|
Seven years. Twenty if death had been caused. Full restitution of all damage from personal savings. Damn carphound.
Last edited by: Armel Coussine on Sun 6 Mar 11 at 16:40
|
Given that someones life has been forever affected by this mans actions, id lean towards 10 years and a lifetime ban on driving, he clearly has the IQ of a goldfish to think that such actions were anything other than insanely dangerous, borne out by the consequences. Giving the finger is one thing, brake testing HGVs is lunacy.
His previous employment isnt really relevant although its a mercy he is no longer in a position of such responsibility.
|
If I were the judge I guess I would be subject to the same guidelines as the real judge.
www.cps.gov.uk/legal/s_to_u/sentencing_manual/dangerous_driving/
I would guess he's going to get 6-12 months
|
As CG says, the judge can only act within sentencing guidelines.
I reckon he will go down for 12-18 months.
|
|
Re reading the guidelines I think I would agree with Zero The serious injury caused to the lorry driver is going to push it towards the maximum
|
Yes. I was too hasty. That sort of driving makes me hot under the collar, like a lot of other sorts of driving. But even a mature person can behave in an aberrant fashion sometimes. I guess courts try to embody the wisdom of the ages.
I do hate that sort of behaviour although (as someone else said) the fact that the miscreant is an ex-policemn makes no difference really.
|
Maximum sentence for dangerous driving is two years.
The guy contested it, so is not entitled to discount for a guilty plea.
I reckon the judge will see it towards the higher end, partly because the highest end is only two years.
This is not ice skating, so no one gets the maximum.
That makes it 21 months.
|
"This is not ice skating, so no one gets the maximum."
Are you saying that Torvill or Dean would have got two years?
|
|
Well Dean was an ex copper so he should have known better.
|
|
Ice dancing should be a capital offence
|
Don't knock the ice.
Spent many a few hours at the Birmingham rink (Silver Blades?) over weekends in the 70s. Found it you could stay up, go round corners and stop then the choice of ice maidens was much increased... own your own car (as RR said in a recent thread) too back then and 6.0 across the board was a cert.
|
>> 6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0 6.0
>>
Well, if those are months that makes it two and a half years....
Which would be too short, IMHO.
|
However, to play devil's advocate...
It can be very annoying to be stuck behind a lorry which is overtaking another by going about 0.1 mph faster. I seem to remember a case on the A74 in Scotland where the overtake took over 15 miles.
Presumably the lorries were following each other too closely to cause the pile-up - I regularly see a mini convoy where each lorry is within 5 metres of the one in front. Professional drivers?
I'm not condoning this chap's behaviour but the behaviour of some lorry drivers leaves a lot to be desired.
|
I think you're right Pat.
As there were grievous injuries and somebody left unable to work I expect there wil be a civil damages case. Would be interesting to see how the contributory negligence elements affect any damages.
|
with hindsight the first wagon shouldnt have braked
problem solved because lets be honest the kind of people who pull in front of you to vent road rage usually do it on a regular basis as pat will know as she was was a regular trunker trying to keep to timed deliveries or get the sack or lose timed slots and so the haulier owner gets penalties and has to shut down the business
friend of mine does just in time to milan and there is a £30,000 penalty if goods dont arrive just in
|
>> However, to play devil's advocate...
>>
>> It can be very annoying to be stuck behind a lorry which is overtaking another
>> by going about 0.1 mph faster. I seem to remember a case on the A74
>> in Scotland where the overtake took over 15 miles.
Indeed, and warrants the finger, a shed load of abuse hurled from the window at the trucker.
>> Presumably the lorries were following each other too closely to cause the pile-up - I
>> regularly see a mini convoy where each lorry is within 5 metres of the one
>> in front. Professional drivers?
Probably, I don't think I ever see a gap large enough for one truck to stop safely behind another. The feeling seems to be that the truck in front will clear a path through any carnage,
>> I'm not condoning this chap's behaviour but the behaviour of some lorry drivers leaves a
>> lot to be desired.
It does, BUT - you need to be some kind of first class idiot to try and brake test a truck up your backside. He needs to be locked up for being a richard head if nothing else.
|
You raise an interesting point Pat. It doesn't relieve Anderson of any responsibility, but I wonder if Mr. McGeachy is now considering the wisdom of not easing off slightly and facilitating the overtake? Or if it has crossed his, or Mr. Harrison's, mind that the common habit of ignoring separation distances with LGVs is dangerous?
