The Golf GTI has finally blotted its record after 1 yr and 1 month of impeccable reliability.
As we were queueing to get into a multi-storey in Reading today, the alternator warning light came on. And stayed on :-(.
Still had power steering, so I knew it wasn't a belt failure. Had a look under the bonnet, and could see nothing amiss with the alternator or battery connections, and with no multimeter to hand, couldn't find out if it was actually charging or not.
Turns out it wasn't. Although in fairness to it, it did make it the 12 miles or so back to the end of our street (with all electrical items off as a precaution) before the voltage clearly dropped below the level needed to power the fuel and ignition system, and it lost all power and ground to an undignified, slightly sulky feeling halt, albeit right outside the house. There wasn't even enough juice left in the battery to engage the solenoid, and attempting to do so reset the clock to 0:00. One properly flat battery, and possibly beyond resurrection itself.
After opting not to pay £150 for a new unit, I've got a guaranteed secondhand unit from a VW breaker on eBay winging its way to me for the princely sum of £35. Old unit is now off the car, and the battery on charge (if it recovers). As luck would have it, SWMBO doesn't need the car until Thursday next week, so I have some time.
Anyhoo, this got me thinking how reliable modern cars really are. I must have driven 250,000 miles in the last ten years and the only time before this I've been let down was when the Scenic's clutch expired a couple of years ago. It's a rare enough event that you feel shock more than anything else. Even though the mechanically aware part of my mind appreciates that a dead alternator at 141,000 miles is hardly a disgrace, you kind of get a false sense of security when all those components work perfectly day in, day out. It was almost a reality check. And I suppose the car did actually get us home, although there was no small amount of luck involved, as had the journey been half a mile longer, it wouldn't have.
Just wondering when was the last time you broke down, and what was the cause?
|
|
Ford Sierra. Catastrophic HGF at 70, lots of oil and smoke, didnt fail to proceed so much as become dangerous to. Changed the gasket and it carried on like nothing had happened. Tough cars.
|
The Octavias clutch burnt out on holiday in Dorset last year - I had been abusing it to creep along a very narrow single track road against the flow of traffic. Even with the RAC tow and go discount, replacing it was £500+.
Thats the only time I have been towed in by the RAC. A very old Polo shattered its rotor arm on the A483, but Britannia Rescue fixed that at the roadside, thankfully.
|
1991 Pug 405 diesel, blocked tank vent, could barely get the fuel cap off due to the suction.
1988 Vauxhall Cav C - sheared rotor arm gear.
1983 - 1985 Numerous breakdowns in nasty places, Putney Hight street, Marble Arch, Motorway slip road, etc etc. One of BLs vintage periods.
|
Cripes DP, it's so long ago now I can't remember exactly. I've had things like the driveshaft coming out of the gearbox end on my Alfasud and rendering me immobile, but a few minutes looking for the spacer in the gutter and a few lovely minutes under the car with cars whizzing past my feet and I was on my way again. Not really a breakdown, just a minor inconvenience :)
The only actual breakdown where the car just stopped and wouldn't move anymore was my Escort Mk2 - the ignition suppressor on the side of the distributor had failed. It was a 2.0 pinto.
|
|
The Espace. I lost count. Still can't see one without getting cross.
|
Actual breakdows on the road:
1980 Vauxhall Viva - water pump failed spraying water all over the HT leads
1992 Citroen BX - rotor arm shattered (diaphram split in vacuum unit allowing petrol vapour to leak into the distributor with inevitable results)
2005 & 2006 Renault Megane - coil packs twice !
One call out fo a failed battery (Megane again) + another for a puncture when i couldn't get the wheel nuts (yup, the Megane again !)
|
|
Morris Minor: in about 1970. Accelerator cable snapped, on M6, on way to x-country race. Managed to keep going by attaching a cord to the carb, and voila - hand throttle. Norton - pushrods came orf their tappets due to some fool installing hairpin valve-springs incorrectly. Fixed at side of the road between Ashbourne and Buxton with my ever-present tool kit. It was going so well after new exhaust valve fitted. ~Then silence! Ford Escort possibly 1982 - on dual carriageway lane 2. All power, lights and indicators off suddenly. Fusible link in line to (or from!) battery failed. Not mentioning pxxxxxxe fairy:)
Last edited by: NortonES2 on Thu 28 Apr 11 at 21:22
|
I've only actually broken down once in the last 15 years - problem with an EGR valve on a Mondeo. Recovered under tow to home (less than 2 miles away) and then recovered again the next morning to the local Ford dealer. Couldn't drop off the night before because of security bollards in place.
Then a call to recovery team for company car to sort out a hire car - so not too inconvenienced in the end although not a good time to breakdown. Relative in hospital. Got a taxi to the airport to pick up a temporary hire car that night. All paid for of course including the taxi.
So in those 15 years I must have done at least 250k miles at a guess. Probably more. The most I've done in one year is about 30k miles.
