Motoring Discussion > Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: tyro	Replies: 46

Mon 21 Mar 11 15:28   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - tyro

I decided that I would change a wheel on my new Berlingo, just for practice, and selected the rear wheel on the driver's side. I jacked the car up, and then, using the equipment provided by Citroen, set about removing the nuts that held the wheel in place. Not one of them could I budge. I'm assuming that they loosen when turned anti-clockwise, but I tried clockwise as well, just in case. It's just as well that it wasn't an emergency. OK, the vehicle isn't brand new - it had been on the road for four years before I bought it. The odd thing is that when I needed to change a wheel in December on my 9 year old Berlingo just a couple of weeks before writing if off, I had no difficulty. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 15:35   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Skoda

Or a tin of spinach :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 15:44   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - swiss tony

normal after having tyres fitted at a tyre centre... they normally use air tools wound up to max - and have no idea what a torque wrench is. I would NEVER allow a tyre centre to touch my car, unless I was watching. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 15:53   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - rtj70

Everytime I have had wheels replaced at a tyre place they tighten using a torque wrench. Having said that, a mobile tyre fitter had great difficulty with the air tools to get a wheel of my old Passat. I think the steel bolt in the alloy wheel was stuck due to some corrosion of similar. It took about 15 minutes to get the last wheel off... no hope if you had the standard tyre wrench which offers very little leverage. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 07:30   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - MD

>> Everytime I have had wheels replaced at a tyre place they tighten using a torque >> wrench. >> >> Having said that, a mobile tyre fitter had great difficulty with the air tools to >> get a wheel of my old Passat. I think the steel bolt in the alloy >> wheel was stuck due to some corrosion of similar. It took about 15 minutes to >> get the last wheel off... no hope if you had the standard tyre wrench which >> offers very little leverage. >> Scaffold tube. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 15:59   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Alanovich

tyro, didn't you try to loosen the nuts a smidge before jacking it up? That way, you can jump up and down on the wheel wrench to put a bit more weight on it, without fear of knocking the car off the jack. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 16:17   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Zero

Yeah ~ always ~ crack the nuts off a bit while its on the ground, then jack it up. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 16:24   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Boxsterboy

Yes, you need to loosen the nuts a smidge before you jack. Also, the wheel braces supplied with cars are always carp. You need an extendable wheel wrench to really get over the tyre-monkeys best efforts to defeat you. Simples. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 16:29   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Old Navy

The tyre fast fit outfits using a torque wrench is a joke, I have seen them tighten wheelnuts with an air wrench set to max, and then check them with a torque wrench. No wonder it clicks. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 16:50   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Bromptonaut

Agree with others, get the nuts cracked off before jacking. Frankly the OEM wheelbrace is unlikley to be fit for the task and I'd be using a socket set with appropriate extension bar. As an eight stone weakling I'd probably be standing on the extension and bouncing; I don't want a hernia. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 17:03   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Skoda

The £3 lidl extending wheel brace is the exact same as the £7 tesco one and the £9 halfords one and they're as good as you'll find quality wise. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 17:26   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - tyro

Thanks all. It sounds, at the very least, like I need a new wheelbrace. I don't know a thing about them. I googled "Lidl wheelbrace" and saw a 4 way wheelbrace for £4.99. I don't know if that is what I want or not. "tyro, didn't you try to loosen the nuts a smidge before jacking it up? That way, you can jump up and down on the wheel wrench to put a bit more weight on it, without fear of knocking the car off the jack." No, I didn't, and thanks for the tip. I do, however, suspect that with the wheelbrace I was using, it might not have done much good. But then again, perhaps it might have. Last edited by: tyro on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 17:27 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 17:39   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Zero

Noooo Not a 4 way wheel brace.... Just as useless its not long enough. One of these www.amazon.co.uk/Draper-69661-Extending-Wheel-Wrench/dp/B0001KA1EE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1300729093&sr=8-1 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 17:47   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Armel Coussine

I agree those 4 way braces are a bit rough, although they are better than most OE ones. What no one has said is that whatever you use - and a socket with the right extensions is best - you need to use one hand to hold the spanner square on the nut or bolt head and the other to apply the force. Just sticking a spanner on the nut and jumping up and down on it risks rounding the nut and/or spanner. I've done it many times. Had a wheelnut so immovable on my VW once that I had to use a scaffolding pole as a lever. The socket exploded in the end. Can't remember how I got it off but there may have been other damage too. My local tyre place is exemplary in its behaviour. Pleasant chaps too. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 17:59   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - tyro

