Motoring Discussion > Getting to grips with winter tyres. Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Dog Replies: 34

 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
Read the comments as well ~

www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/road-safety/8388582/Getting-to-grips-with-winter-tyres.html
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Fenlander
Article good... some of the comments are pure opinion/rubbish though.

Mrs F's all-season tyres are happily doing the normal wet/dry stuff... we never think of them as anything other than ordinary tyres in non-winter driving.

From this experience I'd never bother with two sets of rims for UK use.... just keep the all-seasons on all year.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 10:05
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
We'll be moving to a remote moorland area soon (if all goes well) and I've been a'thinking about buying a cheapo 4X4 like a mrk 1 Rav4 and just insure it for low miles (2nd veh.) to be used just in the ice age but - on reading that terrorflag article I would now go the route of winter tyres on my Almera or what ever I replace said car with in the future (Mazda 3 / Suzuki SX4)
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Old Navy
My youngsters bought winter tyres for their Honda FRV family bus. They live in St Andrews and had serious snow this winter. He was so impressed with them he is getting a set for his BMW.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Boxsterboy
Yes, it's a good article. And yes, some of the comments are rubbish - like "winter tyres are atrocious in summer".
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Zero
Every time this question comes up, I always ask "why not keep winter tyres on all the time"

No-one ever comes up with an answer.

>> Yes, it's a good article. And yes, some of the comments are rubbish - like
>> "winter tyres are atrocious in summer".
>>
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Mapmaker
>>Every time this question comes up, I always ask "why not keep winter tyres on all the time"


AFAIK. Because they are made of a softer compound. And therefore on a hot summer road wear out very quickly as the rubber just sticks to the road.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - PR
Zero, I think the reason is that winter tyres in higher temps dont perform as well as summer tyres.

www.autoexpress.co.uk/products/total_tyre_guide/259465/dry_braking.html

(though it doesnt mention the temperature of the test here the summers are better in the dry).


Also the winter tyres will wear far quicker.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Skoda
I ran winters on the 7er for ~2 weeks in summer last year (summer alloys were getting refurbed). No noticeable wear to the tread despite hitting 20 degrees C a couple of times, and that's a heavy car too. Demanding of it's rubber.
Last edited by: Skoda on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 11:16
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Boxsterboy
>> Every time this question comes up, I always ask "why not keep winter tyres on
>> all the time"
>>
>> No-one ever comes up with an answer.
>>

Our VW Transporter was supplied from the factory with M&S tyres. They stay on all year round and I really cannot tell any difference in their summer abilities compared to 'normal' tyres.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
>>Mrs F's all-season tyres are happily doing the normal wet/dry stuff... we never think of them as anything other than ordinary tyres in non-winter driving.<<

Ah, but ... the shire of Cambridge etc., is relatively flat, compared to hillier areas of the UK :+)

 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dave
Some people here run winter tyres all year without any apparent problems. I'm note sure that softer in cold weather automatically mean very soft in warmer weather. I guess they aren't optimised for summer use, but probably not too bad either.

I know that BF Goodrich all-terrrains are snowflaked, and they last for 40 or 50K miles of year round use.

Mine are down to about 3mm now, and rubbish in soft snow and slush. So I'll remove the studs and run them the rest of the summer (if it ever arrives) and see what happens.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
I suppose at the end of the day it boils down to £.s.d, if you only do about 6-8k miles like we do then to keep the winter tyres on all year would be worthy of consideration (except for the wet road breaking performance) but if you're a high miler, and pay for your own rubber, then a spare set of tyres & rims wouldn't be such a bad idea.
Last edited by: Dog on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 11:42
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Hard Cheese

If winters tyres were as good as summer tyres all year then tyre manufacturers would not need to make two types.

Winter tyres are not as good above roughly 7deg ambient and often don't clear water as well in very wet conditions. Furthermore they dont grip as well in normal dry weather.

Hence summer tyres are better (and certainly a better compromise) for perhaps 90% of the time here in the UK.

