| Motoring Discussion > Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. | Miscellaneous |
| Thread Author: Runfer D'Hills | Replies: 61 |
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New Thu 25 Mar 10 20:27
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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Branding eh ? What a minefield. Get it right and you are on to a winner. Get it wrong..... Automotive ( or should that be emotive ) brands carry so much weight, some carry baggage. For example, try a few of these phrases on your subconcious. Vauxhalls all rust Fords are all tinny French cars are all unreliable German cars are all good Italian cars all fall apart All Japanese cars are unbreakable All Volvos are safe BMWs are desirable BMWs are undesirable Audis are classy Audis are expensive VWs VWs are expensive Skodas Of course none of the above is true, some small element of each statement might now or once have had some credibilty but the perception lives on and becomes its own false reality. The marketeer's nightmare is the potential customer who will not consider purchasing his brand because he had a bad experience with a vehicle sharing that label 25 years ago. The fact that the company has changed hands several times, that the products are made often in a different country, never mind factory, that the people who built and sold him the problem car are probably all dead or retired never really registers with the disappointed and disaffected consumer. He hates that brand and will tell anyone willing to listen that they should not buy it. I too admit to some brand prejudice for equally weak reasons, I try not to but it is hard to fight ones own irrationality. For example, I'd still be slightly nervous of choosing a Skoda for reasons which became invalid a lifetime ago in automotive terms. What prejudice do you confess to, but know is nonsense ? |
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New Thu 25 Mar 10 20:55
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Stuu
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I have an aversion to anything which has ideas above its station. I consider it utter foolishness to purchase any car which has a price inflated simply by way of the badge, whos image was earned long ago when the differences between a quality car and a cheap one were tangible and obvious. The obvious example of the VAG group of cars - everyone knows they share alot underneath, so it seems utterly cycnical to claim that the Audi is really worth so much more than the Skoda. This annoys me intensely - dressing me in smarter overalls and charging more does not make me any better valeter and while VAGs approach makes perfect marketing sense and is great for profits, its just too cynical for me to buy into the dream. I would buy a Skoda though. I just refuse to be lead by the nose by some markerting types. |
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New Thu 25 Mar 10 21:21
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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I admit to having paid for badges and might do so again. I'd like to believe not through snobbery but even I'm not fully convincing myself on that one. I would prefer to reason that my motivations were driven by a combination of desire and an occasional ability to afford to do it. Having said all that some of my fondest memories are for cars which made no pretence to high status. I shall probably never buy another Renault which is a shame but there are bad experiences and there are terrible ones....A pity really because I do like some of their current model range. Someone, it might have been John Harvey-Jones, once said that it is ten times harder to get back a customer you once disappointed than to keep one who has only recently become disenchanted with your product or service. Once you have lost them in other words, they've gone for good, but if you can solve their problem quickly and efficiently, they actually become more loyal. Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Thu 25 Mar 10 at 21:22
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New Thu 25 Mar 10 21:56
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - RattleandSmoke
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This probably more accurate:- Vauxhalls - well built but bland to drive Fords - great to drive but rust too early French cars are all unreliable but you get some gems. German cars - too expensive but make some nicer higher end stuff. Italian cars - fun to drive, induce passion and the complete opposite to VW. All Japanese cars - A for fans of the What Washing Magazine. All Volvos are safe by chineese standards BMWs are desiriable company cars. BMWs are driven by chavs and drug dealers. Audis are classy but still a bit 'german'. Audis are expensive VWs VWs are expensive Skodas I am buying a FIAT simply because it dosn't fall to pieces (hopefully) and I believe the car is the cheapest possible way I can make motoring fun. I actually also like all the fix it again today jokes because I know its far from the truth (unless its a Stilo). Last edited by: RattleandSmoke on Thu 25 Mar 10 at 21:57
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New Thu 25 Mar 10 22:04
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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It possibly all went pear shaped when it became desirable to have a lifestyle at the expense of having a life. Think I'll have a cup of tea. :-) |
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New Thu 25 Mar 10 23:32
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Londoner
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In alphabetical order Alfa Romeo- For fans of car workshop waiting rooms Audi - VW's with nicer interiors BMW - Misunderstood enthusiasts and snobs Citroen - Suddenly respectable Fiat - Quirky fun Ford - Unappreciated quality Honda - Automotive equivalent of a Swiss Watch Hyundai - The new Skoda Jaguar - Gloriously Gorgeous Lexus - Tarnished Luxury Mazda - Cool value Mercedes - For people with the money to buy a BMW, but the good taste not to Mini - Marmite car Mitsubishi - Anonymous Nissan - Most original thinking designs Peugeot - Renault with a dash of class Renault - Quintessentially French. Hit-and-miss. Skoda - The thinking man's car Subaru - Cheapest thrills to be had on a budget Toyota - How to wreck a 50 reputation in 6 weeks Vauxhall - No-nonsense blue-collar salt-of-the-earth car Volkswagen - Good cars for people who don't like cars Volvo - Quality for the individualist |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 07:11