Thanks, RF. The order has been placed. "Just sticking a spanner on the nut and jumping up and down on it risks rounding the nut and/or spanner." I must confess that I was getting concerned that I might have done exactly that. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 17:59   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - henry k

>>I decided that I would change a wheel on my new Berlingo, just for practice, >> Always a good idea! Much better than finding the problems when in the dark on a wet n windy night especially on an important trip. >> >>Had a wheelnut so immovable on my VW once that I had to use a scaffolding pole as a lever. >> I had the same problem with a hire car when on holiday. More difficult getting a pole in a foreign land. >> >> The socket exploded in the end. Recently had a security nut snap in half and the stud had to be drilled out. Oh happy days Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 18:52   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Ted

> >> More difficult getting >> a pole in a foreign land. >> >> Not too bad if you're im Warsaw, though. I use a strongarm with a socket in the workshop. A much ' squarer ' turn than the extenders, I often have to use a length of pipe to give more torque. The 4 way has less leverage than what you want, they are good for spinning the nuts off when loose. Known as a Spider in the trade. You can get 6 way as well. Ted Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 18:15   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Zero

>> I agree those 4 way braces are a bit rough, although they are better than >> most OE ones. I have both actually. A folding 4 way brace and a long extending brace. The 4 way one is great for spinning the nuts on and off quickly. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 18:19   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Runfer D'Hills

I keep my nuts well enough lubricated to be able to spin them off by hand once released. Ooh Matron.... Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 18:24   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Skip

If the bolts or studs have overtightened could they have been damaged and need replacing ? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 18:34   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Zero

you may need to get a blow torch on them. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 18:38   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Dave_

>> I keep my nuts well enough lubricated to be able to spin them off by hand once released I was told that's a bad idea on alloy wheels Humph, as the copper grease (I assume?) allows overtightening of the nuts and possible hairline cracking of the wheel. I didn't read the OP thoroughly at first, yes for goodness' sake Tyro crack the nuts off with the car firmly on the ground! The last thing you want to be doing is applying shock loads with it perched on a spindly wind-up jack. Also, pull the handbrake firmly on and leave the car in gear (in Park if it's an automatic). Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 18:39 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 21:15   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Robin O'Reliant

>> I was told that's a bad idea on alloy wheels Humph, as the copper grease >> (I assume?) allows overtightening of the nuts and possible hairline cracking of the wheel. >> Copper grease isn't a lubricant but a barrier. I doubt if it would allow you to overtighten unless you are ham-fisted enough to tighten right to the limit anyway. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 21:24   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Number_Cruncher

>>I doubt if it would allow you to overtighten It does. Wheel bolt tightening torques are specified dry. We are lucky that steel bolts fail in such a graceful way that people tend to get away with horrendous bodging with car wheel bolts. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 21:54   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Hard Cheese

>> >>I doubt if it would allow you to overtighten >> >> It does. >> >> Wheel bolt tightening torques are specified dry. >> We have done this before, copper grease is fine, other greases and lubricants not so. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 22:18   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Number_Cruncher

>>copper grease is fine We have done this before, and copper grease isn't fine. Manufacturers specify wheel bolts should be tightened dry. Last edited by: Number_Cruncher on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 22:18 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 19:55   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Dog

>>The socket exploded in the end<< Obviously not a Snap On socket then :+) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 18:56   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - FotheringtonTomas

>> "tyro, didn't you try to loosen the nuts a smidge before jacking it up? That >> way, you can jump up and down on the wheel wrench to put a bit >> more weight on it, without fear of knocking the car off the jack." >> >> No, I didn't, and thanks for the tip. Young whipper-snapper. Another "tip" is to pull the wheelbrace (or spanner) rather than to "jump on it", a far more controllable and powerful method which won't graunch your nuts (in either way). Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 19:40   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - henry k

I thought one extended the wheelbrace, wedged it on the ground and drive a few inches in the appropriate direction " Let the car take the strain not your back?" And the next problem is the alloy wheels are stuck on ?. So put ther nuts back on but slack and do a few slow speed swerves on a quiet road to loosen them ? Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 19:44   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Zero

>> I thought one extended the wheelbrace, wedged it on the ground and drive a few >> inches in the appropriate direction " Let the car take the strain not your back?" Is that how you snapped the security nut? ;););) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 20:05   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - henry k

>> Is that how you snapped the security nut? >> >> ;););) >> Twas my trusted indie wot done it . Now reverted to normal nuts as no McGard nuts are available for the Yaris Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 19:46   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Iffy