However for those that live a little off the beaten track and regularly tackle mud, sand etc then winter tyres may be suitable for all year use.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Skoda
>> except for the wet road breaking performance

This is one of the areas winters excell. I've tried quite a few brands of winter tyre now, and all of them have been confidence inspiring the the wet.

Especially on water logged roads, there's a marked improvement over summers, they refuse to aquaplane.

Braking, turning, they're very very good in the wet in my experience.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
>> I've tried quite a few brands of winter tyre now, and all of them have been confidence inspiring the the wet.<<

What make of winter tyre would you recommend for the average bear, Skoda?

 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Skoda
The Bridgestone Blizzak LM-18s have been really good for the money on the Golf with 15" rims and at under £50 a tyre fitted they're a steal. A cut above the previous nokians in the white stuff too, comparable on everything else. For our climate they seem an ace match.

They're ~1.5 years old now haven't bothered to measure tread because there's visibly tons left. Nowhere near 4mm.

Will see how they go this summer since they're staying on (i think they'll perish before the tread wears out otherwise).

Last edited by: Skoda on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 13:32
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
>>The Bridgestone Blizzak LM-18s<<

Thanks, I'll keep a lookout for those - I'm more interested in the performance on icy roads more than anything.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Old Navy
>> >>The Bridgestone Blizzak LM-18s<<
>>
>> Thanks, I'll keep a lookout for those - I'm more interested in the performance on
>> icy roads more than anything.
>>

Ice is ice unless you have studded tyres, which are illegal in the UK except in extreme conditions where they will not damage the road surface. (Probably would not notice with the UK roads)
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
>>Ice is ice unless you have studded tyres<<

But shirley O/N, winter tyres would perform better on ice than my summer Falken Ziex tyres,
which were absolute carp.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Skoda
They're surprisingly good on ice. Modern studless compounds are supposed to be better than the small studed variety of ice tyres that you can use on tarmac and you avoid the ~40mph max speed.

They do give you the confidence that you'll be able to maneuvre rather than sitting spinning wheels going nowhere - but they're still nowhere near what could be called grippy on sheet ice.

I reckon you'd be able to build up a fair speed reasonably quickly, turn and stop again if you could find a big enough ice patch to test them on.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
>>They're surprisingly good on ice<<

Thanks! ... I'm sort-of forward thinking, having heard of many folk being stuck for weeks (in their homes) during the last ice age in (sometimes) not-so remote areas.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Old Navy
>> >>They're surprisingly good on ice<<
>>
>> Thanks! ... I'm sort-of forward thinking, having heard of many folk being stuck for weeks
>> (in their homes) during the last ice age in (sometimes) not-so remote areas.
>>

The only reason we were stuck for a week was the snow was 5' deep and it took the council that long to get a JCB to us to dig us out. Snow tyres are useless if your car turns into a (crap) bulldozer.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dog
>>The only reason we were stuck for a week was the snow was 5' deep and it took the council that long to get a JCB to us to dig us out.<<

Yes, I do remember that O/N ... 5ft, crikey! - but then stuck is stuck, be it 5' or 5".
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Bagpuss
Wet weather performance of winter tyres is poorer than summer tyres, which results in increased braking distances. This is mainly due to the tread pattern being optimised for ice and snow but the tread compound also has an affect, especially when the ambient temperature is above around 10C. This is the main reason winter tyres are not recommended for all year use in Germany. Other disadvantages of winter tyres are higher wear rate, higher noise and higher fuel consumption.

Basically, winter tyres are optimised to get maximum grip in low temperatures where there is potentially ice and snow. Summer tyres are optimised for everything else.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Fenlander
>>>Wet weather performance of winter tyres is poorer than summer tyres

So some say... perhaps true... perhaps not.... not what Autoexpress found to any degree.

Anyway this is why we chose all-season with a winter rating so best of all worlds.

They are not noisy, they grip in the dry, they grip in the wet, they grip in the cold, they grip on snow, they grip on ice.
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 12:04
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Mike H
>> Some people here run winter tyres all year without any apparent problems.

