>> It keeps happening. I do wonder why.
>>
Err, it's cos the bus is taller than the bridge ...
;-)
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Nah, that only happens once. Bridge 1 : Bus 0
John
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Last minute change of bus or route is a usual one.
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>> It keeps happening. I do wonder why.
Driver error, no two ways about it.
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>> Driver error, no two ways about it.
That is the one and only cause of this accident and, whilst it is terrible that so many children were injured, the bus driver can count himself very lucky that nobody was killed.
There is absolutely no excuse for taking a double decker under a low bridge.
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I'm sure I heard of a fatal bus crash somewhere in the UK today - can't find a link.
The driver was arrested on suspicion of causing death by careless or dangerous driving, which is almost automatic nowadays.
A crash on the road is bound to be less clear cut than clouting a bridge.
I'm a little bit uncomfortable with the assumption that where there's a crash, there's a crime.
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Difficult to see that you drive a bus into a bridge without at least being careless though.
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It's suspicion of a crime if you want to be picky.
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>> I'm sure I heard of a fatal bus crash somewhere in the UK today -
>> can't find a link.
>>
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1366389/Finlay-Connor-knocked-classmates-outside-school.html
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You can always rely on the forum's favourite newspaper.
I am aware that charges need not follow an arrest, but I do think an arrest in cases like these sets the tone of an investigation, and there's a danger it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Had this same crash happened 20 years ago, it's unlikely bus driver would have been arrested.
The criminalising of road accidents is a very recent phenomenon.
Justified in many cases, but not all.
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Wasn't using single decker buses one of the "reasons" for moving more power to the Welsh Assembly (Parliament?)? I couldn't understand how the two were connected since it seems to me to be just a contractual thing, "Please tender for a bus service to run from here to there at these times using single decker buses.". End of story.
John
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>> You can always rely on the forum's favourite newspaper.
>>
I am so sorry iffy, try this one.
www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/234624/Boy-6-dies-in-bus-crash-outside-his-school-gates
Or this one.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-12743213
Or....................
Last edited by: Old Navy on Tue 15 Mar 11 at 19:29
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...I am so sorry iffy, try this one...
Thanks.
The pic makes it an easy victory for the Daily Mail.
Edit: Which has now been obtained by the BBC.
Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 15 Mar 11 at 19:31
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15 March 2011 Last updated at 08:53 BBC's update.
Last updated at 10:30 AM on 15th March 2011 - Mail's update.
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...last updated....
I saw that, but what neither of us know is what those updates were.
The Mail were claiming the first pic which they wouldn't have done if the pic was all over the net, because they would just look stupid.
And no one likes to look stupid, do they?
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They managed it the other day.
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>> ...last updated....
>>
>> I saw that, but what neither of us know is what those updates were.
>>
>> The Mail were claiming the first pic which they wouldn't have done if the pic
>> was all over the net, because they would just look stupid.
>>
>> And no one likes to look stupid, do they?
They didn't claim they had published it first, they claimed it was the first picture.
Its a Press Association syndicated picture, so it was freelance and sold to the PA.
Last edited by: Zero on Tue 15 Mar 11 at 20:01
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...Its a Press Association syndicated picture, so it was freelance and sold to the PA...
A couple of assumptions there, which like all assumptions, could well be a load of cobblers.
The pic may have been collected by a local newspaper journalist, a Mail staffer, a PA staffer, a BBC reporter, an agency staffer, or possibly a freelance.
Without being insensitive, it's only a pic of an RTC victim, so it's most unlikely any money will have changed hands.
PA certainly don't pay for pics in these circumstances, and the pic is not really desirable enough for any of the others to put their hands in their pockets.
Whoever got the pic first may have agreed to 'pool' the picture to save the family from being bothered further.
The Mail having first use fits quite well, because the pic is not in the Express, and the Mail may have pooled it, or asked PA to pool it, on condition the Express didn't get it.
So everyone gets the picture tagged 'Express Newspapers out'.
The BBC are in the mix somewhere, so it could be the Mail and the Beeb turned up on the family's doorstep at the same time and agreed to share the pic, before it was pooled.
Arguing in front of grieving parents is regarded as unseemly, even in journalism circles.
Last edited by: Iffy on Tue 15 Mar 11 at 20:36
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"The Mail having first use fits quite well, because the pic is not in the Express, and the Mail may have pooled it, or asked PA to pool it, on condition the Express didn't get it."
I would have thought you would have known that the Mail cant ask the PA to do that. Its not what the PA stand for. you cant pool things on a "everyone but him" basis
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...I would have thought you would have known that the Mail cant ask the PA to do that. Its not what the PA stand for. you cant pool things on a "everyone but him" basis...
It's been done many times to my knowledge.
If PA get a picture directly from a punter then everyone should get it, but even then there are no hard and fast rules.
