I have been devoting a lot of thought to replacing the faithful old Prelude with something more practical after 100k enjoyable miles and, up until now, I had drawn a blank because I always want to be a bit different. I thought about a Jazz but now my son owns one and although he is pleased with it he confirms it is, indeed, underpowered.
Then I thought 'well, how about another Jaguar - but an X-type estate? That'll enhance my reputation among the neighbours as the English eccentric'.
I have always slagged them off in the past (X-types, not the neighbours) for being a Jaguaren't but now I reluctantly accept that Ford made a pretty good job of re-engineering the XJS and the V12 - except for making me use a Fiesta ignition key - so I shouldn't be so sniffy. I don't think I could stomach a diesel, although my friend had a Freelander with the 2.2 engine that was pretty good, so maybe a V6 with 4-wheel-drive might tick a lot of boxes for who I am and the sometimes snowbound area where I live.
So, what are they really like? Were they put together properly? I read somewhere you shouldn't touch a late one because it will have been assembled by the soon-to-be-redundant Halewood workforce. Is the 2 litre V6 out of a Mazda? Are the bigger V6s very thirsty? Are they horrendously unreliable? I'm quite near a Jaguar main dealer here but don't have much faith in French technicians.
All views and prejudices welcome.
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Check out the car by car on HJ, the "whats bad" is a long page.
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Hmm. That's what I was afraid of.
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The V6s are Ford chain cam and have a good reputation for reliability though even the 3.0 is not overly torquey meaning that the diesel can feel livelier in normal motoring.
The 2.1 V6 is very crisp though particularly sluggish, I was driving a Vectra 2.5 in '02 and test drove a 2.1 X-Type and couldn't beleive how gutless it felt in comparison. I ended up with the 2.0 TDCi Mondeo which I subsequently bought from the company and only sold at 140k miles a few months ago.
I think they look great though the later facelift was not entirely succesfull, I would go for a mid production model, perhaps around '06 - '07.
The saloons are not as sharp as a Mondeo hatch or saloon because they use the Mondeo estate rear suspension layout so as to accomodate the 4wd, not an issue with the estate which is on a level playing field with the Mondeo estate albeit not so cavernous.
A 2.2 Diesel would be my first choice followed by a 3.0 V6.
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>> Check out the car by car on HJ, the "whats bad" is a long page.
I quite fancied a 3.0 X-type estate to replace the Focus. After reading that, I've gone off the idea :(
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I test drove a diesel auto saloon and was impressed.
It had some of the Jaguar 'waft' to it, certainly grace and pace, if not space.
I find it hard to believe they are as bad as HJ says.
A colleague's husband ran one for a few years without problems, and forum member Westpig speaks well of his wife's X-type.
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>> I find it hard to believe they are as bad as HJ says.
>>
>>
Well, it's neither cheap nor made in the Far East so he's bound to dislike it.
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I know 2 people in Germany who had X-Types as company cars a few years back. Both are Jaguar fans who would probably have a Series 3 or XJS on the drive were it not for family commitments. Neither are mechanically minded so don't know or care that the X-Type was Mondeo based. Both were disappointed with the X-Type and ended up going back to BMW at the end of the lease. Main complaints IIRC were the driving experience compared to BMW/ Mercedes, plasticky interior and bits falling off.
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I have a customer who had a 4wd 2.5 V6. Rarely bettered 25 mpg - to put that in context his previous V8 XK did 28 mpg, so it really is very thirsty.
He has just got a 2008 X-Type diesel auto, posh model. Rates it highly, says its a step up in every way over older model.
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I have owned one or two petrol motors. 2.5 170bhp 5 cylinder Volvo. 2.9 Granada V6. 150bhp. I completely fail to see how that engine (V8 XK) achieved that MPG. Not trying to be clever, but did they start it and if they did, did they venture above 30mph?
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We've had one for nearly 6 years now, bought as a demonstrator. 2.0 D SE estate with a load of extras
Plus......
