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As the title suggests, a place to discuss Formula One, and all other types of motorsport (excluding MotoGP, which has a section of its own).
PLEASE NOTE:-
To try and maintain some kind of logical order of discussion, if you start a new subject then reply to this post and remember to change the default subject header.
Last edited by: VxFan on Sat 30 Jul 11 at 03:55
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Just spotted this story on the Mail Online website, presumably for Monday's edition:
tinyurl.com/6ah2z27
Some may say they got their money's worth last time...:-)
Last edited by: Stuartli on Sun 19 Jun 11 at 23:27
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At that price I would be quite happy if they let it go.
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If they got rid of the programmes like Casualty, Holby, Eastenders first.
Apart from the news, Doctor Who, soon to be new series of Torchwood... F1 is about all else I'd watch in a year... on the BBC.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Sun 19 Jun 11 at 23:50
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>> At that price I would be quite happy if they let it go.
>>
About 15p per household per race? Sounds cheap compared with Sky, which I will not be forking out for. Ever.
I assume all the people who moan about the licence fee, while paying Sky up £100 per month have trouble with numbers.
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www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92513
Formula 1 chiefs have agreed to delay the introduction of new engine regulations until 2014, in a move that will see the sport switch to 1.6-litre V6 turbo power-units.
Should sound better than the previously proposed turbo fours, more symetrical instaltions as well!
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>> Should sound better than the previously proposed turbo fours, more symetrical instaltions as well!
Also holds out the prospect of simplified and detuned but creamy and potent road car engines... fingers crossed.
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>> Also holds out the prospect of simplified and detuned but creamy and potent road car
>> engines... fingers crossed.
>>
Doubt their will be much of a direct crossover and a 1.6 V6 is not the ideal config for a road engine.
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On the bbc site they are listing power outputs of 750BHP with 600BHP of that from the engine.
How is that kind of power possible from a 1.6ltr V6.
Cant wait to see that power in a family hatch .:)
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/13878359.stm
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Thats sort of power is easy in F1. The old 1.5 litrr turbos of the mid 80s could make 1000bhp in quali trim, though that can't happen now as the teams are no longer allowed to change the engine map between quali and race.
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>> Thats sort of power is easy in F1. The old 1.5 litrr turbos of the
>> mid 80s could make 1000bhp in quali trim, though that can't happen now as the
>> teams are no longer allowed to change the engine map between quali and race.
>>
Actually as much as 1500 bhp though the engine was only good for a few quali laps, they needed a new one for the race.
Today an engine has to last for around 3 race meetings, practice, quali and the race.
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>>How is that kind of power possible from a 1.6ltr V6.
The short answer is rpm.
Edit - just read the story and they are turboed. So if they are only making 750bhp it can only be because they are restricted.
The power is a function of the compression/boost/rpm.
Last edited by: Manatee on Wed 22 Jun 11 at 20:20
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The engines are also made to much higher precision than a road car's engine. The pistons only just fit in the cylinders and are able to move when the engine has been warmed up.
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Single turbo, strange decision on a V config inline engine.
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Not if the intake is on the inboard side of the heads and the exhaust on the outboard.
What is a V configuration inline engine? It can't be both.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Thu 30 Jun 11 at 23:02
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Apparently the teams wanted V engines because they are simpler to package as a stressed member of the chassis. That said, why not give the engine makers some freedom ie: define the capacity and aspiration (1.6 turbo) and then let the manufacturers do what they want. If they want to try a w16, v3, m10, whatever, let them try. Might add some of that unreliability that Trulli was hankering after in a recent interview.
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>> What is a V configuration inline engine? It can't be both.
>>
Fore and aft, rather than athwartships?
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>> Not if the intake is on the inboard side of the heads and the exhaust
>> on the outboard.
>>
Actually the other way around, if the intake is on the outboard side of the heads and the exhaust inboard then a single turbo makes sense.
>> What is a V configuration inline engine? It can't be both.
>>
Inline mounted as opposed to transverse.
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My dad is down south visiting my brother and they have gone to Duxford Museum today.
Just phoned me to let me hear the Lotus F1 car that is presently practising there!!
Jealous? Me - never :(
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>>Inline mounted as opposed to transverse.