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Mike Hannon
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| I've never allowed myself to own a Ford (yes, I know all about the XJS) -something about Henry Ford employing gun-toting thugs to subdue his workforce I think. But every time I've ever driven a Ford I can see why so many people buy them. Sadly, they'll always be the product of the clever but arrogant capitalist thug for me. Life's rarely simple, is it? |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 12:26
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Bagpuss
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>> This annoys me intensely - dressing me in smarter overalls and charging more does not >> make me any better valeter and while VAGs approach makes perfect marketing sense and is >> great for profits its just too cynical for me to buy into the dream. I >> would buy a Skoda though. I just refuse to be lead by the nose by >> some markerting types. >> I would avoid anything made by Toyota then, other than the Yaris. Toyota are the world champions in reusing components from the cheaper models in the more expensive models, including Lexus. In fact some Lexus models (notably the ES and GX) are simply tinselled up Toyotas (in this case the Camry and the Landcruiser). |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 10:13
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Paul Robinson
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The 'Audis are expensive VWs, VWs are expensive Skodas' thing made me think of a time when I was doing some consultancy work for a Company where the staff were paid on a performance related basis. The branch manager would encourage staff to buy expensive cars. Not everyone responded, but plenty did. Some might say he did this so they worked harder to pay for the car and his bonus was based on how much business the branch did, but most of the staff who bought expensive cars did a lot more business than was necessary to cover the cost of the car. Lots of subconcious and intangible factors, I expect someone somewhere is doing their PHd on this! |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 10:25
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Alanovich
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| Where does SEAT sit in this purported VW hierarchy? Is it a sporty VW, an expensive Skoda, a cheap Audi? |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 11:04
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Stuu
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Seat is an expensive Skoda, marketed as a sporty VW - a bargin alternative to an Audi :-) I actually like Seat as they have very individual styling, that makes them distinct. Its all good. |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 11:43
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Dieselfitter
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>>Where does SEAT sit in this purported VW hierarchy? Designed to appeal to the younger end of the market? It's an inescapable fact that your car says a lot about you, and I don't much like this. I came very close to buying a Subaru Legacy last year, and I like them partly because I think they are quite anonymous - most people wouldn't recognise one at all. The local dealer was brilliant, with no pressure and allowing me as long as I wanted for a test drive, but somehow I couldn't get on with the car. I've since also noticed in HJ's column that the boxer diesel has had significant problems with it's DPF, so perhaps it's just as well. |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 20:25
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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>> It's an inescapable fact that your car says a lot about you and I don't much like this. Now there's an interesting discussion point to explore. I'm not arguing for or against that statement just idly curious to examine it. On a personal level my experience is quite the opposite. As it happens I work in the fastest end of the fashion industry. An environment where appearances would, you would imagine anyway, be strictly scrutinised and assesed. I've turned up to important meetings on the bus, in clapped out old cars and vehicles which some would regard as prestigious. The mode of transport has never measurably affected the success or failure of the meeting as far as I can work out. Every day, we all see a wide variety of people driving all manner of vehicles. Does anyone really care what anyone else drives ? Would you for example, care if a representative of a potential supplier turned up to meet you in a Ford or a BMW or Skoda or a Merc provided they conducted themselves in a proper business like manner ? I really don't think I would. Contrarily I don't think your car says much about you to others, I do though think it says quite a lot to its owner and affects their self esteem. The irony being that no one else cares very much. Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Fri 26 Mar 10 at 20:28
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 20:57
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Stuu
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My dad use to own his own company. When he went to customers, he took his brand new Citroen XM, when he went to the factory, he took my mums battered BX - he always said it didnt do to let it be known that you were doing well from the business to the workers. By contrast, when I turn up at customers, they dont pay much attention to what Im driving unless it has changed, in which case I get passing comment. You woul imagine that the well-heeled would care whether you have a shiny appearance, but actually they really dont. Just aswell in my case! |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 21:38
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - RattleandSmoke
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When my dad first set up his business he turned up in this. i167.photobucket.com/albums/u141/amazingtrade/lada.jpg He then replaced it with a 1 year old Punto SX so he got a lot of comments asking if he had won the lottery or something. People just assumed driving that Lada he must be poor. |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 23:13
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Londoner