Looks good (and different to much else); does the leather/wood bit well; well equipped; more space in the load area than the rival premium brands; comfy; reliable; British (ish); handles better than you'd think
Minus.....
Door locks can muck you about, if so they need changing (about £200 with a Jag indie); same with rear door (5th door) glass opener; diesel sounds like a Transit; not a lot else really.
I'd have no hesitation in recommending one and am disappointed they've stopped making them....and as for all that Jag/Ford rubbish...forget it. 18% shared parts with the Mondeo (which is a good car anyway) and it doesn't stop a Bentley buyer sharing Audi parts does it?
Last edited by: Westpig on Sat 26 Feb 11 at 12:33
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No indeed, I take the point.
The door locks on the XJS are a source of constant wonderment to me, as well. And just reading the security system manual puts me off using it.
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>>diesel sounds like a Transit;
Next door neighbour has one, a black estate - nice looking car if a bit hearse-like in that colour. I'm sure it's noisier than a PD diesel at idle though, sounds like it's not running right.
I would avoid the V6 unless your pockets are deep. I have an X type buyers guide at home, and overall the diesel is the preferred version. "To do a spark plug change on a V6 requires removal of the inlet manifold. The waterpump is driven by a small belt running off the camshaft, which is often missed when servicing the car. Together with a pump that is prone to leakage and a coolant tank that can split, they can cause an expensive overheat if ignored".
I liked this little titbit though concerning the four wheel drive model. " The big problem here is not just the propensity of the transfer case seal to leak away it's precious oil, but also the fact that the filler plug for said case is just about impossible to reach without dropping the entire subframe and much of the exhaust. As a result the oil level is never checked, the case runs dry, and everything grinds - literally - to a halt. Fortunately Jaguar has now stated it is acceptable to raise the left side of the car only and top up the oil via the drain plug - it remains to be seen how many garages take the time to do this however."
Exhausts - "entire rear section is fitted as a complete unit on four wheel drive models and is impossible to remove once rear suspension is in place, so it must be physically cut in half and replaced by two separate components - not cheap".
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>>Next door neighbour has one, a black estate - nice looking car if a bit hearse-like in that colour. I'm sure it's noisier than a PD diesel at idle though, sounds like it's not running right.
>>
Can't be running right to be noisier than a PD diesel ...
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Mike, I have owned 3 Xtypes, one petrol & two diesels. The 2.2d was the best, loads of grunt and so smooth and quiet. Jaguar remapped the ford engine for the jaguar with multiple stage injection to reduce the engine knock and did a fantastic job. the 2.0d is noiser.
All three of mine were perfect, with one boot solonoid required and about 3 headlamp bulbs. Not bad as i must of covered just under 200000 miles between them
I never suffered any rattles or key lock failures or niggles at all. I have to say i would of had one now if it wasn't for the dealerships that are so up themselves !
The guy that bought my 2.2d owned a 3.0ltr 4wd model and when he drove the 2.2d he said it was so much quieter than the petrol due to lower revs and the 3.0 growling under revs. He also recknoned there was very little difference in perfomance , in fact he reckoned that the 2.2 had massive midrange grunt ,so he gladly handed over the cash.
I used several dealers and to be honest they were all as bad which was a shame. I used to get ribbed about it being a mondeo but at least it was well tried and tested and having seen a mondeo 2.2 notch up 270000 miles before its first MOT convinced me there not all bad.
I always ran mine on the manufactures recommended fuel and oil and never had any EGR or turbo or injector issues and I also towed a 1600kg caravan all round spain and france few years running and never suffered any clutch issues iether
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I've always liked the X-Type estate although I've never had one. I suppose though now if I were in the market for a medium / large lugger I'd default to the new Mondeo estate predictably enough.
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Hmmmm again. Are there 2.2 oilers with an autobox? Guess not. My pal's Freelander had a six speed manual with that engine and when I drove it there was just too much gearchanging for what was supposed to be a motor with a lot of grunt. It seemed to run out of steam at very low revs - but then, I'm used to VTEC.