I couldn't bring the word 'transverse' to mind. I was quite pleased with my substitution of 'athwartships', as it was ON who was asking.
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>> I couldn't bring the word 'transverse' to mind. I was quite pleased with my substitution
>> of 'athwartships', as it was ON who was asking.
>>
Now that I understand! :-)
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So who's coming down for the day/weekend to see the British Gp?
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Not I, but I'll be set up with live timing on the laptop in the settee grandstand.
It won't be a quiet weekend in the garden - we're near enough for some helicopter blight.
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Can't remember if the new circuit was completed for last years race, but I saw the moto GP from the stand at becketts and the view was absolutely superb, you could see so much of the circuit. Anyone down there for the race this weekend will do well to be in there.
And part of it has a roof, which was handy when we got typical British summer weather!
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Little interest in the race itself. Close enough to catch some chopper blight and need to plan alt route(s) where we might normally use A43 or A5.
Family habit has been to bike over the high ground at Handley Barn to watch the Red Arrows. Not sure if we will this time as daughter is away and I'm on a folding club ride on the Saturday.
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www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92948
Complete farce, you cant change the rules halfway through a race weekend.
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 9 Jul 11 at 09:49
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Horner and Newey have just come out of race control looking mighty angry, interesting swerve in teh season story, plus those two usually look very relaxe, so I presume Whiting didnt give them the answers they wanted.
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>>Blown overrun banned again.
Old news ??
Formula 1 bosses reverse decision in exhaust row
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/formula_one/14092523.stm
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>> Horner and Newey have just come out of race control looking mighty angry
Didn't stop them getting one and two though.
The FIA will have to try something else to stop the dominance of the Red Bull.
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WOW
What a finish! Lets see what the stewards make of the last corner with Massa & Hamilton.
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And pity that Redbull team orders kicked in.
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I'm happy for Alonso. Nice to see the Red Bulls toppled for a few moments. Trust Hamilton to provide last minute thrills - excellent race.
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Yes, eventful and some terrific driving. Button let down by pit crew and Hamilton having to go slowly for ten laps to save fuel... booboos all round by MacLaren team. Kobayashi very out of luck after qualifying well, punted off by Schumacher and never recovered. Webber sombre but shtum about the team orders.
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Missed the last half dozen laps ! Bought a puppy on Friday night. Wife out. Son temporarily missing. Dog obviously in sudden and urgent need of garden visit as race drew to a close ...Aargh !
Still, better than having to deal with the result of ignoring the dog I suppose...
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Sun 10 Jul 11 at 15:51
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My dog takes about 30 seconds to do its stuff.
what breed is this dog, a "read the sun on the bog" dog?
Last edited by: Zero on Sun 10 Jul 11 at 15:53
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He's a Sealyham / Lucas cross but he's only just getting used to the routine. 15 weeks old. Great wee guy but still a bit uncertain of things. Looks like a Labrador which has been shrunk in the wash at the moment.
Anyway, well done Fernando eh?
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I am starting to make a point of being in to watch F1 races, something I haven't done for a good few seasons now. So far, this season has been among the best I can remember, going back well into the 80's.
Last edited by: DP on Sun 10 Jul 11 at 23:43
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Buemi excluded from qualifying.
A statement issued by the FIA said: "The stewards, having received a report from the FIA Technical Delegate that the fuel sample taken after Qualifying from Car 18 showed an increase in one given GC (gas chromatography) Peak Area of an absolute amount greater than 0.1 per cent for the component present at a concentration below 0.8 per cent, and having heard from the FIA Formula One Analytical Chemist and the Team Representatives and examined the fuel test graphs, determine this to be a breach of Article 19.8.3 of the 2011 FIA Formula One Technical Regulations and decide to impose a penalty of exclusion of Car 18 from the results of Qualifying."
Article 19.8.3 of the F1 Technical Regulations relates to whether or not the fuel complies with the reference fuel that has to be submitted ahead of the weekend.
It states: "GC peak areas of the sample will be compared with those obtained from the reference fuel. Increases in any given peak area (relative to its adjacent peak areas) which are greater than 12 per cent, or an absolute amount greater than 0.1 per cent for compounds present at concentrations below 0.8 per cent, will be deemed not to comply.
