Last night I had some idiot in front of me reverse into my car. He slowed and stopped to let some pedestrians cross the road, and then for unknown reasons (at the time) decided to put his car into reverse and crash into my front bumper. I sounded the horn and flashed the lights to let him know I was behind him. Fortunately he stopped and got out but at first was reluctant to exchange details. His excuse for reversing was to give the pedestrians more room!!! Anyway, he said there was no damage done, but I don't know how he could see that as his rear bumper was still kissing my front bumper and it was dark apart from some dim streetlights. Someone from security at the nightclub just across the road wandered over and said she saw the whole thing and would be a witness if necessary. The guy was still reluctant to give me his details. Next thing I know 2 policemen arrived on foot (the lady from the nightclub summoned them) and asked what the matter was. They did a PNC check of his car to make sure he was insured, etc. Also they told him to give me his details so they could get the queuing traffic moving again and unblock the road as no one was injured.
I eventually got his name, insurer and a mobile number. The mob number I later discovered is only 10 digits long, not 11, thus not allowing me to phone him.
I've looked at my car in daylight and the paintwork is cracked in a few places where he crashed into it. It's cosmetic and if I had caused the damage myself then I would accept I've been an idiot and not bother about it. As someone else has caused the damage though I would like to have it put right.
The estimate for the damage is £200 + vat.
Now here's the dilemma. Although the accident wasn't my fault I've been told that by contacting my insurer could well increase my premium come renewal time. Is this the case? Fortunately I have a witness so he cannot say that I drove into the back of him. Also I have the shoulder number of one of the officers who ran the PNC.
A friend of mine had his car wrote off by someone else 3 or 4 years ago and by declaring it always increases the premium when he shops round for car insurance. Using online quote forms, if he doesn't declare it he gets one price, but declaring it raises the premium he has to pay.
So, do I contact my insurer (Tesco) or not?
Do I just accept the damage, and try not to get annoyed every time I look at the front bumper and see the crack in the paintwork?
A N Other?
Apart from one or scuff marks on the alloy wheels, the paint and bodywork on my 06 Vectra is unmarked.
EDIT - to include photo. There is another crack further down out of camera shot as well
img822.imageshack.us/i/photoapf.jpg
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 26 May 11 at 13:29
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You could try contacting his insurer, assuming you have the correct details, make it clear that there was a witness and that the facts speak for themselves. Ask them to sort it out, failing which you will pass to a claims management company either directly or through your own insurer. For the sake of £200 they might well settle.
There might be more than meets the eye though, by the sound of it?
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You have to inform your insurer of any accident whether you claim or not dont you? Or has that changed?
I have got quotes with and without a no fault claim and it made no difference to my premium.
Try getting an online quote, satisfy your paranoia with the reality from the insurer without informing them.
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You have to report it, Its part of the small print of your policy, regardless of blame or circumstances.
Yes your premium will go up next year because you are now classed as a higher risk.
you should be able to keep your no claims bonus tho if you work at this one.,
Last edited by: Zero on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 20:46
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>> Yes your premium will go up next year because you are now classed as a higher risk.
That's what I am afraid of. Even though I wasn't to blame, I still get penalised by the looks of it.
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My son had his bike stolen outside the train station one day, I phoned up the insurance company to see if I was covered, to be told I wasnt. So I made no claim,
Come renewal time the premium went up "because I had reported an incident"
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Your going to need to work at this one. Get witness statements, details of the coppers who attended, pictures, good description, hassle his insurance company.
Be careful he could claim you ran into him, I mean who believes that someone reverses into you?
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>> who believes that someone reverses into you?
A neighbour had a milk float (!) reverse into her Fiesta in a cul-de-sac a couple of years ago. Quite a lot of damage to the front of the Fiesta actually, more than you'd have thought possible in the circumstances. Insurance provided a courtesy car while the Ford was being repaired with no quibbles.
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 21:48
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>> That's what I am afraid of. Even though I wasn't to blame, I still get
>> penalised by the looks of it.
>>
No you don't. You get an estimate from your insurance company of how much extra it is going to cost you over the next 5 years at today's market/prices, and then get the third party to par for your that part of your damages claim.
Search HJ's forum to find out how to include that future cost in your claim.
Last edited by: John H on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 21:51
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I had some one reverse into me when driving in Denmark about 20 years ago, they were waiting to pull out, stuck the nose out too far and decided to reverse albeit a bit too far. They fortunately admitted liability, there were no witnesses, we exchanged details and my legal protection policy sorted out the uninsured losses.
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>> my legal protection policy sorted out the uninsured losses.