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>> Contrarily I don't think your car says much about you to others, I do though think it says >> quite a lot to its owner and affects their self esteem. The irony being that no one else >> cares very much. Humph, that is a really, really good point! I have to thank you, because it started me off on a train of thought that made me discover something about myself. Thinking back to the cars that I have had, the ones that I feel positive about are those where the car's image matched my own self image. (I like to think of myself as an ordinary value-for-money sort of guy, rather than someone who is flashy or badge-conscious) I owe Humph a virtual pint. |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 23:17
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - RattleandSmoke
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I would say the same about me, but I have never liked poverty spec cars too much. I had two cars without power steering and they are a nightmare in a crowded city. I might get a sticker on my new car saying "I am still poor, the finance company owns this car!" |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 23:43
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Londoner
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>> I might get a sticker on my new car saying "I am still poor the >> finance company owns this car!" >> LOL :-) Did you think of that one? If so, I'm impressed! |
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New Fri 26 Mar 10 23:52
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - RattleandSmoke
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Yep as I am under no illusions I don't physically own the car. It is an exact reverse of when I was growing up and dad had the Lada. Everybody took the mick out of it but all the other mums and dads drove company cars and often probably earnt half what my dad did. My dad actually had a well paid job and we did have money, we were the first people on our street to get a computer, the second to get a PC, one of the first to get a VCR. We went on holiday (UK) about five times a year and had a good qualility of life. However people just assumed we were poor because we had a Lada. Nobody stopped to consider the reason my parents could always afford to go away is because the Lada cost nothing. The only reason I have bought a brand new car is I was sick to death of the cost keeping older cars on the road, it is a bottomless pit all cars are. My car car is a bottomless pit but at least every scratch and dent will be my own. And there is no chance of finding dodgy things under the passanger seat!! I am actually confused about what image a new Panda would have, it is brand new so costs something, yet its still a very small and basic car. It probably has an image of "that guy doesn't like cars much" which is actually very ironic. I would have bought a brand new Alfa if I had the money. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 01:19
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Londoner
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I like the sound of your dad. A man after my own heart. Panda image? I'd say "fun and quirky town driver". I don't think it fit a middle aged male driver, but if you are under 30 it should be right on the button! The Alfa Mito is very hansome in red, but a tad expensive. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 09:23
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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In danger of getting too deep into human psychology but interesting nonetheless. It is often age related but some are fortunate enough to get to a place early in life where peer or social pressure to conform to a template become less relevant and personal preferences and needs take priority. In early life choices are made by parents, later self-expression takes hold but often is strictly guided by the fashions and influences of one's peer group. The workplace or social environment one finds oneself in and indeed the economic circumstances derived from that steer decisions such as car choice. Later still, practicalities such as space for children, affordability etc often come into play. Still though there is subliminal pressure to conform to certain guidelines. Conspicuous displays of, often spurious ,wealth, alleged lifestyle and personality markers are the very lifeblood of the automotive marketeers strategy. Think how much more attractive to the potential purchaser or user is the "GTi" or "SRi" or "Sport" badge even when applied to a vehicle of mundane actual ability and with little tangible benefit over its more plainly badged cousins. The brands which attract some and it has to be said, repel others, can hold great power over the self esteem of the user. Of course there is nothing terribly wrong with buying what you want rather than what you need. That can paradoxically be even more satisfying than being practical. Ultimately, most non-utilitarian purchases come down to sex. The projection of one's persona or self perception through subliminal flags and markers, dress codes, hairstyles and indeed vehicles. The female is pre-disposed to seek out the alpha male or as close to one as she feels comfortable with within her tribe The male seeks to display the characteristics of such a being within the context of his social environment and the clever marketeer recognises the tricks needed to stroke those insecurities and ambitions. They can be as simple as a badge. Eventually, through the self confidence built from the wider aspects of life, the fortunate adult learns to recognise these traits in him/herself and only to pander to them through choice rather than influence. Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sat 27 Mar 10 at 09:23
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 09:32
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Baz
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| Wow! Excellent stuff! You've summarised and explained everything I've ever pondered or tried to work out marvellously into one post! |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 09:28
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Baz
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I am actually confused about what image a new Panda would have,........... I think it's one of those cars that's pretty universally liked. We have two in our family and we all fight over who's driving them! But I know people who've said they wouldn't ever drive one! It's a funny old world! |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 09:53
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - CGNorwich
