Citroen are recalling more than 20,000 of its Picasso C3 cars
www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-13447395
Includes a video clip.
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You could do that in ~2001 Corsa C's but not in the face lifted 2004 Corsa C's.
In the 2001 version there was a bar came out behind the centre console at the top of the foot well. My GF at the time hated that i found that :-)
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What a bodge-up.
No wonder French cars have a reputation for unreliability and general shoddiness.
I would have one if you paid me, but it would be traded in immediately for a Ford.
Last edited by: Iffy on Thu 19 May 11 at 12:23
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>> but it would be traded in immediately for a Ford.
On the plus side iffy, the C3 will have fresh brake fluid owing to it's easy to service location :-P
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...the C3 will have fresh brake fluid owing to it's easy to service location...
True, although I bet Ford never thought 'steering wheel position properly engineered' would be a selling point.
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The BBC report refers to a brake cable so presumably its the parking brake. Did the subject car really 'screech to a halt' or is that journalistic hyperbole?
This is not, as the Corsa contribution above makes clear, unique to the C3 Picasso or to French cars. In fact it's one of those old chestnuts that comes up again and again. Issue on earlyish Polos back in the eighties IIRC.
Shouldn't happen though. A large chunk of the world drives on the left and there's a wrrying degree of pennypinching when a mfr bodges the conversion in this way.
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>> The BBC report refers to a brake cable so presumably its the parking brake
Not necessarily. The Mk1 Astra had the braking servo and master cylinder on the LH side of the car (Opel design for the German market), and used a cable to connect it to the brake pedal on RH drive Astras.
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I've seen a similar crossover bar in RHD Cavalier MkIIs and Astra MkIs, albeit under the bonnet not inside the cabin.
I've found it's quite easy to catch my big feet against the steering column of the Mondeo where it passes through the bulkhead - if you're not aware that your foot's resting against it then it can create a slight extra resistance in the steering. I've found the solution is: to be aware of it :)
The Escort was the same - I also frequently turned its heater all the way down to cold with my foot as I lifted it off the clutch pedal.
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...I've found it's quite easy to catch my big feet against the steering column...
I could do that on my previous Focus - on the universal joint where the column passed through the bulkhead.
It caused a slight resistance to the steering, which was a little un-nerving when it first happened.
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What a bodge up, typical of Ford engineering, I would have one if you paid me but then I would sell it again.
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Apparantly the Panda also has the problem according to the Panda forum although FIAT hasn't ever issued a recall over it.
My car also has the steering problem, where you can feel the steering joints if you move the left foot too far left.
Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 19 May 11 at 16:20
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I've experienced the rubbing of the steering column universal joint on the end of my shoes before, and in every case it's been a French car. Two Peugeots, one Citroen, and one Renault
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>> The Mk1 Astra had the braking servo and master cylinder on the LH
>> side of the car (Opel design for the German market), and used a cable to
>> connect it to the brake pedal on RH drive Astras.
So the braking action on these cars depended on a brake cable like a bike?
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I'm pretty sure my father's 1985 Astra had levers/rods to transfer the brake pedal effort, not a cable. I'm 90% sure my 1986 Cavalier had the brake servo on the correct side.
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My Mondeo has the brake servo on the passenger side so I assume some sort of LHR / RHD conversion has taken place.
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>> My Mondeo has the brake servo on the passenger side so I assume some sort
>> of LHR / RHD conversion has taken place.
>>
Same on the Ceed, can't see any linkage though. It must be up behind the dashboard / heater.
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>> I'm pretty sure my father's 1985 Astra had levers/rods .....
Pretty sure my 1982 Y reg Astra had a hefty wire cable making the connection.
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>> >> I'm pretty sure my father's 1985 Astra had levers/rods .....
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>> Pretty sure my 1982 Y reg Astra had a hefty wire cable making the connection.
>>
Yeah, I couldn't be 100% sure now, and the vehicle went to the great garage in the sky after I tailgated a guy in a mk2 Cavalier due to the Astra's crap brakes ;-/
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Do cars still have remote servo's, like if i recall, Land Crab.
I fitted a remote servo to my non servo'd front disced Mk2 Cortina, possibly from a Land Crab, amazing difference.
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No media exaggeration my son was the driver !!
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...No media exaggeration...
Could you repeat that?
Not that anyone on here will believe it, even if you do.
Well done to the lad for helping to bring the problem to public notice.