"If a peak is detected in a fuel sample that was absent in the corresponding reference fuel, and its peak area represents more than 0.10 per cent of the summed peak areas of the fuel, the fuel will be deemed not to comply.
"If the deviations observed (above) by GC indicate that they are due to mixing with another Formula One fuel, which has been approved by the FIA for use by the team, the fuel sample will be deemed to comply, provided that the adulterant fuel is present at no more than 10 per cent in the sample."
Well thats all perfectly clear then.
Forecast for todays race - RAIN!
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I see Lada is a sponsor of the black and gold Lotus car.
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A couple of heavy showers always livens up the procession.
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>> A couple of heavy showers always livens up the procession.
ON, you are appalling.
What damn procession? Did you watch any of the race? Go and swab out the heads immediately.
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Great race, enjoyed it all.
Hamilton on form, Alonso also, Webber just never seems to rise to the occasion even when its gifted, Vettel looked weak after failing to pass (on track) Massa who did very well.
Shout out for Sutil, great result.
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Kobayashi made up eight places in the race and got into the points again, ahead of his teammate who is no slouch. He's looking more and more like the class of the midfield.
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Vettel said( Ich bien ein mensch) He was right today not his usual self.
Impressed with Hamilton no giving up for him.
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Great battle between Hamilton, Alonso and Webber. That overtake by Hamilton straight after being overtaken was class - the guys a natural. The body language was amusing between Hamilton and Alonso after the race. They hardly look at each other, quite awkward when both appear on the podium.
Thank god Vettels lost the monopoly for the moment. OK he'll probably win the championship, but I don't like it when it's a pushover - dull, dull, dull.
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Hamilton getting ahead at the very start - I thought he'd beat Webber on the getaway.
Very good race and well done Lewis Hamilton.
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Did it matter that Alonso ran out of fuel? ie: would his car have been underweight?
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No Alonso passed fuel tests.
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My impression was that he lost the gearchange and the pit told him to park the car and not use all the fuel. Perhaps stuck in a low or high gear either of which would have used a lot of fuel.
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What's "the undercut" referred to by F1 commentators?
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The undercut.
Driver A in the lead, followed closely by driver B. Driver A goes into the pits for new rubber, Driver B (now in the lead) pushes very hard on the next lap (called the "in-lap") and enters the pits for fresh rubber. Hopefully his hard in-lap and fast pit work will bring him out in front driver A.
Driver B has hence undercut driver A.
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>> The undercut.
>>
>> Driver A in the lead, followed closely by driver B. Driver A goes into the
>> pits for new rubber, Driver B (now in the lead) pushes very hard on the
>> next lap (called the "in-lap") and enters the pits for fresh rubber. Hopefully his hard
>> in-lap and fast pit work will bring him out in front driver A.
>>
>> Driver B has hence undercut driver A.
>>
Does driver A wait for driver B to complete a lap and rubber change before rejoining the race? There can't be much difference in rubber change times between A and B pit crews.
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>> Does driver A wait for driver B to complete a lap and rubber change before
>> rejoining the race?
No because driver A would then be a lap behind
There can't be much difference in rubber change times between A and
>> B pit crews.
Yesterday there was a complete 1.5 seconds between Vetels pit crew and Massas, bumping Vetel up a place.
Its all down the speed of the in-lap and the pit crew. Given that at most times the front three were a second apart from each other, you can see how it can work.
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>> Yesterday there was a complete 1.5 seconds between Vetels pit crew and Massas, bumping Vetel up a place.
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Bet Massa was pfd having held Vettel at bay for most of the race.
Stop trying to defeat the swear filter. It's not big, nor clever
Last edited by: VxFan on Tue 26 Jul 11 at 10:19
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>> The undercut.
>>
>> Driver A in the lead, followed closely by driver B. Driver A goes into the
>> pits for new rubber, Driver B (now in the lead) pushes very hard on the
>> next lap (called the "in-lap") and enters the pits for fresh rubber. Hopefully his hard
>> in-lap and fast pit work will bring him out in front driver A.
>>
>> Driver B has hence undercut driver A.