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>> grunt. It seemed to run out of steam at very low revs - but then,
>> I'm used to VTEC.
That has no steam at very low revs.
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...Are there 2.2 oilers with an autobox? Guess not...
I fairly sure the diesel X-type auto I tested in 2009 was a 2.2.
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>> The 2.2d was the best, loads of grunt and so smooth and quiet. Jaguar remapped the ford engine for the jaguar with multiple stage injection to reduce the engine knock and did a fantastic job. the 2.0d is noiser.>>
I think they vary a little, its not a 2.0 v 2.2 issue, my 2.0 TDCi Mondeo was still probably the most refined four cyl diesel I have driven or been a passenger in, even at 140k miles, it was a particularly good one I guess, also I reckon the Euro 3 ones with vacuum operated variable vane may be on balance a little more refined than the Euro 4 variants.
They all have multiple stage injection, one of the key benefits of CR over PD is the ability to inject anywhere in the cycle because the rail is always pressurised.
>> I used several dealers and to be honest they were all as bad which was a shame. >>
Many X-Type diesel users have used Ford dealers, greater expertise on the engines plus a little cheaper too I guess.
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>> Exhausts - "entire rear section is fitted as a complete unit on four wheel drive
>> models and is impossible to remove once rear suspension is in place, so it must
>> be physically cut in half and replaced by two separate components - not cheap".
That applies to a lot of cars when the original system fails. Certainly on the mk4 Golf they provide stamps on the pipe to show you where you need to cut. You can't remove the factory exhaust without dropping the rear suspension. I've read similar in workshop manuals for many cars.
A colleague has had 55 reg 2.0d estate from new. It's sprung a few big bills on him over the years. He's had the usual Ford diesel injector calibration issues a couple of times, the well documented locking problems, and an alternator / charging fault which cost a small fortune to diagnose and correct. He is fairly happy with it.
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Ah yes, I discover there has been a diesel auto option with the 2.2 for the past couple of years.
Maybe I conform with the 'mature driver' image these days, but 9.9 seconds 0-60 and an alleged 123mph would be plenty fast enough for me.
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...but 9.9 seconds 0-60 and an alleged 123mph would be plenty fast enough for me...
It was fast enough for me, and the drive had that luxury car feel which I don't think you get in a Ford or most other mass-produced cars.
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Mike
The 2.2 Freelander engine is not the same as the jaguar engine !The block is the same but the head is different. I now have a freelander2 2.2 and mine is an Auto which I have to say is far better than driving the manual one. the auto really compliments the car and strangley the auto is quicker 0-60 than the manual. the only downside is the thirst of an auto compared to a manual. I had manual one for a week and averaged 42.mpg overall where as my auto hangs around 33 overall.
The auto jaguar is detuned for the auto box, no where near the grunt of a 2.2 manual. I had a demo auto one for a week and after having the manual 2.2 there was a huge difference in mid range grunt. The 2.2 manual is 400nm tourque at 1900rpm where as the auto is only 320 nm guess they turned the wick down as the auto box wasn't strong enough to take the tourque. That said it drove very well indeed.
I can also asure you that the mapping on the 2.2 is different to the Mondeo as i know who actually developed it for jaguar and yes they do all have multistage injection but the jaguar has more and it does make it very refined.
having also had a petrol and 2.od diesel and 2.2d plus I have owned several 2.0tdci fords I can assure you the 2.2 is soooo refined compared with the rest!and the best on fuel by far. If they still made them and the dealerships were improved i would have another. Great looking car although I have to say I had the saloons.
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...guess they turned the wick down as the auto box wasn't strong enough to take the tourque...
I read that somewhere when I was considering one.
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>> The 2.2 Freelander engine is not the same as the jaguar engine !The block is the same but the head is different. >>
I stand to be corrected though the Freelander uses a version of the belt cam Ford/PSA engine as used in the Mondeo IV etc, a totally different engine to the chain cam Mondeo III / X-Type unit.
