Motoring Discussion > Why are smokers the way they are?	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Mike Hannon	Replies: 123

Tue 22 Mar 11 16:17   Why are smokers the way they are? - Mike Hannon

After congratulating ourselves that the Prelude had been parked in the streets for a week in the UK without mishap (unlike on some previous occasions) we came out of our hotel near Le Mans into its private car park on the way home to find someone had stubbed out a fag on the bonnet. I sometimes got fag ends under my visor when I was a biker and last summer we narrowly avoided a fire when someone threw a fag end from a car onto our tinder-dry grassland. Why do they feel rules of civilised behaviour don't apply to them? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 16:20   Why are smokers the way they are? - FotheringtonTomas

"They" don't. "Some of them" do. The same as any other subset of the population. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Tue 22 Mar 11 16:36   Why are smokers the way they are? - hobby

That's true, FT, but that minority don't half give the rest a bad name... Which is why most of us non-smokers have very little sympathy when smokers have a moan about the restrictions on them these days... If they'd put their house in order the draconian measures we now have wouldn't have been needed... The daft part was that most of it was common sense... don't litter, be careful where the fag ash goes and take into account others when you light up, especially in pubs and restaurants! Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 22 Mar 11 16:48   Why are smokers the way they are? - AnotherJohnH

I think you may as well ask why somebody would "key" a car. Isn't a fag end just a different weapon? Or is this something different I've been lucky enough to escape, so far? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 16:58   Why are smokers the way they are? - FotheringtonTomas

>> I think you may as well ask why somebody would "key" a car. That's odd, exactly the same thought had occurred to me. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:08   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

Its exactly the same has having an empty can of Red Bull lobbed out of a truck window so that it bounces off the road and hits the windscreen in such a way you can read the sell by date. Happened to me today on the A1 northbound. As I passed he was driving with his elbows rolling a fag. Last edited by: Zero on Tue 22 Mar 11 at 17:08 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:12   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

>>As I passed he was driving with his elbows rolling a fag. << Now there's a dying art:) Pat Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:16   Why are smokers the way they are? - Old Navy

Four minutes, I guessed at about 30 seconds, Keep up Pat. :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:46   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

Sorry, I didn't live up to my reputation:) I must do better. Only proper lorry drivers can drive with their elbows while rolling a fag. The true skill comes with boiling the kettle on the camping gaz stove, placed on the engine cover, while doing it. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:18   Why are smokers the way they are? - Fenlander

Met an eight wheeler being driven hard through a twisty country bit the other morning... steering by elbows as he texted . Had the wheel slipped we were on the outside of his curve and that would have been self and girls wiped out. Idiot. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 06:25   Why are smokers the way they are? - MD

>> Met an eight wheeler being driven hard through a twisty country bit the other morning... >> steering by elbows as he texted . Had the wheel slipped we were on the >> outside of his curve and that would have been self and girls wiped out. Idiot. >> Why is it that 90% of tipper drivers are idiots? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 07:33   Why are smokers the way they are? - Fenlander

>>>Why is it that 90% of tipper drivers are idiots? Don't know but... Every day I have to cross or wait at a full barrier rail crossing over the London main line 4 times. Yesterday was at the front my side and two cars faced me stopped their side. Another eight wheeler, with grab this time, drove up at speed behind these cars to the point where every last bit of his braking was needed to stop. Any problem with his responses or brakes and he'd have shunted the cars onto the track. Idiot no. 2. I await this morning's idiot with interest. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 10:27   Why are smokers the way they are? - Ted

>> >>>Why is it that 90% of tipper drivers are idiots? >> >> I await this morning's idiot with inte This morning's eejit. I was on the bike following two 8 leggers...same owner, 30mph residential main road. It was obvious the rear one was playing ' keepy uppy ' with the other. I saw the situation before it happened. No.1 went round a right hander, still at speed and had to slam on for the Pelican Crossing. tinyurl.com/4d8nd6p NO.2 wasn't paying attention, swerved to his left, mounted the grass verge and pavement and ploughed through the fencing into the playground of the primary school. He just missed the lamp-post in front of the Jag ! I waited around until the law arrived and gave them a witness statement. Armco now fitted, seen on Streetview. Might not stop a 20 tonner, though. Ted >> Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 11:29   Why are smokers the way they are? - bathtub tom

>>>>>Why is it that 90% of tipper drivers are idiots? Perhaps it's because they're associated with the building trade (Martin can't reach me from there ;>). There's an extension being built opposite me. A new skip was delivered, so what do they do with the rubbish? They've created a pile next to the skip and leant the larger items up against the outside of it! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 13:14   Why are smokers the way they are? - Clk Sec