So all in all quite reliable driving. An alternator went on a Vectra B but that was driveable to the garage. Knew it was not charging but not too far to the garage. Took a few months for them to get the part but I got a Vectra B 2.5 v6 as a hire car so not put out.
|
>> Took a few months for them to get the part but I
>> got a Vectra B 2.5 v6 as a hire car so not put out.
A few months for an alternator????
|
I guess I am not so lucky.
Just with my Mondeo II Now done 130K+ total with me for 7 years and 50K.
1. A very strange electrical fault. 50A fuse had blown and reconnected itself for about 99.9% of the time. Almost total electrical failure when it played up.
2. Coil pack failed and was able to limp it 20 miles to a main dealer
3. Front spring broke and jammed against the tyre so it was a piggyback to my indie.
4. Auto gearbox recently failed - needed a significant rebuild.
I was lucky when a cambelt pulley broke up ( suspect it was an unchanged original retained when belt changed at 80K ) and it did no further damage.
My motoring ownership did not start well with a new engine fitted at 25K in my 18 month old 1600E. Umpteen breakdowns, serveral unusual ones but I loved the car.
Now about these reliable cars !!!!
|
|
I think it took about 2 months to get the alternator. None in the UK. This was when the Vectra B was still being made as well. I was happy enough with an upgrade to the 2.5 V6 though ;-)
|
>>And I suppose the car did actually get us home, although there was no small amount of luck involved, as had the journey been half a mile longer, it wouldn't have.>>
It's a Volkswagen....:-))))
|
1981 Hillman Hunter. Seized engine as a result of failed oil pump. Warning light had been on but plenty of oil in sump so I wrongly assumed the warning light was faulty! End of that car!
1985 Renault 18 TD Estate. Clutch cable went in Belgium while at Spa watching the grand prix. Know weakness and so I had a spare cable on board that the local mechanique fitted for me.
1987 Mini Metro. Ran out of fuel when the guage read 1/4 full (faulty guage). On the M25, but about half a mile from a junction with a petrol station nearby.
1992 Citroen BX GTi. Clutch cable broke, luckily about half a mile from the indy garage I used to service it, so was able to drive there with no clutch (not easy in London traffic!).
2000 Citroen 2CV. Lead fell (vibrated?) off one of the spark plugs, resulting in half the power! (i.e. not much). Easy road-side fix and on my way again.
DP - I reckon the battery will be fine if your charger is a conditioning one.
Last edited by: Boxsterboy on Fri 29 Apr 11 at 00:03
|
>> DP - I reckon the battery will be fine if your charger is a conditioning
>> one.
It's not, unfortunately. It's a very ancient standard battery charger which I bought at the age of 15 to use as a power supply for the 12 volt charger for my Tamiya radio controlled car ;-) Still going strong though.
I've got it on "LOW" (slow charge) and it's reading a steady 2 amps. Will leave it overnight and see where we are in the morning.
Really must invest in a modern battery charger.
|
"Tamiya radio controlled car"
Which one did you have? Sandrover? Rough Rider? Holiday Buggy?
I had the Toyota Hilux 4x4 Pickup. Wish I still had it.
|
>> Which one did you have? Sandrover? Rough Rider? Holiday Buggy?
>>
>> I had the Toyota Hilux 4x4 Pickup. Wish I still had it.
I had a Hornet, followed by a Mud Blaster (Subaru Brat pickup). After hours of fun, I inevitably destroyed the Hornet with an over-ambitious jump (snapped chassis in two, broke the front suspension) and it would have cost the same in parts as for a complete new kit, so I bought a different kit and transferred the radio gear over. The Mud Blaster's party piece was its ability to wheelie for several metres ;-). Gave that to my cousin when I moved out of home and was offloading stuff. I think he still has it somewhere.
I used to love building them as much as using them. A great way to learn how diffs and different suspension systems work when you have to assemble them from a pile of parts. Just scaled down versions of the real thing.
|
...Really must invest in a modern battery charger...
Not sure if I'd bother, because it might not charge a dead flat battery.
Your stone age charger should.
On the subject of breakdowns, the water pump failed on my Cortina estate, around 1985.
It was the 1.6 overhead cam and I'd have got to where I was going, but the extra play as the water pump bearing failed allowed the fan to move, which in turn sliced open the underside of the top hose.
The smell of escaping hot coolant meant I stopped long before any overheating damage was done.
|
>> Not sure if I'd bother, because it might not charge a dead flat battery.
>>
>> Your stone age charger should.
It's recovered it to 12.6 volts (charging for 24 hours, and standing for an hour). Of course, I don't know how it will cope with a load on it. Fingers crossed.
|
M's Golf left her stranded in a (thankfully local) car park the other day. Starter motor... again!
After having tried rocking it in gear (although i know the ring gear & starter teeth to be in good shape), rocking in gear with the solenoid engaged - just in case it helped the starter by turning it, finally just bump started it (thankfully she parked on a slight hill).
I then turned the key and fried it out of spite. Not exactly a rational decision but i got some satisfaction from the smell and the car dashboard bleeping purposefully to tell me off.
