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Aromatics, combustion residue, and petrol / diesel discussion stress. :-)
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They don't call it diseasal for nothing!
To be fair there's a lot of room for improvement for both fuels, but it amazes me how lax the diesel emissions requirements are, ignoring the ACEA false start, it's clear that EURO5 has been hard to comply with but it's quite shocking when you think how much isn't covered by EURO5 or the upcoming EURO6 requirements in terms of diesel emissions.
If manufacturers are struggling with these requirements, we've no hope of enforcing proper restrictions on tailpipe emissions.
* Says the guy with the crankcase purposefully venting to atmosphere on an old golf... i might revisit that.
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Thaks Skoda but can you explain what the laxness in EURO5/6 letting by in terms or real nasteis and actual harms??
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'scuse the spelling, acetaldehyde, formaldehyde, butadiene, there's more *dehydes i can't remember off the top of my head.
In general they are a mixture of carcinogens, respiratory aggravators and promote blood, heart and artery related problems.
EDIT: obviously there's a lot more but the names don't lend themselves to memorising. The effects of them on humans do though. Google's awash with stuff so i wont post links.
Last edited by: Skoda on Fri 11 Mar 11 at 13:04
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As long as we continue to burn fossil fuels in antiquated internal combustion engines, it's going to be harmful to your health, petrol or diesel (or LPG).
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Should we call it quits and give up?
:-)
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>> Should we call it quits and give up?
>>
>> :-)
Yes!!
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What's the name of the proven carcinogen that is given off when you fill up with petrol, such that some countries require traps on the filler nozzle to try and catch it?
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The only reference I have seen is to "Volatile organic compounds". Some info on the kit here.
tinyurl.com/6fgflbo
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>> What's the name of the proven carcinogen that is given off when you fill up with petrol
It shares the same name as the one emitted from the diesel exhaust pipe, benzene.
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>> It shares the same name as the one emitted from the diesel exhaust pipe, benzene.
>>
Which is rather akin to saying that diesel produces carbon monoxide as well, which it does... The difference is that in petrol powered cars the levels of the two are dangerous, in diesel they aren't...
I can see yet another petrol vs diesel discussion coming up where people's favourites cause them to defend their corner without regards for the one fact that is the key...
"They are both bad for us!"
But until they come up with a viable alternative we're stuck with them!
Last edited by: hobby on Fri 11 Mar 11 at 20:05
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hobby>> without regards for
Skoda>> To be fair there's a lot of room for improvement for both fuels
?! :-)
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General comment about the thread as a whole, Skoda, not aimed at you... I always find with this subject that each person has their favourites and often people "over defend" their fuel... Simple fact is they are both bad, as you and I agree!
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I don't *hate* diesel or even dislike it, not really, although i do champion the petrol case on this site when these topics come up (thank the BMW straight 6 for that about turn on my part).
Modern petrol turbo's, what with their clever use of EGR to provide anti-lag without the bang bang (i'd personally tick the bang bang option if it were available ;-), their improved economy over NA petrol... the list's been done to death. That 1.7l unit from Alfa seems really decent, VAG's TSi engines etc. etc.
They're the new diesel, diesel's for mimsers now :-)
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>> I don't *hate* diesel or even dislike it, not really, although i do champion the
>> petrol case on this site when these topics come up
Which makes my point... All we end up with is a "mines better than yours" discussion when this comes up!
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Ahh it's all a light distraction, some of us are still stuck in the office!
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>>some of us are still stuck in the office!
>>
My long weekend, Yeh!!
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I understand that neither fuel does much for your health if you drink it ?
Last edited by: idle_chatterer on Sat 12 Mar 11 at 14:04
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>> >> Should we call it quits and give up?
>> >>
>> >> :-)
>>
>> Yes!!
>>
Not yet.
I'd like to get home from work first...
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Was reading the Guardian a couple of days back when contamination of food via recycled packaging made from re-cycled paper was in the news.
What struck me was the fact that our bodies already apparently contain, on average, around one gram of mineral oil – that is by far the largest contaminant we have in our body. For some people it is 10 grams.