>> They've created a pile next to the skip and leant >> the larger items up against the outside of it! Some builders have a knack of getting a quart into a pint pot when it comes to filling a skip, but it takes a bit of planning. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:24   Why are smokers the way they are? - Perky Penguin

Rolling a fag is alive and well in our expensive schools. Half the Cabinet would know about it! Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:25   Why are smokers the way they are? - Clk Sec

>> >>As I passed he was driving Was it a commer? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:58   Why are smokers the way they are? - commerdriver

>> Was it a commer? >> Oi! All Commers whether lorries or not are cherished vehicles and driven with the utmost care Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:30   Why are smokers the way they are? - FotheringtonTomas

None o' they silly machines to make 'em. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 20:19   Why are smokers the way they are? - bathtub tom

>> >>As I passed he was driving with his elbows rolling a fag. << >> >> Now there's a dying art:) The dying art's being able to roll it with one hand. ;>) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 20:21   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

The dying art is re-lighting it, when there is only 1.6mm left, and not burn your lips. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 20:25   Why are smokers the way they are? - Runfer D'Hills

There's something comforting about the smell of Old Holborn. Never smoked it myself but it evokes memories of a less censured time. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 20:32   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

Drum is the weed of choice now I understand, a distinctive aroma, one immediately thinks "bought black market from Belgium" The Dutch are great "Drum" roller-uppers. I never knew the difference between red and blue Rizla fag papers tho. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 22:38   Why are smokers the way they are? - Harleyman

>> There's something comforting about the smell of Old Holborn. Never smoked it myself but it >> evokes memories of a less censured time. >> Not for me it doesn't! Back in my Army days I was a naughty boy and ended up in the "glasshouse" for 28 days; £1.12 a week "pocket money" bought half an ounce of OH, two packets of Rizlas and a box of Swan, with a few pence left over for non-essentials like boot polish and razor blades. ;-) Never smoked Old Holborn since! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 06:16   Why are smokers the way they are? - Cliff Pope

>> >> >>>> >> The dying art's being able to roll it with one hand. ;>) >> I remember once watching in fascination as a man standing on a crowded tube train rolled a cigarette with one hand. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 18:00   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

>>>Its exactly the same has having an empty can of Red Bull lobbed out of a truck window so that it bounces off the road and hits the windscreen in such a way you can read the sell by date. Happened to me today on the A1 northbound. <<< Was it a Clapham bus driver doing a bit of moonlighting who recognised the lancer? Pat Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 22 Mar 11 18:31   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

>> Was it a Clapham bus driver doing a bit of moonlighting who recognised the lancer? >> >> Pat OOOOOOOOoooooo, So many answer to that one, most of them would be classed as racist. As it happens, it wasn't aimed at me (I doubt he was that skilful), just "lobbed in general" onto the 2nd lane concrete. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 17:17   Why are smokers the way they are? - L'escargot

>> Why do they feel rules of civilised behaviour don't apply to them? >> Standards of morality have fallen. The standard changes in lengthy time cycles, and I don't expect to see a significant improvement in my lifetime. Reply to this message | Report message       3

Tue 22 Mar 11 18:02   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

In his understandable annoyance, MH has tarred all smokers with the brush of the vandal toerag who stubbed a cigarette out on his car. I imagine very few smokers would have done that. It smacks of deliberate malice in which envy is probably a factor. But when something like that happens it's upsetting. It feels personal even though it can't be really. Perhaps though there isn't any real damage. Car paint after all is quite resistant stuff. Life is difficult for tobacco addicts these days. If your car smells of tobacco apparently you want to poison everyone's nippers, yea, and even to their unborn children and their children's children. Of course the smell of tobacco, and even a thick fug of tobacco smoke, does no one any harm that isn't going to be done anyway by other pollutants or just by being pathetic, ignorant, uptight and stupid. Germs and filth are good for you especially in childhood. Rabid anti-smoking wonks: please don't bother to post links to scientific studies allegedly proving something or other. It will only bore people. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Tue 22 Mar 11 18:16   Why are smokers the way they are? - Robin O'Reliant

Nicely put, AC. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 23:51   Why are smokers the way they are? - Ted

