Well during the snow I was on a motorway in a blizzard & the snow was building up under the n/s wiper & building up on the o/s screen preventing the wiper doing a full sweep! The out come is that it has bent the linkage according to landrover & will not be replaced by L/R under warranty! The arms are OK but the linkage is bent causing a shorter sweep.
Now I am awaiting a call back from l/rover customer services but it appears you can't use these vehicles in the snow! ( so it sounds like its not fit for purpose ) The service manager did admit to seeing a few of these having done this in the snow. No the wipers hadn't frozen to the screen! I'm very aware of this as a problem in the ice & snow & the fact that the n/s wiper is bent up & the O/S one down proves that they were not frozen to the screen when in the park position.
Now the interesting part is the vehicle has a 2nd fault & always has done but dealer couldn't find fault when in for service so ignored it but the wipers go off on their own when the key is out of the car! & I have video of that from inside the car with the key removed from the dash so when they challenge my wiper issue tomorrow it could be very interesting!
Not impressed at 18 months old.
Any one have any experience with a Ford Kugar diesel yet? & has anyone towed a twin axle caravan with one? I just wish it was 2.2?
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I quite liked driving the freelander2, but was less impressed when we spent 20 minutes trying to lock my niece's freelander2 in a bitterly cold motorway services. Keyless entry isn't all its cracked up to be, and the locking on hers has been playing up since day 1.
Disappointing that it should bend the linkages. I got worried about the snow buildup on my landcruiser so pulled over a few times to clear it. Fortunately no bending for me.
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Ah now the keys don't have replaceable batteries! they are rechargable like contactless tooth brushes & so the keys need to be swapped regularly & the vehicle has to cover some serious miles to charge the remotes for locking!
This is clearly stated in the handbook & I thinkit may be something like 250 miles to recharge.
My wife & I swap keys every few months.
I have to say it drives very well indeed but i hate faults!
Sadly due to having been struck by a car at very high speed on a motorway whilst staionary & suffered 2.5 years off work i wasn't going to stop to clear the wipers!whilst on the motorway & I am seriously justified in commenting on that.
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You've hit on a pet hate of mine, because all or most of the cars I have owned suffer from a build up of snow at the end of the wiper arc, reducing the amount of sweep more and more the longer you drive. They never seem to site the vent so it will deliver warm air to the edge of the screen to keep it clear, a simple enough way to solve a problem that must be well known about.
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>> Any one have any experience with a Ford Kugar diesel yet? & has anyone towed
>> a twin axle caravan with one? I just wish it was 2.2?
>>
Just get it chipped. I'll give you a Guy's number if you wish.
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I think yours is an auto isn't it Doc? Last time I looked, there wasn't a Kuga automatic.
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So, after 18 months, the grand total (I assume you've not missed anything out) , you've had
a wiper problem in a blizzard & a naughty wiper going off when you take the key out?
Although any fault with a car is annoying & tiresome, perhaps you're being a wee bit pernickety here? You don't even know that your service won't sort out the minor glitch of 'wiper going on' yet - give them a chance at least.
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Well spoke to Landrover customer service today & they consider snow "as an act of god" & Will NOT replace mechanism under warranty. As the service advisor said you can't use in the snow! "so not fit for purpose" it also needs the turbo replacing & it has some weird electrical gremlins all recently appeared! so now very dissapointing after just 18 months & only 14000 miles I guess the real driving experience is just beginning !. Service & support is poor poor poor.
I did want an Automatic but will try a Kugar at the weekend & see if the clutch & G/box are light to control.
My wifes fords & mine in the past have always been very good & never had any issues with warranty.
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Jut been offered a 24 hour test on a Freelander - perhaps not then.
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landrovers are always giving trouble, why doe snayone bother with them anymore? waste of money
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well pugugly, try it for the experience but I say do not buy one! I love the way mine drives & the grunt on the auto is excellent & if the Kuga was a 2.2 I would buy one tomorrow but I am so dissapointed with Landrover over their attitude to a bent wiper mechanism! the Katie at Customer service even suggested I should have stopped & cleared the snow! Im sure when on the motorway!!!!!!!!! then she suggested turn off at the next exit! well I did that anyway but it was 17 miles on in an absolute blizzard!
Well if thats the support I get from Landrover just over a wiper mechasim I have no faith L/R now & have lost interest now.
I visit approx 5 garages a day & meet lots of clients & shall do my best to advise customers to leave well alone L/R haven't changed at all.
I will strip out the mechanism at the weekend & inspect as Landrover couldn't even tell me what parts I would need to order! or give me any prices I think the dealers just as bad.
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>> I will strip out the mechanism at the weekend & inspect as Landrover couldn't even
>> tell me what parts I would need to order! or give me any prices I
>> think the dealers just as bad.
>>
I would not be surprised if the wiper mechanism is only supplied as a complete unit.
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I was amazed when the whatcar freelander2 broke down for several weeks with amysterious electrical fault, but they still continued to rave about it. It is great to drive, but if it leaves you stranded its useless!
