Mike Hannon's post reminded me that I'm in a similar position.
I've used an independent car mechanic for years and I'd trust him with my life. I was chatting to him after my 306 HDi had had its service and sailed through its MOT. (First time it's managed a "fast-pass" too!)
But it's now got 133,600 on the clock. Over 110,000 of those done by me. Same clutch from new. In its time with me: one new battery; one new exhaust; four new brake discs; various tyres; headlamp bulbs. That's it. A/c non-operative a few weeks ago - uneconomical to repair. (I've been missing that recently.)
All in all, the best car I've ever had - the most reliable, the best to drive. But we reckoned, my indie and I, it's time to move on, before the big bills start.
Diesel is out, we agreed - whatever the make. Too complex, unreliable and expensive to fix. He should know - he sees all sorts.
I never buy new; let someone else take the depreciation hit, is my philosophy. The 1.6 FSI engine was pretty good, he reckons. But I look at the cars - Mk V Golf. Overpriced, surely? Octavia - like hen's teeth and won't fit in the garage anyway. Then I read they should be run on super unleaded; no, thank you.
By now you will get what I want: a 306/Golf-sized car (length around 4 metres) with a petrol engine that is economical but has at least a little oomph. Above all, I want something really, really reliable and preferably fun to drive.
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>> all, I want something really, really reliable
In that case you want something Japanese
>> and preferably fun to drive.
Oh, thats kyboshed that then
You havent said the most important thing. BUDGET
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Nonsense, Zero. Mazda 3 petrol. Japanese, reliable and fun.
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Octavia / Fabia with a TSi engine.
The Yeti's the one to go for really but if you think Octy's are rare... they live up to their name on the 2nd hand market :-)
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>> Nonsense, Zero. Mazda 3 petrol. Japanese, reliable and fun.
there you go then CP, question answered.
Next!
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2.0, of course. I had a 1.6 for a day once and it was somewhat asthmatic.
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@ Zero
No, I didn't mention budget. I thought the fact that I'd considered a Mk V 1.6 FSI Golf might be an indication.
So, maybe £6000 - 8000?
Last edited by: ChrisPeugeot on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 12:32
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Das ist der Bunny, mein Herr.
Wouldn't mind one myself.
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Hm. Interesting.
Mazda 3 2 litre: length 4.435 metres. Fuel consumption: 26.6 - 44.1 mpg.
Won't fit in the garage... however.
What's the real-world fuel consumption?
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Dunno but I'd guess at around 30-35mpg.
What's your exact size limit? 4 metres dead, or a bit more?
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@ Alanović
Maximum 4.3 metres.
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Here we go. Deep breath. I can't believe I'm going to say this.
BMW 120i.
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"I can't believe I'm going to say this."
And I can't believe you just said that. Have some manners, please.
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I do apologise. But in all honesty the 1 and 7 series are the only BeeEmms which appeal to me. Might look at a 118/120d for the missus in the fulness of time.
My beef with BM is purely prejudice, inerted snobbery if you like, about the "sort" who usually buy and drive them. I would need a brown paper bag over my head. What's your beef, CP?
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"What's your beef, CP?"
Not prejudice, as such. I reckon the engineering is pretty good, from what I hear. I just can't cope with the image. I couldn't bear to be on the receiving end of all those negative thoughts.
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Fair enough. Like most people I suppose at one time I might have been unduly concerned about what others, indeed even strangers thought about my car. Then, about ten years ago, my personal penny dropped. It fairly suddenly occured to me that I don't care what anyone else drives so why would I begin to care what they think of my car? Have whatever you want I say, whatever fits your life rather than anyone else's opinion. Their view simply doesn't count, yours does.
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>> Have whatever you want I say, whatever fits your life rather than anyone else's opinion.
I've come to the conclusion i'm an automotive trend setter... This time last year i had the only new Octy in our street. Now they're all copying me!
Pretty diverse choices normally, the only other car that there's a few of is BMW 3 series.
In fact, i think i've been trend setting in Lanarkshire generally. When i ordered my first one, there were no other Vrs's about, now i see at least 3-4 a week on the roads.
I don't buy into the idea that Skoda are just more popular because of their deals :-)
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>> Fair enough. Like most people I suppose at one time I might have been unduly....
>> ...Their view simply doesn't count, yours does.