I'm gasping for a modest cigar now, Lud. I've not indulged for about 5 years but recently have been looking lasciviously at the Cafe Cremes in the Post Office and jinglimg my pocket cash........Oh for a 50 box or ten of those rough Belgian cheroots at about 8 Euros a box ! The pipe still gets an exercising now and again, down the workshop. I may well succumb soon....life's too short ! Ted Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 13:19   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> The pipe still gets an exercising now and again, down the workshop. >> I may well succumb soon....life's too short ! Heh heh... Ted, you're a Mensch. Am I failing in my duty by not reminding you that life may be even shorter if you do succumb? Not really. For one thing life may not be shorter but longer. For another, you are an adult and have heard all that already. Tanzania is a main source of meerschaum. When I was there I got my old man, who smoked a pipe, a couple of meerschaum jobs including a big Sherlock Holmes type one with a bit of cowhorn on the outside. He didn't use them much though. He had one of those modern jobs with a screw-in briar bowl and an aluminium stem. Can't really get on with pipes myself. Too much messing around for me although others seem to like it. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 18:34   Why are smokers the way they are? - Old Navy

>> Rabid anti-smoking wonks: >> Are they similar to Rabid nicotine addicts? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 18:49   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

Yes - Very. Not at all like us "not really bothered one way or the other, strong willed enough to give it up" types. Have pity for the "want to give up but too weak willed to make it work, let me buy just one more pack" types tho. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 18:58   Why are smokers the way they are? - Old Navy

Yes, wimps with no staying power, once you have cracked the first ten years off the weed it is no longer a problem. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 19:15   Why are smokers the way they are? - Skoda

I read one of those brain washing books to give up (Alan Carr, Easy Way To Give Up Smoking), i accept the connotations of being easily led enough for one of those books to work but when i gave up it was 0 effort and no will power required (just as well!). I'd happily recommend giving it a whirl to anyone. There surely can't be an easier way in existence - it changes your mindset so not smoking becomes a freedom, it's pretty ace that way. Also means you can freely mingle with smokers without worrying about being tempted, you know you'll never touch one again theres no doubt at all in your mind. It's enjoyable to be free on day 1 and it's a non event consigned to history by day 3. None of those daft patches (irritate the skin), gums (sore throat), lozenges (OMG has anyone anywhere in the history of mankind actually managed to finish one! Killer sore mouth), inhilator (the fact you can do it anywhere goes against it - you loose the sense of occassion) and what not i tried most products over the course of a couple of years. I'd recommend the book to anyone. Only reason i read it was because i sat down and asked myself how all my successful quitter friends had done it - all the long term successful ones were that £5 book. Unfortunately it doesn't work for everyone, i know a few people who didn't quit with it. I was ultra sceptical when i started reading it, reluctant even - i don't like the idea of being daft / weak enough to be brain washed. Surprised it worked was an understatement. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 19:23   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

No comment from fag ash Humphey (yet) :) Re: the OP ... is your car UK reg I wonder. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 19:34   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> Are they similar to Rabid nicotine addicts? There is a similarity, in that both are liable to get hot under the collar over a matter of piffling ultimate importance. But there's a difference too: people who smoke on the whole are aware that their habit is unhealthy and anti-social. Anti-smoking wonks are unaware that their self-righteous aggressiveness is just as noxious as smoking if not more so. Of course I don't mean here polite individuals who suffer from asthma or who have had the iron self-control to give up smoking. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Tue 22 Mar 11 at 19:36 Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 23 Mar 11 08:30   Why are smokers the way they are? - IJWS14

You chose to do it - you live, or die as a results. One close member of the family died from smoking, one is about to . . . Neither was ever interested in the risks they were taking. I never have, but will support your right to do so as long as it does not affect me, and I do love the smell of Old Holborn - you just ruin it by smoking it. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Tue 22 Mar 11 19:40   Why are smokers the way they are? - Harleyman

>> Why do they feel rules of civilised behaviour don't apply to them? >> Whilst not in any way defending the smoker's reprehensible action, it could just as easily have been a piece of chewing-gum, a habit I find as singularly revolting as you do smoking. I'll just roll meself a cigarette now....... ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 19:47   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

>> I'll just roll meself a cigarette now....... ;-) With your elbows on the TV remote I hope? Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 21:11   Why are smokers the way they are? - hobby

If AC's replies had been a little less hostile to non-smokers I could have sympathised... as it is he comes across as the "wonk"... Whatever that is... BTW AC, I don't need to refer to any scientific research to know how bad secondhand smoke was for me, I had first hand experience when I was a kid and my Dad smoked... Luckily he realised just how much it affected my breathing and quit. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 22:01   Why are smokers the way they are? - Londoner

"Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I know because I've done it thousands of times." — Mark Twain Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 23:25   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> If AC's replies had been a little less hostile to non-smokers Actually hobby I didn't say a single word about non-smokers. How can anyone have anything against a non-smoker? No, the real problem here is people who can't read. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 09:01   Why are smokers the way they are? - hobby

