Motoring Discussion > Using own vehicle to do job	Miscellaneous
Thread Author: Diamond	Replies: 62

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:00   Using own vehicle to do job - Diamond

Can an employer force you to use your own car for business use, even though he will pay you mileage allowance? Company you work for is bought by new owner, the company vehicle you were driving has to be returned to the leasing company and in the meantime your new boss asks you to use your own car for delivery work. He says he 'will be getting a company vehicle soon', which could mean a couple of weeks/months/never. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:03   Using own vehicle to do job - RattleandSmoke

This is probably one for a contract law lawyer. Regardless or if he can or not if you do use your own car make sure it is covered for business use on your insurance policy. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:04   Using own vehicle to do job - Alastairw

He can't make you. If you go ahead, make sure your insurance covers you for business use in connection with employment (or somesuch wording). Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:09   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

you need to look at your contracts of employment if nothing there and you dont want to use your car then if me i would see it as constructive dismissal im not a union man but this may be the time to seek their help if they are a sensible union Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:11   Using own vehicle to do job - Stuu

Dont think they can make you no. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:15   Using own vehicle to do job - movilogo

It depends on company. Check your contract. Usually most big firms have clearly defined policies. No employer can force you to use your own car. Not everyone is supposed to have driving license/car. So in theory you could always ask to travel by public transport. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:12   Using own vehicle to do job - Dave_

I don't see a problem, as long as you're reimbursed for the cost of fuel/insurance/wear and tear at a reasonable rate. I did a few courier jobs some years ago in my own car under the firm's insurance (wording: "Any vehicle being used in connection with the policyholder's business" - they ran cars, vans and 7.5ts) - the jobs were split 60/40 in my favour and were terminating near places I wanted to go for personal purposes. Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Wed 23 Feb 11 at 22:12 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:13   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

we dont all have ford escorts Dave_TD {P} ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:13   Using own vehicle to do job - Dave_

Pfft, that was in my Carina E! Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:14   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

>> Pfft, that was in my Carina E! >> >>>>>> paff thought your earlier car was a datsun churry ;-) Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:15   Using own vehicle to do job - Dave_

I've sunk low before, but not that low. ;-) *cough*Allegro*cough* Reply to this message | Report message       1

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:12   Using own vehicle to do job - Diamond

Yes, I understand about the insurance thing. However the wear, tear and mileage on the car and the greater risks of accidents are concerning me. The job is delivering so a vehicle must be used. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:20   Using own vehicle to do job - Lygonos

What Bellboy says: unless your original contract of employment states you must use your own car, you cannot be forced. Any attempt vs. your refusal would indeed be grounds for constructive dismissal if it came to it. If you've been working less than a year, however, you could be given the boot with no reason (assuming English Law is same as Scots Law re. employment rights). Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:25   Using own vehicle to do job - Dave_

But is using your own car so bad? Plenty of trades ask/expect staff to provide their own tools to do the job where necessary. In the current climate, an employee who's prepared to go out of their way for the good of the business would be looked upon more kindly if things get tough, surely... On a smaller scale, we were told we would no longer be paid through break times about three years ago - we had routinely used the statutory breaks to get on with strapping down loads/ sorting out paperwork and the tacit expectation was that this would continue in order that the business might better weather the turbulence in the financial climate. Last edited by: Dave_TD {P} on Wed 23 Feb 11 at 22:28 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 09:09   Using own vehicle to do job - Zero

>> What Bellboy says: unless your original contract of employment states you must use your own >> car, you cannot be forced. Yup, if its not in your contract of employment he cant make you do it. >> >> Any attempt vs. your refusal would indeed be grounds for constructive dismissal if it came >> to it. Yes it would. >> If you've been working less than a year, however, you could be given the boot >> with no reason (assuming English Law is same as Scots Law re. employment rights). No its not, Its 6 months. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 18:24   Using own vehicle to do job - Mapmaker

>> >> If you've been working less than a year, however, you could be given the >> boot >> >> with no reason (assuming English Law is same as Scots Law re. employment rights). >> >> No its not, Its 6 months. No it's not, it's 12 months. Eligibility to complain to a tribunal Employees can usually claim unfair dismissal only if they have worked for you for at least one year. tinyurl.com/62febwk - links to www.businesslink.gov.uk Last edited by: VxFan on Thu 24 Feb 11 at 21:04 Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 20:06   Using own vehicle to do job - Zero