2nd hand one for £20 + delivery with a 30 day exchange policy.
|
Apart from a spate of cambelts snapping in Cavalier's around 1987ish, it's also a VAG car, a SEAT Ibiza, which has let us down in more recent years. Four times, in fact, all down to coil pack failure.
It's always been the same one which has failed, and in a 3 cyl engine it's not really sensible to carry on.
|
"It's always been the same one which has failed, and in a 3 cyl engine it's not really sensible to carry o
The 3 times that my Megane suffered coil pack failure it was the one on No 2 cylinder that gave up. The dealer always replaced all 4 though as they reckoned that the other 3 nearly always followed suit shortly after.
|
|
My MK3 Fiesta broke down at the end of my road. I suspect it lost compression because the engine was so warn. We pushed it back and after an hour of messing about got it going again.
|
There was an outfit just off the Edgeware Road, a bit north of the North Circular flyover, that used to rebuild them on the spot when they didn't have one in stock - alternators and starters.
There was a free municipal car park behind the place. You could drive in, remove the unit yourself and give it to the blokes. Then you could re-install the new one. They would even come out and test the unit while it was still on the car. Not expensive, always good work. Very useful for Skoda Estelle owners (starter one of several weak spots), but they did all makes.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 29 Apr 11 at 14:51
|
>> There was an outfit just off the Edgeware Road
Wish there were outfits like that still knocking about. I guess it's just not cost effective.
|
Only had one car in which I've suffered breakdowns - that was an L reg 2.0 Cavalier. Not sure how old it was when we bought it, maybe 5 years? Anyway, the first time it happened we were tootling along the motorway at about 70 when it went into 'limp' mode. Managed to get over to the hard shoulder, called the AA, the man didn't really know what it was, but half an hour later it appeared to fix itself.
This happened a few times - garage couldn't fix it. Problem went away when we part-ex'd it for the next car.
|
In my last 10 years / 250,000 miles or so I've had 3 no go' incident in my leggy bangernomics Vauxhalls:-
Previous Vectra, injector relay gave up the ghost, around 150K IIRC. Took 5 minutes to read blink codes and another 5 to fit the new relay.
Omega at similar mileage, driving down the M3 in heavy rain and smoke starts coming out the dash..eek... turns out previous owner had changed a headlight bulb at some point, and trapped the live feed to the sidelights under the retaining clip, which was grounded. Eventually the insulation wore through, unfortunately the alleged 10A fuse protecting the sidelight feed didn't blow and the loom started melting. Took several hours of swearing with my multimeter, hanging upside down under the dash to by-pass the melted parts of the loom, so that everything functioned again.
Same Omega, driving across the New Forest on a dark winter's morning and I lose both headlamps; drive back home on foglights. Took about an hour to find that the crimp connection on the live feed to one headlamp was really hot to the touch. The crimp connection had corroded over the years, and was somehow dissipating enough power to put out both headlamps (despite separate feeds) but not blow a fuse. Never could square that one with Ohm's law. Soldered in a new connector and back on the road quickly once I'd found it anyway.
|
>> incident in my leggy bangernomics Vauxhalls:-
Lesson of the day there is: Dont trust GM fuses.
|
>>
>> >> incident in my leggy bangernomics Vauxhalls:-
>>
>> Lesson of the day there is: Dont trust GM fuses.
>>
A good point, one of the things I tend to check when buying a banger is the state of the fusebox; if there's a whole range of different brands of fuse in there then I figure something's screwy somewhere - I consider it very unusual to blow a fuse in a modern car.
|
>> Lesson of the day there is: Dont trust GM
Surely that's more accurate ^^ :-P
|
>> >> Lesson of the day there is: Dont trust GM
>>
>> Surely that's more accurate ^^ :-P
If there had to be a choice between Ford and Vauxhall, I would choose Ford. No rational reason. There's just something I don't like about Vauxhalls.
|
I'd choose the same, every time. Mine is irrational. GM & Mercedes - possibly 2 of the most successful manufacturers but nevertheless i wouldn't own either.
Did own a Corsa, it never really did wrong by me - just felt a bit flimsy in places that's all. Can't justify it really.
|
|
Well, being born and bred in Luton buying Vauxhalls is kinda genetic ;-). Personally I'd be quite happy with a Mondeo, but I still tend to buy Vectras/Omegas largely on the better the devil you know principle, plus I've usually got a spare one on the drive, so a free source of spares to hand.
|
|
I've tried to like Vauxhalls over the years. I've maybe had half a dozen of them or so but sadly none of them has ever really been all all that good. For some reason, perhaps selective perception of course, they never felt all that comfortable and in most cases put my admittedly sensitive back in kinks. Handling was always a bit woolly too. Conversely, I've truly never been disappointed with a Ford. I've also had three BMWs, they were all great driver's cars but not as reliable as you might imagine. Three Volvos too, comfortable in the main but lairy handling. Two Golf Gtis, a bit underwhelming in truth. A Xantia, desperately uncomfortable but otherwise workmanlike. An Espace, dear God it was awful. 40 odd cars in total so I'll stop boring you now but in the main, if you want the job done well, and don't want to pay a king's ransom, buy a Ford.
|
>> buy a Ford.