>> Actually hobby I didn't say a single word about non-smokers... >> >> Anti-smoking wonks are unaware that their self-righteous aggressiveness is just as noxious as smoking if not more so. An anti smoker is, by definition a non-smoker, just more forthright in their expression of their views... So the way I read your earlier post, AC, you did... Perhaps you should be a little clearer next time! ;-) Last edited by: hobby on Wed 23 Mar 11 at 09:01 Reply to this message | Report message       2

Wed 23 Mar 11 11:46   Why are smokers the way they are? - Robin O'Reliant

>> >> An anti smoker is, by definition a non-smoker, just more forthright in their expression of >> their views... So the way I read your earlier post, AC, you did... Perhaps you >> should be a little clearer next time! ;-) >> An anti-smoker and a non-smoker are not one in the same. A non-smoker is merely one of those who don't smoke, whereas an anti-smoker...don't get me started :-( Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 12:49   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> An anti smoker is, by definition a non-smoker, Not so, but a bit complicated for you to understand why. (I see that Robin Regal does though). Perhaps you should learn to read hobby. What I wrote couldn't have been clearer. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Wed 23 Mar 11 at 12:51 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 15:06   Why are smokers the way they are? - hobby

I can read, there was no need for that, but I don't agree with your interpretation, which seems to me to be just twisting the words to suit yourself... An anti-smoker is also a non-smoker. So my interpretation of your words is, as far as I'm concerned, correct, you may be trying to twist things to suit yourself, but that's the way I see it... End of story as far as I'm concerned. Reply to this message | Report message       3

Wed 23 Mar 11 15:12   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> my interpretation of your words 'Interpretation' seems to be your problem then. No interpretation was needed, hobby. Words have meanings and those meanings are clear to people who don't 'interpret'. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 15:34   Why are smokers the way they are? - hobby

Sorry, AC, as far as I'm concerned in the context you used them the two were one and the same... You obviously don't agree, that is your right, just as its mine to read it the way I did and still do. As I said before that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned, if you wish to continue you can, but don't expect a response from me or any change in my reading of your original post! ;-) Last edited by: hobby on Wed 23 Mar 11 at 15:35 Reply to this message | Report message       2

Wed 23 Mar 11 15:35   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

>> but don't expect a response from me You said that last time ;) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 16:06   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> You said that last time ;) Heh heh. It's a waste of effort trying to communicate with some people. They insist on an inaccurate 'interpretation' of crystal clear statements and then, on the basis of their dodgy reading, have the damn cheek to accuse other people of 'trying to twist words to suit themselves'. You simply can't talk to people like that for long. Perhaps that's what they want really. Must make life difficult for them sometimes though, if they carry the habit through to matters of genuine importance. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 23:31   Why are smokers the way they are? - John H

>> as it is he comes across as the "wonk"... >> Nah, it is just grandiosity - nothing more, nothing less. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 23 Mar 11 09:03   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

When we used to live "up country", we'd orften go out for a meal in a nice boozer like this one ~ pubs.com/main_site/pub_details.php?pub_id=145 Well, it was nice then. My brother would always roll a fag straight after the meal and my sister would always give him an ear bashing (quite rightly!) Although I was on the fags then as well, I would never consider blowing fumes over other people - until they had finished their meal, anyway. I was giving the nickname Dog btw, by my first (proper) girlfriend Launa when I was 15, she had shortened it from the original Dog-end :-D Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 09:36   Why are smokers the way they are? - Old Navy

Are smokers / dog carriers cars worth much less than cars with a clean interior at sale or trade in? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 12:15   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

You can get the smell and hair out of a dog carrier car. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 12:26   Why are smokers the way they are? - Alanovich

I am a "rabid anti-smoking wonk", however I prefer to buy ex-smokers' cars second hand. It's the only way of removing the revolting smell of plastic that envelops all modern cars these days. I absolutely hate that "new car" smell, and it seems to manage to linger for years in non-smokers' cars. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 14:13   Why are smokers the way they are? - Mike Hannon

Light slap accepted, AC. I don't have anything in general against smokers - some of my best friends, etc - and I was annoyed. As ever, it's the minority that do the damage. And it did polish out. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 14:35   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

No slap intended in your case, Mike. Glad it polished out though. I hoped it would. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 15:45   Why are smokers the way they are? - Mike Hannon

Years ago I bought an Accord from a friend of mine - low mileage, well looked after, etc - but every single time that car was in the sun, or got really warm inside, I could still smell his labrador. My son solved the problem by writing it off (the car, not the dog). Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 16:36   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> grandiosity John H, you are my very favourite admirer. Did I tell you who I sold my last gaff to before retiring to a Gandhi-like dotage in the forest? Common little German woman, Greek husband (bit of a spiv), large and troublesome family of chavs? It was somewhere between the West End and Belgravia but I forget where exactly. Still suing them for the money actually. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 17:06   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