Must have changed then. AH - Most employers give you a trial of 6 months. Anyway ZERO IS WRONG Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 20:25   Using own vehicle to do job - CGNorwich

"ZERO IS WRONG" My world has turned upside down - there is no longer any certainty in the world. What is to become of us? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 20:36   Using own vehicle to do job - Zero

Simply a Trial of your faith my son. Go forth a spread the word, there is only one true messiah. Donations to The Good Church of our Lord Zero Spartanburg South Carolina Bank of Zurich account # 666 Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:31   Using own vehicle to do job - Bill Payer

>> He can't make you. If you go ahead, make sure your insurance covers you for >> business use in connection with employment (or somesuch wording). >> ...for this situation it needs cover for carrying goods and making deliveries - that's a completely different kettle of fish to the normal level of "business use". Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:42   Using own vehicle to do job - WillDeBeest

Agreed, BP. Most policies these days allow for so-called Class 1 business use, which one of mine defined as travelling 'to or from a pre-arranged appointment' (as if there were any other kind of appointment.) It covers the driving to meetings and customers that I do, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't cover deliveries or 'commercial travelling'. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 22:59   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

renewed my insurance today and they now even ask how many cars you sell a year talk about bean counters dotting t's... Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 23:01   Using own vehicle to do job - bathtub tom

>>renewed my insurance today Did mine as well, they wanted £148 - sheesh! It was £98 last year. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 23:06   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

>> >>renewed my insurance today >> >> Did mine as well, they wanted £148 - sheesh! It was £98 last year. >> >>>>> mine gone down i bin a gud buoy Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 23:00   Using own vehicle to do job - bathtub tom

In a previous life, when I used to work, we were paid a mileage rate (quite a generous one I thought) for travelling to other sites. Some thought it insufficient and refused to use their cars - one argument was it didn't cover the depreciation of the car and they couldn't see how stupid that was. The company made an arrangement with a car hire firm and all paid use of private cars stopped. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 23:07   Using own vehicle to do job - Diamond

Thanks WillDeBeest and Bill Payer - I think you've hit the nail on the head. I'm now in a better position if he tries it on with me. I would like to be helpful but this is an imposition as far as I'm concerned. Reply to this message | Report message

Wed 23 Feb 11 23:11   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

i thought you said inqusition.................... roll monty python................................................................ .. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 08:28   Using own vehicle to do job - jc2

I wondered at first why our company's milage figure was lower than others-I asked and was told it was because we were covered by the company's insurance(as long as we had prior permission)-we did not have to add business use to our own. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 10:12   Using own vehicle to do job - bathtub tom

I'd want to see proof before I used my car on those terms. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 10:12   Using own vehicle to do job - Bromptonaut

Delivery work may require specific cover. I have business use for my own work (manager in a govt dept) but specifically excludes doing deliveries. If I ws leafleting in a voluntary capacity I'd need to check if that was covered. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 10:32   Using own vehicle to do job - John Eva

My advise would be to advise them of the Duty of Care issues with grey fleets, I am only the IT guy at a vehicle leasing company so dont hold me to this just going of what I have picked up here and there. My job is to build websites promote them and do general it work. But from what I know they need to be very careful, if they dont have proceedures in place to check your vehicles are in good working order (Road Legal), licences have been checked ect ect. If an accident happens and these proceedures are not in place and somebody dies directors can actually be sent to prison. This website may have some useful infommation for you. www.fleetnews.co.uk/fleet-management/ Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 10:41   Using own vehicle to do job - Iffy

...If an accident happens and these proceedures are not in place and somebody dies directors can actually be sent to prison... About two years ago my employers began rigorous checking of licences and insurance for those who use their own car. I knew it was self-interest, but didn't realise the self-interest lay in avoiding a spell in pokey. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 10:50   Using own vehicle to do job - Bill Payer

>> I knew it was self-interest, but didn't realise the self-interest lay in avoiding a spell >> in pokey. >> It's just scare-stories by the fleet industry - obviously people using their own cars is bad news for them. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 10:59   Using own vehicle to do job - John Eva

