A friend is over this evening with a rather nice 60 reg, 2.2 CDTi example of the car. Her and SWMBO have gone out for a few drinkies (she's stopping over), and we noticed on the way out that the car was parked rather inconsiderately for one of our neighbours, so I suggested she might want to move it. They were in a rush, so she flipped me the keys and asked if I wouldn't mind doing it.
Has anyone here ever driven one of these things, and how the hell is the rear visibility considered remotely acceptable? You simply cannot see anything meaningful out of the rear screen. To park it in a tight-ish spot, I have had to reverse it up with the door open and my head hanging out. What a complete joke.
I always liked these cars. But this would drive me completely nuts.
Cool dashboard, mind.
Last edited by: DP on Fri 25 Mar 11 at 21:37
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The rear view mirror is cosmetic. Seriously.
I couldn't get an accurate distance to the car behind from the door mirrors. Admittedly, unfamiliarity played a part, and not wanting to damage a good friend's shiny new car, but when you notice something within seconds of getting in a car, it's never a good sign.
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Can't imagine how van drivers get on:)
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I must be getting old. :-)
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Agree entirely with DP. Van and lorry drivers know their restrictions on visibility, anfd the vast majority drive accordingly, using mirrors or (with vans) opening the door to see out while reversing.
But car drivers should expect to be able to see properly out of the back. The Civic is a particularly bad case, with a 3/4 blind spot and a silly, unnecessary spoiler severely reducing visibility out of the rear window - and no wash/wipe.
I suppose this kowtowing to the stylist is all in the name of making it look 'cool'. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder but to my eye at least, the Civic looks nothing special at the rear.
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>> I suppose this kowtowing to the stylist is all in the name of making it
>> look 'cool'.
>>
Exactly!
That and the cliche that gets trotted out at nearly every new car launch about "wanting to appeal to a younger audience"
Yeah, right! All those younger people who don't have the money for new cars.
(and to clarify the spirit in which I say that, let me add that I feel sorry for those same younger people)
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Rear visibility or rather lack of it doesn't bother me at all...
IF the car has proper rectangular mirrors mounted far enough out to allow the full side of the car to be seen, hopefully including the rear wheels.
Many door mirrors seem to be part of the styling excercise, often huge plastic casings with a tiny make up size piece of glass tapering to a narrow at the outside wedge...arguably the most important section of the mirror, as this part *should* give the best view of the ground/rear wheel area.
If you think the Civic's bad, try an Insignia.
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>> If you think the Civic's bad, try an Insignia.
And if you think the Insignia's bad, try an Alfa Brera.
Zero visibility through the back window, tiny internal rear view mirror and tiny door mirrors which can't see past the bulging flanks. That, and the huge B-Pillar restricting over the shoulder vision, make pulling into the overtaking lane on the autobahn very interesting.
Parking it was a total nightmare, it has the turning circle of an oil tanker and the pedal positioning mase it difficult to simultaneously reverse and hang out of the driver's door. It was like Alfa had gone out of their way to make this car as difficult to manoeuvre as possible.
Gorgeous looking car mind, but one for exhibiting rather than driving.
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>> Parking it was a total nightmare, it has the turning circle of an oil tanker
>> and the pedal positioning mase it difficult to simultaneously reverse and hang out of the
>> driver's door.
The reverse antics you decribe make me shudder, i thought the first Audi TT was bad enough with it's arrow slit drivers window...like sitting in a coffin.
I hope the Brera had an automated manual box too..just to add a bit of a challenge to the manoeuvre..;)
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>> I hope the Brera had an automated manual box too..just to add a bit of a challenge to the manoeuvre..;)
LOL.
No, but it did have a turbo diesel engine with specially programmed "all-or-nothing" torque delivery.
The original TT was pretty bad for reversing. I personally don't like its post box sized side windows. I was once trapped in a car after a smash so don't feel comfortable in any car where I don't think I could climb out of the side window in an emergency. Very irrational.
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>> Yeah, right! All those younger people who don't have the money for new cars.
It doesn't stop them buying late shape cars, probably most on finance, and the insurance in big monthly instalments. When I was a teenybopper, my first car was about ten years old, and I was lucky if it was going to start in the morning. On one hand, they're lucky in that the modern car is so reliable now, but I wouldn't want to be paying those insurance premiums, they are mind blowing.
I've noticed that the Civic's radical shape hasn't put all older people off, but in the transition from the previous shape to this, they seem to have taken a dive in build quality and reliability. And you're right, that rear screen is pretty bad - why they put a spoiler in the middle of it is anyones guess.
I think idle chatterer had one - and got fed up of it.
Last edited by: corax on Sat 26 Mar 11 at 11:22
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It still looks good and sharp tho. Thought it would age badly, It hasnt. It was the first Honda for ages that didn't look like an invalid carriage.
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>> It still looks good and sharp tho.
>>
Not so sure, I said when it was new that it was styled by Steve Jobs and it has aged like an iMac.
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>> But car drivers should expect to be able to see properly out of the back.
>>
If you can't reverse any car without hanging out of the door you can't drive.
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Disabled drivers cant hang out of the car door?
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>>If you can't reverse any car without hanging out of the door you can't drive.
I think the problem is, many drivers have not been behind the wheel of vehicles where it is absolutely necessary to rely on your mirrors to reverse.
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What happened to the ability to park by touch?
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>> If you can't reverse any car without hanging out of the door you can't drive.
Please enlighten me.