>> >> grandiosity >> >> John H, you are my very favourite admirer. Oh dear, that sounds awfully sinister. Rather like you are grooming him. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 17:11   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

Just egging him on a bit. 'Good heavens my pretty dear, but that's exactly the way I myself have been feeling for years, without being able to put it into words! Perhaps we are soulmates, born for each other! I wouldn't want to rush you of course, I can see you're blushing. But think what a team we'll make! What's your mobile number?' etc., etc. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 20:15   Why are smokers the way they are? - John H

>> Just egging him on a bit. >> I don't think you meet any of the eight criteria listed in the top half of this page: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiosity Or do you think you do? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 23:31   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

Only two or three of them really H, sometimes, up to a point. I don't really think I'm grand. But one wouldn't post here just to make serious little points, would one? There's a duty to amuse. Tell me, are you a psychology student or just a Wikypedia user? Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 17:40   Why are smokers the way they are? - L'escargot

I notice that some smokers are defacing/damaging the top surface of litter bins by stubbing their cigarette out on it. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 18:02   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

The option of course is to throw the lighted end in the bin. The resulting fire should really screw the bin up. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 18:06   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

Of course we could just remove all the litter bins and make everyone (not just smokers) responsible for taking their own rubbish home. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Mar 11 19:50   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

>> Of course we could just remove all the litter bins and make everyone (not just >> smokers) responsible for taking their own rubbish home. >> >> Pat Or we could come round to March on a bin day and dump it in your recycling bin and get you into bigger trouble? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 07:17   Why are smokers the way they are? - hobby

I'll put this on here as it seems as good a place as any... I have decided that I will no longer take part in this forum, it seems to me that if you don't agree with certain members either with your views or interpretation of posts all you get is grief and thats not what my spare time is for. Those people know who they are and at times seem proud of themselves for doing it, which is very sad. I wish the rest of you well and should be grateful if the Admin/Mods could remove me from the list of members as I do not wish to be associated with the forum in any way in the future. Reply to this message | Report message       4

Thu 24 Mar 11 08:12   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

I'm sad to hear that Hobby, but know how you feel. I have at times felt the same way but out of sheer cussedness, I'll never let anyone like that win. Neither should you. Stay and make your point, sadly those who agree with you when this happens, usually prefer to stay out of it, but you're not actually alone in what you think. Now, I'm a long time smoker and I want you to stay, so that must say something:) Pat Reply to this message | Report message       3

Thu 24 Mar 11 08:36   Why are smokers the way they are? - Cliff Pope

I think it's a bit insulting to question someone's combustionary orientation, and patronising and insensitive to refer to smokers as "the way they are" or to promote some kind of cure for their condition. I'm straight pyromaniac, and played with matches when I began to develop combustionarily, and then started going out with bonfires as soon as I got the chance. But that's just my own taste nasally. Cigarette users are into oral smoke, and that's normal too. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 08:58   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

Blame nutty Walt ~ www.youtube.com/watch?v=p1KbtLrBZ0k&feature=related Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 09:20   Why are smokers the way they are? - Cliff Pope

Yes, I'd got that sketch in mind. I love the "so then you set fire to it" line. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 09:23   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

That sketch *always* makes me laugh! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 09:42   Why are smokers the way they are? - Fenlander

>>>I'll never let anyone like that win. Anyone *like that*... what on earth is that supposed to mean? Hobby fails to realise by posting 5 times in the thread to push his view he was holding just as firm a line as his perceived opponent. No-one has exclusive right to a point of view on here... far better to walk away after a couple of posts if it's getting heated not keep plugging on to maintain the argument. It's not real life... just a forum! >>>Nutty Walt. That's a blast from the past. F senior had an LP with that on when I was a kid. Not heard it for about 45yrs and completely forgotten Bob Newhart. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Thu 24 Mar 11 09:46   Why are smokers the way they are? - Robin O'Reliant

>> >>>I'll never let anyone like that win. >> >> Anyone *like that*... what on earth is that supposed to mean? Hobby fails to realise >> by posting 5 times in the thread to push his view he was holding just >> as firm a line as his perceived opponent. No-one has exclusive right to a point >> of view on here... far better to walk away after a couple of posts if >> it's getting heated not keep plugging on to maintain the argument. It's not real life... >> just a forum! >> Some people do seem to think that no-one has any right to disagree publicly with them. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 24 Mar 11 10:33   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