Ah, I forgot I got that as well when I bought my insurance policy.
I also forgot that I've just joined a legal advice scheme that the RAC are doing for £20 a year that covers for things like legal costs & expenses following a RTA that wasn't my fault. Will have to put it to the test and give them a call when I get up in the morning.
Thanks also for other people's suggestions as well so far.
I do want the cracked paintwork repaired, but only if it's not going to affect future insurance premiums.
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You just need to advise your insurer you have had a no fault accident (you also fill in a form to send to them with all details and witnesses ,photos etc)
then ring the legal protection number for them to sort out your loss
it takes a fair while to get your excess payment back even when everything is sorted but you will and i personally have not had my insurance go up due to no fault claims (trade policy i accept) so maybe those that do are with wrong type insurers
Can i just reiterate that many years ago on the pages of the saturday telegraph hj extolled the virtues of having a camera about your vehicle well i used this on both occasions to prove my accidents were non fault and the other side always backed down
The other thing is legal insurance its a £10 think of it as your umbrella in a rainstorm (you wished you had it when you needed it)
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I wish you well VXfan. I too was hit whilst stationary ! but insurance company insisted on 50/50. Its been a pain in the butt since as my premium went up ! and everytime I wish to add or aler anything on my insuarnce I have to go through all my accident details again and again !!!!!! aaahhhhhhhh its so anoying.
I now have in-car cameras fitted in all my cars as i dont wish to get caught out by an insurance company again !
I was stationary at the side of the road when a car coming in the opposite ditrection doing 40+ lost control and went down the side of my car. So dead simple but not as far as the insurance company saw it !I'm still really angry 2 years later
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>> I do want the cracked paintwork repaired, but only if it's not going to affect
>> future insurance premiums.
>>
I would not dismiss the idea of contacting his insurer. It worked well for me recently, when my car was damaged in a car park - though that was uncontested by the other party. Her insurer, Sheila's Wheels, asked if I was happy for them to arrange repairs, and whether I would be happy with a small courtesy car or would I need a larger car,in which case they would get Europcar to deliver one.
They knew full well that if an accident management company got involved, a £500 claim could turn into thousands.
The fly in your ointment of course if that he appears to be wriggling.
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Phoned the RAC legal team today - about as much use as a chocolate fireguard IMHO. Maybe weekend staff aren't up to the same standard as weekday staff?
I think I'll speak to my witness again to confirm that she is still happy to provide evidence to my insurer if necessary before I ring them. If the driver of the car says that I drove into the back of him, then it could open up a whole can of worms. snip - self moderated to removed some info about the car being driven by the other driver.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 26 May 11 at 13:32
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Is it really true that people who have been the innocent victim of someone else's behaviour once are in greater risk of the same thing happening again, and therefore deserve a higher insurance premium?
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>> Is it really true that people who have been the innocent victim of someone else's
>> behaviour once are in greater risk of the same thing happening again, and therefore deserve
>> a higher insurance premium?
Well,it was night, outside a night club (with bouncers), and 2 police were nearby. Sounds like a lifestyle associated with increased risk to me.
Maybe the OP was making a quick exit after making a street deal :)
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Fair point. But the concept of "asking for it" is of questionable acceptability in other cases.
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See it in this way.
The cost of repair is ~ £220.
If you report it to your insurer, your premium might go up next year. Will it go up beyond £200? Very unlikely as it was not your fault. In fact unless you are involved in multiple non-faults claims, your premium is very unlikely to go up.
You are legally bound to inform your insurer though.
You can choose not to inform either your or 3rd party's insurance. That means paying out of your pocket. Don't think that is what you are looking for :-)
Don't know about car insurance, but for house insurance, I was allowed to withdraw a claim as I found cost of repair will almost equal my excess. After withdrawal of the claim, insurer revised and reduced my renewal quote.
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>> I think I'll speak to my witness again ....
Haven't spoke to her but left a message on her answerphone. I missed her return call but she left a message saying that she is still ok to act as a witness.
I also phoned the bar right next to the road where the accident happened to ask whether their CCTV only covered their property and the immediate pavement area outside or if it also viewed the road as well.
Great news, it also covers the road and had a return call back from them saying that although the CCTV is black and white, they have one camera showing my car stationary and another camera shot showing the car in front of me reversing back into my car. The guy I spoke to has archived the CCTV footage so it can used if necessary by my insurer to prove the driver was to blame if he tries to deny it.