If the rear window is too small to see out of and the extremities of the car are not visible in any of the mirrors, how does one reverse a car that is not fitted with parking sensors? Wait for the sound of crunching metal? Telepathy?
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I've driven a few hundred mixed miles in a Civic.
Going backwards is hard work, as DP describes.
Going forwards wasn't really a problem.
I didn't feel rearward visibility was compromised when glancing in the rear view mirror on the motorway, and the view via the door mirrors is as good as any other hatchback.
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I've no doubt that younger members don't realise that at one time superb visibility, both rearwards and sideways, was normal. When I had my 1967 Hillman Hunter I used to park it, in reverse, against a 3 foot high internally curved wall. I could regularly do it in one go and end up with about an inch clearance between the wall and the end of both the front and rear bumpers. I never once hit the wall. I'm not bragging, but just explaining how good visibility was. Since those days visibility in all cars has got steadily worse. Why this is I just don't know.
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>> Since those days
>> visibility in all cars has got steadily worse. Why this is I just don't know.
It's all to do with aerodynamics (fuel efficiency)and crash safety. Making cars more aerodynamic is going to mean the windscreens are more raked, the body is more sleek, with the result that you can't see the corners. For crash safety and more roll over protection, the roof pillars are much thicker, hence they are harder to see around, creating blind spots. I read that Saab 9-3's had strengthened windscreen pillars to guard against elks in Sweden - these were taken off their spindly legs and the full body went through the windscreen decapitating the unlucky inhabitants.
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>> I read that Saab 9-3's had strengthened windscreen pillars to guard against elks in
>> Sweden - these were taken off their spindly legs and the full body went through
>> the windscreen decapitating the unlucky inhabitants.
>>
Was that an elk and safety issue?
Err...I've got my coat on already...I'll see my own way out.
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I've never driven the new Civic so can't comment on that model.
A few weeks ago i drove an Alfa Giulietta, rear view was OK, mirrors were brilliant.
Biggest issue for me was the A pillars.
Some modern cars require a few moments in the drivers seat to get familiar with the surroundings. No digs at people here but I wonder how many people get in a car and just drive off and try to do this on the fly.
The Alfa mirrors were better than my Volvo for rear view.
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SWMBO had a 2.2CTDi Sport a few years back, within the first week of ownership we booked it in to have the Honda (dealer fit) parking sensors added.
The CTDi engine was fabulous, the ride was terrible and the rear visibility a joke, mirrors were good though, the only positive thing I can say about the rear wing which bisects the window is that you rarely need to dip the rear view mirror when being tailgated at night....
The interior space was excellent and the boot was enormous but the thing proved pretty unreliable (a shock for a Honda) with many suspension and trim faults plus a couple of recalls.
The novelty of the shape wore off (we always loved it though) and we couldn't live with the unreliability and compromised ride / visibility any more so SWMBO changed it 'early' for a Golf VI, the experiment in Honda ownership 'failed'.... Residuals were good though.
Sad really, such a brave design but poor execution.
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Had a CR-Z hybrid on test last week. Terrible visibility on the rear quarters due to the slab-sided design. ALSO that stupid rear window design, with a bar RIGHT ACROSS the line-of-sight from the rearview - a la the Prius.
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I really like the design of the Civic. The offending car mentioned above is in black, with a nice set of wheels on it, and it looks sharp and modern to my eyes. I like the dash too, which looks futuristic, but stops short of being gimmicky or confusing. Everything feels typically Honda - well put together, with light, easy controls, and like it will last a long time.
I've driven the 2.2 CDTi engine in an Accord and liked that a lot. I would imagine it punts the lighter Civic along very well. And the car is reported to handle pretty well.
So, a good looking car with a cracking engine, (probably) a decent chassis and a cool interior.....that you can't see out the back of.
To paraphrase Clarkson, it's like dating a supermodel who's a great cook, intelligent, a stimulating conversationalist, amazing in bed, witty and kind, but has a habit of chewing your leg off when you're sleeping every night.... ;-) It would kind of put you off.
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>> .. ;-) It would kind of put you off.
I didn't feel it handled that well to be honest, it was 'skittish' over anything but smooth tarmac (and the UK doesn't have much of that these days IIRC), the ride was nothing short of awful, ours had 17" wheels, was very stylish but soon developed trim rattles due to the aforementioned stiff-legged ride and general cheapness of the materials used. That the front dampers needed changing, the driveshaft needed replacing and the rear anti-rollbar bushings changing in 2.5 years and (ahem) 11K miles should tell you how poor this setup is, it wasn't exactly rallied either.... It always felt flimsy somehow, the Golf VI which replaced it (or the Focus I which preceded it) showed just how much better an independently sprung car is. It looked great though and the 2.2 CTDi was very quick and regularly returned 50mpg. I think the expression is "a curate's egg - good in parts" ?
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Mon 28 Mar 11 at 10:19
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Wonder what the Civic sales figures are like - Honda really disenfranchised their traditional customers with the current one. Maybe that was the idea?
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I've driven a few modern hatchbacks.
The Civic has comfortably the worst ride of all of them.
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>> I've driven a few modern hatchbacks.
>>
>> The Civic has comfortably the worst ride of all of them.
>>
"comfortably the worst ride", is that possible?
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..."comfortably the worst ride"...
It was an attempt at a pun.
But, as ever, some fall on stony ground.
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Honda Civic UK - rear visibility - are they having a laugh? - Old Navy