Indeed, quite right Humph, too much score is made by what wheels you drive or how they look.
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The trick is to recognise that those views are generally more intense from the inside looking out. With the exception of real extremes I can't think of any examples of someone's car choice leading me to decide whether to like someone or not and it took me a while to realise that few would bother to give a flying fig what method of transport I choose to use. Car bore banter excluded of course...Goes without saying.
:-)
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 15:15
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Absolutely old boy, well said. If I drove a squashcow that would be my uptake as well.
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Joking aside, I would take that view no matter what happened to be on my drive. It would be there because it suited my needs, wants and budget at the time, not to provide any form of sociological signal to anyone else.
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Joking aside, I take the view that if I have to drive anywhere and I look out onto my drive and my heart sinks and I think "I have to drive that", then it has to go.
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I don't care what people think of my car either. Still don't think I'd drive a BMW; too many negative connotations. Other road users treat you differently.
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Well, I suppose my judgement is coloured by a form of inverted snobbery really. I've spent my whole working life around and with "brands". Those who are close to such things tend to take a cynical, albeit commercially grateful view of the realities of their supposed "values".
:-)
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quite true Humph
Speaking as someone who has owned a Marina (not the yachtie type) Mini Clubman and Fiat 128 etc I dont give a fig what anyone thinks of my motors.
And even if I did, after a few miles in a 330i my opinion would change.
There's a thought...how long is a 330? And I'm totally convinced that my 31mpg average is more than acceptable.
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Er, so you intend spending £6k to save a few hundred quid bill??? Madness. Keep the pug, fix the aircon. Any bills can't be as massive as buying a newer car that will still need money spending on it.
Unless it is likely to cost you £2k a year, every year, for the next 4 years it is cheaper to keep it.
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TB: "...it is cheaper to keep it."
I have considered this. If I confined myself to shortish local journeys I might keep the Pug.
One of my reasons for wanting to change is that, once a year or so, I tend to do a European driving holiday - driving to Italy, for example. And fairly frequently I visit family in Cornwall and Newcastle. (I live in Herts.)
I have a dislike of the prospect of breaking down a long way from home with an expensive repair needed. Even with breakdown cover (which I have only for driving abroad) that would be a major hassle.
Last edited by: ChrisPeugeot on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 13:19
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>> One of my reasons for wanting to change is that, once a year or so,
>> I tend to do a European driving holiday - driving to Italy, for example. And
>> fairly frequently I visit family in Cornwall and Newcastle. (I live in Herts.)
>>
Have you thought about hiring a car for the foreign/longer trips? That could be quite fun, and a lot cheaper overall.
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>> By now you will get what I want: a 306/Golf-sized car (length around 4 metres)
>> with a petrol engine that is economical but has at least a little oomph. Above
>> all, I want something really, really reliable and preferably fun to drive.
>>
2 litre petrol Focus.
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I might have suggested a Qashqai, they're quite good really, not sports cars but ours seem reliable enough if not quite up to the standards I've experienced with Fords but they're 4.32m long. Could you not sort of bow your garage door a bit..? The 1.6 petrol one seems to be fairly comfortably getting 42mpg+ in real life use.
:-)
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Just like to point out that the current Clio is on some models over 4m. Cars in their respective classes have got longer since the 306, so may be worth looking at cars which are psychologically smaller but actually arent anymore.
Pug 207 is actually longer than a 306...
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Hmm...Reliable AND fits in the garage
Toyota Auris? 4220mm in length. 2008 model with 24k miles for 8 grand. (Decent kit.)
Shame about the drive, but two out of three ain't bad (and they are the two essentials).
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Yeah, if I got an Auris I would want to hide it in the garage as well.
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Civic Type-R (previous model)?
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>> SEAT Leon?
>>
Good shout, but a bit tight to fit into the OP's garage. The Leon is 4315mm long.
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a swift sport or is it a bit small? or
Civic type s
Last edited by: sooty123 on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 21:09
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If you want reliability and fun to drive, go down a class and look at the Suzuki Swift Sport 1.6. Not sure how it would be long distance, but it ticks most boxes. Easily fits in the garage too.
EDIT - Ha, you beat me to it sooty :) I'd like to try one myself.
Last edited by: corax on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 21:08
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>> If you want reliability and fun to drive, go down a class and look at
>> the Suzuki Swift Sport 1.6. Not sure how it would be long distance, but it
>> ticks most boxes. Easily fits in the garage too.