...Another "tip" is to pull the wheelbrace (or spanner) rather than to "jump on it", a far more controllable and powerful method which won't graunch your nuts (in either way).... More than a tip, it's essential. Hard to describe, but you want to lean lightly against the car with the shoulder of your pulling hand and keep your hand and arm straight, using your four fingers as a hook. Put the brace on the nut at about horizontal and pull upwards firmly. When you get confident, you can mimic an impact tool by giving the brace a 'snatch' to shock the thread. I've been to breakdowns where the customer couldn't undo the wheelnut, but I've undone it using his brace, but my correct technique. Jumping on the brace is for the home bodger. Last edited by: Iffy on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 19:47 Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 19:56   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - VxFan

If you've got an extending wheelbrace, don't use it to tighten the nuts / bolts back up or you'll risk overtightening them. Either use the manufacturers brace or even better a torque wrench set to the correct setting. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 20:02   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Dog

>>Jumping on the brace is for the home bodger<< You rang! ... I've always "jumped on" the wheelbrace & never had any trouble whatsoever ever not never. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 20:37   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Skoda

>> You rang! ... I've always "jumped on" the wheelbrace & never had any trouble whatsoever >> ever not never. If you didn't jump on it, i'd feel i hadn't got my moneys worth. Need to put a show on for the punter! Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 21:09   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Dog

>>If you didn't jump on it, i'd feel i hadn't got my moneys worth. Need to put a show on for the punter!<< That's right! ... Ahem, I'll be leaving you know Sir :) Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 22:06   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Lygonos

A couple of times I've been stranded with a near immovable wheel nut after a puncture, with only the OE wheelbrace to work with and 'welded-on' wheelnuts. Step One: Jack car up several inches until the wheel is just about off the ground Step Two: put the wheelbrace on the chosen nut with its length running horizontally to the right Step Three: put a brick/log/whatever under the end of the wheelbrace Step Four: Slowly lower the car using it's weight as a lever on the wheelnut (car lowers but brace remains on the brick/whatever) Step Five Do NOT look at the brace while doing step four in case it 'twangs' and kills you. Job jobbed. Reply to this message | Report message

Mon 21 Mar 11 23:56   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Dave_

My dad taught me how to change a punctured wheel on his car when I was a learner - including loosening the nuts before jacking up the car, and tightening them by pulling the wheelbrace with the car on the ground.. Which reminds me, I must remove and refit the wheels on the Mondeo tomorrow, so I know they will come off if I ever need to change one out on the road in the dark. The Ford wheelbrace was missing when I got it but the spacesaver doesn't appear to have ever been used. Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 23:58 Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 10:22   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - sherlock47

>>Step Five Do NOT look at the brace while doing step four in case it 'twangs' and kills you.<< Always better to not know when the end is coming! Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 07:46   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Hard Cheese

>> I'm assuming that they loosen when turned anti-clockwise, but I tried clockwise as well, just in case. >> That's a little concerning, you could have overtightened them if they had moved. That's where a little copper grease comes in, it ensures that the the nut/bolt facing and the wheel facing don't bind so consistent torque can be applied on assembly and consistent torque only is needed on disassembly. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 09:11   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Lygonos

When good science goes bad... Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 10:11   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - VxFan

>> >> I'm assuming that they loosen when turned anti-clockwise, but I tried clockwise as well, just in case. >> That's a little concerning, you could have overtightened them if they had moved. Actually if a thread is rusted up, you can quite often release it by slightly tightening it first. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 10:52   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Hard Cheese

>> Actually if a thread is rusted up, you can quite often release it by slightly tightening it first. >> That was not the OP's intention, rather that he considered that the threads might be left handed. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 20:21   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - tyro

I was in a tyre place today, so I mentioned my inability to loosen the nuts to the gent who was assisting me. He took a 4 way wheelbrace, went around each of the four wheels, and loosened the nuts. (Needless to say, he didn't jack up the car!) I asked him if they had been over-tightened, and he said "Not really." Oh dear . . . . How embarrassing. Anyway, at least I should be able to change the wheels myself now. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 20:22   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Runfer D'Hills

That's Irn-Bru for you Tyro... :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 20:26   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - Zero

One wonders how the Northern hoards ever managed to scare Publius Aelius Hadrianus and the 7th Legion. Reply to this message | Report message

Tue 22 Mar 11 21:00   Perhaps a can of goo is what I really want - tyro

Och, nae problem, RF. All that was necessary was deploying a detachment of the womenfolk from lower Clydeside. :-) Reply to this message | Report message