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| Panda is I believe perceived by many as a feminine car hence the reluctance of the traditional macho male to want to drive one. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 10:43
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Dog
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>>>Panda is I believe perceived by many as a feminine car<<< That's like saying a Volvo is an old buffers car, but plenty of youngbloods drive em. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 11:25
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - CGNorwich
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That's like saying a Volvo is an old buffers car, but plenty of youngbloods drive em. Exactly . We are taking about perceptions not reality. Both Fiats and Volvos are simply bits of bashed metal. A Fiat Panda is no more feminine than my lawnmower but it is a human attribute to add human characteristics to inanimate objects and that is what is manipulated by marketing men. Look at the name of the car - Panda = soft ,warm round, cuddly = baby=feminine. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 11:42
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - RattleandSmoke
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| Great does that mean I need to change my prefered Inn to some where on Canal Street? |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 12:22
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Westpig
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Some years back I fulfilled a lifetime promise to myself to buy a Jag. That 'need' will no doubt have come from my childhood, when my step-father had quite a few. A weary divorce put fuel on that particular fire, so off I went to a main dealer and came back with a 2.5 year old high spec, low mileage example (S Type, when they were still quite new). It took me 3 months to have the courage to pay all that money for a car though. I bought it for me...a lifetime ambition type thing... and a thought of 'you can't take it with you' and 'why not'...as a then recently single again bloke I had no dependants, a good job, a good pension and a house well into being paid for, so what the hell. Some of the comments I had from people at work and wider than that e.g. in my local pub, had me realise that some people at least, thought i'd bought it for some sort of image reason or 'look at me'. That could not have been further from the truth and to be honest it became irritating..but..if you tried to deny it, it just looked like you were protesting too much. Nowadays the thing is approaching 11 years old, so I presume i'm now the mad middle aged bloke with the 'old Jag'...it matters not...I enjoy it, always did so and have promised myself that i'll keep it in good fettle and eventually run it as a Classic. I don't even mind the fact that a financial decision then, in retrospect, wasn't the wisest now i'm married with a young family..that was then, this is now...and the pleasure I still get driving it, far outweighs any guilt re an extravagance. Why do some people have to 'lable' people and presume things that are not accurate. It was never about anything else than I wanted something automotive that was 'nice', just for me. P.S. Not aimed at Humph, whose post I found interesting and informative. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 11:56
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - PhilW
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"Panda = soft ,warm round, cuddly = baby=feminine." Yeah but.... "has a body typical of bears. It has black fur on ears, eye patches, muzzle, legs, and shoulders" "Giant pandas have large molar teeth and strong jaw muscles for crushing tough bamboo" "generally solitary, but they do communicate periodically through scent marks, calls, and occasional meetings. Offspring stay with their mothers from one and a half to three years." "a panda must spend 10 to 16 hours a day foraging and eating." "panda spends much of its day resting, feeding, and seeking food" "pandas reach breeding maturity between four and eight years of age. They may be reproductive until about age 20." Perhaps it's our perception of Pandas that is wrong! By the way - do you have a very feminine wife and a cuddly baby!!!!????? |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 11:59
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - RattleandSmoke
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It dosn't look very feminine on this picture www.dsalmon.co.uk/images/panda2.jpg It looks like a ultility town vehicle is which is what I bought if for. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 13:12
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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The psychology of purchase motivation in particular relation to branding and labelling is a subject dear to my heart and has been central to my entire working life. Albeit in my case not in an automotive field. I naturally enough find the subject fascinating and am perhaps more than usually dispassionate and analytical about it. It might amaze those who strongly believe that all their purchase decisions are made from a position of cold rationality to discover how so very much they have in fact been influenced by external and deliberate marketing forces. Demand for most things can be created quite easily given will, effort and budget provided the product or service has at least some tangible credibility. Keeping the customer happy after the purchase is made is a whole other skillset of course. The consumer is at his/her happiest during the "desire/need/anticipation" phase of the purchase. Flaws in the choice are overwhelmed by the positive emotions of aquisition at that stage. Only after the deal is done and the product is in use do the weaknesses in the decision become apparent. Think of the car you so wanted but later regretted buying or found was not really suited to your needs or budget. Frustration, boredom, disatisfaction can creep in and the purchase cycle begins again. Desire for the next purchase builds and so on...... |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 13:47
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Dog
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>>> The psychology of purchase motivation <<< Pure, pure Genius, and very very true,but also more than - a little worrying! |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 14:23
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - ....