Have phoned my insurance with all the details and they are going ahead with a non fault claim and to seek liability from the other driver. They were quite pushy in wanting me to use one of their approved garages for the repair of the bumper, but both garages are some 30+ miles away at either Cirencester or Cheltnam.
I declined their offer. I've chosen a local and trusted body repair shop that I've previously used. My local Vauxhall garage uses them too. To put it simply, I don't trust my car in the hands of a someone to take it all the way to one of their approved bodyshops when I can just drop it off myself to a local one that I've been happy to use in the past. ok, if something goes wrong with the repair or I'm not happy with it then it's down to me to sort it out, and not my insurer who would give a 5yr guarantee on work carried out by one of their approved repairers.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 26 May 11 at 13:33
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When someone bashed into my car on a roundabout, his insurer paid the lot. 'Cos it hadn't cost my insurer, it didn't cost anything extra at renewal time. Cost is the measurement.
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When Farmer Giles reversed into the CC3 in Halford's car park, I took some money off him and left it at that.
I made an instant character assessment that the guy was straightforward, which turned out to be the case.
I left the scene with some of his folding money, but the job could have messed up had he done an about turn and made a claim on my insurance.
The damage to my car was just under £100, so involving insurance companies seemed daft.
But were there any doubts, or the damage was much more, I would have gone through the insurance.
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Contact Tesco. I've no doubt your policy will require you to inform them of the accident even if you don't make a claim. However, you've really no way of knowing whether informing them will increase your premium at your next renewal. Premiums go up for a multitude of reasons ~ inflation, a general increase in repair costs, a change in the basis for calculating premiums etc etc.
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>> Contact Tesco.
Have done - mentioned it yesterday ;)
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Just to update on this.
Driver has claimed I drove into him, so it's still in dispute with my insurer to as who was at fault. Having CCTV and a witness statement will hopefully help to prove I wasn't at fault.
My renewal has come through. Gone up £49 since last year to £369.
Some, if not all of that is because I got a 10% new customer online discount with Tesco.
I've just opened up a can of worms however, as the new policy doesn't mention about the accident. Gave Tesco a call and it has increased the premium from £369 to £426. The guy I spoke to was quite sympathic, and offered to see if there was anyway to reduce the premium. In the end he got it down to £392, and offered a £20 loyalty discount voucher, which brings the renewal payment to £372, making it £3 dearer than the original quote.
The additional loading can be claimed back once proof of blame is sorted out, which *should* reduce the price again.
Previously Tesco car insurance was underwritten by RBS, but now it's underwritten by Tesco Bank. Seems a lack of communication between them somewhere along the line even though it's still 'Tesco' which is why the accident wasn't listed on my renewal documents.
I can't really discuss much about the dispute with the other driver at the moment as there are one or two other things that might affect the outcome over a separate matter that the police are looking into regarding him and a motoring offence.
Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 26 May 11 at 13:19
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Update.
Well some 6 months on I've finally had my car repaired.
You'd have thought having CCTV evidence and a witness statement in my favour would have speeded things up, but not when the third party claimed that I drove into the back of him, and then subsequently he ignored any further correspondence from his insurer.
Initially the CCTV couldn't be used as it didn't show him clearly enough, or the number plate of his car. My insurer said that he could argue it wasn't him, and that he wasn’t there and there wasn’t enough proof to show otherwise. However, having lied to his insurer by saying that I had driven into the back of him, the CCTV could be used as he admitted being at the scene of the accident.
Also my witness had been in hospital between me having the accident and my insurer sending her a form to fill out.
There was still quite a delay though, mainly as I said earlier that he ignored all correspondence from his insurer after his initial claim that I’d driven into him. After his insurer had sent 3 separate letters to him, which he ignored, his insurer finally admitted a “without prejudice acceptance of blame” on his behalf because of the CCTV and witness statement in my favour. Just as well as my insurance company were about to put it into the hands of their solicitors to deal with.
The CCTV was an eye opener when I saw it though. It showed he wasn’t actually the driver of the car. The CCTV showed him getting out of the passenger door of the car, followed moments later by the driver who clambered over the front seats to also exit the car by the same door.
Great, I thought, have I been hit by an uninsured driver? But having mentioned this to my insurance company, they said if he wants to tell his insurer he was driving then that was up to him. As far as my insurance company were concerned, his car was insured and they could make a claim against that. The car is the thing that’s insured, not the person.