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Afraid its true my son was the driver the guy they interviewed was in the passenger seat
interview with local TV tomorrow
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>> Afraid its true my son was the driver the guy they interviewed was in
>> the passenger seat
>> interview with local TV tomorrow
The comment about journalistic hyperbole was mine and I'm happy to be corrected.
Iffy's our resident journalist and therefore gets some stick from the regulars about his profession!
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So what's the story? There is manufacturing problem, and Citroen are doing a recall, where is the problem? You have to stick your feet up in strange place to make it happen, its not exactly common is it.
Watchdog get on my wick, Citroen are acting in a responsible manner, why does it need to be sensationalised?
Last edited by: Zero on Thu 19 May 11 at 22:36
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>> You could do that in ~2001 Corsa C's but not in the face lifted 2004
>> Corsa C's.
>> In the 2001 version there was a bar came out behind the centre console at
>> the top of the foot well. My GF at the time hated that i found
>> that :-)
Utter rubbish! Vauxhall haven't used a crossbeam for the brakes in a small car since the Nova. Both RHD Corsa B & C's have the brake master cylinder on the driver's side. Even Astra's and later Mk2 Cavaliers stopped using a crossbeam in the early 80's.
Last edited by: Victorbox on Fri 20 May 11 at 22:05
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I couldn't believe the so called 'expert' on watchdog...
'Ive NEVER see or heard anything like this before...'
Its a common design 'feature'.... Yugo 45's had it in the 80's!
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As said the Panda also has this problem, although apparantly you have to put your feet behind the centre console but its very easy to do if you know how.
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>> Its a common design 'feature'.... Yugo 45's had it in the 80's!
It's a design issue that crops up repeatedly. Cars originally designed for LHD market are adapted for RHD states and for reasons of practicality or cost a solution other than moving the master cylinder and re-arranging the plumbing is adopted.
If the report is right about a cable in the left front footwell is this in fact an adaptation at all. In other words could the driver of the LHD version get an uncommanded brake application while shuffling his feet - particularly if driving under cruise sontrol with 'feet off'?
Both my Citroens, a Xantia and a Berlingo, use the move cylinder (or control valve in the Xant's case) method.
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The C3 Picasso shares the same platform as the Peugeot 207, Citroen C3, and Citroen DS3.
So are these models affected as well?
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To provide a linkage for a RHD installation isn't in any way a cheap option - it's much more expensive than moving the master cylinder and servo across.
However, of course, there are some designs where there simply isn't enough room to allow the master cylinder and servo to be moved across.
The linkage designs vary. Some BMWs used a long linkage which moved the master cylinder and servo forwards, away from the bulkhead. Some Fords used a similar layout, but, a much simpler mechanism.
When a torsion bar or linkage is used across the bulkhead, there is the design choice to run the linkage in the engine compartment, or inside the passenger compartment. Vauxhalls, for example, tended to run the mechanism inside the engine compartment, and just like the BMW system, the mechanism was prone to siezing up. Linkages inside the cars won't suffer the siezing up problem.
If I were designing such a linkage, I imagine that I would be tempted by keeping the linkage inside the car, under the dashboard away from well meaning types who would try to lubricate the linkage with the wrong substances, or make "helpful" adjustments.
I don't see the ability of the passenger to apply the brake is such a problem - after all, the passenger could also apply the handbrake, change gear, and make a nuisance of themselves in other dangerous ways already.
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Excellent post nc. If only you were employed as the "expert" on Watchdog!
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>>
>> I don't see the ability of the passenger to apply the brake is such a
>> problem - after all, the passenger could also apply the handbrake, change gear, and make
>> a nuisance of themselves in other dangerous ways already.
>>
I think the difference here is that the passenger could unwittingly apply the brakes in this manner whereas your other examples require deliberate action.
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As NC says,it's nothing to do with modifying a LHD to RHD.Virtually all FWD cars using an E/W engine layout have the engine on the right side of the car(in relation to the driver) and the gearbox on the left-this means that the only space for the servo is on the left(over the gearbox).Some cars use no servo and a master cylinder behind the engine but most people want a light brake pedal-you could use a remote servo but that would be even more expensive.
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we have one of these cars so will be waiting for a recall notice. its due a service soon so they may do it then
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just been to look at the fault and there is a large diameter metal bar about 26ins long that runs along the passanger footwell. what a stupid design.
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After watching Watchdog tonight, there are other PSA models involved and some Renaults - C3, C4, 307, 206, Scenic .....
As partial dual controls are already fitted, have they thought of marketing these cars to driving schools?
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Citroen Picasso UK recall over 'passenger brake' - Skoda