>>>>>I'll never let anyone like that win. Oh dear Fenlander, I seem to have upset you somehow, you simply can't wait to criticise. If you had read my post a little more carefully you would have realised I was replying to this... >> it seems to me that if you don't agree with certain members either with your views or interpretation of posts all you get is grief << The phrase 'I'll never let anyone like that win' was simply an agreement of what you're saying here >>No-one has exclusive right to a point of view on here.<< But I will add that simply by having to justify what I've written makes it far simpler not to bother to comment at all, which is the choice I make more and more these days. I actually think what you've posted is a perfect example of what Hobby is saying! Pat Last edited by: pda on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 10:34 Reply to this message | Report message       2

Thu 24 Mar 11 10:45   Why are smokers the way they are? - John H

>> But I will add that simply by having to justify what I've written makes it >> far simpler not to bother to comment at all, which is the choice I make >> more and more these days. >> I agree that it is difficult, unless you are one of the retired folk with time on your hands, to compose responses that do justice to what one might want to say - as in a pub where you are relaxed and have the time. Here, I find I have just a few minutes grabbed in between other tasks at various times of the day/night, and I make short sharp points - getting straight to the heart of the matter as I see it and cut out all the niceties, etc. Unfortunately, some people of a sensitive nature can't handle it and I try to avoid replying to those people who I think are not "man" enough to take the pain that the power of words can inflict. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 10:48   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

Now that's done me good John H:) Presumably I'm man enough then, I shall have a big grin on my face all day! Pat Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 24 Mar 11 10:57   Why are smokers the way they are? - John H

>> Now that's done me good John H:) >> >> Presumably I'm man enough then, I shall have a big grin on my face all >> day! >> >> Pat >> Good, I had you in mind when when I wrote man as "man". I knew you could take that. I wonder what word the equality brigade have devised in place of that. Be a Man - www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qtrAMK7_Qk Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 10:53   Why are smokers the way they are? - Focusless

>> the heart of the matter as I see it and cut out all the niceties, It should be possible to do that without being rude/unpleasant though IMO (that's a general comment, not aimed at anyone in particular). Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 11:02   Why are smokers the way they are? - John H

>> >> the heart of the matter as I see it and cut out all the >> niceties, >> OK, I was wrong. I don't cut out all the niceties all of the time. Sometimes, very seldom though, one or two of them slip in. ;-) >> It should be possible to do that without being rude/unpleasant though IMO Yes, it should be possible. I must try harder. :-0 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 11:11   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

It could sometimes be down to what a Psychologist would term transferal, i.e. someone has had a bad day for whatever reason and takes it out on you/me. Like me with Mr Z's blimmin dog food - I had a bad day, what with the house conveyancing and a nagging toothache, so, someone had to suffer :) The Sun set, has risen this morning - life goes on! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 11:00   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

It annoys me to agree with John H who often tries hard, in fleeting moments snatched from what he assures us is a busy life, to get up my nose and sometimes (let it be whispered) almost succeeds. But I think he's right. I wanted to make hobby think harder and be more accurate. I certainly didn't want to upset him or hurt his feelings. It would have been wiser to ignore him. Then he wouldn't have flounced and I wouldn't be feeling guilty. Whatever people may think, it's ludicrous to suggest I or anyone else doesn't think others 'have the right' to disagree publicly with our effusions (for that is what they often are). Without disagreement discussion would soon falter. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 11:03 Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 24 Mar 11 11:05   Why are smokers the way they are? - John H

>> It annoys me to agree with John H who often tries hard, in fleeting moments >> A sycophantic forum would be dull. >> Whatever people may think, it's ludicrous to suggest I or anyone else doesn't think others >> 'have the right' to disagree publicly with our effusions (for that is what they often >> are). Without disagreement discussion would soon falter. >> Oh no, I agree with you. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 11:08   Why are smokers the way they are? - Fenlander

>>>Oh dear Fenlander, I seem to have upset you somehow, you simply can't wait to criticise. No never upset here... it's not real life. I just hold up the mirror and you see what you see. No big deal. Last edited by: Fenlander on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 11:09 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 17:08   Why are smokers the way they are? - Clk Sec

>>I'm sad to hear that Hobby, but know how you feel. What a shame; we have lost another polite and inoffensive forum member. Last edited by: Clk Sec on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 17:10 Reply to this message | Report message       2

Thu 24 Mar 11 17:15   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

He could be as forthright as the rest of us on his day. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Mar 11 17:21   Why are smokers the way they are? - Pat