No people have really gone to prison for this, its not just a scare-story, also very large fines are quite common. Its not that you are not able to use private vehicles for busines use, simpley that the company has to have proceedures in place to check licenses, insurance and make sure vehicles are road legal condition. Grey fleet are fine with the fleet industry just companys need to put in extra proceedures in place to cover themself. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 17:46   Using own vehicle to do job - Bill Payer

>> No people have really gone to prison for this, its not just a scare-story, also >> very large fines are quite common. "quite common"? I don't think so. Apart from Gary Hart, can you find any links to company owners, directors or fleet managers etc who have been jailed? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 17:58   Using own vehicle to do job - Pat

I can confirm what John Eva is saying. In the haulage industry the ability to be charged with corporate manslaughter has changed the way a lot of firms are run over the last few years. Better and more accurate records are kept on drivers licences and the hours worked. TM's have to ensure that agency drivers have not done a shift for another firm before coming to start for them, licences are checked six monthly and photostat copies taken, among a raft of other checks. Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 10:52   Using own vehicle to do job - John Eva

Yeah can get done for corprate manslaughter or something if an accident occurs and someone dies. We have some info on our fleet management website about duty of care but did not want to post a link to our site as I did not want to be seen as self promoting. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 11:00   Using own vehicle to do job - Falkirk Bairn

Years ago a former colleague was caught drunk driving in his own car. 6 months later he was sacked on the spot for still driving the co. car - no licence = no insurance and left the company/directors open to being sued in the event of the accident. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 11:03   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

www.justice.gov.uk/guidance/docs/guidetomanslaughterhomicide07.pdf Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 22:36   Using own vehicle to do job - Bill Payer

>> Yeah can get done for corprate manslaughter or something if an accident occurs and >> someone dies. >> It's never actually happened though. >> We have some info on our fleet management website about duty of care but did >> not want to post a link to our site as I did not want to >> be seen as self promoting. >> It's not much better to be a vested interest posting scare stories. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 04:26   Using own vehicle to do job - Pat

www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/yourbusiness/8330905/History-of-corporate-manslaughter-five-key-cases.html Pat Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 09:24   Using own vehicle to do job - John Eva

Belive what you like, you have been given proof of the law you have been showen examples of cases and yet you still accuse me of making up scare storys. As your obviously just looking to make troule in this tread instead of offering advise for the OP, I am going to just leave it as this thank you for you rude behaviour and accusations, good day. Reply to this message | Report message       6

Fri 25 Feb 11 12:53   Using own vehicle to do job - Bromptonaut

>> It's never actually happened though. But we know it might happen. The fact that the prosecution agencies seem, so far, incapable of making a case stick doesn't mean there is no realistic prospect of it hapening. I'm inclined to think some of the reactions to driving at work risks are overkill & agencies such as John's (and for that matter ROSPA) have made good business out of the problem. But plannig for business risks by waiting for them to happen is the height of folly. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 11:35   Using own vehicle to do job - BiggerBadderDave

"About two years ago my employers..." Grace Brothers. Are they still trading? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 11:37   Using own vehicle to do job - Iffy

...Grace Brothers. Are they still trading?... Yes, and we're all doing very well. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 24 Feb 11 11:42   Using own vehicle to do job - Bromptonaut

>> About two years ago my employers began rigorous checking of licences and insurance Mine did the same as part of a detailed 'Driving at Work' policy. One of the authors is a mate from a previous job. She tells me that licence checks uncovered several cases of abuse including 'spare' clean licences and numerous address mismatches. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 17:35   Using own vehicle to do job - Dave

Tell them you aint got your own vehicle. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 18:00   Using own vehicle to do job - Zero

Yeah Whats he gonna do then? Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 18:03   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

>> Yeah >> >> Whats he gonna do then? >> >>>>> obvious go ghost hunting Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 18:25   Using own vehicle to do job - Mapmaker

If you say "no", Diamond, expect to be at the back of the queue for promotion and at the front for redundancy the moment they're laying people off. Otherwise, no he cannot force you. But do you really hate your employer that much? Do you really want him to lose contracts? I wouldn't want you working for me. I suggest you go and look for another job. Reply to this message | Report message       3

Thu 24 Feb 11 18:37   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

I wouldn't want you working for me. I suggest you go and look for another job. >>>>>>>>> what an intransigent attitude guess you wear the bobble hat when your giving mouldy oranges out at xmas too Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 19:05   Using own vehicle to do job - Iffy

