k one lady owner minter at one Cambs dealer the mechs were almost in tears, criminal waste of a fine car.
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They still seem to hold their value having had a quick look on AT, although theres a few around at £500 ish.
I think if I were going back to bangers again, id take some time to source a Starlet, owners seem to adore them.
As an alternative, the Corolla wasnt too bad either, 1.3 wouldnt be any more to run I shouldnt think. My in-laws cried when my brother-in-law wrote theirs off ( 1998 R reg, almost mint, 90k ).
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I do like the idea of a 306, they can be troublesome when they reach 100k but to fair the examples I have known personally have all been diesels.
My mates did hit 170k though before the head gasket went.
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>> they can be troublesome when they reach
>> 100k >>
>>
Really annoys me when people assume 100k means knackered, Rattle, none of your cars have hit 100K and that have died long before their time as so will your Panda.
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>>Really annoys me when people assume 100k means knackered, Rattle, none of your cars have hit 100K and that have died long before their time as so will your Panda.
Dosn't annoy me, 100k means bargain!
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>>
>>
>> Dosn't annoy me, 100k means bargain!
>>
Well it does to me too, suppose I better let them get on with it. The yearly depreciation of the cars my colleagues drive, would cover my mortgage costs!
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>> I do like the idea of a 306, they can be troublesome when they reach
>> 100k but to fair the examples I have known personally have all been diesels.
A colleague had just shy of 180,000 miles from a Phase 1 8 valve 2.0 XSi. It was actually ultimately wrecked by the garage who broke one of the alternator mounts off the engine block when servicing it. Cost more to find and install a serviceable engine than it was worth, plus it was starting to need some serious money invested in the rear suspension by that point.
I wouldn't bat an eyelid at the prospect of a well serviced 100,000 mile 306. The later 16 valve engines were a bit more problematic, but the 8 valve stuff, and diesels are bombproof.
Last edited by: DP on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 12:37
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DP - whats wrong with a 150k model! :)
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>> DP - whats wrong with a 150k model! :)
Dammit, you spotted it.
Rear suspension rebuild/rebush often required beyond 150k, which can exceed the value of the car to get done properly.
That said, it's a small price for one of the best FWD chassis ever.
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tinyurl.com/6asgnlp
or
tinyurl.com/3pvvcp2
or
tinyurl.com/6h7zbpd
There's loads for £500!
All the above links to Autotrader
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A mate did the Scum Run last year - charity rally round Europe where you are not allowed to spend more than £500 on the car. He got a BMW 735 and it performed faultlessly.
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...A mate did the Scum Run last year - charity rally round Europe where you are not allowed to spend more than £500 on the car. He got a BMW 735 and it performed faultlessly...
Friend of mine did a similar event in a Volvo 760, which also performed faultlessly.
He sold the car/gave it away when he reached Italy, but only because he couldn't be bothered to drive it home.
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A BMW 735 isn't really practice for the tight streets of Manchester though is it? My dad found the Escort too big even!.
As I said we may keep the Fiesta if it passes with less than £250 worth of work, it is just if there is anything else we don't know about it won't be worth it.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 12:55
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Here you go, Rats:
tinyurl.com/3osabc9
Proper job.
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>> Here you go, Rats:
>>
>> tinyurl.com/3osabc9
>>
>> Proper job.
Yeah, funny how its got a big clock with no second hand next to the speedo
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That's because it's a manual; the auto has a calendar.
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Laugh if you like; 340's are a bit rare now but a IMO very good car indeed. Rattle's mum would be swayed by the fact that it's a Volvo and therefore safe (and they're solid enough!) and dad might be pleasantly surprised by the very good seats and visibility, together with good access and egress.
I owned two; avoid the auto because they are admittedly glacially slow, but a tidy 5-speed GL would be worth keeping. Huge boot, too; I got 35 mpg overall BTW, bit heavy by today's standards but if he only drives it round town it won't really matter.
£300? Absolute bargain; keep it for a year, if it passes another test fine, if not scrap it. You'll have had your money's worth.
Last edited by: Harleyman on Tue 28 Jun 11 at 17:28
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You should get some cracking bangers for £500. I like the pork ones with herbs or apple in them.
I like a couple of plain Richmond porks when doing a camping fry-up and Cumberlands are the tops.
Have I missed the point of this discussion again ?
Ted
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Ha yes :P.