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UPDATE! well I arranged to collect a wiper mechasim complete with motor from another landrover dealer some miles away only to find that the unit was £41.00 complete! so I questioned was it cheap & instock because they are a common problem. Well an extremely help full & interested foreman came out & looked at mine & when he saw the position of the wipers he could tell it wasn;'t normal & hadn't been caused by them sticking to the screen in the frost & said he would not hesistate in replaceing them under warranty.
Now the more interesting issue was he took one look at the BBus sounder & said it hadn't been changed for a modified one & the faulty ones cause the wipers to trigger on their own! so he will replace that as well & when I explained the other issues he aggreed that it sounds like a bad earth triggering off reels of faults. Its booked in a couple of weeks time & they are going to check the turbo as the guy said he had never replaced one yet & at 14k it was a little premature & thinks all the faults are caused by an excessive voltage drop which is what I have also suspected!
Just goes to show how important the right person is at the front of the dealer ship. So fingers crossed & will update when fixed. Ford on hold untill visit to new dealer to see if issues resolved, I actually have confidence that it will be fixed. The guy spent nearly an hour with me discussing the faults & checking out the car. So refreshing to find someone interested, as I suspected the other dealer has become to blass'e about customer service
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In my experience 50% of whether a car is good to live with depends on the dealership where it is looked after
A bad dealership can put you off a marque for life
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>> I was amazed when the whatcar freelander2 broke down for several weeks with amysterious electrical
>> fault but they still continued to rave about it.
They can't upset their advertisers, can they now!
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Is there a link to the article ?
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I agree with commerdriver 50% of problems could well be down to the dealer. I love the way it drives & the grunt for towing but lack of support from a dealer can seriously sour a relation ship with a car.
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Perception of how the issue is dealt with can make a big difference to your opinion of a marque - I think that a dealer can handel several issues well and keep your business versus one who manages one small issue badly
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Look at this from an engineering angle.
If sufficient snow builds up to prevent full movement of the blades (and it can and does) something will have to give. Blade, Arm. piviot. linkage.
Carry on doing it - something will break.
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>> Look at this from an engineering angle.
>>
>> If sufficient snow builds up to prevent full movement of the blades (and it can
>> and does) something will have to give. Blade Arm. piviot. linkage.
>>
>> Carry on doing it - something will break.
>>
Exactly, quite how you can blame Land Rover for something caused by weather conditions is beyond me!
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I've never heard of snow stopping a wiper from working! Perhaps they install different kit for more severe climates? I doubt that! If LR design vehicles for fair weather use only, shouldn't they say?
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>> I've never heard of snow stopping a wiper from working!
It can overload the motor and blow the fuse.
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I had them jam on my 1960 Morris 1000 - Be horrified if they happened on any car of mine these days.
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>> I had them jam on my 1960 Morris 1000 - Be horrified if they happened
>> on any car of mine these days.
>>
But why?
snow still weighs the same today as in 1960.....
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Because I expect the standard of 21st century engineering is better maybe ?
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Because these are sold as tough go anywhere vehicles. It's not like powdered snow is that heavy.
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>> Because these are sold as tough go anywhere vehicles. It's not like powdered snow is
>> that heavy.
>>
we are not talking about powdered snow, as the wiper moves down, it will be packing the snow, after a time the snow will be more like ice, and that is when the damage is done.
anyway, wiper mechanisms are not designed to move a mass of snow, just a light dusting as it falls from the sky.
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If snow has built up whilst stationary, and the wipers inactive, certainly. Then the driver has to clear the mass of ice. But on the move, it surely is something the wipers should deal with?
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Unless you want industrial standard or hydraulic mechanism costing many hundreds of pounds with forged steel blades they just won't shift packed snow or ice, and it does pack down hard with each stroke when driving in below freezing temps.
If they were strong enough for that use some clot would get their fingers trapped and removed by the things and sue the maker, they can't win.
In all my years of heavy snow driving i've not yet driven a vehicle that i didn't have to periodically stop and clear the blades and the bottom sweep area to give the system some sympathy and aid it to continue working, mostly trucks with really quite tough mechanisms, and of course tap the packed ice out of the rubber blade so it can get back to the screen again.
When wiper arms were push fit they'd just slip and chew the arms female splines or worse the male spindle, these days they are usually tightened with a bolt and don't slip so easily, something has to give.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Mon 29 Mar 10 at 21:29
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When I drove in Scotland in the 1960s -70s in real driving snow, it was usual to stop and clear the screen of fixed snow.. It happens.
Perhaps the OP wants a flame thrower mounted externally to melt it? :-)
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It seems that many people have little experience of driving in heavy falling snow. Including my daughter who bent the wiper linkage on her Citroen Picasso while driving during our recent snow event. My policy is if the wipers show any sign of struggling, stop and clear the obstruction (snow). Oh the joy of being an old duffer with a little mechanical sympathy. Especially if I have to pay for the repairs.!
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 30 Mar 10 at 09:48
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There should be an easily replaceable weak link in the linkage then - not a costly one piece linkage and motor.