In Austria where I live, quite a few people seem to do the same. As you also mention, I think it's because the minimum tread depth for winter tyres to be legal as "winter tyres" is 4mm, so rather than bin them when they hit that limit they run them in the summer until the tread reaches the "normal" minimum of 1.6mm.
Last edited by: Mike H on Mon 21 Mar 11 at 12:32
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - tyro
"Article good... some of the comments are pure opinion/rubbish though."

Sorry for going off-topic, but my experience with comments on articles in the Telegraph (& other periodicals) is that an alarmingly high proportion of comments are pure opinion, & often total rubbish.

It is a surreal experience to read a dozen or so comments, and find that in the middle of all the garbage, that someone with real expertise has written something that is interesting and useful.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Old Navy
We can't expect journalists to be experts on anything, sorry, everything. :-)
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Dave
There's no speed limit with studded tyres.

There was a bit of hoo haa here a couple of years ago when one tyre tests showed that studless were as good as studded on ice. The government went into overdrive to persaude people to forgoe studs, sensing a great way of saving money repairing worn out roads. They even jumped on the health bandwagon, saying the dust that studs kick up on dry roads was dangerous to health. Unfortunately, someone realised that the studless tyres had been tested on the same piece of ice that the studded tyres had already been tested on, and was therefore 'roughed up'. When retested on virgin ice, the performance was not as good. So it turned out that studded tyre users are actually doing others a favour by roughing up the ice and making it safer for all.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - NeilS
>>>>>Wet weather performance of winter tyres is poorer than summer tyres

Generally speaking that is the case at least according to the many tests I trawled through when selecting winter tyres. One did better than all the summer tyres in the wet tests (excluding wet weather specialist tyres) - Nokian WRG2 which they call a 4 season tyre. Had mine on for 12,000 miles and used up 2mm of the 8+mm tread having put them on in September last year and drove in high 20C's with no issues, very good in the wet especially standing water any time of year, miles better than the Yokohama M+S tyres that came OEM.

If I lived up north and regularly experienced snow over the winter period I'd have dedicated winter tyres as they offer a bit better snow grip (and to some extent ice grip too) but living in the south where if the snow comes it melts pretty quick the wet weather and cold weather performance of a decent all season tyre suits me.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Bagpuss
>> Wet weather performance of winter tyres is poorer than summer tyres

It was only after I'd written that that I got around to engaging brain. *Hangs head in shame*.

It's the dry weather performance of summer tyres which is far superior to winter tyres. In wet weather, winter tyres of good quality are pretty comparable to summer tyres, even at higher termperatures. In warmer weather on dry roads, the braking distance of a winter tyre can be 50% or so more than a summer tyre. So probably not really an issue in rainy England;-)
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Hard Cheese

>> >> Wet weather performance of winter tyres is poorer than summer tyres
>>
>> It was only after I'd written that that I got around to engaging brain. *Hangs
>> head in shame*.
>>

Why? From what I understand that above around 7deg ambient the wet weather performance of winter tyres is poorer than summer tyres.


 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Zero
At the end of the day, I have never had a problem getting anywhere in snow in the UK* on standard tyres. Until that situation changes, I really cant justify the expense or aggravation of having two sets of tyres.

*I have but that was due to roads being closed, or other drivers getting stuck.
 Getting to grips with winter tyres. - Skoda
>> From what I understand that above around 7deg ambient the wet weather performance of winter tyres is poorer than summer tyres.

Are you sure? In wet conditions the tread comes into play. Winter tyres normally have great tread patterns for evacuating water from under them.

Just going on personal experience, the best yet for wet roads have been the goodyear ultra grip 7+s i fitted to the octy this winter. Also we had a few days tipping 12 degrees or so and when i switched back to summers, i didn't notice an increase in grip from them in 12 degrees. I did notice the difference in the mornings at 3 degrees though.

Just from my experiences I'd question the 7 degrees thing, i cant find where it comes from. Michelen, Nokian, Bridgestone, Goodyear, none of them mention it in their plentiful marketing materials that i've looked at.

I wonder if it's for nordic winter tyres which are different again from the winter types you'd buy here and it's just stuck. Places that peddle it are the AA, Kwik Fit website articles etc. etc.
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