>>
I think you will find this is incorrect. The undercut is when driver B running second goes into the pits first, gaining a significant advantage from having new tyres over driver A who is left out on old tyres for another lap. By the time driver A comes into the pits, driver B has gained enough time to be ahead, undercutting driver A when he returns to the track.
The undercut is new in F1 this year because of the switch to Pirelli tyres. In previous years F1 tyres were slower for the first lap or so, so the advantage went to the guy who pitted last.
This years Pirelli's are faster straight out of the box, or at least have been until the second round of stops in Germany. So the trailing car can do a last moment pit dive to change tyres, leaving the lead car hung out on slow tyres for one more lap.
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Actually Merlin you are right.
I stand corrected.
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>> Actually Merlin you are right.
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>> I stand corrected.
>>
:-) (again)
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David Coulthard pronounces Vettel differently from the other commentators. I wish all the F1 commentators would ask all the drivers for the correct pronunciation of their name.
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Barrichello is another one that commentators often get wrong.
Some pronounce it with a silent h, others don't.
Googling shows the correct pronunciation is Hubens Bahikelo.
Have also heard both of the Schumacher brothers being called Shoemaker.
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I have heard the cobbler twins being called a lot of things.
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With regards the 'cobbler brothers' - most seem to pronounce it as shoemaker with the 'ch' pronounced as a 'c' sound. But it's meant to be pronounced more like the Welsh 'ch' sound.
But does it really matter?
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>>I wish all the F1 commentators would ask all the drivers for the correct pronunciation of their name.<<
The german pronounciation is different from the english one for Vettel, depends whether you want to look clever or not. I suspect none of them pronounce it the was Seb does.
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www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sgl2p7r2PA&NR=1
German pronounciation just one word Vettel.
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and the BBC will only show half of them on TV, although live commentary for every race will continue on Radio 5 Live:
news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/9550930.stm
tgr.ph/nq0RTt
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I'd read 2012-2018 and not 2013.
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>> I'd read 2012-2018 and not 2013.
Ah yes, I only heard the bit about the existing BBC contract expiring in 2013 and jumped to the wrong conclusion. That's even worse then, it'll go the same way as rallying eventually.
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Wasn't F1 on both terrestrial and Sky for a season a few years back?
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>> Wasn't F1 on both terrestrial and Sky for a season a few years back?
It was on Eurosport for a number of years at the same time as on Terrestrial TV.
Used to watch it more often than not on Eurosport as I prefered the commentators on there. One of which was an ex F1 driver, John Watson rings a bell.
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...It was on Eurosport for a number of years at the same time as on Terrestrial TV...
Thanks, it was Eurosport.
John Watson's still knocking about, he was on a 5Live evening GP preview programme a few weeks ago.
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It's carp, what's the point in broadcasting half of the races, there is no comitment to the sport there, I feel a strongly worded letter to the BBC coming on ... ...
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Ive got Sky anyway, I care not, although they would do well to employ Marty and Davy boy to continue commentry.
I think the complainers will find that the BBC isnt about the interests of the majority, something that has been highlighted before when discussions about Top Gear being rubbish came up a while ago.
What we really want on the BBC to replace F1 is a diversity tutorial about how the newly founded Jedi religion copes with legislation about light sabres and the impact this has on their culture. Now THAT is what the BBC is about :-)
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>>Ive got Sky anyway, I care not>>
Though the BBC is a much better experience, I engage with the BBC, I tolerate ITV, SKY etc as a route to content ...
Anyway it might not happen ...
www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/93455
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Indeed it may not, I just read something about the Concorde agreement potentially scuppering things.
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Courtesy of @sniffpetrol:
Alleged cost of BBC3 per year: £115m.
Alleged cost of moving BBC depts (incl Sport) to Salford: £900m.
Alleged cost of F1 rights per year: £45m.
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>> Alleged cost of BBC3 per year: £115m.
>> Alleged cost of moving BBC depts (incl Sport) to Salford: £900m.
If they were to cut down on some of the drivel shown before and after the race (with the exception of MB's grid walk) then that should save a few ££££
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From that link
Williams chairman Adam Parr said the key was understanding the finer details of the arrangement - because what teams lose in widespread television viewing figures could be gained in an increased revenue from Sky.
That says a lot.