I also informed the police about what I’d discovered on the CCTV as I was beginning to think that the actual driver might not have had a licence or insurance to drive his car, which is why he claimed he was driving. They interviewed him and as with his insurer, he said he was driving and that I’d driven into his car, but when mentioned there was CCTV evidence to suggest otherwise, he suddenly changed his mind and admitted being the passenger. Unfortunately he then used the good old British law of using his right to remain silent when asked who the driver actually was. All he said was that she was his girlfriend (no name given), she wasn’t a UK citizen, but was temporarily living in London while in the UK (he didn’t know the address, or didn’t want to give the address) but she did have insurance to drive his car – he didn’t know the name of the insurer though!!
The police said they would refer the matter to the crown prosecution service, but it would be unlikely they would do anything due to costs involved trying to trace her. They have to weigh up how much public money it would cost to pursue it against getting a conviction. It was also unlikely that anything would happen to him either as he admitted the offence.
At the end of the day the police got an admission from him that his car struck mine and not the other way around, which would also help my insurance claim, should I have needed it. Fortunately the CCTV and witness statement was enough – eventually.
Just waiting now for my insurance company to amend my policy so that there is a “not at fault” comment on it in the “accidents in the last 3 years” column, and for my premium to be reduced.
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Good news indeed, but it's been a long winded and worrying time.
What's really annoying is that the other geezer cost you, the insurers, the police and ultimately all of us who pay for it time effort and money and all for nothing, if he'd just been honest, or even dishonest in the first place by admitting fault to his own insurer this would have been put to bed and forgotten in weeks, and he'd have had a slightly increased premium, which he's got anyway but now is a known liar, which won't do his future insurance prospects any good, idiot.
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>> Good news indeed, but it's been a long winded and worrying time.
Thanks GB. You can say that again. Some might question why I bothered, but having had my car damaged by someone else, I wasn't going to let them get away with it.
Another thing I wasn't aware of (and forgot to mention it above) is that an insurer is allowed up to 90 days before they need to respond back to another insurer.
As per most things these days, it's the innocent people who end up having the most aggravation.
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>I also informed the police about what I’d discovered on the CCTV as I was beginning to think >that the actual driver might not have had a licence or insurance to drive his car,
That was very very silly indeed, you could well have cocked everything right up and ended up claiming in person in court against an uninsured driver, and you would have got zilch or 15 quid a week over zumpteen years.
he claimed he was driving, he was insured, you should have left it at that. You are very lucky indeed.
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>> That was very very silly indeed
Not so.
Yes, granted I did think about it, but what if my insurer asked me, "look, we've viewed the CCTV and it shows he wasn't actually driving, have you reported this to the police?". "Er, no", or words to that effect could have been my reply. "Why not?" they reply back, "have you got something to hide?"
I didn't want any comeback on myself, and unlike him, I told the truth throughout.
But, as I said earlier, it didn't matter who was driving his car from an insurance point of view. The car had insurance on it, and therefore they claimed on that. The owner of the car gave the other person permission to drive his car, he was with them at the time, and therefore he was liable.
Honesty is sometimes the best answer.
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they wouldnt ask that, its not your place to do that, its not your place to interpret the video evidence,. Its their job
I maintain you were stupid and got lucky, just as i said he would claim you hit him.
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>> I maintain you were stupid and got lucky
Luck didn't come into it. When you insure a car, you're not actually insuring yourself, you're insuring everyone else around you in the event that if you damage someone else's property, either directly or indirectly then the insurance will rectify the damaged caused. You're actually the last person to be considered. Had his car been damaged and his insurer found out he wasn't driving, then he wouldn't have been able to make a claim to have it put right but they have a duty to compensate anyone else. Both the police officer who interviewed him and my insurer confirmed this. Before I submitted the CCTV I made sure I wasn't opening up a can of worms.
Look at it another way, if his car was parked on a slope, the handbrake failed and it careered into my car, then I could make a claim on his insurance for damages. He wasn't in the car at the time, but I can still make a claim against him. That is why a car has to be insured when it is on a public highway, even if it's not being used.
Ultimately we'll have to agree to differ.
Look on the bright side though, if she wasn't insured, didn't have a licence, etc, then that's hopefully one less person on the road who is unable to run into someone else and cause them grief.
As he was so shifty and nervous when the police turned up at the scene of the accident, and also lied to the police later on while being interviewed, it's highly likely she wasn't legally entitled to drive.
>> as i said he would claim you hit him
It was inevitable, and had I not had proof otherwise then it would have gone in his favour as it would have seemed he'd stopped and I ran into the back of him. That was why it was so crucial for me to have the CCTV evidence as well as the witness statement. Having had a non fault accident several years ago, it took so long to resolve that my witness pulled out and I ended up being out of pocket. I wasn't going to let it happen again, which is why I made sure I had as much evidence as I could get my hands on.