As for the 340 suggestion, a bit old and remember it needs to be light, my dads arms are made out of metal rods and pins, he can drive cars without PAS but it is a very big struggle for him.
Favourites are far are probably the XU 306 and the Almera. No point on looking at Focuses for £500 they will all be sheds of the worse kind.
If £600-£700 will get something so much better then there is a chance the budget can be upped.
All it all depends on the MOT though know my dads preferred option is just to keep it, he only gets rid of his cars when either the engine blows up or its too much work for the MOT.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 00:17
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You want the TU 306, Rattle. The XU was only used in the performance models, and the auto 1.8 IIRC. It was also the basis for the later 16v units in the Phase 2 models.
The 1.6 TU works really well in the 306. Lively enough, and pretty economical. I had a 1.6 LX for a couple of months as a temporary company car. Good all round package.
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Make sure that you get an insurance quote on a Pug first tho!
Several companies recently were offering silly prices for a a friend who is a mature driver with a reasonable driving record. The 306 and 205 are apparently seen as boy racer cars and influence some prices.
Whether the same applies to a ZX I do not know. 2 years ago Aviva seemed to have an anti Citroen (Picasso & Synergie) policy - premiums went up by over 60% in a year with no claims or history! They lost my, and another friends, business through that.
I suppose that if you are losing money on car insurance the answer is to loose business if you are not smart enough to cherry pick :)
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Watch the 340 for rot in the sill (rear) area. Complicated 3 skin structure - inner web rots out and makes it more than a patch job if you do it properly.
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Spot on, Harleyman. The point about comfort and visibility is well made. The seats in my 1986 360 are easily the best in any car I've owned, including much, much more modern cars.
Last edited by: Alanović on Wed 29 Jun 11 at 10:31
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The seats of the 340 were comfy and i think they're pretty roomy inside too (although i was about 10 the last time i was in one). The boot's pretty huge if i remember right.
Just checked AskMID, my mum's old one's no longer knocking about :-(
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Owned a 360GLT once, lovely car. Rode like a much bigger car, felt safe, reliable. IIRC the seats had lumbar adjustment. Bad back? Buy a Volvo.
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The seats in my old S60 make everything I've been in or driven since feel almost utilitarian. Truly all day comfy.
Volvo used to make a big thing in their advertising that the seats in all their models were "orthopedically designed". I don't know about that, but I do know that I once drove the S60 for 400 miles without stopping, and got out feeling fresh as a daisy. Not a single twinge or even hint of numbness.
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I can recommend a 306 as well - had a diesel a few years ago with something close to 200k on the clock at the time and it was problem free. Very comfortable and good to drive too.
As a left of field alternative how about a Saab 900 ;) No problems with mine yet, very comfortable, and ticks the safe box. Just a case of living with fuel costs....
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Well we are slightly flabbergasted to receive an MOT certificate for it today. It has some advisories, it needs two new tyres (which I knew about), needs a new CV boot, has a slightly leaking shock and the rust on the arch was flagged up.
Was told to cut away the arch myself and just use filler to bodge it up, apparently that will be enough for the next years MOT. No welding is required.
Getting the new tyres tomorrow.
Emissions passed with flying colours so hopefully all things considered it might last another year. We are very pleased, as we only bought the car to last three years, we have now had it for four years and while it does feel like a clapped out shed, at least it keeps my dad in work for a bit longer.
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Well done, I expected it to fail on emissions. Everything else can be bodged up pretty cheaply.
>> It has some advisories, it needs...
It doesn't need those parts to keep going, it only needs them to return it to as-new condition. It's not new, so as-new condition is an unrealistic goal. Compared to MoT tests a decade or two ago, the standards are now so strict that a car can be considered to be in pretty good condition if it passes a current one.
They're right about the rusty arch, it's not structural so as long as there are no sharp edges it'll be OK. It doesn't even have to be painted the same colour as the rest of the car (although of course obvious cheaply primered repairs mark the car out for closer inspection by next year's tester or traffic plod in the meantime).
>> at least it keeps my dad in work for a bit longer
Which is what it's all about. One less thing on your plate for a while, anyway.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Mon 1 Aug 11 at 20:09
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Will be getting Khumo tyres, seem to be best compromise between price and wet performance. We were nearly killed when a tyre blew out in the Lada so it tyres is not something we will take a chance on.
Don't know how bad the shock absorber is, and if it is affecting the performance of the suspension, so we may leave that for a bit.
Matching the colour is going to be very hard, but I shall do my best, the arch is already a bit of a plod magnet (although there is no longer any coppers).