Yes Zero, he could but (and I include myself in this) we could all do with moderating the way we put our point across at times. It seems that the more we get to know each other the worse we behave. Maybe I should ask myself if I would say that if I sat face to face with them before I type it? Pat Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 24 Mar 11 17:23   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

agreed. Its called familiarity. Sometimes its justified, sometimes its not. At the end of the day, we DONT know one another. Last edited by: Zero on Thu 24 Mar 11 at 17:24 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 04:15   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> we DONT know one another. And there lies the problem in this case. Did hobby leave because someone behaved badly towards him? I don't think so. I think he banged his head against his own wrongness in an argument until he hurt himself. But the argument was utterly trivial - what they call a no-brainer - and the other end was held up by me, even after I had recognised that hobby was getting upset and simply couldn't face the trivial and simple fact at issue. It wasn't worth it and I shouldn't have done it. But one gets sucked into these things in a childish way. So although I don't think I was unpleasant to hobby or said anything wounding that he didn't richly deserve, I feel badly about this business for what that's worth. I wish it hadn't happened. I will miss hobby. No doubt others here feel I am much more to blame than that. But I'm not fragile enough to really worry about it. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Fri 25 Mar 11 07:31   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

>>But the argument was utterly trivial<< Exactly. You know words like I know cars Sire - a wordsmith of the 1st magnitude, but - those words can be *almost* as lethal as weapons, in the right hands, I've noticed, (very clever!) But at the end of the day, these are just words on a screen and one shouldn't get too upset by them, as Hobby clearly did, unfortunately. It was a new day yesterday, it's an old day now. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 09:08   Why are smokers the way they are? - Clk Sec

I don't think that it is too difficult to work out who is likely to be (easily) offended and who is not, once you have spent some time on a forum such as this. We are, after all, hoping to appeal to new members. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 10:08   Why are smokers the way they are? - Robin O'Reliant

If you want to take part in a debate - whatever the subject may be - you have to be a little robust and prepared to accept that those with an opposing view will feel just as strongly as yourself. I think Hobby's flounce was for the weakest reason I have seen on any forum, the fight wasn't even a decent handbag punch up. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 10:28   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

He is still logging onto the Forum tho! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 16:44   Why are smokers the way they are? - Armel Coussine

>> He is still logging onto the Forum tho! How do you know Zero? This is a genuine question. I don't see a 'Who's lurking?' button anywhere on the site. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 17:12   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

If you click on the poster name in any post, it will tell you when they last logged on. As it happens, in this case I was wrong. He has not logged on since yesterday. I blame my mistake on old age and indolence. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 20:14   Why are smokers the way they are? - bathtub tom

>>If you click on the poster name in any post, it will tell you when they last logged on. Are you sure? I thought it showed when they last posted. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 20:28   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

Yes I am sure For example for bathtub tom it says "Last *visited* the forum Fri 25 Mar 2011" Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 22:55   Why are smokers the way they are? - bathtub tom

Oh yes, I see you're correct. I'm only a young novice here. ;>) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 10:28   Why are smokers the way they are? - swiss tony

>> If you want to take part in a debate - whatever the subject may be >> - you have to be a little robust and prepared to accept that those with >> an opposing view will feel just as strongly as yourself. >> >> I think Hobby's flounce was for the weakest reason I have seen on any forum, >> the fight wasn't even a decent handbag punch up. >> I agree. I started by laughing that he couldn't see the difference between non- and anti- smokers. I have known smokers who were anti- but couldn't give up.... Addictions are hard to beat for some people. IMHO if you don't agree with other peoples opinions, then you should also allow them not to agree with yours. As I have gone through life, I have discovered that opinions are just that - something created by one's own experiences, a viewpoint that although you 'know' to be correct, may be - and often will be, at odds to another person's view, because they have had different experiences, bringing them to a position. Thus, rather than running away, it is in many ways, better to try and understand why the other person holds those views, and hopefully learn by them. This can strengthen, or weaken your own opinions - either case can make you a better person. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 13:35   Why are smokers the way they are? - FotheringtonTomas

>> I think Hobby's flounce was for the weakest reason I have seen on any forum This sort of comment is most unhelpful. The reason is quite possibly a build-up of feeling about the whining and bitching that goes on, rather than a specific instance. Last edited by: VxFan on Mon 28 Mar 11 at 21:11 Reply to this message | Report message       1

Fri 25 Mar 11 14:33   Swear Filter? - Duncan

> the whining and b****ing that >> May I ask an honest question? Thank You. I have been puzzled by the activity of the swear filter of late. The quotation above is a classic example. Does the swear filter object to the letters i t c h? That is about the only word I can think of that fits. What's wrong with that word? Innocent forum user seeking clarification. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 14:48   Swear Filter? - John H

>> Innocent forum user seeking clarification. >> Honestjohn did not like the word for "female dog", and so had it banned from use on his bespoke forum software. Last edited by: John H on Fri 25 Mar 11 at 14:49 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 18:02   Swear Filter? - VxFan