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>> The consumer is at his/her happiest during the "desire/need/anticipation" phase of the purchase. Flaws in >> the choice are overwhelmed by the positive emotions of aquisition at that stage. Only after >> the deal is done and the product is in use do the weaknesses in the >> decision become apparent. Think of the car you so wanted but later regretted buying or >> found was not really suited to your needs or budget. Frustration boredom disatisfaction can creep >> in and the purchase cycle begins again. Desire for the next purchase builds and so >> on...... >> Goes a long way to explaining why some manufacturers only give you a quick whizz around the block for a test drive. Those who believe in their product are happy to let you have it for a weekend or longer. |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 17:10
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Londoner
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>> The consumer is at his/her happiest during the "desire/need/anticipation" phase of the purchase. Flaws in >> the choice are overwhelmed by the positive emotions of aquisition at that stage. Only after >> the deal is done and the product is in use do the weaknesses in the >> decision become apparent. Think of the car you so wanted but later regretted buying or >> found was not really suited to your needs or budget. Frustration boredom disatisfaction can creep >> in and the purchase cycle begins again. Desire for the next purchase builds and so >> on...... >> I'm almost shaking with emotion as I type this . . .but that is the best post that I've ever read on ANY blog - because it hits home to me personally. (maybe I shouldn't admit it but I've even had to seek professional help - which got no-where) I've spent many, many hours trying to get inside my head about my car problems, and Humph has perfectly described their origin. Now I need a cure. Is is to more perfectly understand what I really, really want? If so, how? |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 17:41
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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My goodness how flattering, if rather undeserved :-) I can claim no knowledge of potential cures, though I have to admit to having been instrumental in the causes on numerous occasions ! Somewhat regrettably, I sometimes feel, that is I'm afraid, my job. All I could councel on a personal level is attempting at least to find a place in one's head where you cease to contextualise your life too much with that of others. An easy set of words which are more difficult to put into action but there is in my view a positive benefit to trying be one's own self rather than an idealised version of your own criteria of perfection. Acceptance of one's own weaknesses is the first step on the road to compensating for them and celebration and maximising of one's strengths is the edge which helps to ensure success. Self confidence and happiness comes from within. The human failing which parasites like me exploit on a daily basis is the belief that these emotions and mindsets can simply be bought. Of course the aquisition of a satisfactory purchase can bring short term pleasure but it rarely overcomes the underlying esteem issue which demanded it. The fundamental step in my humble opinion is getting to a point of realisation that "those who mind usually don't matter and those who matter usually don't mind" I forget who said that first but they were quite clever in my view. Anyway, I'll stop drivelling on now and indulge another platitude but one which is actually also quite good advice...." don't worry, be happy" ! |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 20:40
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Dog
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>>> "those who mind usually don't matter and those who matter usually don't mind" I forget who said that first but they were quite clever in my view <<< - - - - - -> Dr. Seuss My mother used to call me "old I want" and that has been the pattern of my life really, but don't think for one moment that I'm any salesman's dream, quite the reverse really. I have always known what I wanted, and gorn out and got it - even if (as you correctly say) I didn't really want it at all (or the gilt wore orf) I've owned over 40 cars and 8 properties so there is obviously a screw or 3 loose somewhere, but then I could have easily been a drug addict, alcoholic, gambler, sex addict ;) I don't ever regret buying all those cars and I've quite enjoyed most of them + cars were a part of my working life at one time. But I believe time has attenuated "old I want" because I'm more than happy with my 5 year old Almera ... until? |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 22:22
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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I don't suppose any of us should beat ourselves up too much for having normal human failings. Some would take the positive view that they are the very characteristics which define us. We are not yet robots despite the best efforts of our society to turn us into them. :-) We are all ultimately biddable given the appropriate stimuli. It's probably for the best. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 11:44
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Paul Robinson
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I agree - a most interesting thread. I think most of us under estimate the influence of 'the media' and how good the marketing men are. I think it was Henry Ford that said we can't have economic growth without the creation of wide spread dissatisfaction. The creation of dissatisfaction with what you have, is big factor in the psychology of selling, very easy to do with cars ..... |
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New Sat 27 Mar 10 22:53
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Avant
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What a fascinating thread. "The consumer is at his/her happiest during the "desire/need/anticipation" phase of the purchase." - that is so true. I get great enjoyment from the 'chase' of deciding on a new car - one almost feels flat when it's finally been ordered. But that's because I like cars - not everyone is the same. What's also interesting is the goods that 'psychology of purchasing' does and doesn't apply to. I suspect that the more one views a purchase as 'white goods' the less it applies. If your car is (whether or not you admit it) an extension of your personality, then it applies very much. In the fashion industry that Humph works in, I'd guess (correct me if I'm wrong) that it applies to more women than men. But some people regard a car as a tool to get from A to B, in which case they'll go for whatever they perceive to be most reliable. Neither SWMBO nor I would be emotionally involved next time we buy a dishwasher, washing machine or tumble-drier, but we'll buy Bosch as the ones we have are all Bosch and are all over twenty years old and never needed a repair. I'm not sure that the psychology applies to houses as much as to cars for many people. Perhaps that's because most of us can't remotely afford the house we'd like, and which we think would reflect our personality, but some of us can afford a car that comes nearer to that ideal. Last edited by: Avant on Sat 27 Mar 10 at 22:56