I would love to post the CCTV footage, but as it's not mine, then data protection rules ok.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 19 Oct 11 at 01:48
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>> >> I maintain you were stupid and got lucky
>>
>> Luck didn't come into it. When you insure a car, you're not actually insuring yourself,
>> you're insuring everyone else around you in the event that if you damage someone else's
>> property, either directly or indirectly then the insurance will rectify the damaged caused. You're actually
>> the last person to be considered.
Actually your wrong. You are not insuring the car, you are insuring the combination of car and driver.,
Technically he was not insured when he allowed his GF to illegally drive the car, and you could have been in for a heap of agro. You may not like it and may not think it but you were lucky you didnt screw it up.
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Zero, you obviously know something that both my insurer and police don't.
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>> I've been told that by contacting my insurer could well increase my premium come renewal time. Is this the case?
Yes most likely it will*. Any non fault accident also pushes up premium (I discovered it recently which I mentioned in another thread few weeks back).
Even if you do not contact your own insurer, any claim (whether insurance shells out money to anyone or not) is usually recorded among insurers' shared database and pushes the premium up.
* = your premium may well go up even if you don't claim because insurers will simply distribute the cost to all customers.
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Many years ago, 1972, I was hit in the rear when I stopped at a zebra crossing. My car - 18 months old - was severely damaged, and the miscreant's car's engine dropped out. No police around and my car was taken away. The other driver didn't give me his insurer's details at the time. When I 'phoned him the following day he refused to divulge them. The Police didn't want to know.
Briefly, and against all advice, I sued him. Eventually, the matter was dealt with at St Helen's County Court, and the whole thing was settled in my favour, and I was also awarded damages. I understand his insurance company was not best pleased with him.
Last edited by: Robbie34 on Wed 19 Oct 11 at 10:11
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>> Yes most likely it will*. Any non fault accident also pushes up premium
As mentioned further up this thread, it went up by £3 (after Tesco applied some discounts). Once all the paperwork between the insurers has been sorted I've been assured I'll recieve some money back for it being a non fault accident.
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Suggest at this point you contact the police again. You don't accidentally give out a ten digit phone number and the fact he was cagey about giving details suggests he's got something to hide.
Also recommend NOT telling him you have CCTV footage of him reversing into his car. That way you can get the swine for lying too, as I bet you £20 he'll say you drove into him.
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FF,
The police know all about his lies. They know he gave me an inccorect phone number, incorrect spelling of his surname, and that I had supposed to have driven into the back of him.
He's been questioned about it all, confessed he wasn't the driver, and that his car rolled back into mine.
I later found out he went to the bar where I obtained the CCTV and asked for a copy. They wouldn't let him have it because of data protection. The only reason I obtained a copy was that my insurance company wouldn't let the bar owner have my insurance details (because of data protection) and asked him to send me a copy so that I could post it off to them. They asked me to make a back up copy first in case it got lost in the post. I confirmed with the bar that it was ok to give the police a copy of the CCTV. I'm not sure if the police showed him the CCTV footage, but as he went to the bar afterwards to ask for a copy, I suspect they didn't, but would have done if had he kept up the pretence he'd done nothing wrong.
Last edited by: VxFan on Wed 19 Oct 11 at 10:54
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As VxFan says, third party risks are still covered when an insured car is driven by a driver who is not on the policy.
So in this case, VxFan's damage is covered by the other insurer, but they will not cover damage to the insured vehicle.
Seems to me even a no-fault accident costs you in one way or another - time, increased premiums, general aggro.
VxFan has done very well to navigate himself through this situation to get the result he has.
The Motor Insurers' Bureau runs a scheme to compensate drivers hit by an uninsured driver or vehicle.
I don't know how easy it is to get a claim paid, but it's another avenue to look at if you find yourself in that unhappy position.
www.mib.org.uk/Frequently+Asked+Questions/en/Default.htm
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D'oh. Will read the whole thread next time!
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>> Although the accident wasn't my fault I've been told that by contacting my insurer could well increase my premium come renewal time. Is this the case?
To answer my own question, yes and no.
Yes, until proven I wasn't at fault.
Now it's been proven it wasn't my fault, and has gone down as a non fault claim on my policy, I've just received a £51.19 refund from Tesco.
My renewal was originally £372, but take away the amount that's just been credited back to me, and that makes my renewal £320.81.
The same as it was in 2010.
Not bad seeing as the original quote (before taking into account the accident claim) was £369.
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Non fault accident - insurance dilemma? - Manatee