>> Does the swear filter object to the letters i t c h? It objects to the word bitch, not itch. In the wrong context it is offensive. Unfortunately the filter cannot differentiate between when it's used as an offensive word or when used to someone having a moan about something (eg, bitching) Similarly, it cannot differentiate between the Football team Arsenal and when talking about someones backside. I of course can override the swearfilter. Last edited by: VxFan on Fri 25 Mar 11 at 18:03 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 19:29   Swear Filter? - FotheringtonTomas

>> I of course can override the swearfilter. Oh! Mr. Lah-di-dah moderator VxFan! (with apologies to Windsor Davies) Reply to this message | Report message       4

Fri 25 Mar 11 19:37   Swear Filter? - Dog

>>it cannot differentiate between the Football team a***nal and when talking about someones backside<< So is ar$e actually a swear word? The reason I ask is because a chap on bbc radio cornwall uses it quite orften and I told him he can say ass but not a***, but he disagreed with me. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 19:47   Swear Filter? - Armel Coussine

Of course he was right Perro. Ass is an Americanism. In the fifties I was at school in Plymouth. A classmate whose father was a farmer on Dartmoor - the father had an Austin A70 I seem to remember, a grey one, they must have been much richer than us - spoke very broad Devon by my standards and pronounced the word in such a way that it sounded like 'Aaaass'. I teasingly demurred one day and pronounced the word correctly. He gave what I still consider a brilliant reply: 'Well, maybe you got an 'orse but oi got an aaaass same as everybody else.' I remember him with affection to this day. Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Fri 25 Mar 11 at 19:50 Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 20:08   Swear Filter? - Dog

>>'Well, maybe you got an 'orse but oi got an aaaass same as everybody else.'<< Brilliant! ... t'would be the same in Caaarnwall :) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 19:46   Swear Filter? - Robin O'Reliant

>> Similarly, it cannot differentiate between the Football team a***nal and when talking about someones backside. >> >> I'm glad I don't support Sc*nthorpe. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Mar 11 00:02   Swear Filter? - VxFan

>> I'm glad I don't support Sc*nthorpe. Scunthorpe is one of the few words I've managed to make the swearfilter ignore. Note, I didn't need to edit the post to get around the filter. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 22:17   Swear Filter? - Harleyman

>> Similarly, it cannot differentiate between the Football team a***nal and when talking about someones backside. There's a difference? ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 23:53   Swear Filter? - Londoner

a***nal? Aren't they the only English team that did not make it to the quarter finals of the Champions League this season? The Mighty Spurs, led by the genius 'Arry, did make it though! I wonder if they will make history by being the first team to win the Champions League in their home city? Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Mar 11 11:04   Swear Filter? - Robin O'Reliant

I wonder if >> they will make history by being the first team to win the Champions League in >> their home city? >> No. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 15:23   Why are smokers the way they are? - Ted

>> but - those words can be *almost* as lethal as weapons, in the right hands, >> I've noticed, (very clever!) .....and each man kills the thing he loves, by all let this be heard. The brave man does it with a sword, the coward.....with a word ! Dear Oscar. Ted Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 15:26   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

I wish I had said that! Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Mar 11 18:13   Why are smokers the way they are? - Londoner

>> I wish I had said that! >> You will, Dog, you will. Reply to this message | Report message

Sat 26 Mar 11 13:01   Why are smokers the way they are? - L'escargot

>> I'll put this on here as it seems as good a place as any... >> >> I have decided that I will no longer take part in this forum, it seems >> to me that if you don't agree with certain members either with your views or >> interpretation of posts all you get is grief and thats not what my spare time >> is for. hobby, ...... At one time a certain member used to irritate me intensely. It then came to me that he was a complete stranger and that all I had to do was ignore him. Occasionally I have a relapse and let him get my goat. My aim is to ignore him completely and for evermore. Try it yourself. Reply to this message | Report message       2

Sat 26 Mar 11 13:05   Why are smokers the way they are? - Zero

By mentioning me, sorry him, it means you haven't forgotten me, I mean him. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 31 Mar 11 12:35   Why are smokers the way they are? - Cliff Pope

>> By mentioning me, sorry him, it means you haven't forgotten me, I mean him. >> I'm Spartacus! Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 31 Mar 11 10:21   Why are smokers the way they are? - Perky Penguin

Perhaps you need a policy of zero tolerance? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 31 Mar 11 10:59   Why are smokers the way they are? - Dog

>>Perhaps you need a policy of zero tolerance?<< Perhaps WE need a policy of Zero tolerance :+) Reply to this message | Report message       2

Thu 31 Mar 11 13:57   Why are smokers the way they are? - Londoner

Or perhaps Zero needs a policy of tolerance. :-) Reply to this message | Report message