...But do you really hate your employer that much? Do you really want him to lose contracts?... I have long been surprised at how some workers are prepared to lock horns with their employer. They usually have one thing in common, they are in public service jobs where the appetite - and budget - for grievance procedures and meetings is limitless. Concentrating on internal 'issues' appears preferable to getting the job done. The OP has been put in an awkward position, which hopefully he can negotiate a way out of. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 10:43   Using own vehicle to do job - teabelly

>> ...But do you really hate your employer that much? Do you really want him to >> lose contracts?... >> >> I have long been surprised at how some workers are prepared to lock horns with >> their employer. >> >> They usually have one thing in common, they are in public service jobs where the >> appetite - and budget - for grievance procedures and meetings is limitless. >> >> Concentrating on internal 'issues' appears preferable to getting the job done. >> >> The OP has been put in an awkward position, which hopefully he can negotiate a >> way out of. >> >> >> If the company could lost contracts due to it relying on an employee using their vehicle rather than them hiring appropriate ones the boss is clearly incompetent. Van hire is simple and this boss could easily obtain vehicles easily while waiting to arrange a company one. Perhaps a cut in his fat salary would cover the short fall. Reply to this message | Report message       1

Thu 24 Feb 11 22:48   Using own vehicle to do job - Zero

Would I want to work for an employer that makes business plans by chopping the company fleet and assuming the workers are happy to use their own transport? I would be looking for another job cos I get the feeling this one aint gonna last long. Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 22:54   Using own vehicle to do job - Lygonos

What zed sed Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 23:23   Using own vehicle to do job - Bellboy

for the retired out there i have a message there arent jobs available most jobs at the moment are nod wink ones so diamond has a valid question and we dont even know what his car is or his driving experiance for the record my son in law works for a right two bit company that holds data for large plc's and the govt,he is expected to stay with his load until delivered even if it means a 400 mile road trip he cannot leave his vehicle,ive told him this is breaking so many laws that he should stand and be counted,his response is he will be fired win at tribunal like all previous colleagues and then find himself unemployable as i said further up im not a union man never have been ,but talking to a long standing repeat customer of mine today who stands to lose her job because she took time off (she was very poorly) and did everything by the book and she works for the govt i dread to think how diamond stands in a company fresh taken over and being demanded to do things probably beyond his comprehension Reply to this message | Report message

Thu 24 Feb 11 23:24   Using own vehicle to do job - rtj70

If the company needs vehicles to function and got rid of them to save money - I too would be looking for alternative employment. In the meantime, bills need paying so as long as I had a suitable car and insurance for business use was not a problem then I'd do that. Assume it's at around 40p/mile? Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 12:25   Using own vehicle to do job - Mapmaker

I have a friend who is a surgeon. He works from 9 to 5 (or whatever) in two hospitals, and in the morning he drives to whichever hospital he is needed at. He has a colleague who similarly works in the two hospitals. The colleague however enforces the terms of his contract which are that he is required only to work at the one hospital, to which he drives. Having arrived there he proceeds to get public transport to the other hospital where he arrives at 10.30, and leaves it at 3.30 in order to be back at the hospital where he is employed for 5pm in order to drive home. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 13:39   Using own vehicle to do job - commerdriver

If there are no mitigating circumstances we don't know, his colleague sounds like a prime candidate for NHS cuts, what an attitude. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 13:42   Using own vehicle to do job - Iffy

...what an attitude... He's a consultant, he can do what he likes. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 13:48   Using own vehicle to do job - commerdriver

He still has a boss somewhere who might like to volunteer him to be cut, he is being paid for his surgical expertise to be used not to sit on a bus/train doing his crossword. Would like to know the whole story before i go all D**ly M**l on it :-) Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 13:59   Using own vehicle to do job - Focusless

Mrs F works in an NHS hospital and shares operating theatres with consultants; she's told me in the past that they don't appear to have a 'boss'. There are good ones and bad ones according to her, as in most jobs. Reply to this message | Report message

Fri 25 Feb 11 14:03   Using own vehicle to do job - Iffy

... i go all D**ly M**l on it :-)... I surprised a c4p thread lasted this long without mention of Britain's finest newspaper. Speaking of which, they've got some pics today of Radio1 DJ Jo Whiley looking rather delectable in a mid-40s sort of way. I bet no one would moan about a Mail link to that page. Reply to this message | Report message