Any extra contamination from the packaging, it was pointed out, would be marginal
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What about the good old days and lead pipes?!
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>> What struck me was the fact that our bodies already apparently contain, on average, around
>> one gram of mineral oil – that is by far the largest contaminant we have
>> in our body.
:-O!
>>For some people it is 10 grams.
Are they the ones who spontaneously combust?
Last edited by: Manatee on Sun 13 Mar 11 at 08:56
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I thought I'd find the answer here, but I couldn't. www.nutramed.com/environment/carschemicals.htm
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I'm more concerned about the cardivascular diseases caused by the particulates in diesel exhaust gases. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/06/080604114550.htm When I did a lot of motorway driving where there was a high concentration of HGVs I regularly suffered with asthma. Now I'm in a cleaner environment its gone.
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Not wishing to contradict that link, but my understanding is that diesel has less small particulates than petrol emissions, but more larger ones, that seems to indicate the opposite... Also with a DPF they are considerably reduced (the Gov site I've just checked list particulates with a DPF as being nil!).
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When the diesel vs petrol discussion gets going its clear that those against diesel tend to lump cars and commercial vehicles together, something which will always go against diesel as a fuel, and they reason they do it...
However in reality it is unfair to compare bus/lorry/large van exhaust emissions with diesel car emissions... With modern exhaust equipment such as DPFs the emissions from diesel cars are normally cleaner than petrol, something that tends to get lost when this is discussed... I've no doubt that in due course petrols will become cleaner and more efficient, and its interesting that very often the technology used is developed for the other fuel and then transferred...
However the real culprits for pollution are commercial vehicles and I'd suggest that they are responsible for most of the visible pollution we see on a daily basis...
Last edited by: hobby on Sat 12 Mar 11 at 16:38
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>> the emissions from diesel cars are normally cleaner than petrol
Nope!
They produce less greenhouse gas, so you're taxed less. Not the same as producing less harmful pollutants to humans & animals.
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Less particulates, etc, etc... Look up the Gov Emissions website! Though it does, as usual, depend on what engines you compare, and what emissions... And I expect that petrols will start to get DPFs soon to clean up all those small particulates they produce! ;-)
Anyhow at least if I fall asleep in a closed garage with my diesel engine running I'll wake up alive... Unlike a petrol car! ;-)
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>> Anyhow at least if I fall asleep in a closed garage with my diesel engine
>> running I'll wake up alive... Unlike a petrol car! ;-)
You're not going to feel too clever afterwards though, in fact you'll probably still die.
www.belleville.k12.wi.us/bhs/health/environment/nitrogen_oxide.htm
Last edited by: corax on Sun 13 Mar 11 at 11:03
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The petrol example, so long as you don't suffocate yourself with co or hc emissions, you can breathe it every day and in just about every case there will be no lasting effects. Do the same with diesel and you're killing yourself off, in every case.
Petrol emissions just don't contain some of the harmful to health components of diesel emissions, and the ones they share, are in such small quantities that the diesel is on the back foot and needs to catch up.
P.s. Dpf filters convert soot to water and co2 during regen, they manage pretty high filtration of the most harmful particulate matter, theyre a massive step forward in diesel emissions.
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We'll have to agree to disagree, Skoda... There are plenty of websites around which contradict your views as well as plenty which contradict mine, the problem is, as always, vested interests...
I'd rather the Governments start concentrating on other transport and leave cars alone, car manufacturers have done an awful lot over the past two decades, but that is not reflected in the rest of the transport industry... Starting with buses, HGVs, and aircraft should get some results... Followed by the electric and gas industries...
Might cost us though...
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>> with a DPF they are considerably reduced (the Gov site I've just checked list particulates
>> with a DPF as being nil!).
>>
Until it starts the purge cycle.....
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Yes, ST, I did wonder about that... I'm sure they have a reason for still showing it as nil...
Anyhow, as I said before I think when it comes to modern cars we are arguing over very small differences, as I don't feel that the car, in this case, is the main culprit... Though its the one the Gov like to sting!
Last edited by: hobby on Sun 13 Mar 11 at 08:49
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Carcinogenic, petrol or diesel worse? - Skoda
