A video clip
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13147629
"A row is developing among car enthusiasts and road users about the potential risks of super-bright headlights.
The headlights- called HIDs and commonly referred to as bi-xenon - are much brighter than traditional headlights and are sold as a safety feature.
But some road-users claim they are often dazzled by the lights, making pedestrians and cyclists difficult to see. "
also an item on the One show tonight.
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The dazzling will mainly be from numpties fitting HID lights (or xenon bulbs) to headlamps without the auto range adjust.
Bi-xenons are HID yes but HIDs need not be Bi-xenon. My current car does not have bi-xenons because full beams are normal bulbs. My next car will be bi-xenon with the same light used for dipped and full beam with the car blanking out part of the light when not on full beam.
I can tell you the bi-xenons on the car I am getting are very bright when on full beam. Which is why I am getting them. They also change direction with the steering wheel.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 20 Apr 11 at 17:01
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The trouble is, even on cars with OEM fit HIDs the self levelling system is far too slow to compensate for dips, humps and potholes in the road. So oncoming drivers are intermittently dazzled, it's certainly happened to me a few times.
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>> The trouble is, even on cars with OEM fit HIDs the self levelling system is
>> far too slow to compensate for dips, humps and potholes in the road. So oncoming
>> drivers are intermittently dazzled, it's certainly happened to me a few times.
>>
Exactly. This is why the self levelling feature actually needs to be disabled and the lights set correctly. Then they won't dazzle!
The biggest offenders seem to be mercs. Their lights are massively bright but the beam points everywhere except on the road it seems.
Also with after market HID conversions there are poor quality ones that don't use the right ballasts and electrical gubbins so they flicker a lot in normal use anyway.
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Three points to take away from this:
(1) The taxi-driver probably needs his eyes checked if HIDs are dazzling him that regularly.
(2) The only car with HIDs that seem to dazzle is the Range Rover, and they're worse from behind rather than approaching. Presumably a factory fitted option to encourage slower drivers to move over.
(3) Since when do taxi drivers look where they're going anyway?
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I had to nip out in a Range Rover for an hour in the snow last December. I felt rather guilty about how its headlights dazzled everything coming towards me - they were set so the cutoff hit the road about 100m ahead, but the lights are mounted so high off the floor that they're above most oncoming drivers' heads. The self-levelling was working fine, it just seemed that the beam pattern was too broad.
My cousin has a Focus Titanium with xenons, he says the contrast between the lit and dark areas of the road in front of him actually makes it harder to see detail away from the lit area, compared to conventional halogens with a bit of beam scatter. His commute is mostly on unlit but busy Cambridgeshire A- and B- roads.
HID lights aren't going to go away, so we'll just have to accept them I guess. I specifically avoided them when looking at cars for sale because of the extra replacement cost in case of bulb failure or accident damage.
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As an MOT tester the problem with dazzling headlights is more related to aftermarket fits and vehicles that hacve been repaired in body shops. The second problem is those that fit illegal blue tint bulbs that sometimes are mistaken for Zenon loghts ! This I feel is the most commn issue. TBH my cars that have been fitted with them have a real cut off line which makes vision difficult beyound that line.
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>> The dazzling will mainly be from numpties fitting HID lights (or xenon bulbs) to headlamps
>> without the auto range adjust.
No its not, its OEM fitted as standard HID lights.
As below the cause is the rubbish self levelling system employed, make the dam things flash up and down blinding you on the "up"
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What I find is that some cars have lights that are too bright. They are not a problem for being xenons. I suspect some fit bulbs that are not suitable that are actually too bright.
One thing I miss on my current car is the auto dimming rear view mirror. Sometimes the odd car (often older and therefore unlikely to have xenons) have very bright lights. Yes you can manually adjust the dipping rear view mirror but the auto dimming ones are better because dipping it loses a lot of rear vision but you have to to see anything behind in the glare. And the glare is in the door mirror too. Which is why as well as having auto dimming rear view mirror as standard, my next car will also have a dimming door mirror on the driver side.
I concur with Injection Doc that it's the very bright blue lights (people trying to pretend they have xenons) that are the major problem.
As for cut off lines... my next car will have direction lights and I did extensive testing late one night on the snake pass. I also did the same route in my car (HIDs but not bi-xenon and certainly not directional) and the difference is worth the extra.
Last edited by: rtj70 on Wed 20 Apr 11 at 18:15
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>> The dazzling will mainly be from numpties fitting HID lights (or xenon bulbs) to headlamps without the auto range adjust.
Some numpties however go to the trouble of making sure their aftermarket HID lights are correctly set once they've fitted them, and responsibly use the manual height adjuster inside the car to compensate for passengers and when extra weight is put in the boot.