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Many thanks all - this is really interesting and helpful. It genuinely hadn't occurred to me that I could use a Ford dealer! We went to look at a saloon yesterday and it got the thumbs up from swmbo - I don't think it will be easy to find an estate round here though. However, we have to do a Blighty Run in March so will look then.
Oh, and Z - the 2.2 vtec pulls like a train at low revs, then goes like a scalded cat at over 5,200. That's why they are so darned brilliant.
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>> Oh, and Z - the 2.2 vtec pulls like a train at low revs, then
>> goes like a scalded cat at over 5,200. That's why they are so darned brilliant.
Yes, it's a common misconception that all VTEC engines are no torque and all revs, the bigger versions are good at all speeds, smooth, with bombproof reliability even at high miles.
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>> >> Oh, and Z - the 2.2 vtec pulls like a train at low revs, then goes like a scalded cat at over 5,200. That's why they are so darned brilliant.
>>
>> Yes, it's a common misconception that all VTEC engines are no torque and all revs,
>> the bigger versions are good at all speeds, >>
>>
The 2.0 in the Civic Type-R really needs some revs before it goes.
Also while I am sure the 2.2 is a flexible n/a petrol engine a 2.0d X-Type would stomp all over it at low rpm yet alone a 2.2d.
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Well, yes, but oilers do, don't they?
I would buy petrol for preference but might be overtaken by events at last and submit to diesel.
What a shame you can't buy a small, sporting estate any more - like the Honda Aerodeck or Lancia HPE, both of which I have owned happily.
What I'd like of course is a Lynx Eventer, so I'd really have a matched pair. But there are only two in France, I understand, and it wouldn't be practical...
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>> What a shame you can't buy a small, sporting estate any more - like the
BMW 330i Estate- Fast, reliable, tough, silky smooth. Or come to think of it the 330D. But I have in inkling that they would be too common for you :)
Volvo V50 T5 - A bit of a sleeper - one went past me at a rate of knots, but only because I goaded him by going round a roundabout sharpish with us in each lane and he taught me a lesson by blasting out of the exit onto a dual carriageway.
You're right though, there seems to be a lack of small, cooking estates. The only alternative seems to be to spend a squillion on something extreme like an Audi RS4. I wonder if a Ford Focus Estate ST would have sold, or a Vauxhall Astra estate VXR. Someone, somewhere has probably done the conversion :)
It's all academic anyhow in this current climate with ever rising fuel prices.
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I wonder if a Ford Focus Estate ST would have sold...
Doubt it. The go-faster body kit wouldn't have left enough panel room for the Photocopier Maintenance stickers.
};---)
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>> I wonder if a Ford Focus Estate ST would have sold...
>>
>> Doubt it. The go-faster body kit wouldn't have left enough panel room for the Photocopier
>> Maintenance stickers.
>> };---)
You could get the mk1 Focus estate in hot-ish ST170 form; don't know how well it sold.
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If you check out any car on this or any other moan website you will get a long list , if you look after a car , choose wisely you should be fine but like any other man made machine there will be issues at one time or another , i have had three x-types over the years, two saloons and an estate , i have had two three litre and a 2.2 , to say the diesel is faster is patently wrong as the v6 will do 0-60 in under seven seconds and is faster on kickdown 40-80 than the diesel , i felt there was llittle difference in smoothness but i preferred the v6 by a very small margin , it was cheaper to service as well , i currently have a jeep but if th ex-type was still in production who knows , anyway i enjoyed mine had very little trouble in fact apart from keeping the locks lubed i did little to them , had them serviced by jaguar and the dealer was first class , if you had problems with a dealer e-mail jaguar as they would be very interested to know, i despair when i hear people slagging cars and saying look on this website etc , look on any of these for any car and there will be grief as it is moaners paradise , i doubt they service their cars and then moan when it goes wrong , my most unreliable cars were both vag group , a passat that went through turbos and a skoda superb that flooded the passenger side and caused no end of grief and both are common problems on moaners paradise yet vag deny any issues , says it all really
Last edited by: muirtons on Sun 6 Apr 14 at 11:22
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>> If you check out any car on this or any other moan website
Hi muirtons, and welcome to the site :)
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Yeah, it is quite depressing when folk only post to moan. Good to have such a cheery new contributor with a positive outlook on things...