>>
>> EDIT - Ha, you beat me to it sooty :) I'd like to try one
>> myself.
>>
me too it was on my short list last time, still on the backburner
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how about a honda civic the current generation either the 1.8 vtec or the 1.4, petrol, reliable and probably fit your garage
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You are right, sajid. The previous shape type-R is 4140mm, so it should fit in the OP's garage.
Autotrader has one for 8k with 42k miles. 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, so it shifts a bit.
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The current Civic is a retrograde step, mechanically and reliability wise. Someone has already mentioned the previous Type R. I think (some of!) the later versions are quite appealing. One for sale near me. One "lady" owner the poster says. Oh yeah. I've seen it on the move. Has to be trickled along, or even Ribble Valley police (rest home for the uninterested) might get woken by the drain-pipe exhaust.
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Which leads me to another ideal car. Previous shape Honda Civic 2.0 Type S. As long as you like the looks. And the dashboard mounted gear lever.
EDIT - just noticed sooty's already mentioned it. Are you my shadow sooty?
Last edited by: corax on Tue 26 Apr 11 at 21:39
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We've got one of the Type S 2.0 breadvans. Not bad at all! Had it 8 years from new. Only 54,000. Full Honda SH. But keeping it, until the ideal/even adequate, dog-carrier reveals itself, at the same time cash is available.
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I'd think of the Swift as well. Try to find a 1.5 if you're buying used: the new model has dropped that engine, more's the pity.
Or if the Leon and Octavia are too long, what about a SEAT Ibiza or Skoda Fabia?
Mazda 2 - there's a 1.5 version of this which must be quite fun to drive.
The old Honda Civic is a good car, especially the 2.0 S as mentioned above - how long is it though? The new one has dangerously poor rear visibility.
Last edited by: Avant on Wed 27 Apr 11 at 00:01
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>>>used an independent car mechanic for years and I'd trust him with my life..... Diesel is out, we agreed - whatever the make. Too complex, unreliable and expensive to fix. He should know - he sees all sorts.
Sounds like an indy who is out of date and somewhat intimidated by the modern diesel.
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Sounds like an indy who is out of date and somewhat intimidated by the modern diesel.
>>>>
>>> really?
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>>> really?
Absolutely.... loads of them about who were OK on petrols and the old TD diesels... just about managed with the first HDi but just haven't had the time/finances for the training and equipment needed to support the latest diesels.
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out of date
intimidated
dont go together though
separate issues im happy with
i saw a mint mondeo 51 plate go to its maker yesterday because its injun was not economically repairable
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>> a mint mondeo 51 plate go to its maker yesterday because its injun was not economically repairable..
TDDI or TDCI?
I only ask as daughter's other half has a Mondy TDDI of that age
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I feel sorry for the chap across the road. He's 70 but still working running his own small business which involves a bit of travelling. He bought what seemed to be a very nice Signum 6 weeks ago from a friend. Known history, just the one owner. 54 plate I think. Top spec model. Leather etc. Looks in excellent outward order. 60 odd thousand miles. 2.2 diesel manual. Pleased as punch he was with it. Paid about £3.5k for it I think
Last week I saw it being taken away on a low loader. Yesterday he tells me the verdict is nearly £4k to fix it. Multiple problems with fuel pumps, wiring loom and a couple of other things I can't remember.
It's currently at the local Vauxhall dealer. I'm going to put him in touch with the Vectra C forum to see if he can get some guidance. Trouble is, he's not a car man and might get a bit confused.
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>> It's currently at the local Vauxhall dealer.
That's a pity, sounds like just the job for a competent Diesel spec to get his teeth into.
Feel for the bloke though, and that is the danger of used Diesels, especially the more modern variety.
Did this 'friend' bung a load of petrol in 8 weeks ago...probably not, but he'll never know or even suspect.
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Just spoke to my neighbour again. Seems someone has put him in touch with some under a railway arch type outfit in Brum who will recondition the fuel pump. Tried explaining to him gently that he should only consider this if he's looking to sell the car fairly swiftly afterwards. Suppose he's between the Devil and the Deep Blue mind.