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Its been standard practice to arrest the signalman or driver on the railways if there has been a death caused by the accident... See no reason why it shouldn't be any different with this sort of accident, after all, as has been said its the drivers' fault pure and simple... There are signs telling him the height and I understand that they should know the height of the bus they are driving... If the two don't tally then don't go under (or through) it...
Makes a change from lorries hitting them... looking at the map it looks like its on the goods only line past Barrow Hill shed up to Beighton Junc...
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There was an iron bridge like that one in Derbyshire, on the A30 in Cornwall called 'the iron bridge' (Pat nose it)
In the 15 years we've lived in Cornwall it was hit on too frequent a basis through - driver error!
It's been bypassed now and the road is all nice n' peaceful, mostly.
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"The police are investigating whether the bus should have been on that route"
Well look, it's just a wild guess, but I would say, er - possibly not?
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I reckon you're right Duncan. The missing roof is a clue I think. Best put it in a poly bag like they do on the telly (BBC even :-) )
John
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>> Had this same crash happened 20 years ago, it's unlikely bus driver would have been arrested
Standard procedure these days, no more "helping the police with their inquiries" or even "questioning under caution". Gets another set of DNA on the database too.
I'm not anti- police officers doing their job - far from it - but ticking boxes and meeting targets can, in a lot of cases, take up more of their time than actual policing.
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Back to the OP and the link which says Works Road, Hollingwood, Chesterfield... Well I've just "driven" down it on Google Maps, and whilst there is a low railway bridge on that road, it ain't the one in the photo...
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>> whilst there is a low railway bridge on that road, it ain't the one in the photo
I tried that earlier and came to the same conclusion. A bit more rooting around suggests it's the one a few hundred yards further down the same road, after the name change to Whittington Road:
bit.ly/h0pTFF
A bridge height of 13'0" would tally more closely with the level of damage to the bus too (upper deck seats intact).
Last edited by: Dave_TDCi {P} on Tue 15 Mar 11 at 21:02
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I didn't bother going onto the next road... rubbish reporting again...
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It's a cheaper process to arrest charge and bail than it is to summons - by a factor of ten.
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I once drove a LandRover into a multi-story car park and smashed an illuminated sign.
The swinging board at the entrance was hanging 3 inches too high for the height it displayed, so I crept under it without touching.
After a long argument with NCP they abandonded their attempt to get me to pay for the damage. They tried to claim that the purpose of the board was merely to display the height, not to actually hang at the displayed height.
I did a survey of all the other NCP car parks in London and found their boards were all hanging at exactly the heights displayed - apart from Wandsworth. I asked them why they did that if they were not intended as tell-tales.
I also got a response from the AA and Practical Motorist agreeing that everyone knew the purpose of a hanging board was to act as a physical tell-tale.
Having manoeuvred them into saying that the boards were not intended to be physical indicators, I kept a check on the height of the Wandsworth board for months afterwards to see whether they would adjust it. But they craftily left it alone.
So it may still be at the wrong height, 35 years later.
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There used to be just such a swinging board at the entrance to the short stay multi-storey at Gatport Airwick North terminal, with a silhouette of a LR Discovery and a big green tick on it... The car park ceiling height was a little higher than most.
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I can understand common motorist forgetting about bicycles on roof of car (for this reason I never carry bikes on roof).
But a bus driver is a professional! There is no excuse for forgetting the fact the he is driving a double decker bus!
On a different note, why not fit a parking sensor like object in top of buses? It should warn drivers of incoming obstruction appx 100 yards away or so.
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>> On a different note, why not fit a parking sensor like object in top of
>> buses? It should warn drivers of incoming obstruction appx 100 yards away or so.
Because they dont have 100 metres range,
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Then fit something similar to what is used for automated cruise control :-)
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I confess to taking out a fluorescent light at the entrance to a multi-storey car park. I was driving an unfamiliar vehicle, but it had a height label that indicated it was lower than the car park limit.
The attendant admitted the lights had been installed after the height restriction sign.
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There's a couple of bridges in Romsey which get bashed regularly, this one has a fancy sensor and flashing sign (the square thing on the wall above the left hand carriageway) . I've had lorries in front of me trigger this sign, but they still carry on under the bridge.
tinyurl.com/5smyr3m
Judging by the Streetview photo this one is hopefully high enough for a double decker!
This one 100 yds. up the road is lower and trickier but they didn't bother with a sensor.
tinyurl.com/62lezfx
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>> >> On a different note, why not fit a parking sensor like object in top
>> of
>> >> buses? It should warn drivers of incoming obstruction appx 100 yards away or so.
>>
>> Because they dont have 100 metres range,
>>
But the cruise control radar systems do!
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>> www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-derbyshire-12744093
>>
>> It keeps happening. I do wonder why.
>>
>> John
>>
Normally because the driver is used to single deckers and has been put into a double decker for the day.
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Bus hits bridge - Hard Cheese
