Motoring Discussion > How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings?	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: L'escargot	Replies: 35

Mon 18 Apr 11 18:53   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - L'escargot

How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings when choosing their next car? I don't. I have no idea what rating(s) my car has. I trust the manufacturer to keep up with current trends. Last edited by: L'escargot on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 18:54 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 18:56   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - rtj70

Depends on the manufacturer to trust I guess. Many will be fooled into thinking a supermini rated at 5 will be safer than a family car that's rated 4. But many don't realise the safety ratings are only comparable in a car class. Suppose it makes sense. A 7-series BMW will always be safer than a FIAT 500. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 19:08   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Zero

The cars are all tested the same way, and the stars are all issued the same way And you probably havent seen the videos of big old barges hitting smaller 5* rates vehicles. The barge dummies came off worse. You for example were hit by a lorry. Maybe the lorry was barely damaged but the important thing is that you walked out of it with a cut to your head. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 19:27   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - RattleandSmoke

Mine was 3* but had no ABS or passenger airbag when tested or it would have been a four star. I know a few people have survived some very nasty accidents in Pandas so not too fussed about it. If I was doing lots of motorway driving I would want something bigger though. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 19:31   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Stuartli

>>If I was doing lots of motorway driving I would want something bigger though.>> I thought you still had to do much driving at all Rattle...:-))) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 19:36   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Lygonos

They are a factor in decision making, but like fuel economy figures, manufacturers can be better or worse at 'setting up' their cars for the specific tests. Pre-NCAP cars will almost invariably do worse that more recent cars as the way the front deforms is very different to the old concertina effect. A 5* supermini vs a 4* SUV head on will still probably work in favour of the much heavier car, but when comparing similar sized vehicles they are at least an indication of crash-worthiness. Currently have an FRV and a Shogun which I believe are both 4* vehicles - happy with that. One problem is car safety is a bit like an arms race - as cars are made more "safe" they become more lethal to older vehicles, and the upshot is never-ending weight increases. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:09   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - rtj70

>> as cars are made more "safe" they become more lethal to older vehicles New cars have structures like crumple zones to absorb energy of impact so would benefit both cars. Remember some stars awarded due to pedestrian impact too. And you can improve a rating by (for example): - knee airbags - pop-up bonnets (for pedestrians) - warnings for unfastened seatbelts Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:15   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Zero

>> Remember some stars awarded due to pedestrian impact too. No they are rated separately , and do not go towards the passenger safety ratings. A pop up bonnet does not get you a points for a passenger safety star. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 09:47   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Alanovich

>> Currently have an FRV and a Shogun which I believe are both 4* vehicles - >> happy with that. >> >> One problem is car safety is a bit like an arms race - as cars >> are made more "safe" they become more lethal to older vehicles, and the upshot is >> never-ending weight increases. >> Er, you write your last sentence as if it's a bad thing, after saying that you're happy with running 2 SUVs. Do you not consider your own choices to be part of the problem? Or are you exempt in some way? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 16:34   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Lygonos

I'm not a legislator or a car designer so have little input into car safety or weight increases. I do have 3 children and occasional other family members to run around so my choice of vehicles reflects this. And a Honda FRV is not a "SUV", it's more like a slightly higher Civic. But thanks for asking anyway. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 16:51   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Alanovich

>> I'm not a legislator or a car designer so have little input into car safety or weight increases. You are directly involved - by buying an SUV (the Shogun) you're creating demand for heavy vehicles, which is why they are made. >> And a Honda FRV is not a "SUV", it's more like a slightly higher Civic. You're quite right. I misread your post and thought you wrote CRV. Apologies. I quite like the FRV. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 17:10   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Lygonos

Interestingly enough the demand for Shoguns appears to have fallen (at least in the UK) hence it was being offerered at £8k below 'list price'. So I guess the lack of general demand led to me being more likely to buy it (I would never pay near list for such a car). If that makes any sense! With respect to the weight, all cars have bloated over the past 20 years (ie Sierra 1100kg, Mondeo 1500+kg). I'd probably be more likely to buy a Shogun sized car if it was lighter and thus more economical - VW managed to make the very heavy (2400+kg) Touareg lose over 200kgs with no obvious effect other than better economy and dynamics. As it is I bought it because it was (relatively) cheap and more practical than the Forester it replaced (which couldnt get 2 kids' seats in the rear behind me with the driver's seat fully back). Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:06   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - rtj70