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>> Paid about £3.5k for it I think
This price level seems to be a bit of a murky water. You could get something really nice or end up like your neighbour. And the problem is it is still a tidy sum, it would be different if you'd picked the thing up for £800-1500.
>> Last week I saw it being taken away on a low loader. Yesterday he tells
>> me the verdict is nearly £4k to fix it. Multiple problems with fuel pumps, wiring
>> loom and a couple of other things I can't remember.
Is it really that totalled? Is this the expert verdict? I thought that was the old lump that was in the Saab 93 for a while - supposed to be a bit unrefined but long lived. Of course I might be wrong.
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Well I agree Corax. I like GBs suggestion re a diesel specialist. For the sake of the cost of having it trailered again I think he could save a pretty penny. Just that he's one of those who really doesn't understand or take an interest in cars and I can tell he's not sure what to do. I want to help without of course interfering. I've given him the link to the Vectra-C forum and tried to encourage him to ask for advice there.
Last edited by: Humph D'Bout on Thu 28 Apr 11 at 20:39
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>> but just haven't had the time/finances for the training and equipment needed to support the latest diesels.
But surely the fact that is common says something on it's own? You don't hear of "petrol specialist" garages, yet various local businesses here advertise themselves leading with "we are diesel experts" etc.
Even given this specialisation, it's still all to common to hear of issues, some terrible, some just niggly, that "can't" be solved with diesel engines.
Hopefully it'll blow over in a couple of years -- although the old style reliable diesels are mostly gone from everyday use, and most folks driving middle aged diesels are in the famously unreliable early 00's to mid 00's just now, in a few years they'll be in the late 00's diesels which appear to have mostly fixed the shortcomings.
Soon they'll be viable 2nd hand propositions again, but right now it's hard to disagree that the early to mid 00's diesels are potential timebombs, waiting to write off the owners investment.
Last edited by: Skoda on Wed 27 Apr 11 at 11:27
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On average with the age range you quote for *dodgy diesels* running costs are far more likely to be every other item before the engine and diesel system.
Two recent examples where relatives had *timebomb* shocks on mid-2000s diesels. VW in for service/MOT and racked up a £700 bill overall to include tyres/brakes. Peugeot in for MOT cost £600 to include tyres/suspension bushes/brakes.
The engines of course are perfect.
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In that case, i wonder why CR injectors (£150+ each?), HP fuel pumps (£200+ each?) and VNT turbos (£350-£1500+ each?) are such hot property then ;-P
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i think poor fuel is a big issue
garage i know got water in their tanks 10 years ago,cars were stopping dead all over,massive constipation claims
tanks renewed in floor, garage says problem solved
have i ever gone there for diesel again?
have i chuck like
i go to the bp station on the hill never ever had a fueling issue
did i mention poor servicing too?
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Well they're not hot property in my world... or that of my broader family (to pick just one sample group) who 99% run diesels... never needed the spares.
The problem is massively overstated.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Wed 27 Apr 11 at 12:16
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In our workshop at work, we have not one, but 2 'state of the art' CDI/turbo/greener than green diesel cars (prestige make) with the engines out, due to major injector issues.... (both the same problem.)
I know of at least 4 more cars with the same basic engine, with the same issues....
Modern / bargepole / wouldn't / diesel / touch / foot / twenty / a / with / a
sort the above words to get my feeling on the subject......
Last edited by: swiss tony on Wed 27 Apr 11 at 21:54
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The Mercedes Blue Efficiency engines had a well documented injector issue. I've read reports of them failing within hundreds of miles, never mind hundreds of thousands, as well as an engine failure rate of 1 in 4.
I don't think this is a reflection of modern common rail diesels in general. Just one manufacturer with a design fault, or who has tried to push a parameter or two a little bit too far.
I'm of the opinion that most common rail diesels are fine, but the ones that do go wrong tend to cause a big commotion because of the astronomical repair bills involved, and/or the ease with which their technical complexity defeats many dealer technicians.
My VW tech mate reckons the common rail VAG 1.6 and 2.0 are proving very good so far, with hardly any coming back in to his workshop for attention outside of the service schedule. That said, he also reckons another year and few more high milers will tell the full story.
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I've driven a variety of diesel cars and vans since 1992, and have only ever had one diesel fault - a failed EGR valve on a 5-cylinder Mercedes engine. So from my experience the horror stories are over-stated.
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Another "What next?" case - Zero