;-)
( actually it's just quite good to have a new contributor at all really )
Welcome !
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>> Good to have such a cheery new contributor with a positive outlook on things...
>>
>> ;-)
You can say that again ;-)
Welcome.
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>> i enjoyed mine
>> had very little trouble in fact apart from keeping the locks lubed i did little
>> to them , had them serviced by jaguar and the dealer was first class ,
>> if you had problems with a dealer e-mail jaguar as they would be very interested
>> to know, i despair when i hear people slagging cars and saying look on this
>> website etc , look on any of these for any car and there will be
>> grief as it is moaners paradise , i doubt they service their cars and then
>> moan when it goes wrong , my most unreliable cars were both vag group ,
>> a passat that went through turbos and a skoda superb that flooded the passenger side
>> and caused no end of grief and both are common problems on moaners paradise yet
>> vag deny any issues , says it all really
>>
Good to hear someone who did enjoy their car the service they received from the manufacturer approved service network.
I did as you suggested with a manufacturer, both the National representative and the corporate headquarters as well as the dealer. I had a bill for over 1000€ for the replacement of the rear discs, pads and handbrake shoes. The issue was the car was over 8 years old and the dealer sent the car out onto the road with the handbrake not working on one side of the car. Manufacturer not interested and dealer a waste of time.
Have you ever noticed how the customer satisfaction surveys never test the water outside the warranty period. It would make very interesting reading to see the views of owners of vehicles which are 4, 5 and 6 years old still serviced in the manufacturer approved network workshops. When the real maintenance starts and the oil and a few filters, checks and tyre kicking ends.
It would then be interesting to see how KIA and Hyundai did in comparison with where they are in the table when all cars are measured up to 3 years.
Last edited by: gmac on Sun 6 Apr 14 at 12:15
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"It would then be interesting to see how KIA and Hyundai did in comparison with where they are in the table when all cars are measured up to 3 years."
Indeed. What's also interesting is to consider what sells best in countries where they tend to keep cars longer, the law holds manufacturers more to account, or even your survival can depend on the car you drive.
Put it this way, Hyundai, Toyota and Honda trade places as the best-selling car in the US, Australia doesn't have "Land Rover only" roads and aid agencies don't mandate that their staff only drive Land Cruisers, Hiluxes or Patrols without reason.
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Mike,
If you're still thinking of a petrol X-type, would you consider a Subaru or, indeed, Honda CRV? As far as I recall both marques have agents near Limoges - and if you're happy with the potential running cost of V6 x-type, either should prove more reliable.
I do recall seeing a reasonable number of Foresters and Outbacks in France, though more often further south around the pine forests beyond Bordeaux. I guess if you want 4x4 but don't need a full-size jeep, they're still cheaper to run than (say) a Land Cruiser even in petrol form.
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Good value diesel X-type estates keep popping up in my search for an Alfa estate and I do keep getting slight childhood pangs back to the days when old style wood and leather was very familiar to me. However, and I accept car choice is very personal, I just don't feel old enough to run one yet.
Mrs F has decreed we are not even old enough to have a Volvo estate yet!
Last edited by: Fenlander on Mon 7 Apr 14 at 10:39
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I've had the Accord diesel more than a year now and, I suppose, got used to it. I still hate the noise it makes and dislike the deceiving way it delivers its 'power'. Just this morning I needed to nip past a big artic quite quickly and cursed as the torque fell off the usual cliff just over 4k rpm, even though I'd dropped two gears.
It is, however, comfortable, the auto transmission is the best I've ever had, it's been reliable over 26,000kms and only cost a service and a couple of tyres. If only it was enjoyable to drive...