I am referring to current 7-series vs current say FIAT 500. The ratings are only comparable within class of car. I never referred to old cars, you did ;-) It was more than just a cut though - lucky I am only 5 foot 8 otherwise the rip to my scalp (right through) would have been damage to skull. Hospital surprised injury not worse I gather - but CAT scan confirmed. So anyone thinking a 5* small car is as safe as say a 4* small car is being deceived. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:09   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - RattleandSmoke

It depends on other factors too, big cars are possibly more likely to involved in accidents due to their mass, a good small car can steer or avoid the situation easier. Many small cars have poorer brakes but when comparing stopping distances between superminis and large cars there is very little in it. Visibility can be an important factor too. As for weight there is now a trend to reduce weight because of emissions and MPG so they have to improve safety in other ways hence the obsession with millions of airbags. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:32   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - John H

Rattle, You should try researching the subject before rattling on about it. tinyurl.com/6yg2z8v Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:12   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Zero

The ratings are not by class of car. The ratings are the ratings, they are all tested the same way they all meet the same size block, and all have to meet the same requirements to get stars. Have you seen the big chinese car that bends in the middle on the crash test? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:15   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - RattleandSmoke

I always understood they were for the class of the car and not comparable. E.g a 5 star 7 series is probably safer than a 5 star FIAT 500. That said as shown by the Chinese cars are lots of big cars which are far more unsafe than a Fiat 500. There is a link some where on the net showing a typical yanktank (brand new) being crashed and a Fiat 500, the FIAT won. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:27   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Lygonos

The ratings are based upon the Car under test vs. an inanimate testing structure. In reality the "testing structure" is likey to be far from inanimate, and for this reason it is to be expected similarly rated cars of significantly differing mass will be safer for the occupants of the larger vehicle. www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pVF1Wr7GLQ = 5* FIAT 500 vs AUDI Q7 (initially 4* but now 5* I think) I'll take the AUDI thanks Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:33   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Lygonos

I said: "as cars are made more "safe" they become more lethal to older vehicles" rtj70 said: "New cars have structures like crumple zones to absorb energy of impact so would benefit both cars." This is untrue because NCAP cars have massively stronger crumple zones than pre-NCAP cars - the entire front will tend to deform rather than just the section struck in a crash - this means an NCAP car will tend to punch through an older vehicle. www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQS-7heF-og NCAP Espace annihilates pre-NCAP version Other similar tests can be found such as www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBDyeWofcLY Renault Modus (small family car) vs Volvo 940 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:52   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - rtj70

www.euroncap.com/Content-Web-Page/0f3bec79-828b-4e0c-8030-9fa8314ff342/comparable-cars.aspx Euro NCAP’s frontal impact test simulates a car crashing into another of similar mass and structure. In real life, when two cars collide the vehicle with the higher mass has an advantage over the lighter one. Generally speaking, vehicles with higher structures tend to fare better in accidents than those with lower structures. Therefore, ratings are comparable only between cars of similar mass and with broadly similar structures. Euro NCAP groups cars into the following structural categories: passenger car, MPV, off-roader, roadster and pickup. Within each of those categories, cars which are within 150kg of one another are considered comparable. So which would you prefer to be in... an NCAP 4* 5-series (the latest model was initially a 4*) or a FIAT 500? Zero says he'd prefer to crash head on to a 5-series in a FIAT 500. He's as stubborn as Cheddar in the F1 thread ;-) Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 20:54 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 20:57   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Zero

I didnt say I would prefer to crash in a smaller car, I said you are just as safe. You got hit by a truck in a small car, and I got hit by a bus in a medium car, and here we are arguing over it in life, not heaven. Argue your way out of that! Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 21:07   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - rtj70

Our car was hit from behind and the car structure buckled right up to the front driver/passenger cell. It was the buckling roof that ripped the back of my head open and knocked me out. I have no memory from just after impact... hearing the rear of the car being crushed is the last I remember before I woke up in the ambulance but my wife and others thought initially I was dead with all the blood loss and being unconscious. The Fiesta was about 1 foot shorter. But NCAP does not test rear impact (yet) :-) Had the car been longer then we'd have been safer. My accident was not representative of NCAP tests. My point is the test measures how you'd fair in a crash in real life. The test is crashing a car into a stationary object and testing the outcome. So the small car absorbs it's own energy and protects you and might do well. The larger car could do equally well. The reason for say a 4* BMW 5-series test might be in need of a tweak. But the crash of the larger car had to demonstrate and ability to absorb more energy than the smaller call. So yes a small car crashing into the same stationary block is comparable, but momentum says a real world impact head-on would be different. Very different. Head on collisions (off side test in NCAP) are not so common but I know I'd prefer a larger car. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 21:03   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Zero