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Why, it is operator error. My daughter has been advised, fat chance of it registering, but at least she got it fixed.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 30 Mar 10 at 09:55
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>> Why it is operator error.
Wouldn't you prefer a company to try to help their 'operators' rather than punish them?
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Neglect or abuse any other part of a car and see how helpful the manufacturer is.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 30 Mar 10 at 10:00
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>> Neglect or abuse any other part of a car and see how helpful the manufacturer
>> is.
And that's good? :)
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Navy's quite right about this, common sense and a bit of mechanical sympathy is needed on such things.
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>> Navy's quite right about this common sense and a bit of mechanical sympathy is needed
>> on such things.
Agreed, but the manufacturer who makes some allowance for their customers' mistakes (and let's face it their are a heck of a lot of customers who don't meet the criteria you state) stand to do better I would have thought than those who don't. Not always practical of course.
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I think the problem is that we live in a temperate climate so people don't expedience heavy snow very often. I doubt if there is a mass destruction of wiper mechanisms in Scandinavian or Alpine areas each winter.
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>> Agreed but the manufacturer who makes some allowance for their customers' mistakes
Trouble is some people won't use their noddle unless it hits them in the pocket, chew up wiper linkage by neglect and the maker changes it willy nilly for free and the user will carry on regardless.
Chew up wiper linkage by neglect of obvious precauctions...is it frozen/clogged/obstructed...and the user gets a bill for x hundreds of pounds, i bet they don't do it again.
Last edited by: gordonbennet on Tue 30 Mar 10 at 11:17
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>>Chew up wiper linkage by neglect of obvious precauctions...is it frozen/clogged/obstructed...and the user gets a
>> bill for x hundreds of pounds i bet they don't do it again.
>>
I hope that applies to my little girl, (and her husband), she was advised by both of us! :-)
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 30 Mar 10 at 11:23
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>> Chew up wiper linkage by neglect of obvious precauctions...is it frozen/clogged/obstructed...and the user gets a
>> bill for x hundreds of pounds i bet they don't do it again.
...and they might buy their car from someone else next time!
Add something that breaks more easily, costs £1 to fix and charge £20, and everyone's happy :)
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>>Not always practical of course.
But in this case I don't think it should be too difficult.
1. Maybe the wiper motor is too powerful. What is the use of a motor that will bend the mechanism before it stalls?
Or 2. As Pugugly says -There should be an easily replaceable weak link in the linkage.
Or 3. The fuse should blow before mechanical damage. To be really helpful they could replace the fuse with a re-settable circuit-breaker and maybe even put it on the dash within easy reach.
But I won't suggest a return to vacuum operated wipers !!
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But I won't suggest a return to vacuum operated wipers !! ?
Nothing wrong with vacuum operated wipers.
A source of great amusement: to passers by and other motorists..
Add a proper reserve tank and they would last up a hill for at least 20 seconds..
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And a good way of getting your own back on annoying passengers.
Find a downhill section, lift off the throttle, make sure all windows are closed, turn off heater/ventilation, reach under the dasboard and pull off the vacuum connection to the wiper 'motor'.
Instant depressurisation!
Smile at the howls of anguish as their ears 'pop' (if you can tolerate your own discomfort).
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The point you have missed is that the snow built up in just 17 mile stretch of motorway & it was not safe to stop & clear , having been rear ended on a motorway before & ending off work for over 2 years I am hardly likly to stop & even L/R aggreed at that point. The wipers couldn't even cope with the snow ice build up on the o/s of the screen iether & I consider a vehicle of this nature should be a little more robust! I always ensure the wipers are free from a frozen screen before starting.
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>> The wipers couldn't even
>> cope with the snow ice build up on the o/s of the screen iether &
>> I consider a vehicle of this nature should be a little more robust!
Presumably other 'ordinary' vehicles were managing ok? I would have thought LR wouldn't like their vehicles to be considered less able to cope with adverse conditions. After all you don't buy them for performance and handling.
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>> After all you don't buy them for performance and handling.
Sorry that sounds a bit negative - wasn't meant to.
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It might be that the design around the base of the Freelander windscreen promotes snow buildup?
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I run with 50% screenwash winter mix in bad weather so it melts any snow: it is liquid until -20C iirc...
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On all the cars I have had, heavy snow has built up somewhere usually at the scuttle.
It packs more and more snow in there, it gets like an iceberg, and bigger, and the wipers cant move through the full circle. I have always been aware that something will give in those circumstances, the laws of physics decree that it must.
In this case, if LR had built a really solid mechanism, the fuse would have blown, the wipers would have stopped, you would have been blind and you would have had to stop on the motorway anyway.
you cant blame LR in this case.
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>> you cant blame LR in this case.
You might if everyone else was ok (don't know if that is true).
Last edited by: Focus on Thu 1 Apr 10 at 10:27
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Well put it like this. The Altea jammed snow into the recess in the A post. A lot of it. I stopped and cleared it fairly often and didnt have any wiper problems after.
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Land Rover Freelander 2 - I think I'm about to fall out with Landrover - Tigger