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 06:53
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Pat
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At the risk of being excommunicated from this forum forever, I'd like to put another aspect on this thread. When it was time to change the Mondeo because it didn't really fit the caravan we'd bought neither of us had a clue what we wanted. So we both made a list of 'must haves' When merged together we both had the same thing at the top of the list. 2 cup holders Aircon or climate control Space in the dash for stuff Roomy in the front 2000cc or above Heavier than the Mondeo. So we now have a CRV we both love simply because of 2 cup holders and a little fold away table. I still hesitate to contribute to some threads :) but a few days ago there was a thread about independent car dealers without a dealership and no workshop. Fifteen years ago I found myself without a man in my life and an old Carlton that needed changing badly. I was very nervous of buying a car with just my own knowledge but looked around the local garages. In my previous life before becomming a lorry driver I was in sales and hated the 'salesman' approach, so that ruled out most of them. I wandered around a piece of wasteground with a portakabin and a dozen secondhand cars for sale, very close to my home. The owner ambled over to see me and we started to chat, I told him my predicament and he assured me he hadn't got anything in that would suit me but I should trust him, and within 2 weeks he would have a car that would be reliable and he could sell me and know it wouldn't be a problem. I became the owner of a Mondeo, in girlie lilac ( it's only fault) with one previous owner and FSH and it was perfect. Since then every car I have bought has been bought from Pete. With the CRV we went and told him what was top of the list, how much we had to spend, settled on a price for the Mondeo and went away for about 6 weeks. We finally had a phone call asking if we'd be happy with him buying the one we have now for us and of course, we trust him. So for the last 15 yrs every car I've had has been bought without being seen or roadtested really, and I've never had a problem yet. Pat |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 07:26
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Netsur
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This is one of the most interesting threads ever! On a personal experience I was beginning to doubt the psychology of Humph for several years as I was deliriously happy with the Outback. But then the realisation hit me that we would need a bigger car. So I reverted to type and bought the car that ticked all the boxes on a practical as well as image level and I think I have come out worse than I should have done, although the family all love it, as passengers. So know I am back into the cycle of wondering (after two months) of what I would get if I replaced it......I haven't thought like that for over three years. Years ago there was a salesman at the Honda dealers in Rochdale. Between my father and I, we would change cars reasonably often and the first thing we did was to ring Ian and ask if there was anything interesting or good value out on the second hand car lot. We must have bought four or five cars from him in the space of four years. We were very happy with all of them despite barely driving them first. I once went in to buy a car for me, and walked out swapping my wife's Golf for a Mitsubishi Spacewagon. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 09:35
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - R.P.
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| Pat you can name the dealer here if you want. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 09:38
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Pat
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Thanks PU www.p-tmotors.co.uk/3916/ptmotors.htm He has now progressed to a bigger plot and a small workshop where it's easier to find. But I shall ring him this morning and suggest he makes his website easier to read:) Pat Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 28 Mar 10 at 09:42
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 12:42
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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Hopes, dreams and aspirations sell far better than solutions. If the potential buyer can be led to believe that purchasing your product will enhance their appearance, make them more attractive to the opposite sex or increase their status among their peers you have only to provide an accessible and adequate product to gain sales. A perfect solution, poorly marketed, will not sell in volume. Brand perception though is very vulnerable entity and has to be protected. We can all, with our interest in the motor trade think of brands and products which are truly excellent but which carry a negative reputation baggage from decades ago. Conversely we can also point to brands which still have a certain kudos but whose actual products are not quite up to the standards alleged and perceived. Human nature is such that one bad experience outweighs the good ones by a factor of ten to one. We have a natural pre-disposition to over-react to and even quietly revel in negative stimuli. Bad news is far more "interesting" than good. Just analyse what is included in national news broadcasts to confirm that theory. In the end though, the brand marketeer's job is to persuade the customer that by spending on his/her brand they will improve or enhance their lives more than if they spend their money on someone else's product or service. Despite our long term cultural exposure to these techniques and having felt let down after the event, we still fall for it, most of the time. And so the world turns........ Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sun 28 Mar 10 at 12:43
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 12:56
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - RattleandSmoke
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Lada UK knew how to sell dreams. Their brohures were full of exotic images of Paris or London and would feature a Lada parked outside a Gordon Ramsey type restaurant. The product they sold was because the cars so cheap by buying a Lada you can afford to do all the finer things in life. The realility of the later models is the owner would spent £500 just to get it through the first MOT as they could never pass the emisions. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 13:06
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Avant
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"Hopes, dreams and aspirations sell far better than solutions." They do indeed - but it's strange that this applies to cars more than to other goods. For some reason cars seem to be more an "extension to one's personality" more than white goods, men's clothes and even houses. Probably a subject for a PhD.... |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 13:18
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - -
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Interesting thread, there must be some of us still out there that positively recoil at the oh so obvious techniques of marketing, changing in some ways as product placement seems to be the new way, a seen on the telly with cars in particular. Sounds more like a conditioned brainwashed populace doing someones bidding than reasoned purchases by people who should be thoughtful enough to see through it, or is it the need to conform lest one is cast out by not having the brands deemed suitable by the crowd. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 13:43
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Dog
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Advertising is obviously aimed at Mr. & Mrs. Average Bear. I always research and read up on anything I'm planning to buy to whether its a new cordless toothbrush or a replacement vehicle so whatever Saatchi & Saatchi might say about a particular brand will have Zero effect upon my purchase but - my name isn't Yogi. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 13:54
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Bagpuss
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>> "Hopes dreams and aspirations sell far better than solutions." >> >> They do indeed - but it's strange that this applies to cars more than to >> other goods. For some reason cars seem to be more an "extension to one's personality" >> more than white goods men's clothes and even houses. I was at a seminar last week and one of the presentations related to offering a "customer experience" as the next innovative development of the service industry as this is more profitable than just offering a dull old service or, heaven forbid, a product. The case described was Starbucks, where the effective price of a cup of coffee goes from 10 Cents if you consider the beans, $1,50 for a cup at a cafe up to $3,50 for a cup at Starbucks. The message being Starbucks is able to charge higher prices by offering the same raw material as a "compelling customer experience". In practice the American presenter managed to bemuse the largely European audience who, whilst understanding the theory, struggled with the description of drinking overpriced coffee out of a paper cup with a green badge on the side as "compelling". I guess some people feel the same about BMWs. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 16:56
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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To answer Avant's question or discussion point above re "men's clothes and houses". It very much depends which sector of the market you are targetting. In particular the 17 -30 year old part of the men's apparel and footwear market is, and despite the recession remains, highly brand oriented. Ironically, when you burrow down into the demographics it is the lower income, less well educated young adult males who still fiercely support the fashion brands the most. Certain brands remain badges of office or street status within this subculture. Retailers targetting this consumer have ridden the downturn better than most. It is a misnomer to think of the premium branded clothing market as being driven from the top down in relation to income and demographics. It is in fact, and indeed long has been, driven from the bottom up. Premium apparel brands are far more successful in economically contrained locations than they are in areas of greater finanancial wealth and economic stability. The aquisition of hopes and dreams in the face of hopelessness perhaps. The desperate, quick fix way of achieving alpha-maleness within the context of their peer group. Young women are, contrary to poular belief, far less brand loyal and much more eclectic in their buying habits. In the face of recession they trade down. Their average number of purchases in fact changes little despite the vagaries of the economy but the average price paid falls dramatically in times of financial constraint. With regard to houses, of course your point is well made but even here we can see the influence of the dreamsellers. The clone-like faux wooden floors, the almost-leather sofas, the widescreen TV..............Ikea anyone ? To drag this all screaming back to our favourite discussion subject matter, we can I think, see some remarkable parallels to the above with cars. The mundane hatchbacks blinged to destruction on the direst council estates. Failing miserably but somehow charmingly to enhance the driver's status. The ubiquitous "pub landlord" with his sovereign ring and tidy old Jag. "Look at me world, I've got me own pub and I can afford to run a Jag so I'm doing alright....." Conversely, the landed gent with his battered Volvo or Subaru slightly disdainful of overt wealth displays..... A final thought before you all lose the will to live......Those who think they are above all this, and are truly independent spirits might consider this thought, the very best result for a marketeer is when the consumer has been so cleverly manipulated into buying your product that he/she thinks it was their own idea...... I'll go and have another cuppa now and let you all get back to cars ! Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sun 28 Mar 10 at 16:56
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 17:14
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - R.P.
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I guess some people feel the same about BMWs. I know plenty of people who have bought them for other reasons, because they are intoxicated by those glorious sixes, that they rather like the dynamics and more lately, especially as company cars they make a lot of sense because of their excellent diesels..... I have to confess I was hypnotised into buying the GS - I desired it and aspired to its ownership - When I first collected it I hated it - its height, its agricultural gearbox, its looks - it wobbled and shook - the blinkin' thing grew on me and I now love it more than any bike I've ever ridden - I am not alone in these feelings many GS owners have these emotions about their bikes. I love it so much I couldn't bear to sell it when I chopped the VFR in for the 1200RT - and I bought the RT because I wanted it rather than aspiring to it.......it's a lovely, lovely bike - The other bike I looked at was the VFR1200 but as the BMW undercut it with all the options by at least a grand it was a no-brainer especially as I knew I was getting a smoother version of the superb Boxer twin and a much improved gear change. Last edited by: Pugugly on Sun 28 Mar 10 at 17:24
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 17:25
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - -
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Forgetting clothing and other personal items and concentrating on cars, though they crossover as someone is always selling, if a vehicle sells in reasonable numbers someone will claim the credit politician like. It doesn't always mean we have been subconciously duped into the marketing departments dream world, it might just mean that a certain vehicle does what we want it to and represents fair value for money and is likely on that makers previous performance to have a long trouble free life. Quite insulting to be regarded as unable to make a reasoned choice unless some lifestyle guru deems said choice to be acceptable which may influence many but not all of us. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 17:40