CV boot is best changed for obvious reasons.
At least there is no danger of my Panda being twocked now :D.
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I agree with Dave. Sort the rear arch and tyres, and forget the rest. If it makes you feel better, jack the car up once a month and check the CV boot to make sure it hasn't completely fallen apart.
Changing a CV boot is beer money in terms of parts, but is fairly labour intensive, so I really wouldn't worry about it unless the boot completely disintegrates and grease is being flung out of the joint.
This car is at the point now where you won't see anything you spend on it back in terms of resale value, so the trick is to keep it running and roadworthy for as little as possible.
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...This car is at the point now where you won't see anything you spend on it back in terms of resale value, so the trick is to keep it running and roadworthy for as little as possible...
Sound advice.
Could the CV boot be bodged in some way to make it last a little longer?
Maybe a couple of cable ties and a sheet of something suitable.
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The CV boot can't actually be split - that would be a fail.
It must be perished - most likely cracking in the base of the folds. Until it splits, it remains servicable.
Keep an eye on it, and replace the boot as soon as it splits - this way, you only need to fit a CV boot rather than a complete CV joint - they don't last long once grit gets in to the joint.
I don't quite share Dave TDCi's view of the changes in the MOT. Most aspects of the MOT have been largely unchanged for a long time. The MOT has changed simply by there being more test aspects added to the list. So, for example, the MOT's ruling on the condition of CV joint gaiters hasn't suddenly become significantly more strict, wheras, for example 30 years ago, the condition of the windscreen wasn't tested in such a prescriptive manner as it is now.
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Is there a way to change a cv boot without removing the drive shaft from the hub? I know about the stretchy boot trick but I'm sure I saw a product that could be applied over the drive shaft. That can't be though because how would you seal the boot which would have to be split along it's length to fit.
Tried googling it but not coming up with anything.
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I think the CV boot is the MOT garage equivalent of 'needs all new pads and discs sir'.
I used to get billed for that every other year when we had the Legend coupe. I don't think he ever actually changed it but he never found anything else wrong and it was worth the equivalent of £15 quid a year to keep him sweet.
Incidentally, after I failed completely to find my s-i-l a decent cheapie car to use over here for a few weeks a year she went up the road at home in the UK and found an absolutely lovely Toyota Carina E with new tax, 2 new tyres and 10 months ticket for £450. I could weep.
Last edited by: Mike Hannon on Tue 2 Aug 11 at 12:47
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I don't think it cost me much when I got the boots changed on my Corsa.
We will see how much it costs anyway.
What annoys me is that the CV joints are only two years old, seems a bit soon for the boots to perish.
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>> Is there a way to change a cv boot without removing the drive shaft from
>> the hub? I know about the stretchy boot trick but I'm sure I saw a
>> product that could be applied over the drive shaft. That can't be though because how
>> would you seal the boot which would have to be split along it's length to
>> fit.
These Stickyboots are available. The boot is indeed split along its length, with a tongue and groove joint which you "make" with the boot in-situ, using the glue supplied in the kit.
The principle problem is that the glue and joint need scrupulous cleanliness to work, and that's not easy to achieve when working in a cramped environment in direct proximity to a joint that's packed with sticky grease.
I used one on my old mk2 Cavalier with good success, but it's a fiddly job, and not one for those lacking patience.
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DP. You're the only person I've ever heard of to have any success with those things.
It seems there was a dodgy batch of CV boots a few years ago. I had to change some within a a couple of years of replacing them. I spoke to those 'in the trade' and they had similar experiences.
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I have sucessfully used one. Observed scrupulous cleanliness and fitted from a pit.
They have apparently a bad reputation in the trade - whether it is because they deprive garages of labour hours, or that garages cannot be bothered to meet the cleanliness standards. Possibility the view is coloured because the garage trade will only see those that have failed following poor DIY efforts.
I cannot understand how you could not find them from Googling -
www.carparts-direct.co.uk/home/cv-joint-boot-kit in about 15 seconds. (about 60,000,000 results from 'split boot kit'
Ebay - plenty of UK options and a lot of of USA suppliers search 'split boot kit'
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One point I've since discovered about Almeras (up to around 2002 before the facelift) is that rusting of an engine cross member is very common and, obviously, will fail the car in an MOT.
A good mechanic will replace the cross member and thoroughly protect it for maximum life length.
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Best bangers for £500? - Zero