Said the man in the Nissan :-P
I need to get a ford of some sort. Now that i can half appreciate a car's oily bits i need to have a play about with one. BMW impress me so far, with their thoughtfulness in the way they bolt the cars together. Need to see what a Ford's like.
Not all that impressed with VAG - can't fault much specifically but there's definitely signs an accountant's been doing some spreadsheet engineering.
|
>> Now that i can half appreciate a car's oily bits
>> there's definitely signs an accountant's been doing some spreadsheet engineering.
Those two ideas don't really sit together well.
Good engineering IS doing things cheaply, using cheap materials, using the minimum material, the minimum machining to make the part work.
Anyone can make expensive, heavy, over-engineered parts. The skill is paring the design to the bone, and getting away with it, fooling the customer that he's actually buying something much more upmarket than it really is.
However, looking very carefully at the way that Fords are built is a brilliant lesson in good engineering. Look for how Ford make one part fulfil a number of tasks - engine mounting brackets which also have wiring and pipe routing clips built in. Look for features which don't obviously do anything, but are moulded or cast in. There will be a model variant which uses them. See how few superfluous parts there are - how spring washers are all but banned.
Compare this with the typical underbonnet layout of Japanese and other Eastern cars, where you'll find a hotchpotch of multiple brackets bolted though together, and little evidence of co-operation between the engineers who are responsible for each sub-system.
An automotive engineer who isn't thinking of cost first isn't in the right branch of engineering. Just as an aero engineer who isn't thinking of mass reduction above all else is in the wrong job.
|
>>
>> Good engineering IS doing things cheaply, using cheap materials, using the minimum material, the minimum
>> machining to make the part work.
>>
I fundamentally agree, indeed I've spent a good part of the last 20 years engineering cost out of telcomms equipment; however in this context it does mean that I have to hope that the engineer's target for the car's lifetime matches mine. - and I like to get 15 years/200K miles out of a car. I suspect that means a properly cost engineered car will cost me more to keep going at 150K+ than one that has some degree of over engineering still built in. Hope that makes a vague amount of sense.
|
>> Compare this with the typical underbonnet layout of Japanese and other Eastern cars, where you'll
>> find a hotchpotch of multiple brackets bolted though together, and little evidence of co-operation between
>> the engineers who are responsible for each sub-system.
Yes, but the the electrical wiring and connections are usually good quality, and well routed in the engine bay. They are still more reliable than Fords despite the lack of 'co-operation between the engineers`.
>>Good engineering IS doing things cheaply, using the minimum amount of material
Colin Chapman springs to mind.
Last edited by: corax on Fri 29 Apr 11 at 21:58
|
I'm a firm believer that the Japanese expertise in reliable, low cost electronics is what gives them a good chunk of their reliability advantage. Many problems on cars, particularly as they age are related to wiring or electronic component failure. As for engine bay layout, I remember being amazed on the Rover factory tour I mentioned in another thread, looking at the Honda V6 under the bonnet of an 800. It was a very full engine bay, but all the hoses and cables were routed with millimetric precision, supported properly throughout their runs, and with ample slack to avoid strain on connectors.
Re: Vauxhall, I had a few 80's Vauxhalls (mk2 Astra, mk2 Cavalier) and loved them. They were tough, reliable, easy to work on, and for their engine size, always a lot faster than the Ford equivalents of the time, as well as being far sweeter and freer revving. For me, I lost interest in Vauxhall in the early 90's when they moved to the Ecotec era. Everyone I know without exception who traded an older 8v Vauxhall for one of the "new improved" 16v versions wanted their old car back within months, and subsequently deserted the brand. A company I worked for dumped their fleet of Omegas back with the lease company after six months after four fleets of perfectly reliable Carltons. My sister in law was forced to sell her Corsa GSI with an engine management / stalling fault which had already had £1500 worth of parts thrown at it, and was still unfixed. It also threw its cambelt off, although the warranty covered that.
Around this time, Ford reinvented itself with the Mondeo, and has continued to launch brilliant, and largely still very reliable drivers cars ever since. For me, I would always choose Ford as a result.
Even today, I'm not convinced Vauxhall have regained the legendary reliability of their 80's models. We have a big fleet of Insignias at work, and everyone who drives them says they are a lovely car, but constantly suffering niggling faults. One of my colleagues has one which has suffered 9 separate faults in its first six weeks on the road! A shame, as for looks and perceived quality, I would say it pips the Mondeo. Apparently drives pretty well too.
|
>>
>> Re: Vauxhall, I had a few 80's Vauxhalls (mk2 Astra, mk2 Cavalier) and loved them.
>> They were tough, reliable, easy to work on, and for their engine size, always a
>> lot faster than the Ford equivalents of the time, as well as being far sweeter
>> and freer revving. For me, I lost interest in Vauxhall in the early 90's when
>> they moved to the Ecotec era. Everyone I know without exception who traded an older
>> 8v Vauxhall for one of the "new improved" 16v versions wanted their old car back
>> within months, and subsequently deserted the brand.