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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No insults intended, GB My apologies if that is how it reads. It is disturbing and irritating though I do agree when you study the subject in depth. We are all to a greater or lesser extent biddable. Different personalities react to different levels and types of stimuli but the reality is that there is a measureable correllation between marketing effort, technique, budget and the resultant sales success of most branded products. Anyway, I've probably waffled on enough. Sorry if I've become annoying, I rather feared I would ! :-) |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 18:11
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Manatee
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Brand can be sensible factor in decision making, and that is its origin I think - when tea was commonly adulterated, buying Ty-phoo or whatever would assure the purchaser that they weren't being diddled or even poisoned. When it 'goes wrong' is when the product is the brand, at which point a counterfeit product can be acceptable if it has the right logo! For some purchases, brand can help me choose - as Humph says, it's hard to know whether I'm being totally rational, but when you buy upholstered furniture for example, how are you to know whether it has a sturdy hardwood frame or a few bits of chipboard and some rolled up cardboard inside? If I needed a washing machine I'd buy a Miele - the brand tells me it should last (10 years so far). On the other hand, I have just bought a dozen cotton tee shirts from Amazon at an average cost of £2, the price of one or two 'leading store' equivalents, and the fleece I wear most often when I'm out and about is a Tesco value one at £6 - I didn't need a brand to help me choose it. In marketing terms there are two dimensions to brands - the 'experience', and the 'image'. When Starbucks blether about the compelling experience they are of course bulling up the image - experience should speak for itself. Humph may be able to analyse me from my loyalty to Loake shoes - I like non-fashionable (not always the same as unfashionable) things, and I know which last numbers suit my plates. I don't think it's image thing, they don't put logos on them yet! I'm not sure how brand image conscious I am with cars - certainly brand experience is a factor. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 20:09
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Dog
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>>> Anyway, I've probably waffled on enough. Sorry if I've become annoying, I rather feared I would ! <<< No way Jose please do continue ... s'funny about the publican with he's jag and the landed gent tree with his volvo because in my 14 years of mobile engine tuner I got to take tea with both types and they did indeed suffer those very vehicles more often than not. You seem to have an aptitude for writing Herr D'bout, have you ever considered dipping a toe into the literary world ~ "...[W]riting means revealing onesself to excess .... This is why one can never be alone enough when one writes, why even night is not night enough. ... I have often thought that the best mode of life for me would be to sit in the innermost room of a spacious locked cellar with my writing things and a lamp. Food would be brought and always put down far away from my room, outside the cellar's outermost door. The walk to my food, in my dressing gown, through the vaulted cellars, would be my only exercise. I would then return to my table, eat slowly and with deliberation, then start writing again at once. And how I would write! From what depths I would drag it up!" [Franz Kafka] |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 18:54
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Westpig
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>> A final thought before you all lose the will to live......Those who think they are >> above all this and are truly independent spirits might consider this thought the very >>best result for a marketeer is when the consumer has been so cleverly manipulated >>into buying your product that he/she thinks it was their own idea...... I've often wondered about that...i'd be pretty miffed if I ever found out i'd fallen for it...in theory it's quite probable...but luckily for me hasn't happened with my cars. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 19:32
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Old Navy
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>>...i'd be pretty miffed if I ever found out i'd fallen >> for it...in theory it's quite probable...but luckily for me hasn't happened with my cars. >> Or with mine. How is your Ceed SW, WP? Mine is a week old and I have no problems, it is smooth and quiet, light controls, but the engine is tight and I expect it will be for some time yet. |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 20:34
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Runfer D'Hills
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Kafka is setting the bar a bit high for me I fear ! I'll stick with a quote from Paul Simon.... "Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" I'm off now for a bit before I inadvertantly raise any more hackles.......... :-) Last edited by: Humph D'bout on Sun 28 Mar 10 at 20:35
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 20:54
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Londoner
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>> "Still a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest" As he goes off humming the Politicians theme song. . . . . "lie, lie, lie lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie,lie, lie, lieeeeeeeeeeeeeee" |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 20:58
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Dog
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>>>"lie, lie, lie <<< Nice one Londoner :-D |
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New Sun 28 Mar 10 21:03
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - -
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>> Nice one Londoner :-D many too true a word in jest, never more so than the last 20odd years. |
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New Mon 29 Mar 10 12:56
Brands - Perception and values real or imagined. - Woodster
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| I dissembled the shower head the other day, cleaned all the limescale off and left a note for wife that told her what I'd done and that it should now offer 'an unrivalled cleansing experience' . What a load of insulting piffle is the vast bulk of advertising. Back to cars then..bought the Golf because it was offered on the cheap from a well off friend. I'll likely change for A Skoda because I've been suckered into the hype that there are VW bits in there. Like a 170 CR TDi in the Octy vRS. Apparently the same engine as in the new Golf GTD. Which you can pay a tidy few thousand pounds extra for, and get a smaller boot. I suppose all I'm really doing is showing my allegiance to the VAG group then. I've been caught, haven't I? |
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