Hitting the test mass thing is a load of cobblers. Its stationary, its not going anywhere, its mass doesn't matter. Its size does, it need to contact the same amount of car for a big one or a small one. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 21:08   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - rtj70

>> Hitting the test mass thing is a load of cobblers. Its stationary, its not going anywhere Cars in head on collisions are moving though. Hence the test is as you say cobblers. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 21:38   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - zippy

I consider them as my most valuable possessions are in the car! My wife and my two kids! Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 21:44   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - rtj70

So would I Zippy. The fact is the frontal impact test is against in immovable object for all cars. In the real world it could be a large car that is moving towards you. Which is one reason I'd always go for a bigger heavier car.... I assume a Passat CC is heavier than Z's Mitsubishi: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:A6M3_Zero_N712Z_1.jpg Not that I hope to have an accident anywhere. The other benefit for me is length of car after the hire car I was in was rear-ended.... that was 2006 though. Last edited by: rtj70 on Mon 18 Apr 11 at 21:44 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 22:07   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - zippy

True! But for folks on a budget or size limitation then it is at least a bench mark. I remember seeing a last edition Corsa on the M25 near Dartford a few years ago, 03 ish egg shaped car. The front had totally gone. All passengers were "safe" on the hard shoulder! Cars are certainly better then they were because of the uniform safety rating. I also think some of the new innovations such as accident avoidance systems (microwave radar connected to brakes) are a good idea, but obviously there will be situations where these systems won't save the car from an accident and more effort needs to be made to keep drivers alert and having police on the road to correct erroneous driving where appropriate! Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 18 Apr 11 22:07   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Zero

Mine doesn't smoke as much Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 00:07   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Dave_

NCAP rating was one of the main reasons for getting a newer car - went from a 2 star to a 4 star. Having looked at pictures of crashed Escorts vs pictures of crashed Mondeos I hope that, should the worst happen, we'd be a bit safer in the bigger one. I know that Isofix mountings, seatbelt warning lights and airbag warning stickers all boost safety ratings so I paid more attention to crumple zones, airbags and impact bars as those are the bits you use when it comes down to it. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Tue 19 Apr 11 at 00:08 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 00:13   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - RattleandSmoke

The Escort is actually a lot worse than it seems. In 1998 (three years after 95 model went on sale) they made it stronger because they new it would perform dismally in the NCAP test. If the revised model only got two stars how bad was the 1995-1998 model? The Mondeo isn't safer because its bigger though (although it is a factor) the Escort for some reason just had very poor safety. If you look at crash tests of the 95 Fiesta they actually look better than the Escort. However in your case the Escort was probably made of rust so it may not have even performed like a 2 star car. The Mondeo is a much much much better place to have an accident I would have thought but I still wouldn't want the experience. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 04:51   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - idle_chatterer

I look at NCAP ratings and decide accordingly but I suspect many don't. Otherwise there'd be pressure on manufacturers like Skoda to fit the full compliment of airbags / ESP that their VAG brethren have as standard rather than as (albeit low cost) options. Many modern small cars fare better than SUVs in these tests, which is sobering and informative. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 08:01   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Cliff Pope

It's all a load of nonsense. The only important factors are aggression and how close you drive to the vehicle in front. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 18:30   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - corax

>> Have you seen the big chinese car that bends in the middle on the crash >> test? Yes, and the one where the bulkhead uses the drivers knees as something to impact against. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 10:08   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Alanovich

I consider the NCAP ratings when buying cars - I will not go below 4 stars for a daily driver, and I wouldn't consider the smallest cars whatever their NCAP rating (like C1, Spark, Picanto etc), as the rear of the car is far too close to the back seat passengers for my personal tastes. Look how close the rear headrests are to the rear screen in a C1 and you'll see what I mean. I don't want my children's heads there. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 22:35   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Bellboy

ncap might be important for some but for the majority its price end of if it fits the pocket if colours right lad and t warranties reight she'll ave it see naw then abart price Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 19 Apr 11 22:36   How many drivers actually consider NCAP ratings? - Lygonos

Know a chap who bought a 100k miler Megane diseasel from auction largely due to the 5* rating. Bad move..... Reply to this message | Report message