Having had mine since Sept 2009, I can count on one hand the amount of times I've been flashed, which is considerably less than when I had bog standard 55w halogens.
Also, some numpties buy the wrong aftermarket HID kit. They're the ones who've got plain lenses (not projector lenses) and don't buy the kits with the added reflectors on the HID bulbs. They're also the numpties who buy them purely as a fashion accessory.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 20 Apr 11 at 20:13
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>> "A row is developing among car enthusiasts and road users about the potential risks of
>> super-bright headlights."
Not true, a row is developing between anyone who'll listen and old folk who don't have enough on their plates right now and thus are bored and this is just one of the many many outlets for their boredom right now. ;-)
1st error.
>> The headlights- called HIDs
2nd error.
>> and commonly referred to as bi-xenon
3rd error.
>> - are much brighter than traditional headlights
Correct. ~3000 lumens vs ~1000 lumens, but also wrong. The crux of the problem as i understand it is the colour of the light rather than the brightness.
>> and are sold as a safety feature.
4.5th error.
>> But some road-users claim they are often dazzled by the lights
5th error - some road users == only the old people who need a war or something to keep them occupied ;-)
>> making pedestrians and cyclists difficult to see.
Please surrender your licence, you are not safe to drive on modern roads.
Do you think i'm biased? :-) Could get a gig at the daily wail...
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There's no doubt in my mind that HIDs can add to the difficulties of oncoming drivers.
Skoda may well be right to suggest that 20 year olds with eyes like outhouse rats generally have little problem, but middle age increases the challenge of night driving, without a doubt. Older eyes have less dynamic range and shadows are hard to see into in the face of a bright light.
You don't have to be 85 and half blind to have a problem with these lights. A lot of older drivers avoid night driving anyway, and even brighter lights must be increasing the number of people who do this.
As it happens, I have just acquired a new car with HIDs. They are certainly bright, and the main beam throws a long way. But I would still class them as "60 mph lights" on an unfamiliar unlit road with occasional bends, junctions etc. - 60mph being about the safe limit for me with decent halogen headlights. Main beam would be good for a higher speed, but dip is no better than the halogens - as Injection Doc says there's a very sharp cut off with blackness beyond.
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As Manatee says...when you get older you become less tolerant to these bright lights.
I rarely drive in the dark now. I let SWM do it if possible.
If I'm visiting friends a fair distance away, I usually take my kit and stay the night. A roads, like the A49 back from south Shropshire is just a nightmare for me.
Others have no thought or consideration. I was tailgated by something fast on full beam
He obviously was local and knew the road, I didn't and was looking for an address in the pitch dark. I got a load of horn as he eventuelly whipped past.
Any driving in the dark is around the city now, my Vitara has a rarity that you don't seem to get now.....dim-dips. Just a big area of light with no beam. Adequate for city driving imo.
I prefer the bike at night...a third the width of a car and no windscreen to look through.
Ted
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>> Others have no thought or consideration. I was tailgated by something fast on full beam
Driving home from Risley until recently could be a pain. To avoid the usual holdups on the M62/M60 I'd go M6/M56/M60.... the number of cars either on full beam or using bulbs far to bright was annoying. The rear view mirror would have to be dipped but the driver side mirror still would have glare.
I'd try to let them get by because there'd normally be one or two like this. If this was dipped and not main lights then I'd not want to approach them!
The problem has been around for years but I've avoided too much evening driving the last couple of years. And both cars before (Mondeo and Passat) had auto dimming rear view mirror. Looking forward to having this again in October. And a heated windscreen for the winter. And heated/climate seats.
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I have not noticed a major issue with Xenons on other vehicles however I did find that the superb xenon lights on my now departed Focus ST dazzled me by reflecting back strongly from road signs.
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On cars that had genuine HID lights I had no problems with being followed or oncoming. I have a problem with the numpties (Dave not a numpty!) that have bright bulbs for dipped. Or driving on main beam.
Every now and again some might flash me thinking I have full beam on but that's maybe once or twice a year. And when they flash me I'll flash them back to show I have bright lights ;-) Well sometimes.
But the bi-xenons on the Passat CC on order were better than I've experienced and I have xenons now (not full beam).
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My main dislike of oncoming cars is those which have one dipped beam set too high. I suspect that in some cases it has been done deliberately by the owner to give a better view of the road.
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>> those which have one dipped beam set too high
That just plain annoys everyone though and transgressors should be tied up in an elaborate contraption which holds their eye lids open while pointing their head directly at the beam!
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Campaign re - over 'dazzling' HID car headlights - rtj70