I did much prefer the Family Series 2 litre 8V 115bhp in the later Cavalier Mk2s & Carltons to the Ecotec 2 litre 16v 130bhp I've had in my last 2 Omegas and 2 Vectras, but I'm not sure the older engine would drag a heavy Omega body around too well (ignoring emissions limits). Having said that they did put the older 8v engine in the base model Onega for the first year or two, be interesting to try one out.
|
>> Good engineering IS doing things cheaply
Yeah i can appreciate that NC, but when i have to remove the battery, battery tray, power steering pipe mount, a cable tray fashioned into a mounting bracket, and a length of heavy gauge cable that's only just long enough to reach where it's going and doesn't have enough "play" left in it to easily move it out of the way, that's just to get the socket onto a bolt head which is still blind with an ABS pipe in the way of the ratchet... all just to unbolt a starter motor which is nominally well placed for fast removal (front bottom of the gearbox), it makes me think "stop being so cheap!"
Contrast that with BMW's approach. Despite being in a harder to reach location, it takes 2 easy to reach bolts and it's starter comes out. Take something more complex like a power steering pipe which runs from one side of the engine bay to another, turning and twisting to follow it's path, yet can be removed without undoing anything other than the banjo bolts either side and a couple of supporting brackets which don't double up as cable brackets etc.
For me, that's much better engineering - they cared about who would be working in that area and what tasks they'd be doing.
Last edited by: Skoda on Sat 30 Apr 11 at 13:34
|
>> Contrast that with BMW's approach.
>> It takes 2 easy to reach bolts
Some of that is to do with the rear wheel drive layout, but I'm impressed with BMW quality. You lift the bonnet, and even on an old example there is minimal corrosion, and components and ancillaries are good quality - that's why you can run a BMW (at least an older one) for years without major problems. They have weak points as does any car, but they are usually well documented and easy to sort out. They are an expensive car to buy but the quality makes it surprisingly cheap to run long term.
|
>>Around this time, Ford reinvented itself with the Mondeo, and has continued to launch brilliant, and largely still very reliable drivers cars ever since. For me, I would always choose Ford as a result.
My last breakdown was in a nearly new Mondeo 2.0 Tdci with a dead EGR valve! All the same, it was a very good car to own, and I'm a Ford fan generally speaking...
|
"I'm impressed with BMW quality. You lift the bonnet, and even on an old example there is minimal corrosion...."
Totally agree. I've had a Y-registered Z3 as a fun car for the last three years, and the quality is clearly inbuilt. As you say, minimal corrosion, and everything still works as it should.
|
>> You lift the bonnet, and even on an old example there is minimal corrosion
Perhaps an avenue for cost cutting looking at it from NC's point of view but i'm glad they took the extra effort and spent the extra money in the manufacture.
I'm tempted to blame the yanks, not sure i can fully justify that but it seems American culture to squeeze, reduce and optimise slightly beyond the reasonably acceptable. NC's comment about the eastern engineers and signs of the left hand not talking to the right is interesting. I've not paid much attention to eastern stuff yet but i no doubt will.
Hyundai's latest V8 seems to be pretty special but i don't think it's coming to these shores :-(
|
>>Perhaps an avenue for cost cutting looking at it from NC's point of view
It raises an interesting question.
During the design and development process, what is a reasonable approach for defining the corrosion resistance, or more generally, as per spamcan's point what's a reasonable definition of the reliabilty required.
As an example, over the break, I've been doing some jobs on our 20 year old Audi 80 [horrid thing that it is]. During my work, I have been able to undo every fastener I've put a spanner on - I haven't had to use anything but the standard spanner size. To my mind, the car is over engineered - the majority of these cars are now scrapped, and mine has no business being so friendly to me. The original purchaser of the car paid for entirely hidden features they didn't enjoy, and/or Audi could have made more profit on the car had they backed off a bit.
On the question of starter motor access - yes, it's great when a job is made simple by the design, but, I can't imagine many manufacturers have lost sales because the starter motor is difficult to replace [Vauxhall would never have sold a single Chevette!].
From an engineering design point of view, the design shouldn't be driven by maintenance alone, but, when good mainentance and low cost and low mass can be obtained together they should be.
An oft quoted example of good maintenance - the FWD Vauxhall clutch of the 80's and early 90's is an interesting example. The design came with two large costs. One, the bending stiffness of the engine and gearbox were compromised by the large cut-out in the bellhousing, and two, the two-part gearbox input shaft desing had a number of features which required tight manufacturing tolerances, and was, therefore expensive. During warranty, few clutches were required, and 2nd and 3rd owners were much more likely to take advantqage of the feature than new car buyers. Of the reasons why people bought Astras and Cavaliers at that time, I don't imagine too many were swayed by the ease of clutch replacement.