I doubt Anderson will even get a custodial. Nothing much ever seems to happen to the premeditating scrotes on 'Traffic Wars', does it?
I have personally watched an 11 mile overtake. At times the overtakee was regaining ground. It didn't bother me much at the time, as I was bimbling anyway with time in hand - but I was agog.
Time to dust this one off? (Lorry driver's view)
www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=23844&v=t&m=243442
|
An 11 mile or 15-minute overtake is very offensive on a 2-lane carriageway, just rather inconsiderate on a 3-lane one.
Everyone knows truckers tailgate each other in the nearside lane. To cut in on one and brake heavily is criminal behaviour, not just careless or dangerous driving but a deliberate attempt to put people at risk.
To do it to another car is a bit dangerous and definitely deserves sanction. To do it to HGVs on a motorway is something like attempted murder. There's a real difference that the law could take into account, but apparently hasn't yet.
|
Whenever I see "elephant racing" on a two-lane dual carriageway, the HGVs involved are both running against their 56mph limiters... BUT the national speed limit applicable in that situation is 50mph. So, is the lorry that's being overtaken in the wrong for doing 56mph in the full knowledge a) he's speeding, and b) the overtaker can't go any faster?
By the by, if I'm in one of our newer 7.5 tonners with a 56mph limiter and a dual carriageway NSL of 60mph, where does that leave me when overtaking an HGV? In the way, usually... See the A14 from Huntingdon to Cambridge, or the A43 from the M1 to the M40 for proof.
|
The time difference between travelling at 60mph and 56mph over a distance of say 200 miles is just a few minutes, and so an overtake that clogs up a dual carriageway for many miles is hard to defend imo.
And as to the difference between 56.5mph and 56mph, it's just ludicrous!
|
I can appreciate that while that lorry is in your vision it appears to be 'just a few minutes' but given a 10 hour motorway drive from London to Edinburgh it amounts to a half an hour.
It's normal to do 470 miles in a day on such a run, and to be a half an hour short of your destination at the end of it, and not able to get there until the following morning has repercussions as Bellboy has noted, for everyone.
I'm not defending elephant racing, just trying to explain how the problem escalates over just one day.
The situation in the original link I provided happens regularly to lorry drivers but rarely with this sort of result.
More often the worst that will happen is the whole load is dislodged from the pallets from braking too hard, because the goods are an inch or so inside the area of the pallet they sit on.
This has a concertina effect and by the time you get to the back of the trailer the goods are part on the pallet in front of them....or 'shot' is the term we use.
They will not be accepted like that, and almost every haulage firm has the golden rule which is: You shot it, you pick ire-stackd restack it.
Saying a car pulled in front of me and braked hard won't get you out of it either and we've all spent mare-stacking restacking 26 pallets of jars of jam back onto the pallets without pay, in our own time through no fault of our own.
Another point is forward vision.
I like to see and assess the situation ahead of me as far into the distance as possible to give me the maximum time to take avoiding action or brake.
Sitting at a safe distance behind a lorry trailer seriously reduces my planning ahead time and is a situation to be avoided.
Equally a lorry taking ages to overtake me takes away my escape route to the right, so it's easier to ease off the accelerator just a fraction and let him pass.
The problem with doing this on the A14 in particular, is that the next one will pull out and so on, until you realise your delivery time is slipping away and the speedo and tach are telling you that you won't make it.
The tracker in the office is also telling them that information and the phone rings in the cab.
That tells them your speed, location, ETA etc and there follows a full and frank exchange as to why you think you're on a Sunday afternoon drive.
That's putting it politely:)
Just a view from inside the cab!
Pat
|
|
It strikes me that there is no way that you drivers can win. I would have been pleased if the lead lorry had not braked.
|
>> It strikes me that there is no way that you drivers can win. I would
>> have been pleased if the lead lorry had not braked.
>>
Maybe braking but not at an emergency rate would have been the least worse option.
|
Braking with a loaded lorry is always a two dimensional thing.
Weighing up the speed you're closing on the object in front, compared to the effects on the load in the trailer and trying to find a happy medium.
Pat
|
|
Maybe I should have been more specific, Shunting the emergency braking car may have been the least worse option.
Last edited by: Old Navy on Mon 7 Mar 11 at 08:22
|
|
He will probably get 6 months and be disqualified for 18 months.
|
It is easy, in a knee jerk reaction, to reach fro the black cap, but it does rather seem as though they all deservce on another.
John
|
If you were the judge... - Armel Coussine