English football is a victim of Sky, yes they have all the great players there but they are being paid huge monies due to knowing the Sky money was there. If the Sky money wasn't there, the majority of those players would still be there, but being paid much less, maybe except a few elite who may go to other leagues.
The best thing that could happen IMHO, which I know won't, is Sky going bust and leaving no money for the Premier League.
Adam Parr's comments seem to say basically it costs a fortune to put the F1 show on so we need to take as much money in to recoup. So look forward to in a couple of years time, the F1 calendar being solely based in Dubai / Qatar etc with loads of money but few watchers.
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Marvellous. Adverts in the middle of F1 again.
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To be fair on Sky they say no ads ...
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I'm not surprised as they don't put ads in football matches, nor in feature films on their movie channels. It's ITV which does such dastardly things....
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For the last I don't know how many years I have watched almost very F1 race in full. Some have been dull processions, most have not, I have loved them all. F1 exists to entertain, and I pay the BBC to entertain and inform me. Scrap Eastenders, or a cooking show, Radio 6, but keep F1 fully on terrestrial tv. Who are SKY to cherry pick the best races, leaving BBC with the sloppy seconds and highlights, just like they do with he Premier league. The BBC viewing figures will fall, due to the competition, lack of completeness etc, after which no doubt they will completely drop coverage as it has become a 'minority sport'.
I do not, and will not, subscribe to SKY sport, not because of Murdoch but because I cannot justify the expense, so I will miss out on my favourite sport. Like Cheddar, I feel a strongly worded letter to the BBC chairman coming on, possibly CC'd to my MP. I'll let you know when I get a reply.
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F1 = not many women, no sexuality storylines, only a token black driver, its about rich people and cars arent cool in PC circles, unless they are electric.
The BBC aint gonna choose F1 over Eastenders, it doesnt fit their agenda, infact its amazing they even bothered with it in the first place.
I expect if we had 50 % women drivers and all drivers were voted into their seats by a phone-in with Dale Winton, they might go for it.
Shame though, I have enjoyed their coverage immensely.
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We used to see live boxing on ITV or BBC all gone down the pan.
F1 racing will go the same way.Pay as you go.
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Seems to me the beeb, in the current atmosphere of cutbacks, could quite easily save millions on the coverage and slip Bernie a big enough wad to keep F1.
The coverage has been all right, but unnecessarily lush (too much faffing before and after, perhaps too many people there altogether. Asking F1 drivers for statements after or before the event is a way of wasting bandwidth. Record what they say by all means with small cameras wherever you can get away with it, but edit it for heaven's sake, stop having these long pauses followed by 'Yeah, well, for sure... ' and some load of meaningless cobblers, as it is four times out of five). Keep the cameras, cut back on the number of pundits, and those rubbish grid interviews with Naomi Campbell, the Akhond of Swat, Tony Soprano and so on. They could save millions a race like that.
We have a lot of Sky HD channels here. I didn't buy the package, but if it comes to it I will lobby to have whatever channel it's on. But I would have thought there was a good chance Sky would make price concessions on F1. It knows it's got to get into our good books.
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Dont blame the BBC, blame Bernie Ecclestone who demands huge fees for his personal pension plan, plus his upcoming divorce and the *alleged* corruption trial that's coming his way.
Poisonous little dwarve he is.
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While I do enjoy F1 I'll not be paying Sky or anyone else for more TV channels. I don't enjoy TV enough to want to. Didn't even have a set at all until I met my wife who wanted one when she moved in.
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>>Didn't even have a set
>> at all until I met my wife who wanted one when she moved in.
Blimey, you must be a boring old faart if your new wife demands a TV as soon as she moves in!
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Almost certainly, and reasonably proud of it thank goodness.
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Luckily my lad has joined Virgin Media, and he gets a huge staff discount....
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>> the *alleged* corruption trial that's coming his way.
He says it wasn't a bung. Anyway it wasn't the bung alleged, it was a small bung, if it was a bung. Only 25 million US smackeroos or something. A GIRL'S alleged bung.
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I will not pay to watch F1 on TV, and if the 30 or so people I've discussed this with today are any kind of barometer, neither will the vast majority of people. So long, F1. It's been fun, but time to move on.
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BBC to scrap F1 due to £3m per race cost? - Stuartli