On the subject of corrosion specifically, expect the situation to worsen as, owing to environmental concerns, hexavalent chromium plating has been banned for automotive use.
|
...all just to unbolt a starter motor which is nominally well placed for fast removal (front bottom of the gearbox), it makes me think "stop being so cheap!"...
I'm not sure what car Skoda is referring to, but is an easy to remove starter motor much of a benefit?
We used to change them or lube the pinion years ago, but a starter is now one of those items which often lasts the life of the car.
It is therefore acceptable for a bit of work to be required on the rare occasion one has to be removed.
|
As with most things striking that happy medium is what the normal person wants.
Starter motors for example, yes they normally last many years but then as in the case of MB's first A class the engine/subframe has to be removed to get at the starter...that really is an example too far.
I'd rather have long life components than parts that last 2 years but are held on with wing nuts, however i don't want a car that has to be almost dismantled to get to parts likely to need attention at some point in the cars life, though that might be part of design strategy.
Classic example was replacing the leaking heater matrix on my son's Y plate Toledo, that must have been the first thing fitted to the bare shell, the whole dash had to removed, that meant most of the interior too to allow access.
Japanese cars seem to be built well and to be easily maintainable, though the hybrids might make some of us scratch our heads;), some Korean examples not so easy to work on, Hyundai Coupe/Elantra front discs an example to avoid.
None of it matters to those who buy new or nearly new and replace often, that's the market most manufacturers have aimed for.
|
...was replacing the leaking heater matrix...
Did one of those on an XJ6.
That was a job.
The dash had to 'come forward' - towards the driver - and I reckon each of those numerous rocker switches must have had four or five wires connected to them.
|
>> I'm not sure what car Skoda is referring to, but is an easy to remove
>> starter motor much of a benefit?
I think to be fair to Skoda, it's just one of many examples where jobs are made simpler. I wonder what will be the case when BMW starts to introduce it's front wheel drive models. In any case, my mechanic thinks that the new models are increasingly hard to work on, even doing an oil change isn't as straightforward as it seems. But he is a technophobe! They have to be invested in all the latest diagnostic equipment in order to diagnose faults, something many small operation just can't afford. No matter - he has plenty of work at the moment sorting out the cars from the last two decades.
|
Renault are particularly bad for, if not deliberately designing cars to be awkward to repair, then at least not paying any attention to labour costs or access for mechanical work as the car ages.
When the clutch failed on our Scenic, the bill came to just under £1000. £800 of it was labour (and this was an indie!). This is a car which you can't even change the main beam bulbs on without removing the bumper, grille and then the light units. Everything on the car was an absolute nightmare to get at or get off, and every mechanic who worked on it used to criticise its design and layout.
SWMBO's cousin is a BMW tech, and was telling me about the convoluted system they have to use for diagnostics. He cited an example the other day of a six month old MINI coming in with a non-functional rear brake light. He knew it was a bulb, but had to go through a step-by-step computer guided process of diagnostics, at the customer's expense, just in case the problem wasn't bulb related, and a warranty claim had to be submitted. Without following the process, the system will not generate the necessary "claim number", and the garage will not be reimbursed by the BMW warranty system for labour, or for any replacement parts. Apparently, there is a strict disciplinary process in place for all techs at this garage, if this is not done, and someone has received a written warning for it in the last couple of weeks, so nobody risks it.
He was also less than complimentary about the reliability of the current range of BMW diesel engines, particularly the four cylinder units. "Highly strung" and a pain in a sensitive part of the male anatomy were some of the words chosen.
|
1979 Fiat 127 - fan belt failed a quarter of a mile from the local car spares place.
Drove it there still (temp gauge was off the scale).
Replace then idled the engine and all fine.
Same car a year later alternator went. just disconnected the alternator (as it was draining the battery) and then slow charged the battery every evening. drove for a week then replaced alternator. very easy job to do.
Then two months later battery went.
1985 Vauxhall Astra 1.3l - brought with a dodgy engine. used to drive down the motorway and when the tappets started machine machine gun noises, pull over and put 5 litres of oil in. Then carry on fine.
1990 Ford Escort 1.6lx - heater fan stopped working on one setting - didn't fix anything until the fan stopped working completely. had to re-wire the loom to the fan as it had burnt out.
Then a year later one of the headlight clusters stopped working then the other side stopped working.
Had to re-wire the whole light clusters.
a horrible car in every sense. last carburettor engine I had.
1997 - Mitsubishi Carisma - only one headlight bulb needed to be replaced in four years of ownership !
Only mentioning here as it was a joy to get at any mechanical bits. massive amounts of room in the engine bay.
2002 - Vauxhall Astra 1.6l - numerous headlight bulbs needed to be replaced over 7 years of ownership. other than that fine.