I did say I'd keep it year, then take the drop and find something else but just now I can't really be bothered. Nothing enthuses me. I've decided an X-type, as with almost everything else that appeals a bit, is just too big to be bothered with these days. Having said that, I haven't seen one around here for ages.
The only thing that might be interesting would be a Jazz with the new 1.6 diesel that's guaranteed for a million miles but that's academic, as I gather there are no plans for one and we are considering our future in France anyway, so diesel is maybe of even less interest than usual.
Ho hum.
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>> However, and I accept car choice is
>> very personal, I just don't feel old enough to run one yet.
My missus was 33 when I persuaded her to have one (me 42)..she loved it from the word go and still loves it. She won't let me sell it until we can afford an XF Sportbrake, so we'll be keeping it a while yet.
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I get that. Not specifically your car as such but what I do get is when you decide on / stumble upon a car which just does everything you want a car to do and does it well it's quite an effort to change it for something which might disappoint in some way.
Rather an old good fiddle than a new bad one.
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>>>My missus was 33 when I persuaded her to have one (me 42)..she loved it from the word go..
Yep fully understand and not knocking it.
Mrs F's 2nd car was a Triumph 2000 and by age 20 we were both running P6 3500 Rovers. Perhaps it's as we are now at an age... if judged by the number... where X-type cars might suit we are kicking against the trend.
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Quite right, Humph. Can't beat a good old fiddle.
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Aren't they like Mondeos with more sound deadening and different trim?
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...and rubbish headlights AC...
Take cover !!!!
Incoming !!!!
;-))))
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>> ...and rubbish headlights AC...
I'd agree with that.
Changed the bulbs to better after market ones and adjusted them up as high as is legally possible..and they're fine now.
My S Type ones are much better though.
Best lights I've ever had was on a Rover SD1. Everything else was truly dreadful though.
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>> Best lights I've ever had was on a Rover SD1.
Best I can remember were on the VW411. It had four equal sized round projectors, the outer pair for dip and the inner pair for main beam. The relays could give trouble sometimes.
A load in the front boot made a lot of difference though, and one had to adjust the light level. I took to carrying a hundredweight of sand in there, inefficient but then the car was a bit inefficient in an engaging German way.
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I suppose it's churlish to mention xenons with adaptive main beam assist is it? Not just dipped or high beam but a self adjusting variable pitch and intensity beam which takes into account ambient light, vehicle speed, oncoming vehicles, direction of steering input etc.
Anyway, they're jolly good.
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>>Anyway, they're jolly good.
Do you not find oncoming drivers are flashing their lights to get you to dip them though? I find the lights on most new Mercs uncomfortably bright tbf.
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No, it's a rural area. They just tend to touch their forelocks in greeting and mutter ' Evenin' Squire ' before presumably returning to their cottages. Well, at least I think that's what they're doing. Most seem anyway to be gesturing with one hand to their foreheads and muttering something at least. One just assumes the rest of course...
;-)
Last edited by: Runfer D'Hills on Mon 7 Apr 14 at 21:46
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A load in the front boot made a lot of difference though...
Oh dear, AC, that one sounds like it's straight from Roger's Profanisaurus, as in
Honestly, ladies, I'd love to get out and help but I've got a load in the front boot.
Ahem. Xenons, yes. Brilliant - geddit? Mine are still on the 'flat' setting from last summer's continental trip, because they still illuminate the verge just fine that way, and it gives drivers approaching on the port bow a bit of a break.
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>> Aren't they like Mondeos with more sound deadening and different trim?
>>
**** ***
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Didn't take long did it?
;-)
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>> Didn't take long did it?
Less than a minute
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>> Mrs F's 2nd car was a Triumph 2000
She'd like mine then....
....1968 Triumph 2000 mk1 auto, deep maroon red, with beige leather and loads of wood (more than some other 2000's, where the radio would normally be is a wooden compartment). Great big thick beige carpets.
A right head turner, esp in that colour, although obviously I am biased.
Straight six sounds nice as well.
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Jaguar X-Type Estate - What are they really like? - Zero