2002 -Vauxhall Astra 2.0l dti - misses mis-fuelled car. fixed manually but did burn out the starter motor when re-priming the engine. two days to fit a new starter motor. hard job to do. Numerous small pipe fractures in the water system but the engine seems to be bullet proof. misses has even driven back from London with hardly any cooling liquid !
|
|
The last time? A 1987 Citroën BX way back in 1997. The clutch release arm snapped on the way home one night, got towed home, located a replacement at a scrappy for about a £5, fitted it and away I went. No break-downs since on a whole array of cars covering a distance of 10x around the Earth. Modern cars are pretty impressive really!
|
A short history of my cars' failures to proceed (as Rolls Royce describe a breakdown):
1991: V reg Austin Allegro recovered from the M25 after blowing so much oil back through its crankcase breather pipe it completely soaked the air cleaner element, strangling the engine. Removed filter element, car ran normally again :)
2004: 53 reg Peugeot 406 HDi recovered from the M1 after the gearbox comprehensively lunched itself.
2007: P reg Rover 418SLD non start at home. AA came out, ran some checks, diagnosed immobiliser fault, disconnected and reconnected battery, car started. Fault recurred a couple of months later, same solution :)
2010: R reg Escort temperature gauge climbed to maximum on M1 so I pulled into the services. AA came out, ran some checks, diagnosed temp sender fault, confirmed with IR thermometer pointed at various hoses that engine temp was in fact normal (very clever and reassuring, that!). Never did get it fixed - as long as it the radiator fan hadn't kicked in I knew the engine temp was below 100°C.
Other than the above I've never had a car fail to complete a journey. One point to note is the absence of my 300k-mile Skoda from the above breakdown list :)
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Tue 3 May 11 at 11:17
|
AA came out ... confirmed with IR thermometer pointed at various hoses that engine temp was in fact normal (very clever and reassuring, that!)
I have immense respect for the ingenuity and old-fashioned problem-solving ability of AA patrol people. One found and tamed the eccentric earth that occasionally made our Fabia's locks and alarm misbehave.
Another got me going when, on a horrible windy night, the Volvo's occasionally obstructive gearbox refused to select any gear at all; his diagnostic equipment comprised a lump hammer and a long iron bar, with which he reseated the selector cables. As he did so he chatted amiably about his holiday plans, which the high wind happened to suit rather well. I hope he enjoyed himself.
It's not a job I'd fancy much, but I'm very glad there are people who do.
|
|
I refuse to answer this, as it's most likely outcome will be a trip on the back of a recovery lorry!! Suffice to say that mostly my cars have been kind and 'broken down' within striking distance of home, and there have only been a couple of recovery incidents in over 1/4 million miles in mostly bangernomics cars. Most unreliable has probably been the last, and most expensive, one. Hmmm.
Last edited by: RichardW on Tue 3 May 11 at 22:08
|
>> I have immense respect for the ingenuity and old-fashioned problem-solving ability of AA patrol people
Me too. I was 90% sure it was just the temp sender, but I was 20 miles into a 100-mile journey and didn't fancy the consequences if I was wrong. Much rather get a bloke with all the right tools, training, experience and an online workshop manual to take a look at it, that's what the membership fee is for.
The patrol that attended was returning from Derby to Norwich after towing someone home, his data unit sent him to me at Leicester Forest East services as he was passing. Fantastic organisation.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi on Tue 3 May 11 at 22:22
|
...Fantastic organisation....
In my breakdown recovery days we worked closely with the AA, RAC, and the police.
Generally agree about AA men, although there were one or two numpties who I wouldn't trust to change a spare wheel.
It was the late 1970s, and motoring was very different.
Many faults were fixed by the roadside, and as a proper local garage we did major work routinely.
Cylinder head gaskets, big ends, pistons, clutches were common.
Owners in those days had little choice - if their car broke down it was get it fixed locally or scrap it and get the train home.
Two things happened which changed the way breakdowns were dealt with.
Cars, particularly their major components, became more reliable.
But the biggest change was the introduction of AA Relay.
We lost most of the breakdown work almost overnight.
I also think the AA lost a lot of its expert patrolmen.
All that was needed was the skill to pronounce the car unrepairable at the roadside, and the ability to winch it onto a flatbed recovery truck.
|
|
Only once ~ 1966, dirt in carburettor of Singer Chamois.
|
To update the original thread, car is back on the road. £29.00 used alternator from eBay and about half an hour's work. Battery spun the engine over fine, so seems OK assuming it holds a charge. 14.4v across the terminals when running, so the "new" alternator seems healthy enough.
Had an ABS light on initially, which my VW tech mate assured me was probably historic from the low voltage condition as the engine conked, and would probably clear itself after a few restarts. True to his word, it did just that.
|
>> To update the original thread, car is back on the road. £29.00 used alternator from
>> eBay and about half an hour's work.
Sounds good DP. Now all you need to do is budget for the DMF when that croaks :) How many miles has that TDi done now?
|
The TDi clicked over 120k on the way to work this morning. I am lining my mate up to change clutch and DMF this month. It's going to hurt, but the vibration, and the clutch slip around peak torque in the higher gears is at the point where I can't ignore it any longer. And the car has literally needed nothing other than servicing, bulbs and tyres in the 2.5 years / 30,000 miles we've had it for, so I can't complain too much.
If/when the DMF fails in the petrol one, it will be replaced with a solid flywheel, but the PD is apparently horrible with a solid flywheel.
|
>> If/when the DMF fails in the petrol one, it will be replaced with a solid
>> flywheel, but the PD is apparently horrible with a solid flywheel.
Yes, I would imagine people have tried this route, only to do the whole job again to get some refinement back.
|
All the reports I've read from people who have done a solid conversion on a PD complain about the noise and vibration.
I'm assuming the existing DMF on our car has lost much of its damping properties, and it truly is awful. The vibes below 2000 RPM under load are enough to rattle items in the door bins. To be stuck with this as a permanent arrangement would make me want to get rid of the car.
What's doubly annoying is it discourages me from driving the car in its 1800-2500 RPM "sweet spot". One of the things I've always liked is the way it makes real, back squeezing power at naff-all RPM. I can't use this at the moment without needing my fillings resetting :-(
|
...DMF ... going to hurt, but the vibration, and the clutch slip around peak torque in the higher gears is at the point where I can't ignore it any longer.
Yep, that was what told me summat were up wi' t'Volvo. Four-digit bill but the car now pulls as well as ever. Apparent cause was fluid leaking from the slave cylinder onto the clutch friction surface - which was barely half-worn at 114,000 miles - and the resulting slip did for the DMF. Doesn't support the folk-wisdom that DMFs themselves are failures waiting to happen - this one needed another component to fail first.
|
|
If only everything in life was as reliable as a Volkswagen...
|
The OP's thread illustrates why I'm too scared to keep a daily-driver beyond about 5 years or 80k miles. A perfectly reliable car can overnight let you down as a component "suddenly" wears out. Yes it might be cheap to fix, but that's little consolation if you're stranded at the roadside, (or worse the wife & kids) or you miss that flight/ferry etc.
I'm probably over-cautious, but I bet I'm not the only one...
|
I've only ever broken down once... car run to a halt. It was under warranty and about 2.5 years old at the time. Thankfully near home and a company car so got a hire car sorted that night too.
Could have been worse/less inconvenient (if a breakdown can be such) as we were on the way back from a hospital visit and not on the way there. After a few brief moments of loss of power it went totally and I cruised to a halt.... it was the EGR valve.
It is because of that incident and a few others that makes me stay in the car scheme. There was a stolen car in 2000, a car accident in 2002, the breakdown in 2006...
|
|
Nick, I have a lot of sympathy for that position, but on the other hand, the £500 I save month in month out by nor replacing my Honda (which I've had from new) could pay for a limo to come collect me and take me to my destination should something happen. Also, my car left me stranded twice before 35k miles, and hasn't missed a beat in the near 80k since. I'm not sure these things can be predicted.
|
It's precisely because these things can't be predicted that I get cagey!
My first motor was my Father's Fiesta 1.4 Ghia. He bought it brand new and got shot of it at 5 years and 90k miles. Main dealer serviced and faultless. 2 weeks in my hands and the electronic ignition module packed up. 2 weeks after that the battery dropped dead on the spot. A couple of months later the OEM exhaust was shot... See what I mean?!
In fairness, I then ran it trouble-free up to 116k miles and nearly 7 years and sold it privately for a fair sum...
|
1969, in a 1966 Volvo 121 Amazon. HT lead came off the coil. Opened bonnet, put it back on. Away we went. Things were easier in the old days.
2000, in a 1988 Polo. Hall Sender packed up.
|
|
I'd still like a 121 Amazon estate. Well, I think I would. A red one. I expect the reality would disappoint though.
|
Unlike you, Humph, I had a reliable Espace, but it was a 1988F which I had from new long before Renault's quality problems. At something like 100,000 miles the fastening at the engine end of the accelerator cable broke.
I'm no mechanic, but I felt quite pleased with myself as I tied it up with the cord from a swimming costume that I had in the car. Amazingly it lasted for several days before I got it to the garage.
|
I made a hand operated clutch from nylon string for my first wife's Mk1 Panda. The proper clutch cable had snapped in the Alps on a skiing trip. My goodness I treated that girl well but she was never grateful you know... :-)
We drove back to the UK like that. It was quite hard to pull due to the routing which culminated in its arrival through the passenger window and of course the strength of the spring, but by wearing a ski glove and pulling hard you could just about get enough clutch slip to manage.
|
|
Those early Espaces were fine cars, particularly with the 2.0 petrol engine. One of the best engines ever made with almost diesel-like torque. We had one on long term evaluation when they first came out (1984?) and it looked like something from another planet. Years ahead of its time.
|
You're right, that was a terrific engine with bags of torque. I had six Renaults in a row with that engine, followed by a Laguna 3.0 V6 - all were very reliable and none ever used a drop of oil, despite my doing 25-30,000 miles a year. The Espace did 125,000 miles and the Safrane and Laguna over 100,000 each.
The last one, the Laguna, was a 1998R: I stopped having Renaults when I changed jobs to one with a higher salary but no company car. I was lucky to miss the drop in quality post-2000.
|
Volkswagen Golf IV - Third breakdown of driving career today... - Stuu
